ATT: Writers - Proposed FR Writers' Group

[Glitch Girl]

Freedom Reborn has a lot of good writers.  I know because I've seen their work posted here over the years.  It's something that I personally think should be encouraged. But writing can be hard:  lack of time, inspiration, audience, energy, etc can make the whole process hard to stick with...

Wouldn't it be nice to have a bit of a support system?

That's what I'm proposing here.  With the new year about to start, I'd like to set up a Freedom Reborn Writers' Group, a group open to all members and encourage regular posting and feedback of other writers' works probably primarily headquartered in the Fan Fiction secton of the forum.

Of course, there would be some guidelines.  Here's a few that I had in mind:

- Members would  post at least piece per month of their own original work.  These need not be complete pieces (ie: you can post an unfinished scene), but anything posted is open to critique.

-Members are also encouraged to comment on posted work in a timely manner. Comments should not be mean spirited but can offer constructive advice and criticism.

- Posted work allowed includes short story, essay, poetry, film or comic book script, etc.  Any genre (within reason) is allowed including non-fiction, as long as the characters are either original or public domain. Posted works should conform with the FR Posting Guidelines for content. 

- Informal Writing Challenges can be posted at any time and do not necessarily need to have a deadline and can stay as long term writing exercises.  The challenge creator is highly encouraged to participate in their own challenge as well.

Obviously these guidelines are only a first draft, and a very rough one at best.  I would like to now open the floor to anyone who might be interested and to hear what you all think.  If this is to happen, I would like to officially start it on New Year's Day in keeping with the idea of resolving to write more in the coming year.

[Shaboba]

I would definitely be into this.

[Reepicheep]

I could definitely be up for this, yeah. I need a reason to practice writing again.

[Mr. Hamrick]

definitely up for it.  definitely could use the help.

most of what I am working is film script though.  Hope that will not be a problem.

[BlueBard]

I'm in.  My participation will probably be light until March or so, but a writer's group is a good idea.

To get yourself in the right frame of mind, you might follow the Writing Excuses podcast at http://www.writingexcuses.com/.  Not that I've been following it regularly myself, but I'll make more of an effort.  It's 15 minutes.

I'll keep my eyes open for some other resources.

[Glitch Girl]

I'm glad to see interest already. 

So those of you who are interested: what would be some realistic goals for the group?  How much to post and how often?  What else can we do to help keep us writing?  BB had a good idea with the podcast he posted (won't be able to review until after work)  - have a collection of writing-related resources available for people to use.  Anything else?

@Hamrick: Yes, screenplay format would be allowed as long as it abides by forum content rules.

[Alaric]

(Tried to post here before, but I was having connection issues.)

I'm in, as well. My writing skills are very rusty- I've been needing something like this.

So those of you who are interested: what would be some realistic goals for the group?  How much to post and how often?  What else can we do to help keep us writing?  BB had a good idea with the podcast he posted (won't be able to review until after work)  - have a collection of writing-related resources available for people to use.  Anything else?

About the "how much/how often" part- presumably, different people have different constraints on their time.  Maybe there could be different levels of commitment? Without getting too complicated, of course.

Maybe we could have a sub-forum under the Fan Fiction forum? Might not be necessary, but it could help us keep things a little more organized. It might also be useful to have a stickied thread where people can post general tips and the like- things we ourselves have found helpful.

Looking forward to the official start!

[Deaths Jester]

I might be interested, as long as poetry is allowed.  While I do write short stories on occassion, I often am more apt to write a poem instead.

[Mr. Hamrick]

I'm glad to see interest already. 

So those of you who are interested: what would be some realistic goals for the group?  How much to post and how often?  What else can we do to help keep us writing?  BB had a good idea with the podcast he posted (won't be able to review until after work)  - have a collection of writing-related resources available for people to use.  Anything else?

@Hamrick: Yes, screenplay format would be allowed as long as it abides by forum content rules.

It might be easier to post up scenes or treatments than entire scripts, GG.  I mean the two shorts that I am trying to expand to features are already 25-30 pages in length.

As for goals... my personal goal is to get one these two short films expanded into feature length projects.  And this other feature script written.   Fortunately, I am having some fairly specific problems with both of the shorts that I am trying to expand to features. 

Oh and with regards to the forum guidelines, the material is probably PG-13-ish.  As for other issues, which rules are you referring to? 

