namor vs aquaman

[Zippo]

One thing that should be taken into account about Aquaman's telepathy is it's ability to cross into all aquatic species regardless of species types.  It includes mammals, fish, mollusks, and crustaceans and have even been shown to work on alien aquatic species, and I have seen comics were it has had a limited capacity on humans.  It is possible that the limitation on aquatic animals might be some sort of sub-conscious thing, and he is could be a powerful telepathy as far as range and scope, but I don't see him having the telepathic focus that more dedicated telepaths would have.

Which raises the question: Since Namor is 50% water-dwelling creature, would Aquaman's mental powers be at near/full effectiveness against him?

[Ares_God_of_War]

I would say it depends on the writer and how much of him being a mutant would affect that. But Benton can link you some pic from some comic where Aquaman uses it on I think Attuma and some others and Namor said it gave him a headache or something like that.

[Kenn]

4th issue of JLA/Avengers.

[herodad1]

since this debates still raging ive thought about a few other points.first off i like BOTH characters about the same so i'm not bias toward either one but lets throw telepathy out the window for a minute.she-hulk kicked aquamans butt.she's not as strong as the hulk but namor has stood toe-to-toe with the hulk and held his own using not just muscle but his brains also because he cant stand up to the hulk for long.he had to cheat and trick to get the upperhand.in the marvel v.s dc story lines it was established that aquaman couldnt stand up to the submariners might and they both were under water.in a man-to-man toe-to-toe fight with no telepathy i'd go with namor.also no dropping killer whales either.

[Tawodi Osdi]

In one comic, I saw Aquaman eat a hotdog; so, I assume he can eat the full range that humans do, but I wonder how they cook their food.  Can you imagine having nothing to eat but sushi all of the time?

[lugaru]

When I went to the site where I check these things it say's that the current aquaman has a black lantern, so that might give him an edge. Otherwise...

The Sub-Mariner

Namor

F) In40
A) Rm30
S) Mn75
E) Am50
R) Ty6
I) Rm30
P) In40

Health: 195 Karma: 76
Resources: Rm Pop: -5

Known Powers:
Atlantean Physiology: Namor is an Atlantean, whose very body gives him the following abilities:
-Body Armor: Gd protection vs. Physical
-Resistance to Cold: Ex
-Swimming: Gd waterspeed
-Flight: Pr airspeed
-Water Breathing
-Water Freedom: Namor doesn't suffer penalties in underwater battles and is +1cs Fighting, Strength and Endurance

Equipment:
None

Limitations:
Dehydration: Namor is in constant danger of dehydrating. If not immersed in water or kept in a damp environment, he suffers a -1CS to all FEAT rolls for each hour. If totally deprived of moisture, he loses 1 Health point per hour. Immersion in water restores any Health lost to Dehydration immediately.

Talents: Edged Weapons, Undersea life, Martial Arts B, Wrestling

Contacts: Atlantis, Invaders, Fantastic Four, Avengers

Aquaman

Orin/Arthur Curry

F) Am50
A) Rm30
S) Mn75
E) Am50
R) Gd10
I) Ex20
P) In40

Health: 205 Karma: 70
Resources: Rm Pop: 30

Known Powers:
Atlantean Physiology: Aquaman's very body gives him the following abilities:
-Body Resistance: Ex resistance to Physical
-Resistance to Cold: Un
-Hyper Swimming: Rm
-Water Freedom: Orin doesn't suffer penalties in underwater battles and receives +1cs Fighting, Endurance and Strength.
-Water Breathing: Aquaman is amphibious and can breathe both air and water.
-Ultra Vision: Rm
Telepathy (Marine Life only): Un to talk to or control sea life. He can also perform the following power stunts:
-Sonar Location: Am

Equipment:
None

Weakness:
Dehydration: Aquaman needs to immerse himself in water for at least an hour every 24 hrs to keep his powers and stats at peak levels. For every two (2) hours past that point, reduce all his physical stats and powers 1 rank. This affects his Health too. One (1) hour's immersion in water will immediately restore all lost ranks and health.

Talents: Royalty, Ocean Life, Oceanography, Martial Arts B, Pilot, Leadership, Bi-Lingual (English, Atlantean), Diplomacy, Resist Domination, Marine Biology, Underwater Combat

Contacts: Tempest, Vulko, Mera, Dolphin, Lagoon Boy, Justice League
VS

[lugaru]

What is funny is that this dude makes aquaman more powerful than submariner, which might be true, a weak DC hero is probably as potent as a marvel heavyweight.

