Fairytale TV: Once Upon a Time/Grimm

[Glitch Girl]

So it seems the current zeitgeist in programming is fairytales in modern settings. For now I decided to lump 'em both in one thread, and it turns out one needs its own thread, so be it.

Once Upon a Time (OUAT) is very reminiscent of the comic series "Fables".

Grimm is more of a crime procedural with fantastical elements.

FYI: Grimm premieres on the 28th, while OUAT premiered last night, which is why I'm going to focus on it for now...

The pilot for OUAT tells two stories, one set in the present (plot A), another set 28 years in the past (plot B) which explains how we got to this point. 

Plot A centers around Emma Swan, a bailbondsman (and rather bitter orphan) who's celebrating her 28th birthday by entrapping a deadbeat dad and then treating herself to a cupcake in lieu of a birthday cake (ie: her life kinda sucks).  As she blows out the candle, as if on cue, there's a knock at the door, and in walks a 10 year old kid with a strange storybook who (surprise!) is the son she gave up for adoption 10 years ago!  He's run away from his adopted mom, the mayor of a town called Storybrook which... is a little odd.  Things don't go very well, and Emma is starting to get suspicious, so she decides to hang around for a bit.

Plot B...

Spoiler

...starts when Prince Charming wakes Snow White.  They marry shortly after, but during the ceremony, who should show up by the Wicked Queen who says she'll curse the land so that they'll all be sent someplace TERRIBLE (methinks New Jersey, but no it's actually Maine), where only SHE will have a happy ending MWHAHAHAHAHAAA!!  (ahem)  Nothing happens for a while, long enough for Snow to be pregnant, but things are looming, so they consult Rumpelstiltskin (SGU fans may recognize him)  who is imprisoned in the dungeon. For the price of the yet-to-be-born princess' name, he says that yes there is a curse coming, but there is an out - Snow's daughter will return on her 28th birthday and save them all!  The fairytale council immediately starts work on a plan that borrows from both Narnia and Superman and create a wardrobe that will spirit one person to safety.  The plan is for that one person to be the pregnant Snow, but of course things don't go as planned.  She starts having the baby just as both the Wardrobe is finished AND the 9-months-in-the-making curse comes down in a creeping cloud of black and a hoard of dark riders.  Since it can only take one, Prince takes the newborn, fights his way to the shuttlecraft wardrobe, puts the baby inside, but gets mortally wounded for his trouble.  The baby gets sent to the real world (where we find out it appeared near a highway, ouch!) just as the curse takes effect, turning the fairytale kingdom into (you guessed it) the town of Storybrook!  Now the Evil Queen is mayor, Snow White is a schoolteacher, the prince is a John Doe in a coma (c'mon, you don't think Queenie would let him get out of her curse with something as simple as death?) Jiminy Cricket is the (human) local shrink, childless Geppetto works at the jail, Granny runs the failing Bed & Breakfast while Red Riding Hood is... a bit of a loose woman, and Mr Gold, a.k.a. Rumpelstiltskin, "owns" the town, or is at least collecting large wads of either rent or protection money.  Oh yeah, and no one except the Queen remembers anything from before... so far.  There's also a wolf but we're not quite sure how he fits in yet, though I have my suspicions.

Oh I almost forgot, Emma Swan, being a magic baby, apparently has the uncanny ability to tell when someone is lying to her. 

I do have one nagging question though: Why did the Mayor/Evil Queen adopt the kid in the first place?  She doesn't seem to recognize Emma which means she wouldn't know about the kid's lineage, right?  It isn't because she likes kids, that much is obvious.

It's hard not to ignore the similarities between this and Fables, but snark aside, I am kinda intrigued, so I'm going to see how it plays out the next few episodes.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Saw it.  Like it so far.  We shall see.

[docdelorean88]

Not only do i love the concept but the execution is incredible. The Fairy Tale world itself is portrayed quite uniquely. I particularly like that all of the stories take place in one consistent realm. I also like the way the characters fairytale aspects seem to slip into the real world. Snow and the bird was cute, but i like Leroy's Whistle While You Work, bit. Im extremely excited to see the rest of the season play out, and truly hope there is enough interest from others to keep it going.
Grimm however, i dont see lasting very long. But i havent watched that yet either.

