New Wonder Woman costume

[Kenn]

It's probably all a ploy for the movie.  Get a origin story that can actually be a movie unto itself, as opposed to just a first chapter.   Get a costume that more actresses will be willing to wear (and will look less pro-America so we can sell the film overseas).

[Podmark]

I only saw one episode of the original Battlestar Galactica. Seemed kinda goofy if I recall correctly. I definitely enjoyed the remake though. I've got no problem with remakes and re-imaginings as long as I enjoy them. I can think of lots of examples.

As for JMS' new take on Wonder Woman, I'd be more willing to give it a try if it was in a separate continuity. Making a change like this in regular continuity just creates confusion. But the costume probably works well with his new take.

[daglob]

For some reason I feel like most of the people producing comics these days are like a secondary antagonist in a Steve Ditko story. They're cutting all the heroism and nobility out of the characters, removing all the fantasy (and/or SF), ditching the colorful costumes, making them morally ambiguous, making their lives dismal and hopeless, saying that there is no hope, no chance of improbvement, and "noble" heroes just depress readers (so that's another reason for low sales).

Where's Gloria Steinem when you need her?

[Trelau]

It's probably all a ploy for the movie.  Get a origin story that can actually be a movie unto itself, as opposed to just a first chapter.   Get a costume that more actresses will be willing to wear (and will look less pro-America so we can sell the film overseas).

And how does marvel intend to sell us "captain america"?
By the way, the wonderwoman tv show with the classic costume was a huge success outside of the U.S too, so that shouldn't be a concern. Plus, there's ton of actresses who don't mind plain and simple nudity, only a diva would complain for the swimsuit (Sin City had lots of soft nudity from secondary characters, except...in the striptease scene, since jessica alba got the role)

Back on topic, i really don't see that change lasting (or having positive response if it last). Her origin was a major part of a character, the amazonian island gave a her a point of view unbiased by "the world of man", where women, honor an duty make the law. It was the contrast between these two world, and the fact that she was the bridge between these two society that gave her such a unique point of view for criticism. I don't see that wonderwoman having anything interesting to say.

[bat1987]

Interesting
http://techland.com/2010/07/02/wonder-womans-new-look-leads-to-comic-sellout/

I wonder when was the last time that happened to WW comic.

[Podmark]

Interesting
http://techland.com/2010/07/02/wonder-womans-new-look-leads-to-comic-sellout/

I wonder when was the last time that happened to WW comic.

It's not just the new costume. It's a combination of being an anniversary issue, a new high profile writer coming on board, media coverage and interest in the costume.

[GhostMachine]

Interesting
http://techland.com/2010/07/02/wonder-womans-new-look-leads-to-comic-sellout/

I wonder when was the last time that happened to WW comic.

It's not just the new costume. It's a combination of being an anniversary issue, a new high profile writer coming on board, media coverage and interest in the costume.

Yes, and hopefully sales go down the toilet soon, leading to JMS being removed from the title and the new costume canned.

[murs47]

Yes, and hopefully sales go down the toilet soon, leading to JMS being removed from the title and the new costume canned.

It probably will, regardless of what DC does. Wonder Woman doesn't have a large enough fan base and this is DC's attempt at expanding it. It's difficult to maintain a female solo book when the market is dominated by male readers.

[yell0w_lantern]

Remakes have their place.  It's not a matter of stupidity re: name recognition - if a concept is interesting and creative types wants to revisit it, why not?  Particularly when the concept wasn't done very well the first time around, as in the case of Battlestar Galactica.  Just calling it something else doesn't work if you really want to work with the same ideas and concepts, because then you get sued for copyright infringement.

If you don't think that marketing folks think we're dumb then just look at Hasbro's attempt to appeal to folks who don't like D&D 4E: http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Fantasy-Roleplaying-Game/dp/0786956291/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278186924&sr=1-11

If you change the fundamental ideas and concepts then its not the same thing.