[crimsonquill]

I might be willing to throw my hat into the ring for something like this.. I've got several stories which I've wanted to develop but just never gotten around to expanding beyond a plotline or rough concept.

Since I primarily write horror/thriller/sci-fi material usually.. I'll keep my work in PG-13ish levels as much as possible.. cause I kinda go overboard with gore and shock from time to time. Stephen King and Clive Barker are both of my idols in writing.. which probably wouldn't surprise many folks who know me well.

I've been developing scripts and storyboards for a comic series over the last year or so.. so I have been keeping my writing/art skills well occupied.

[Viking]

Wow - I am pleasantly surprised by the level of response this has gotten.  I'm also interested in the Writers' Support Group, for pretty much any and all forms of writing.  It looks like we have quite the diverse selection of offerings.

My writing went on hiatus years ago, so its reawakening is unlikely to be much different from what it was - superhero genre stuff.  It's quite possible that I'll take this opportunity to finish some stories that I never got around to completing.

[Reepicheep]

People are bound to post their work at their own pace and rhythm. Maybe in general, the group should particularly support those who for some reason start to slack from their individual paces and try and help overcome writers blocks.

[PreRaphaelite]

It certainly sounds interesting. I know I for one often lose motivation or get stuck in rewriting loops. I'll have to think about this...

[Tortuga]

Hey folks,

I have a friend (those of you who played City of Heroes would remember Flashlite Brown) who is starting up an online writing magazine called "Genre Fiction Magazine".  He's looking for submissions for his first issue.  Writers get paid too yet.  He's currently in the process of launching his website.  If you're interested in sharing any of your work in that way you can contact him at admin@genrefictionmag.com.

Tort

[Previsionary]

Tomato alerted me to this thread. I've yet to read every post, but you all should know I support all creative works, especially writers. Obvi.

Tort, is there a readily available guideline put together for us to peruse?

[Mr. Hamrick]

Hey folks,

I have a friend (those of you who played City of Heroes would remember Flashlite Brown) who is starting up an online writing magazine called "Genre Fiction Magazine".  He's looking for submissions for his first issue.  Writers get paid too yet.  He's currently in the process of launching his website.  If you're interested in sharing any of your work in that way you can contact him at admin@genrefictionmag.com.

Tort

Definitely plan to get in touch with him.  Do you know anything about guidelines he has or what he is paying?

[JeyNyce]

Will it be held here on the forums and can anybody here comment on the writing?

[Glitch Girl]

@Reep:  That was one of the effects I was hoping for if we can get this going.  Sometimes you just need people to bounce ideas off of.

@Tortuga: thanks for the heads up.  If this is going to be a long-term thing, I'd like to add it to the (eventual) resource list.

@Jey: Held here at the forums hopefully.  I'd like to use Fan Fiction, or perhaps we can create a subforum of it for this.  Anyone who is registered here at FR can post work, and I guess critique as well.  Still working out the finer points, which is why this thread is here. 

[BlueBard]

One of the reasons I mentioned the "Writing Excuses" podcast is because its' goal is to encourage people to write and to stretch people who are already writing to broaden their skills.  Incidentally it also promotes various authors' work.  All of the writers involved are successful (published) even if they aren't necessarily "rock-star" authors.

In a way, FR has historically done the same thing with Fiction Challenges.  Every fiction challenge is an excuse and an inspiration to write.  It is also a way to promote your work as well as a way to challenge yourself to write something differently than you normally would.  Our Writers Group should basically be an extension of what FR's Fan Fiction forum has always done.

I'm going to come right out and say that some of you... probably most or all of you... are not ever going to make money at this or be famous.  I'll include myself in that category.  You may not have natural talent for it.  But even so, challenging yourself to write and to write better than before is worth it.  You will be a better person for it.

* Writing encourages you to learn new things
* Writing encourages clear and critical thinking... you'll care more about the hows and whys
* Writing encourages introspection... you will learn about yourself
* Writing teaches you to organize your ideas and to communicate more effectively
* Your work will stand out in a crowd of people who don't know how to communicate effectively
* Influencing other people with your ideas is fun and exciting
* And yes, when people tell you they like what you wrote it is a great ego-boost.