[Glitch Girl]

Well, the second series, Grimm aired last night.  Synopsies and spoilers to follow.

Unlike UOAT, Grimm is set squarely in the real world with no long-ago flashbacks.  Our hero is Nick, a cop who's about to propose to his live-in girlfriend, and who has started seeing things that are a bit on the creepy side thanks to a family history no one's bothered to tell him until now.

Spoiler

The show starts with a woman in a red hoodie going jogging to "Sweet Dreams" by the Eurythmics (believe it or not, this is important).  She happens upon a hummel figurine in the park and when she stops to look at it, something leaps out and mauls her.

Enter our cop and his partner who investigate.  They find a shoe print and the ipod she was listening to which is still playing the SAME SONG several hours after she was attacked (what, did she have it on infinite repeat or something?).  Nick is also starting to see things - he'll be looking at people, and suddenly their faces go all ghoulish. He's rattled but doesn't seem to be making  a big deal out of it.  He eventually heads home where he finds his girlfriend and a surprise visitor, Aunt Marie (who apparently raised him and happens to be bald due to cancer treatment) and her big ol' metal trailer of stuff (more on that later).  Aunt Marie draws him aside, telling him they need to talk.  They go outside, and she starts telling him all these cryptic things, like asking him if he's seeing things, how things aren't fairy tales, and so forth when suddenly they're attacked by one of those ghoulish people.  Nick ends up shooting it, and Marie, who got injured defending him, is taken to the hospital where she goes comatose but not before giving him a key to her trailer and more crypticness saying that his parents didn't die in an accident like he thought.

Nick checks out the trailer and finds it contains a medieval weapon collection to rival most museums and books full of notes and drawings of those ghoulish people.  Then, a little girl wearing a red hoodie (subtle) disappears, and Nick mistakenly calls the police down on a local who, to his eyes, looks pretty wolfy.  Turns out Eddie (the aforementioned guy) recognizes Nick as a Grimm, a hunter of all things evil (or something like that) and just for giggles, decides to help him.  You see, the kidnapper is another one of whatever race Eddie is (I'm not going to even attempt to spell it, but suffice it to say it's basically the big bad wolf incarnate).  Nick finds the place, calls his partner but not the rest of the force (since he "cried wolf" (yes he said those words) the last time), the go in and ask the creepy postman some questions.  The only possible evidence, the shoes that made the prints earlier, are nowhere to be found, and they're about to leave empty handed, when the partner realizes that the guy was humming "Sweet Dreams" by the Eurythmics so he MUST have been at the previous murder! (HUH????)  They go back, promptly get attacked, the bad wolfy guy gets shot, they find the girl and yay, the day is saved!

But wait, there's more!  Nick goes back to the hospital to visit with Marie and barely saves her from getting injected with some green stuff from one of those ghoulish people posing as a nurse.  The nurse leaves, meets up with some guy who's obviously in charge of something evil, and he remarks that Marie shouldn't be allowed to wake up - cut to Marie waking up, end of episode.

I didn't enjoy this one nearly as much as OUAT.  It doesn't feel nearly as thought out  and the characters for the most part were pretty bland.  The two exceptions being Eddie, who's at least got a personality, and Marie -who I admit I didn't think was going to live through the first episode, and for a cancer-ridden older lady, can hold her own pretty well. 

Then there's the transference of the Grimm powers.  The way everyone talks, it sounds like they transfer after one Grimm dies, and yet, Nick doesn't get his sight until just recently, never mind that his parents have been dead since he was a kid.  What's more, if hes getting them from Aunt Marie, well, she's dying, but not dead yet.  And WHY didn't someone tell him before now?  Seriously? 

Overall, not that enthused with Grimm. I'm gonna give this one another episode or two, but unless it picks up, I'm probably not going to stick with it.

Addendum: Almost forgot one cool little reference in there - While searching for the girl, they end up on Hildebrandt Lane, which might be a reference to this book.

[Previsionary]

I caught Grimm, tried to watch it, and thought talking to Tomato was more enjoyable, and that's sad. I might give it another episode, but the only thing it accomplished with me is making me miss "The Reaper."

