namor vs aquaman

[bearded]

hey BG, i think namor has a chance.  everyone forgets he can control sea life also!  check it:
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/hypnofish.htm

[herodad1]

namors body can also mimic certain abilities of sea creatures.his body can absorb electric current and re-direct it at a foe and can expand like a puffer fish.thats the only physical things ive seen him do other than his normal superhuman abilities.in the marvel v.s dc couple years back they made out like namor was a slow poke underwater compared to aquaman.why would that be? since namors way stronger wouldnt he be able to push through the water easier and also get more propulsion from his ankle wings? just wondering.

[lugaru]

Years ago I would have said Namor, hands down.

I havent read aquaman recently but just from the internet I'm aware that they have made him into much more of a warrior, with constantly creeping powers. I dont know where his limits are as of this date but odds are the fight would be a lot more even.

I can tell you that Aquaman is a lot more vulnerable to Pirranas than Namor is, I think namor is at least bulletproof.

[herodad1]

thats why dc NEVER pins down their abilities on their characters.i like aquaman but he's just as interesting not being as strong as namor.couple more years aquaman will be swimming backward at the speed of light turning back time and pulling planets out of orbit just so he's better than his marvel counter part.marvel and dc dont need cross overs because of this issue.

[GrizzlyBearTalon]

Heh, hypnofish... me like... funny...

I still like how he had a whale body slam Namor in the Marvel vs DC comics. Although those were horrificly bad and short changed fights. Still it gave us the amusing Amalgams which were fun.

I have no opinion on a fight between these two, the real challenge is could they arrange it and write such a fight well enough that I would actually read it and bother buying a copy.

[BentonGrey]

Well, the thing with any fight between Namor and Aquaman is that it is far more than a simple physical confrontation.  In strength, Namor is superior, and should remain so.  Yeah, Aquaman's power levels fluctuate, but if you look at his histroy, there is an overall logic that places him at about the levels you see in JLU (for an easy reference).  Even very early on, he was at LEAST bullet resistant, if not technically bullet proof, so he's pretty tough, and he has some pretty impressive endurance feats.  In speed, Aquaman definitely owns Namor, and you can't really apply logic to it.  Logically, neither one of them should be particularly adapted to life underwater.  After all, they don't really have any fins or visible gills.  Still, Aquaman is fast.  REALLY fast.  He can keep up with the Flash when he's running on the water and swim Niagara Falls upstream.  Think about that for a minute.  Anyway, Namor has the strength, and possibly even the toughness advantage.  In a physical confrontation, they would likely end up somewhat balanced, with the edge perhaps going to Namor.  Still, it isn't purely physical.  Aquaman has what is likely the most powerful mind on DC's earth, in terms of raw power.  During a telepathic battle with an enemy with similar abilities, his mind caused debilitating pain to pretty much every inhabitant of the earth, and certainly every inhabitant of the oceans...all of them.  He could probably hammer at Namor as they fought, and at the very least, put him off his balance.  Because of that, I would give most fights to Aquaman.

[herodad1]

how does he swim fast enough to keep up with flash?

[Talavar]

Namor.  This is one of the few cases where the Marvel analogue of a similar character is more powerful than its DC counterpart.

[BentonGrey]

how does he swim fast enough to keep up with flash?

*Shrug* how do those tiny ankle wings hold Namor up in the air?  Ha, it's comic logic man.  I don't buy it Talavar.

[herodad1]

well as far as namor, maybe like a bumblebee its wings are naturally too small for its body but the high reps those wings put out give it enough lift/propulsion to fly.when it comes to aquaman,doesnt he have an extra ability to create a hard water effect.maybe that ability gives him propulsion.mentally pushing himself threw the water.thats all i could come up with.

[marhawkman]

Namor's a mutant... That's all you need to know. :p Yeah he's also part Atlantean but he's still an Xmen style mutant.

And yes I also think he got Gypped in the VS Aquaman fight. Namor's strong enough to benchpress a freaking whale!!!!

[stumpy]

how does he swim fast enough to keep up with flash?

Via really bad writing. Seriously, at Flash's speed, water isn't even something we would recognize as a liquid. It would be more like a normal person running across fresh asphalt during hot weather; sure if you stand there for a week, you will sink in, but for all intents and purposes, it is a solid. Flash's top speed running on water should be like 90+% as fast as his top land speed. If Aquaman can keep up with Flash, then he is basically a speedster character (or somehow the Flash is not, when he's on water), which I think is well outside of his premise. IMO, this is one of the many cases where "just because it appeared in a comic doesn't mean it's canon."

(BTW, I have no idea about Namor vs. Aquaman, since I know so little about Namor.)