All of this only works if you're willing to be honest with yourself and open to what other people think.  Writing is a process and it is work and it is a skill that can be learned.  Almost anybody can do it.  The difference is that most people don't.

You can do it.  You just have to want to bad enough.

I write to inform, to provoke, to inspire, to persuade, and to entertain.  But Reading defines my life.  All that I am, I owe to reading. 

You post your stuff for critique and I will give you my honest opinion, good or bad.  Either way, I will tell you how to make it more readable.  Because I am a reader.  And a decent amateur editor, too, if I do say so myself.  Critically reading what others write will help you to be a better writer, too.

Oh, and Viking... expect me to challenge you to write stuff that isn't in the "superhero" or "supernatural" genre.  Because I care

[Mr. Hamrick]

I'm scheming for a challenge for Viking that isn't superhero either though I may relent a bit on the supernatural part.

Will look up the podcast, BB

[Viking]

Just how many people *are* there scheming to get me writing something outside of my normal realm of work?

Truth be told, my fiction writing started entirely via fan-fiction in the Freedom Force genre.  I'd never attempted it before that if it wasn't a class assignment.  And my writing was supported by three basic lessons that really resonated with me:

1) If you want to learn to write, you need to read.
2) If you want to learn to write, you need to write.
3) Your writing is much more compelling when you write about what you know.

So... what did I read?  Anything with strong characters, and with witty dialogue if possible.  Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan Saga, and Jim Butcher's Dresden Files top my list of favorites.  Along with the Girl Genius and Order of the Stick webcomics.

I realized that I didn't quite have the right mindset for writing science fiction - my eyes tend to glaze over as I read the technical descriptions in most sci-fi books, and my brain numbs as the players discuss the science in a sci-fi RPG.  (Despite my having a bachelor's degree in physics!)  Writing in the superhero genre was a wonderful way for me to ease into the writing of fiction.  The setting is more or less in the present day, so I don't have to invent entire civilizations out of whole cloth.  I don't have to explain how superpowers work in intricate detail.  And yet the presence of superpowers allows for marvelous flights of fancy in storytelling.  The same was more or less true with respect to supernatural tales - I could store bits and pieces of supernatural "lore" gained from reading works by Jim Butcher and Neil Gaiman, and draw upon that knowledge when writing.

On a tangential note, I recently shared my old stories with a friend and received one particularly valuable observation - many of my characters "sound" like they're speaking with the same voice.  Since I like writing dialogue, that's a really important point.  It made me realize that I was forming each of my character's sentences the way I would articulate the thought myself...  But not everybody speaks in the same fashion, or with the same mannerisms.  So that's given me some more food for thought.

[BlueBard]

On a tangential note, I recently shared my old stories with a friend and received one particularly valuable observation - many of my characters "sound" like they're speaking with the same voice.  Since I like writing dialogue, that's a really important point.  It made me realize that I was forming each of my character's sentences the way I would articulate the thought myself...  But not everybody speaks in the same fashion, or with the same mannerisms.  So that's given me some more food for thought.

That's why I started listening to the voices in my head.

Wait.  That didn't come out right.

[Mr. Hamrick]

On a tangential note, I recently shared my old stories with a friend and received one particularly valuable observation - many of my characters "sound" like they're speaking with the same voice.  Since I like writing dialogue, that's a really important point.  It made me realize that I was forming each of my character's sentences the way I would articulate the thought myself...  But not everybody speaks in the same fashion, or with the same mannerisms.  So that's given me some more food for thought.

You just hit on one of the major issues I am having with one of these scripts.  Specifically when one of the characters is of foreign origin and English isn't their first language (or even second in this case).   But in general the idea that there is something to give the actors things to run with in the script when they are developing their character.

But yeah, I have a short script that I started on for a former Vampire Diaries cast member.  When I saw you'd be involved, I figured it'd be up your alley, Viking.

[BlueBard]

So those of you who are interested: what would be some realistic goals for the group?  How much to post and how often?  What else can we do to help keep us writing?

On this topic...

Based on past experiences with fiction challenges, my guess is that anything over 250-300 words is not going to be something most people are going to have time for on a regular basis. 

I think "regular" writing challenges should be short exercises that stretch a little, not complete stories, every week or every other week at most.  Set a very low or no minimum word count, so people aren't frustrated or scared off by them.  They need to be regular enough that people can jump right in when they have the time, and they should have a "suggested" reasonable time limit to keep them on their toes and discourage procrastination.