All they really did with the new BSG was keep the names. Aside from that the only other similarity was humans versus robots. They could just as legitimately have called it Blade Runner, Terminator or Dune: the Butlerian Jihad.

Being a visual medium, the look of character is often a very important part of its concept.

[Podmark]

Yes, and hopefully sales go down the toilet soon, leading to JMS being removed from the title and the new costume canned.

It probably will, regardless of what DC does. Wonder Woman doesn't have a large enough fan base and this is DC's attempt at expanding it. It's difficult to maintain a female solo book when the market is dominated by male readers.

I'm not so sure. JMS is a pretty good draw in comics, and the revamp and press might buy them some extra sales for a while. I could see the book selling better for a while then Gail's run.

[Previsionary]

Indeed... and you might see WW actually in mythology inspired stories, since JMS did very well with Thor and made him slightly more popular. But, it's still a female led book, so the sales WILL drop, and she'll be kept around because of her Trinity status.

Though, there's a lot of irony at play here. WW really could have used the support when her sales were dying off, and yet it took a drastic change for people to take notice of and appreciate her "old" self.

[Stephy Grayson]

I hated the new costume, but hated the new origin still more!
Sales will be better for a short while, but they will drop until the book could be cancelled.
The TV series was very popular here in Brazil: boys and men liked it because Lynda Carter's good looks and girls identified with the main character.
Personally I like Kingdom Come's armored version and the  WW armor Terry Dodson made for Donna Troy.

[Talavar]

Remakes have their place.  It's not a matter of stupidity re: name recognition - if a concept is interesting and creative types wants to revisit it, why not?  Particularly when the concept wasn't done very well the first time around, as in the case of Battlestar Galactica.  Just calling it something else doesn't work if you really want to work with the same ideas and concepts, because then you get sued for copyright infringement.

If you don't think that marketing folks think we're dumb then just look at Hasbro's attempt to appeal to folks who don't like D&D 4E: http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Fantasy-Roleplaying-Game/dp/0786956291/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278186924&sr=1-11

If you change the fundamental ideas and concepts then its not the same thing.

All they really did with the new BSG was keep the names. Aside from that the only other similarity was humans versus robots. They could just as legitimately have called it Blade Runner, Terminator or Dune: the Butlerian Jihad.

Being a visual medium, the look of character is often a very important part of its concept.

I don't get the DnD book reference - how does that starter set attempt to appeal to people who don't like 4th edition?  It's very clearly labelled on Amazon as a 4th edition product. 

The new BSG kept more than the names - it also used a lot of the underpinning 'mythology' - protecting a fleet of civilian vessels while on the run, the twelve colonies/tribes, the search for the missing 13th, Earth.  What they did with those ideas was different (for instance, when Earth was found, the people from Galactica's fleet didn't have super powers there), but it's close enough to obviously not be the Terminator or Blade Runner.

What this has to do with Wonder Woman's new retcon & outfit, I've got no idea.  To reiterate, her new outfit isn't very good, her new direction worse.

[BentonGrey]

They're using an image for the cover that is iconic for an older version of DnD, thus trying to symbolically ally the 4th Edition, which is quite different, with early versions.

[Kenn]

Wonder Woman... Wonder Woman...
All the world's waiting for you,
and the power you possess.

In your leather pants...
Like you're ready to dance...
And the old Red, wait... Black and Blue....

Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman.
Now the world is ready for you,
and your wardrobe, new.

Jacket is Jim Lee's...
Letover from the '90s...
Don't have to worry about road rash....

Wonder Woman...
Put me back under, Wonder Woman...
I've got 200 bucks just for you.
And the magic that you do.

Stop a bullet cold,
Not with the method old,
Lose the braclets, lose your wrists...

Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman.
It's a blunder for, Wonder Woman.

[cmdrkoenig67]

That was hilarious, Kenn...

I didn't address the back story changes, but I also think it's horrible.  JMS screwed up Spider-Man and now he's doing it to Wonder Woman...Who now is not so wonderful, she's now more of a street level, Black Canary wannabee.