[bredon7777]

Grimm was..adequate. It needs to get better, fast though if it's going to stand a chance.  The extended preview was enough to give me some hope, though.

I am, however, sold, on OUAT. I thought it would be really cheesy, and it was amazingly well done.  My only nitpick was their repeated harping on how absolutely terrible our world is. I said to my wife- "I'll take electricity and the internet over magic any day."

[Glitch Girl]

RE: the Horrible Place

Well, they are in Maine.  One of my friends refers to it at the worst place he's ever lived so maybe they're onto something .

Finally got around to episode 2, and to my surprise, some of the questions I had in the first episode were answered!  Plus a whole lotta new information is presented...

Spoiler

some thoughts:

• So the reason the curse took so long is that the Evil Queen had to retrieve it from the Wicked Fairy, perform it, get it wrong, find out why, THEN perform it again.
  
• Speaking of curses, turns out Rumpelstiltskin created this fairytale WMD.  When he tells the Queen what she needs to cast it, he also makes sure that a) he has a place of power in the new world,and b) she has to do whatever he says as long as he says "please".  Oh boy...
  
• Why was the Wicked Queen so stubborn about casting this thing?  Because somehow, Snow White was responsible for an unnamed male's death.  I suspect this was the Huntsman originally sent to kill Snow, but  if that is the case, then who's the sheriff?  Maybe the woodsman from Red Riding Hood?
  
• That thing needed to cast the curse?  The heart of something she loves, which turns out to be her servant/Father named Henry.  So yes, her adopted son is named after the father she murdered with her own hands.
  
• Speaking of Henry, The Queen doesn't know his lineage, but guess who set up the adoption?  Here's a hint - he goes by "Mr Gold" now.
  
• BTW: the Magic Mirror is introduced, and he's currently the editor on The Storybrooke Daily Mirror. 
  
• it may not have been smart, but the scene with the apple tree and the chainsaw was kinda satisfying 
  
• You know, I know teachers' salaries are bad, but Snow's house?  Geez!
  

[Mr. Hamrick]

RE: the Horrible Place

Well, they are in Maine.  One of my friends refers to it at the worst place he's ever lived so maybe they're onto something .

Finally got around to episode 2, and to my surprise, some of the questions I had in the first episode were answered!  Plus a whole lotta new information is presented...

Spoiler

some thoughts:

• So the reason the curse took so long is that the Evil Queen had to retrieve it from the Wicked Fairy, perform it, get it wrong, find out why, THEN perform it again.
  
• Speaking of curses, turns out Rumpelstiltskin created this fairytale WMD.  When he tells the Queen what she needs to cast it, he also makes sure that a) he has a place of power in the new world,and b) she has to do whatever he says as long as he says "please".  Oh boy...
  
• Why was the Wicked Queen so stubborn about casting this thing?  Because somehow, Snow White was responsible for an unnamed male's death.  I suspect this was the Huntsman originally sent to kill Snow, but  if that is the case, then who's the sheriff?  Maybe the woodsman from Red Riding Hood?
  
• That thing needed to cast the curse?  The heart of something she loves, which turns out to be her servant/Father named Henry.  So yes, her adopted son is named after the father she murdered with her own hands.
  
• Speaking of Henry, The Queen doesn't know his lineage, but guess who set up the adoption?  Here's a hint - he goes by "Mr Gold" now.
  
• BTW: the Magic Mirror is introduced, and he's currently the editor on The Storybrooke Daily Mirror. 
  
• it may not have been smart, but the scene with the apple tree and the chainsaw was kinda satisfying 
  
• You know, I know teachers' salaries are bad, but Snow's house?  Geez!
  

Bigger question I have:

Spoiler

Does this mean the "Evil Queen" is no longer the "Evil Queen" as she would be beholden to whatever "Mr. Gold" asks?  Or is "Mr. Gold" more of the "gray" one here.

[Glitch Girl]

Robert Carlyle seems to be making a career out of playing morally ambiguous characters (Prof. Rush anyone?).  And he's always fun to watch, especially when he gets to get his crazy on in the flashbacks.