Procrastination is a writer's Number One enemy.

Bigger challenges with higher minimum word counts should be saved for about once a quarter, maybe?

Everybody should set a personal goal for how often they'll post their work and how often they'll participate in writing exercises and make it public.  There should be a sticky thread for goal setting.  Then when I slack off, some helpful soul can remind me I have a goal I'm supposed to shoot for

[Tomato]

I'm going to be honest, I'm considering throwing my hat into something like this, if only to keep me going in my own work. I've had the epic story that is "Influx" in my head for a long time, and as much as I'd like to adapt it to any number of things (mods, animations, whatever) the simple fact is, it's simpler for me just to write it. And I wouldn't mind helping others keep up with their own stuff if it meant having someone keep me going... maybe not the nagging "I want more of your story NAOWZ!" but more a gentle "hey, you gonna keep going?" every so often kinda thing.

[BlueBard]

You just hit on one of the major issues I am having with one of these scripts.  Specifically when one of the characters is of foreign origin and English isn't their first language (or even second in this case).   But in general the idea that there is something to give the actors things to run with in the script when they are developing their character.

Yes, that's a problem alright.  The native language tends to flavor a person's speech, even if they don't salt their dialogue with words from that language.  Even someone from the UK is liable to phrase things differently than an American would.  Heck, you get that even with American dialects.

I don't envy you there.  All kinds of stuff you want to avoid, like --

A) There's barely any difference in dialogue; they sound like everybody else, or --
B) The dialect is over the top, forced, and unconvincing, or --
C) The speaker sounds like the village idiot

My recommendation is to write simple English.  Avoid using idioms or slang except rarely for emphasis.  Maybe salt the dialogue lightly with a few simple foreign words or phrases, again only for emphasis.  Allow the actor room to convince his audience he's not a native English speaker and don't try to force it through dialogue except where absolutely necessary.

And I'll bet I'm preaching to the choir

[Shaboba]

I just wrote a 90-page novella. Hence, I probably won't be writing anything at all for the next several months or so due to crippling burnout, so if this writing group thing materializes, I may not be as terribly active in it as I would be otherwise.

[Glitch Girl]

I think "regular" writing challenges should be short exercises that stretch a little, not complete stories, every week or every other week at most.  Set a very low or no minimum word count, so people aren't frustrated or scared off by them.  They need to be regular enough that people can jump right in when they have the time, and they should have a "suggested" reasonable time limit to keep them on their toes and discourage procrastination.

The one downside I see to that is that if you do have a long term project, this could fathomably pull you away from it.  Once every two weeks sounds preferable is they are to be a regular thing.    I had thought they could be open-ended and there if someone is lapsing on their regular writing because they're stuck or what have you, they've got a bit of inspiration to work with.

Everybody should set a personal goal for how often they'll post their work and how often they'll participate in writing exercises and make it public.  There should be a sticky thread for goal setting.  Then when I slack off, some helpful soul can remind me I have a goal I'm supposed to shoot for

I do like this idea.  Maybe a Member sign-up/pledge thread?

So... what did I read?  Anything with strong characters, and with witty dialogue if possible.  Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan Saga, and Jim Butcher's Dresden Files top my list of favorites.

Hmm.. two out of three already on my shelves... methinks I need to check out the Vorkosigan Saga.

[Tortuga]

Tomato alerted me to this thread. I've yet to read every post, but you all should know I support all creative works, especially writers. Obvi.

Tort, is there a readily available guideline put together for us to peruse?

I don't know all the details, but my friend (Tom) is very approachable and excited to get things going.  He'd happily answer questions for you via the email address (admin@genrefictionmag.com).

[Kommando]

Something to think about. I used to write a few years back. Apparently one of my stories even ended up in a Fanzine with a hard copy being sent to Michael Moorcock. Kind of cool but I never saw it.  I recall being part of a couple of contests on FR a few years back, but the computer I had then is long gone. So like my previous existence as a skinner and hexer, there is no longer any evidence to prove I was a writer at some point. Just a little frustrating to say the least. Still with the right motivation (I don't really drink much these days, and I recall much of my creativity came when I was hammered), I probably have a few stories left in me. At least these days I can put stuff on Google Docs and not worry if my laptop dies.