[BentonGrey]

I don't know, we're talking about things that are pretty much unquantifiable because they are so far outside of anything that we can actually relate to, but if Aquaman can swim Niagara Falls (from JLA, not Aquaman's own book, even) upstream, then he has to be able to generate an INCREDIBLE amount of speed and power.  Still, you have to suspend your disbelief a lot to accept that characters like this could exist.  Aquaman's speed is something often ignored, but he is really, REALLY fast.  He can dodge bullets, catch rocket fired harpoons, etc.  He's not as fast as Flash, but then when Flash is running on water, he doesn't necessarily have to be running at his top speed.  He only really needs to be running fast enough to NOT fall into the water.  Still, that means Aquaman is traveling pretty darn fast.  He really is monstrously underated.  At times he's fought gods, gone toe to toe with Ultraman and managed to keep him tied down.  In my mind, he's always been around Wonder Woman level of power....although, in my mind, she's not nearly in Superman's league, so take that for what's it worth.  Although, he HAS defeated Wonder Woman's evil twin, Superwoman.

Also, I'd say Aquaman is almost certainly a mutant as well.  It's really the only feasible (here I am contradicting myself, I suppose) explanation for how far above other Atlantians he is in terms of power.  Sure, other Atlantians are strong or tough, but Aquaman is INCREDIBLY strong and tough, even compared to them. 

Yeah, THAT fight was terrible, no argument here.  The other one, from the later book, was much better.  Aquaman nearly knocks Namor unconscious while mentally shutting down an entire ARMY of rogue Atlantians.  He wasn't even targeting Namor.  That, while not a fight in the same sense, I suppose, makes a lot more sense to me.

[stumpy]

I guess I spent too much time in fluid mechanics classes, but there really is little comparison between the speed needed to swim up Niagara Falls and that needed to go as fast as the Flash can run on water. As I said, without some deliberately contrived handicap, Flash can run on water at basically the same speed he can run on land. At those speeds, there is no practical difference that would affect running (for example, water isn't "slippery" or anything like that). To swim up Niagara falls, it would be necessary to maintain a linear swimming speed somewhat faster than the water is falling, which is a little under 70 mph. After that, he just needs enough added swimming speed overcome his body weight. Now, that may be pretty fast (maybe 120+ mph), but I've heard of Aquaman swimming at several hundred knots. So, assuming whatever magic makes that possible horizontally still works vertically, going up Niagara should be a snap for him. I'm just saying that neither one is even close to as fast as Flash can run.

Anyway, rereading, I think you meant that Aquaman can keep up with Flash when Flash is going just fast enough to run on water, not when he is running as fast as he can on water (which is what I was thinking about, and maybe herodad1, too). I agree that that's easily within the claims I've heard for Aquaman, since running on water doesn't require Flash to go very fast (by Flash standards ).

[BentonGrey]

The later is precisely what I was implying, although I imagine that is certainly no mean feat!  One stat I've heard quoted places Aquaman at 2000 fps in the water.

A few interesting speed things:

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3976/aquamanspeedfeat24qm1.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/272/aquamanspeedfeat04gh0.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3153/aquamanspeedfeat26mz5.jpg

A few of my favorite strength moments (there are many more ostentatious displays, but these are just cool):
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1554/aquamanannual199722ei8.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1921/aquamandurabilityfeat05zs8.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8976/aquamanv614153ql.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8172/aquamanv632131vp.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4875/aquamanv635165ym.jpg

Storming Hades itself...PAD's run has a few saving graces:
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/109/aquamanv546106ea.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/8625/aquamanv546112kb.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/5140/aquamanv546123ws.jpg

The Namor encounter I mentioned:
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/3368/jlavengers04339yb.jpg

:EDIT: My mistake, make that 20,000 fps.

[bearded]

right, but talking about controlling sea life, aquaman seems to be limited to real world fish.  namor got his hands on a mento fish.  so, that implies namor fish are stronger than aquaman's fish.

Sub-Mariner captures the sub with a giant clam

Johnny attacks but Sub-Mariner is ready with sea-creature called a flame-eater,

http://www.dcarchives.com/marvel/mm/ff/ff014.html
and there is this:
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/gigantos.htm
so, i don't buy the amalgam fight on several levels.  i don't see aquaman cheating either.  he is royalty.  noblisse oblige, donchaknow.  and namor would summon monstro, which would then eat the whale.

[BentonGrey]

right, but talking about controlling sea life, aquaman seems to be limited to real world fish.  namor got his hands on a mento fish.  so, that implies namor fish are stronger than aquaman's fish.

Not at all, my friend, not at all:

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2207/justiceleagues3of620gq8.jpg (Aquaman summons these, but someone hijacks them with technology)
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/320/finnyfriends01eq1.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1895/finnyfriends06er8.gif
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5770/finnyfriends18lo7.jpg

[yell0w_lantern]

Aquaman would win because I like him better than Namor.

[GrizzlyBearTalon]

Wait... they've not retconned away Namor's absurdly stupid (even for comics) feet wings???