Dana

[JeyNyce]

Saw the preview of WW 600 and the costume is not THAT bad, she really should lose the jacket, but the top & pants are not bad.  It should be an alternate outfit for her, not her main one.

Also while reading the preview, I notice that the artist like to focus on her Boot-y.  Why?  There's a couple of panels where the first thing you notice is her backside, has comics stoop so low now?

[Kenn]

Well, back when Deodato was drawing the book he reduced her shorts down to the wonder thong.  This actually takes it one step better because now with just one long pair of tights, it's just like drawing her bum nekkid.

The star-spangled panties showed off her legs, this can show off her bum.   Increased coverage AND more objectifying of women.  SCORE!

[BWPS]

Saw the preview of WW 600 and the costume is not THAT bad, she really should lose the jacket, but the top & pants are not bad.  It should be an alternate outfit for her, not her main one.

Also while reading the preview, I notice that the artist like to focus on her Boot-y.  Why?  There's a couple of panels where the first thing you notice is her backside, has comics stoop so low now?

Do you read comics? Every single comic I've ever read with She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel attempts to use their colons as a focal point in at least two panels per character per issue.

[JeyNyce]

Saw the preview of WW 600 and the costume is not THAT bad, she really should lose the jacket, but the top & pants are not bad.  It should be an alternate outfit for her, not her main one.

Also while reading the preview, I notice that the artist like to focus on her Boot-y.  Why?  There's a couple of panels where the first thing you notice is her backside, has comics stoop so low now?

Do you read comics? Every single comic I've ever read with She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel attempts to use their colons as a focal point in at least two panels per character per issue.

IT's been a good 5 years since I sat down a read a comic.  Longer if you count a very good comic.

[Previsionary]

Has comics stoop so low? Hardly a new thing. I remember comics from the 70s and 80s objectifying women just as much because it was "sexy." A lot of male artists do that. I guess it's to make it entertaining for them. Let us not forget that we're talking about a character who used to get tied up all the time because it was her "weakness." Sure, I'll bet it was. ^^

[BentonGrey]

Heh, yeah, that is hardly a new thing.  Sadly, the nature of the comic business gives it a fairly unenlightened approach to women.  My wife hates Wonder Woman for precisely that reason, as a matter of fact.  She regards the character as immoral and "loose" because of the costume, and pointing out that this is just a function of 40 year old children who have never touched a real woman drawing the books doesn't seem to have much effect.

[Kenn]

The thing is, I think the new costume, though it covers more, actually is more objectifying than the classic costume.   This new costume, the penciller basically draws her nude from the waist down and the inker and colourist actually make it cloth.  The old costume may have looked like she was going to fall out of it (and according to Lyle WaGGoner, Jennie Epper, Lynda Carter's stuntwoman, often did) but this new look looks like she's looking for someone to rip it off of her.

[Silver Shocker]

Saw the preview of WW 600 and the costume is not THAT bad, she really should lose the jacket, but the top & pants are not bad.  It should be an alternate outfit for her, not her main one.

Also while reading the preview, I notice that the artist like to focus on her Boot-y.  Why?  There's a couple of panels where the first thing you notice is her backside, has comics stoop so low now?

Do you read comics? Every single comic I've ever read with She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel attempts to use their colons as a focal point in at least two panels per character per issue.

Yeah, this is definitely nothing new. Ed Bene's was incredibly blatant with that kind of thing in his JLA run under Meltzer and McDuffie (well, he's like that on everything he draws, but it seemed like he was really trying to top himself in JLA).

[GhostMachine]

Saw the preview of WW 600 and the costume is not THAT bad, she really should lose the jacket, but the top & pants are not bad.  It should be an alternate outfit for her, not her main one.

Also while reading the preview, I notice that the artist like to focus on her Boot-y.  Why?  There's a couple of panels where the first thing you notice is her backside, has comics stoop so low now?

Do you read comics? Every single comic I've ever read with She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel attempts to use their colons as a focal point in at least two panels per character per issue.