[Tawodi Osdi]

If those stats are accurate, it would be a close fight either way.  I know enough to know that comes from the TSR Marvel rpg, but I have never played it; so, my interpretation of the stats could be way off.

[marhawkman]

here's something interesting:  when J'onn needed a telepath's help to defeat Despero his first choice was Aquaman.  This suggests that Aquaman DOES have great psionic potential.  It's just that the "wavelength" of his telepathy makes it difficult to use on non-aquatic lifeforms.

[Kenn]

In one comic, I saw Aquaman eat a hotdog; so, I assume he can eat the full range that humans do, but I wonder how they cook their food.  Can you imagine having nothing to eat but sushi all of the time?

Mmmm.  Unagi!    Sadly, Unagi is river eel.  I don't know how the eels in the Atlantic are.

[Kenn]

When I went to the site where I check these things it say's that the current aquaman has a black lantern, so that might give him an edge. Otherwise...

The Sub-Mariner

Namor

F) In40
A) Rm30
S) Mn75
E) Am50
R) Ty6
I) Rm30
P) In40

Health: 195 Karma: 76
Resources: Rm Pop: -5

Known Powers:
Atlantean Physiology: Namor is an Atlantean, whose very body gives him the following abilities:
-Body Armor: Gd protection vs. Physical
-Resistance to Cold: Ex
-Swimming: Gd waterspeed
-Flight: Pr airspeed
-Water Breathing
-Water Freedom: Namor doesn't suffer penalties in underwater battles and is +1cs Fighting, Strength and Endurance

Equipment:
None

Limitations:
Dehydration: Namor is in constant danger of dehydrating. If not immersed in water or kept in a damp environment, he suffers a -1CS to all FEAT rolls for each hour. If totally deprived of moisture, he loses 1 Health point per hour. Immersion in water restores any Health lost to Dehydration immediately.

Talents: Edged Weapons, Undersea life, Martial Arts B, Wrestling

Contacts: Atlantis, Invaders, Fantastic Four, Avengers

Aquaman

Orin/Arthur Curry

F) Am50
A) Rm30
S) Mn75
E) Am50
R) Gd10
I) Ex20
P) In40

Health: 205 Karma: 70
Resources: Rm Pop: 30

Known Powers:
Atlantean Physiology: Aquaman's very body gives him the following abilities:
-Body Resistance: Ex resistance to Physical
-Resistance to Cold: Un
-Hyper Swimming: Rm
-Water Freedom: Orin doesn't suffer penalties in underwater battles and receives +1cs Fighting, Endurance and Strength.
-Water Breathing: Aquaman is amphibious and can breathe both air and water.
-Ultra Vision: Rm
Telepathy (Marine Life only): Un to talk to or control sea life. He can also perform the following power stunts:
-Sonar Location: Am

Equipment:
None

Weakness:
Dehydration: Aquaman needs to immerse himself in water for at least an hour every 24 hrs to keep his powers and stats at peak levels. For every two (2) hours past that point, reduce all his physical stats and powers 1 rank. This affects his Health too. One (1) hour's immersion in water will immediately restore all lost ranks and health.

Talents: Royalty, Ocean Life, Oceanography, Martial Arts B, Pilot, Leadership, Bi-Lingual (English, Atlantean), Diplomacy, Resist Domination, Marine Biology, Underwater Combat

Contacts: Tempest, Vulko, Mera, Dolphin, Lagoon Boy, Justice League
VS

The thing is, the site you pulled this from is a fan site.   I sincerely doubt that there was ever a TSR Marvel Super-Heroes supplement that covered the Justice League and was actually approved by DC editorial.

I also take the stats I've seen for Marvel characters put into the old Mayfair DC / Blood of Heroes system with a grain of salt, because again, they are fan interpretations not approved by the Marvel editors.

The fan who produced this thinks Namor and Aquaman are essentially physical equals.  And I know very few people who think that.  Not even Aquafans like me.

[GhostMachine]

Yeah. No way Aquaman is anywhere Namor's strength level. I'd say at most he's probably closer to Spider-Man.

[Tawodi Osdi]

Come to think of it.  I've seen Namor go two to two with the likes of the Thing and Ironman.  I just don't think Aquaman would last long against those guys.