Spoiler

That said, I think that the Evil Queen is still very evil, but doesn't realize how precarious her position of power is due to the promise she made to Rumpelstiltskin to get the curse.  Thing is, she's a lousy manipulator - she just scares people into doing her bidding and lacks any kind of subtle nuances.

And as for Mr. Gold, I'd say there's a 99.999% chance that he remembers everything from before since he created the blasted curse in the first place (and it'd be a poor planner to not have an out for himself).  Unlike the queen, he's patient and I suspect is a far better manipulator.  Question is, of course, to what end?

[Mr. Hamrick]

Robert Carlyle seems to be making a career out of playing morally ambiguous characters (Prof. Rush anyone?).  And he's always fun to watch, especially when he gets to get his crazy on in the flashbacks.

Spoiler

That said, I think that the Evil Queen is still very evil, but doesn't realize how precarious her position of power is due to the promise she made to Rumpelstiltskin to get the curse.  Thing is, she's a lousy manipulator - she just scares people into doing her bidding and lacks any kind of subtle nuances.

And as for Mr. Gold, I'd say there's a 99.999% chance that he remembers everything from before since he created the blasted curse in the first place (and it'd be a poor planner to not have an out for himself).  Unlike the queen, he's patient and I suspect is a far better manipulator.  Question is, of course, to what end?

Spoiler

I'm quite sure Mr. Gold remembers everything, too.  Especially given the end of the episode.

Something occurred to me after re-watching the second episode.

Spoiler

The Queen's whole purpose for placing the curse was to "take away everyone's happy ending" and has she said in the second episode
because she wanted to be happy.  Is she?  It certainly seemed like she wasn't happy even prior to Emma's arrival.  She might have been but something tells me that the curse didn't work exactly like she had expected.

Furthermore.

Spoiler

She IS absolutely a lousy manipulator once you get past any sort of manipulation through fear.  This was proven in the fairly tale world and in Storybrooke.  Ol' Rumpelstiltskin manipulated her easily with regards to the curse.  It makes me wonder who else might have manipulated her.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

And Once Upon a time has a full season pickup.  Good for it, it is a very high quality well written family friendly show.

[Glitch Girl]

Wow, that was fast.  Good to hear too.

As for Grimm, as of episode 2...

Spoiler

Aunt Marie is finally dead, though it took all episode and unless I'm mistaken, what finally offed her was not the fake priest with the scalpel, but simple over-exertion.  And even though she lingered for quite a while, her only advice was cryptic as usual  (well, except for the part about there being other Grimms, even though they don't talk much).  You'd think that if this Grimm thing runs in the family, she MIGHT have told her charge something BEFORE NOW? 

Sorry, this really annoys me.

Anyway, the main plot of this episode starts when two of the dumbest housebreakers get into a nice house, mooch off the place, and then try to leave when someone comes home; however, only one of them gets out.  The other (the girl of the couple) goes to the police and events are set in motion to meet a family of bear men (again, not going to even try to spell the actual term for them, pretty sure it's german) who's house has been broken into and we find out that some of these darker races cling to the old ways more than others (ie: mom's more of a traditionalist than dad is), as the missing housebreaker is going to be used in a coming-of-age hunt.

Again, Eddie the big bad wolf continues to be the most interesting character, especially when he's drafted into guarding Marie after the previous attempt on her life.  Call me twisted, but the whole arm thing was amusing.

OTOH, the rest of the supporting cast leaves me very flat.  Heck, the girlfriend might as well not even be in the show, she's that incidental.  The partner doesn't really do anything for me either, and the baddies are  so far one-note villains.  FYI: Blond-demon girl makes another appearance, and is featured in the preview for next week.

In truth, the show's really not working for me.  I'm going to give it one more episode now that the status quo's pretty firmly established to see if there's hope, but at the rate it's going, probably won't be sticking with it.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

It does have flaws, but Grimm has a certain charm too, and I do like the whole twisted modern fairy tale thing.  I'm wondering what they will do once they run out of fairy tales.  So far we have Red Riding Hood and Goldilocks.

Also, it's pulling in pretty good ratings, especially for a Friday show.  I doubt it's going anywhere.