I change my mind I care now...

Aquaman wins because Namor has stupid wings on his ankles.

Aquaman's I'm dressed like a terrifying goldfish costume > Namor's perma thong/daisy duke swimming shorts with ankle wings

[marhawkman]

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8172/aquamanv632131vp.jpg

that is actually pretty good. I still think Namor's stronger. Namor is strong enough to deck the Hulk.

[BentonGrey]

*shrug* As I said, those weren't necessarily the top end, and I'm not really arguing that Aquaman is as strong as Namor, I don't really think he is.  I don't think he's necessarily as strong as Wonder Woman either, but that doesn't mean that he isn't as powerful as they are.  All in all, I'd back him against either.  As for Namor decking the Hulk...well, here is Aquaman decking Shaggy Man, easily in Hulk's class:
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4627/aquamanstrengthfeat11xj2.jpg
Remember the episode of JLU with the League going up against the General?  Well, in the comics, the General was a shaved Shaggy Man, just to give you some context.

And another favorite moment of mine:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/tgtmarvel/jla-004-10.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/tgtmarvel/jla-004-11.jpg
Morisson did alright by Aquaman.

[GrizzlyBearTalon]

Shaggy... man?

So I just googled this fellow... he's essentially a furry Doomsday it seems. Why do I give Doomsday top billing even though Shaggy is older?

1) His name is Shaggy
2) I thought he was a super powered bigfoot
3) He was not a super powered bigfoot another point deduction
4) He doesn't have cool invulerable hair like Superman
5) He sometimes has adaptation powers, sometimes not
6) I was hoping at least his origin involved being an unwashed hippy, another failure
7) Super powered bones are cooler than non super powered fur

I concluded he doesn't have super powered hair, as somehow Eiling shaved himself. Of course perhaps he keeps a magic shaving kit around to counter his well... shaggyness.

That all being said I refuse to call him The General... FOREVER... shall he be Shaggy Man... Is his run in the Suicide Squad any good at least?

[Carravaggio]

If Aquaman can give a human a debilitating seizure with his telepathic powers by attacking the 'fish' part of our brain (remnant of our evolution etc.), he could probably take Namor out of the game completely, as Namor is much closer to sea life than we are.
I love both characters immensely, but Aquaman would take this one if I were writing it, but not until after he'd taken his proper lumps from the physically superior Namor.

[BentonGrey]

If Aquaman can give a human a debilitating seizure with his telepathic powers by attacking the 'fish' part of our brain (remnant of our evolution etc.), he could probably take Namor out of the game completely, as Namor is much closer to sea life than we are.
I love both characters immensely, but Aquaman would take this one if I were writing it, but not until after he'd taken his proper lumps from the physically stronger Namor.

Fixed.

[marhawkman]

the way I see it Aquaman would have to rely on his (apparently) superior telepathic skills to win. He is apparently strong enough in this regard that when J'onn needed help to beat Despero in a Telepathic battle, he found Aquaman. O_o'

[detourne_me]

sorry Benton, Carr was correct Namor is physically superior... he's not afraid to show off his swimmer's body while mister curry is so insecure that he hides behind an orange shirt
also,
ankle wings > calf fins
pointy head, eyebrows and ears > 'salty dog' beard
oh and here's the real proof:

Spoiler

>

[GrizzlyBearTalon]

sorry Benton, Carr was correct Namor is physically superior... he's not afraid to show off his swimmer's body while mister curry is so insecure that he hides behind an orange shirt
also,
ankle wings > calf fins
pointy head, eyebrows and ears > 'salty dog' beard
oh and here's the real proof:

Spoiler

>

*I'm taking this discussion very seriously*

No... just no... ankle wings suck... you see fins like flippers... can actually help you swim or might be sharp enough like that poisonous claw on a platypus to actually hurt something... in theory... but ankle wings? SUUUUCCCCCCCK!

You are just a thousand pounds of fail for supporting ankle wings.

He had the beard once, and the way you describe Namor he sounds like he is half elf or deformed, all Aquaman has to do is shave. Namor has TRUE DEFORMITY and would require a super powered or mad scientist plastic surgeon to operate on him to fix it or some sort of magical magician of plastic surgery.

I find your embracing of ankle wings & other deformity disturbing.

Though points for trying to prop Namor up by SUPPORTING ADULTERY!

[BentonGrey]

Not quite :
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3913/go3013an.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/131/go3027an.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1635/go3034pg.jpg

[GrizzlyBearTalon]

Please stop before we have to see NSFW pictures of Namor & Aquaman. I'm not sure I like where this is going. I am a little afraid even. Pretty sure I don't want this discussion to go that far in the comparisons department.

[herodad1]

aww, lets just say they both are powerful in their own ways.both have something the other one doesnt and would be awsome as a team.