[BentonGrey]

Come to think of it.  I've seen Namor go two to two with the likes of the Thing and Ironman.  I just don't think Aquaman would last long against those guys.

*Facepalm!*

Did you people not bother to read this thread?  Seriously, you're going to make me do this AGAIN?  Alright, I'm just copying and pasting my own post:

And I'll add some new ones as well.  We've got Aquaman staggering Amazo, who, as we know, is as tough as Superman:

And fighting a giant, rampaging monster, which he is blitzing AFTER he just exhausted himself forcing it to release his sidekick:

Aquaman has Despero, yet ANOTHER god-like being, on the ropes for a while, AND he's the one whom MM calls on to aid him, as someone pointed out earlier:
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/546/aquamanvsdespero046th.jpg

The later is precisely what I was implying, although I imagine that is certainly no mean feat!  One stat I've heard quoted places Aquaman at 2000 fps in the water.

A few interesting speed things:

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3976/aquamanspeedfeat24qm1.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/272/aquamanspeedfeat04gh0.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3153/aquamanspeedfeat26mz5.jpg

A few of my favorite strength moments (there are many more ostentatious displays, but these are just cool):
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1554/aquamanannual199722ei8.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1921/aquamandurabilityfeat05zs8.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8976/aquamanv614153ql.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8172/aquamanv632131vp.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4875/aquamanv635165ym.jpg

Storming Hades itself...PAD's run has a few saving graces:
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/109/aquamanv546106ea.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/8625/aquamanv546112kb.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/5140/aquamanv546123ws.jpg

The Namor encounter I mentioned:
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/3368/jlavengers04339yb.jpg

:EDIT: My mistake, make that 20,000 fps.

*shrug* As I said, those weren't necessarily the top end, and I'm not really arguing that Aquaman is as strong as Namor, I don't really think he is.  I don't think he's necessarily as strong as Wonder Woman either, but that doesn't mean that he isn't as powerful as they are.  All in all, I'd back him against either.  As for Namor decking the Hulk...well, here is Aquaman decking Shaggy Man, easily in Hulk's class:

Remember the episode of JLU with the League going up against the General?  Well, in the comics, the General was a shaved Shaggy Man, just to give you some context.

And another favorite moment of mine:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/tgtmarvel/jla-004-10.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/tgtmarvel/jla-004-11.jpg
Morisson did alright by Aquaman.

Namor is tougher?  Spoken with conviction I see.  Ahh...you're going to make me back up what I said about Aquaman's toughness, hmm?  

Able to withstand incredible pressure...of course:
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/7194/aquamanagainst800atmospheres4d.jpg

Aquaman takes on the Deep Six, six, count 'em SIX class 100 bruisers who gave Orion a run for his money.  Arthur takes the best they've got and still puts them down.  He did have his "son" Koryak (can't stand the character) to help him, but still...that's two against six.  Slig at least is on She Hulk's level, and they are all likely higher.
http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/7595/aquamanv508083it.jpg

Taking fire from a hi-tech weapon:
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/5086/aquamanfightsblind021kj.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/9571/aquamanfightsblind038me.jpg

Surviving a big torpedo strike (in style):
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8906/aquamansurvivesatorpedo015zr.jpg
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/7272/aquamansurvivesatorpedo027ql.jpg

A little more:
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/1227/jla02511tl7.jpg (ouch)
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/3523/jla02512is4.jpg (bulletproof)
Right after this he jumps all the way back down to the ground, taking that water guy out in the process.

Takes a GIANT blast from a huge Starro:
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/849/jla23pg13kt0.jpg (Which knocks Orion flat out)
Not only does he survive, but he's right back in the fight:
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/2360/jla23pg16mw9.jpg

Trades blows with King Shark, who has played fisticuffs with Superboy on a number of occasions:
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3332/swordofatlantis46page14zu4.jpg

And one of my favorites, Aquaman takes on the UNBELIEVABLY powerful Titus:
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2087/jlaclassified53011ij4.jpg
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/210/jlaclassified53012wu9.jpg (The narration says he lasts a minute against this guy, but just for some context, about a page back Titus casually knocked Superman across a continent.  The fact that he was still alive after this encounter speaks volumes.)

I'm not saying Aquaman is tougher, in fact, I rather suspect the opposite, but I am saying that it is anything but cut and dried.