It still isn't half as good as Once Upon a Time is, although they are very different shows so it isn't really a fair comparison.

[Previsionary]

There are a lot of fairy tales out there, and many ways of telling them. It'll be a few years before they run out of them, I'm sure. They might run out of well known ones to Americans, maybe.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I just checked, and once Upon a Time's ratings are about 12 million so far.  That's incredible for Sunday nights especially.  No wonder they ordered a full season

[Mr. Hamrick]

After Sunday's episode of "Once Upon a Time", I am even more convinced that...

Spoiler

the Evil Queen's curse was only the start of things and that both she and Mr. Gold still have their memories of their world pre-curse.  I think the Sheriff has some sort of inkling that something is amiss.   More importantly, I think the Evil Queen KNOWS something backfired with that curse.  I may be reading too much into what were meant as a few throwaway lines but there seems to be hints being dropped.   

highly amused at

Spoiler

Emma Swan moving back in with her mom who looks younger than she does.  (Ginnifer Goodwin is actually a year older, though.)   It was expected but still amusing.

Are their legit "sides" or "factions" forming?  There seems to be but this could just be a coincidence. 

Spoiler

#1 The Clear Good guys- Emma Swan, Mary Blanchard/Snow White, Henry,

#2 The Clear Bad guys - The Mayor/Evil Queen, Mr. Gold, The Mirror, "Catherine" (think that was the woman introduced Sunday as a love rival to Mary/Snow for "Prince Charming".

#3 Caught between 1 and 2 for one reason or another - Sheriff Graham, Archie/Jimminy Cricket, Granny, Ruby - Though I think both Sheriff Graham and Archie want to side with Mary and Emma, The Mayor has them in an odd position.   Prince Charming / John Doe belongs here too because he is suffering from memory loss. 

Also, finally figured out where I had seen Emma Swan before... she was Chase on House.

I'm really enjoying this show more than I expected to.

[Glitch Girl]

I missed part of the preview for next week: did they give the blond's fairytale character name? 

My thoughts on the episode

Spoiler

James/Prince Charming and Snow White's story was fun.  Snow was quite the daring one once.  I find it interesting that the fairy tale princess the prince was engaged to appears to be another notable heroine (judging from the preview - I THOUGHT they said Cinderella, but that wouldn't make sense with Rumpelstiltskin, so it may have been another name - depending on the version you read, the girl in that story was trapped by either her own vanity or that of her mother)  and that didn't turn out so well. 

No Mr Gold this episode, but looks like they're going to make up for that in the next.  Cool.

I'm kinda glad the trolls were a practical effect and not CG.   

Thing about James is that he was dying when the curse took effect, ended up in a coma and now he's awake.  We never really get to hear what he remembers.  Makes me wonder.

Regarding Snow's history with the Queen - Snow acknowledges she is the one who ruined the Queen's life - whatever happened might have still been an accident, but Snow feels responsible in some way.  The mysterious dead love-of-the-queen's-life is still unknown, but my theory that he was the huntsman is on shakey ground after Snow mentions that the Huntsman let her go, implying that their parting was peaceful.  It also makes me think the sheriff is the former huntsman.

Dr. Wild... I wonder who he used to be.

Emma's living with mom... awwww...

The bit with the shirt... I knew the Mayor was going to notice.  Cute.

Didn't Emma have an uncanny ability to tell when people were lying in the pilot?  What was it doing when the former wife showed up and told her story? 

Regarding factions

Spoiler

I think you're somewhat limiting things by lumping the Mayor with Mr. Gold.  At the moment, they're... well, not exactly allies, but at least on the same page, but that can't last.  Gold's got some kind of agenda, it's just a question of to what end.

I think the Mirror's alliance with the Mayor is shakier than you may think.  Call it a gut feeling. 

Oh, and you forgot the lawn gnome from the previous episode 

[Mr. Hamrick]

I missed part of the preview for next week: did they give the blond's fairytale character name? 