Yeah, this is definitely nothing new. Ed Bene's was incredibly blatant with that kind of thing in his JLA run under Meltzer and McDuffie (well, he's like that on everything he draws, but it seemed like he was really trying to top himself in JLA).

Well, Ed Benes is a Brazilian artist, and a LOT of them focus on that. I've got the website for an art dealer who handles mostly Brazilian artists bookmarked, and I'd say a good amount (if not the majority) is rear view or rear focus shots. (Incidentally, Benes' brother and sister also draw, and his sister is possibly better than he is)

I own a piece of Wonder Woman art by a Brazilian artist, and thankfully its NOT a rear view shot (got it off eBay, and wouldn't have bid on it the first place if had been).

[steamteck]

Well.  my 20 year old daughter, who may well be the biggest Wonder Woman fan on earth ( her  room has  6 Wonder woman statuettes  and  a poster as well as a Justice league poster) is for the first time since she could buy her own comics, not getting Wonder Woman. She even stuck with her through Greg Rucka, whom she wanted to " beat the crap out  of for not getting it".

She says when the real Wonder Woman returns she'll start buying again. She wants me to start picking her up  when she changes back to help out. I only get the first wave stuff now but maybe so.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I'm all for the classic costume to be rendered in a bit more functional, more modest way (no thongs, constant butt-shots and not having her breasts nearly falling out of her top in every panel)....But this is a comic book, do we really need to be concerned with the possibility of the character having a wardrobe malfunction?    Who cares about realism when we're talking about a character of ink and paper who can fly, has superhuman strength and a magic lasso that compels people to tell the truth?

This is why people like Jim Lee and JMS should not be making comics!  Wonder Woman is not "street"...She battles super-villains, gods and monsters, for criminy's sake!

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

Saw the preview of WW 600 and the costume is not THAT bad, she really should lose the jacket, but the top & pants are not bad.  It should be an alternate outfit for her, not her main one.

Also while reading the preview, I notice that the artist like to focus on her Boot-y.  Why?  There's a couple of panels where the first thing you notice is her backside, has comics stoop so low now?

Do you read comics? Every single comic I've ever read with She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel attempts to use their colons as a focal point in at least two panels per character per issue.

Anus that the truth! 

Dana

[DrMike2000]

Wonder Woman's a dilemma.

She was created by a guy who enjoyed a polyamorous power exchange lifestyle, and aspects of her are based on this. Alternative sexuality like this is a fascinating subject, and shouldn't be repressed or reviled in my opinion. To do so is my definition of unenlightened. But at the same time she's the female flagship character for a line of comics and other merchandise often marketted to kids.

So as much as I'd love to see, say, Grant Morrison do a series that goes back to her roots, I don't think its appropriate for the character, and would be better served by an analogue character instead. (In fact some people have described Alan Moore's Promethea as one of the best Wonder Woman stories ever written.)

As for her original costume making her look "loose" or "immoral", I say no. As long as it isn't thongified, it no more revealing than an outfit worn by dancers, sports player, pop stars or female member of the original Star Trek crew. And fictionally, she's from a semi-tropical society where women's bodies are not the subject of constant judgement, so it makes sense that she doesn't cover. Its no more deliberately titillating from her point of view than the Hulk walking around in ripped pants showing off his six-pack and pecs. Sure, JMS has provided her with a new origin under which this no longer makes sense, so she's wearing pants now. But this is no longer Wonder Woman, and won't stick any more than Electric Superman did.

[Talavar]

Oh, Electric Superman - he might as well have had an expiration date stamped on his forehead, and a short one too, like milk.  This Wonder Woman change might last longer than that, but it'll be gone before too long.

What I would like in a Wonder Woman costume: something largely her traditional outfit, but with shorts rather than the one-piece bathing suit bottom (even tight ones, like bike shorts), and straps over her shoulders or a closed-in top (something like Black Canary used to wear).  It's not as...hostile as her armoured outfits have looked, but just a touch more functional and not quite as revealing.