Quite simply, Aquaman may not be quite as strong as Namor, in terms of raw lifting power, but he's not very far off.  He's regularly hefted huge weights, both in and out of the water.  More importantly, he DEFINITELY outclasses Namor in speed, and his telepathy would naturally affect the Prince of the Blood, after all he was able to cripple every being on earth for a few minutes during a telepathic battle with a foe who had powers similar to his.  He sent halfbreeds into a daze and nearly sent the Atlantians into a coma:
http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/1962/aquamandoestelepathicbattle017.jpg
(Hundreds of miles away, sea life is going absolutely nuts, and swamp ships, etc.)

And we'll toss in a few more, just for giggles:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8476/aquamanv534194qv.jpg (Taking out a LITERAL mythological god)
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5887/aquamanv633171uc.jpg (strength AND speed, Aquaman blows straight through metal and stone, dodging artillery fire all the while)
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6127/aquamanv157073fi.jpg (an early strength feat, swinging a huge anchor)
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/7088/jlavengers02064rl.jpg (If you insist on talking about that stupid first crossover, well here you go.  Aquaman seems to be going toe to toe with Iron Man, look at that.)
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3102/jlav311216wf3.jpg (leading a team of second stringers that stalemates the CSA AND taking on Ultraman)
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4129/aquamanstrengthfeat14ux9.jpg (knocking out Superboy)

I'll respond to Hammick's post later, but I just thought I'd remind people that I've ALREADY talked about all this stuff.

[herodad1]

never knew how aquaman lost his hand.

[Blitzgott]

According to DC Comics Database, Aquaman can lift in excess of tens of thousands of tons, when properly hydrated. Namor can lift 100 tons... Maybe a little more, if hydrated. Aquaman beats him with a flick. Plus, Aquaman is said to be faster than The Flash underwater, and has all other kinds of cheap stuff.

As time passes, the guys over at DC just make their characters more and more ridiculously god-like. There is just no comparing them with Marvel characters anymore.

If you're comparing the more classic versions of the characters, before DC went bat*** with their characters, then yes, Namor hands Aquaman his backside. But, if its modern Aquaman X modern Namor, Aquaman wins, and he doesn't even need his telepathic what-the-hell to do it.

Oh! Almost forgot. If they're fighting on land (but who would want to see a fight between those two anywhere other than the dephs of the ocean?), Namor would have the edge, because he is not as weakened as Aquaman is by dehydration.

[herodad1]

because of those stats there should never be a dc v.s marvel.in the dc universe batmans about as strong as marvels luke cage.subby does get weaker as his body dehydrates.thats why when fighting on land everyone tries to keep him away from water. benton..my hats off to you bud.you are the ultimate aquaman fan.

[daglob]

The thing is, none of this matters. Not because these are just comic book characters, but because a new writer may take over the series and decide to make Aquaman the son of Posieden (and he will really have "godlike" powers), or that that Namo loses al his powers out of water (reducing him to baseline human stats), to heck with tho continuity (cuz none of that matters anyway), and in a cuple of years another writer will take over the series an complety re-do the character again .

I don't mind it when a character develops and changes over time, but total re-writes...

And I really think that Namor and Aquaman are pretty much evenly matched when you take all their strengths and weaknesses into account. But that would depend on the writer, and who he WANTED to win.

[GhostMachine]

That DC Comics Database can't be right. If Aquaman was that strong, he'd outclass just about every Marvel hero, including the Hulk, Hercules and Thor. And there's no way Aquaman could be faster than the Flash underwater. The Flash can run faster than the speed of light, and I don't recall any stories where Aquaman swam to the other side of the planet instantaneously.

If they really have upped his power levels THAT much, methinks they've gone too far.

[steamteck]

That DC Comics Database can't be right. If Aquaman was that strong, he'd outclass just about every Marvel hero, including the Hulk, Hercules and Thor. And there's no way Aquaman could be faster than the Flash underwater. The Flash can run faster than the speed of light, and I don't recall any stories where Aquaman swam to the other side of the planet instantaneously.

If they really have upped his power levels THAT much, methinks they've gone too far.

I tend to agree. The thing about these vs threads is lots of really excessive stuff tends to get paraded about that makes me like the characters less. I've always preferred characters a little less crazy excessive that use what they've got well. That's one thing I really liked about the Timmverse. Superman, Wonder Woman I really really like in concept but often not so much in execution. Timmverse Aquaman is just about right for me. He definitely won me over in the scene where he sacrificed his hand for his son and how he acted afterwards.

Since I like this guy I guess that's why I don't like the telepathic control over humans which I regard a essentially an evil power. I find Martian Manhunter much better in the cartoon because no mind control also. J'onn is the poster boy for uncontrolled power creep combined with nerfing because he's so powerful anyway. What a waste.

Anyway Aquaman and Namor would be a good fight. I'd give a little edge to Aquaman because of his resolve and cleverness but I could see it going either way. Aquagod takes it easily but what's the fun in that?

[Blitzgott]

Well, they gotta do what they gotta do so Aquaman can roll with the big boys.

I think it must be a conscience thing, like DC is trying to redeem itself for making Aquaman so weak on that Super Friends crap-show.

Sorry, Ghost Machine. I meant Aquaman can swim faster than the Flash; not swim faster than the Flash can run.

Also, he is not stronger than any of those guys you mentioned. Hulk, Hercules and Thor have immeasurable strength. What with Hulk holding a montain weighting one-hundred MILLION tons to keep it from squashing the Avengers; Hercules being strong enough to toss Godzilla, and Thor being stronger than them both.

Aquaman is just stronger than any Marvel powerhouse that is not godlike/DC-esque.

[Kenn]

Please take anything at the DC Comics Database (or any of the related comics Databases) with a grain of salt approximately the size of the Argo City asteroid folks.

[thanoson]

Well, they gotta do what they gotta do so Aquaman can roll with the big boys.

I think it must be a conscience thing, like DC is trying to redeem itself for making Aquaman so weak on that Super Friends crap-show.

Sorry, Ghost Machine. I meant Aquaman can swim faster than the Flash; not swim faster than the Flash can run.

Also, he is not stronger than any of those guys you mentioned. Hulk, Hercules and Thor have immeasurable strength. What with Hulk holding a montain weighting one-hundred MILLION tons to keep it from squashing the Avengers; Hercules being strong enough to toss Godzilla, and Thor being stronger than them both.

Aquaman is just stronger than any Marvel powerhouse that is not godlike/DC-esque.

Umm... Thor being stronger than them both? Hulk is strongest. Thor and Herc were always even strength wise. But never stronger than Hulk.

[The Enigma]

We all know that if Spiderman can take on Firelord, he'd probably wipe the floor with Superman or be able to take down Namor and Aquaman at once (which is to say, these things are never decided in a vaccuum and that it's all subjective, depending on what the writer's agenda is).

[GhostMachine]

Well, they gotta do what they gotta do so Aquaman can roll with the big boys.

I think it must be a conscience thing, like DC is trying to redeem itself for making Aquaman so weak on that Super Friends crap-show.

Sorry, Ghost Machine. I meant Aquaman can swim faster than the Flash; not swim faster than the Flash can run.

Also, he is not stronger than any of those guys you mentioned. Hulk, Hercules and Thor have immeasurable strength. What with Hulk holding a montain weighting one-hundred MILLION tons to keep it from squashing the Avengers; Hercules being strong enough to toss Godzilla, and Thor being stronger than them both.

Aquaman is just stronger than any Marvel powerhouse that is not godlike/DC-esque.

But has the Flash ever actually been shown swimming? He runs so fast he can run across water, so there's no real need for him to have to swim.

And the Hulk thing with the mountain, he wasn't lifting the mountain so much as he was bracing it so it wouldnt crush him and the other heroes trapped underneath it. Still impressive but not as big a feat of strength as if he was actually lifting it.

[Talavar]

And everyone should know the two rules of comparing superheroes:

1.  Throw out both characters' greatest feat of strength/awesomeness.

2.  Throw out both characters' weakest appearance/feat of lameness.

So with this in mind, beating Firelord gets thrown out when comparing Spider-man to anyone, and losing to Spider-man gets tossed when comparing Firelord to anyone.  It's just a simple way to eliminate a lot of author fiat.

[deano_ue]

and no that wasn't one of the moronic fan voted outcomes.

[Previsionary]

Doesn't mean it wasn't moronic though. Probably more so.

[Tawodi Osdi]

When did Aquaman develop a sense of humor.  The last time I read anything with him Batman could have given him tips on lightening up.

[deano_ue]

Doesn't mean it wasn't moronic though. Probably more so.

mate, when the book has wolverine beating lobo, that page with namor and aquaman can be classed as pulitzer prize winning writing. at least it makes sense