My thoughts on the episode

Spoiler

James/Prince Charming and Snow White's story was fun.  Snow was quite the daring one once.  I find it interesting that the fairy tale princess the prince was engaged to appears to be another notable heroine (judging from the preview - I THOUGHT they said Cinderella, but that wouldn't make sense with Rumpelstiltskin, so it may have been another name - depending on the version you read, the girl in that story was trapped by either her own vanity or that of her mother)  and that didn't turn out so well. 

No Mr Gold this episode, but looks like they're going to make up for that in the next.  Cool.

I'm kinda glad the trolls were a practical effect and not CG.   

Thing about James is that he was dying when the curse took effect, ended up in a coma and now he's awake.  We never really get to hear what he remembers.  Makes me wonder.

Regarding Snow's history with the Queen - Snow acknowledges she is the one who ruined the Queen's life - whatever happened might have still been an accident, but Snow feels responsible in some way.  The mysterious dead love-of-the-queen's-life is still unknown, but my theory that he was the huntsman is on shakey ground after Snow mentions that the Huntsman let her go, implying that their parting was peaceful.  It also makes me think the sheriff is the former huntsman.

Dr. Wild... I wonder who he used to be.

Emma's living with mom... awwww...

The bit with the shirt... I knew the Mayor was going to notice.  Cute.

Didn't Emma have an uncanny ability to tell when people were lying in the pilot?  What was it doing when the former wife showed up and told her story? 

Regarding factions

Spoiler

I think you're somewhat limiting things by lumping the Mayor with Mr. Gold.  At the moment, they're... well, not exactly allies, but at least on the same page, but that can't last.  Gold's got some kind of agenda, it's just a question of to what end.

I think the Mirror's alliance with the Mayor is shakier than you may think.  Call it a gut feeling. 

Oh, and you forgot the lawn gnome from the previous episode 

I don't think the "faction thing" is necessarily intended to come off the way it kinda does.  It just struck me a quirky thing and I suspect it will be broken down over time.

Oh!  And I ALWAYS try to forget lawn gnomes.  They creep me out a bit. 

[Glitch Girl]

Grimm:
We get more cryptic warnings, when it'd be SO much easier for people to come right out and say stuff, and bees.  Lots of bees....

Spoiler

Someone is using flash mobs to mask killings by injecting their victim with bee venom (ie: stinging them, but we're not supposed to know that initially).  The murderers are targeting a trio of lawyers from some firm, which as it happens, includes our blond demon girl.  In the final confrontation, the queen bee-woman says she's trying to warn our hero the Grimm about someone who's coming before she gets shot as she tries to kill aforementioned demon girl.

Once again, the show doesn't seem to know what to do with it's supporting cast.  Token girlfriend gets to patch up hero's partner,a nd said partner manages to hit new levels of obliviousness - there's something painfully obviously wrong going on between the lawyer and his partner, like major bad vibes, yet  he never asks about it (unless I missed that scene), and even leaves them alone together despite the tensions.    Eddie is also woefully underused in this episode.

[Glitch Girl]

Sorry for the doublepost, but here's some quick thoughts on the lastest OUAT...

For the record, the girl in the previews wasn't the same as the new blond character in the previous episode, my mistake.

And I think this makes it official that Rumpelstiltskin beats the Evil Queen for just plain EEEEEEEvil.   

Spoiler

We get Cinderella (and by odd extension, Rumpelstiltskin's) history.  In the past, Ella was visited by her fairy godmother, who was promptly killed IN FRONT OF HER by Rumpelstiltskin.  He still manages to strike a deal with Ella, getting her to the ball in exchange for something unnamed yet very valuable (you see where this is heading).

Ella marries the prince, gets pregnant, and Rumpelstiltskin fills her in on the rest of the deal.  She, her prince, and Snow & James come up with a plot to capture him and take away his powers by tricking him, but just after they capture him, Ella's prince vanishes, never to be seen again (at least in fairy tale world).

The Real World plot centers around a pregnant girl (guess who) who made a deal with Mr. Gold to sell her baby to give it a good home.  She has second thoughts and tries to get out of Storybrooke.  Mr Gold hires Emma to find her, not telling her about the baby deal.  She find the boyfriend (Ella's prince) who stopped seeing her (at his dad's orders) and later the terms of Gold's deal and becomes more determined to find the girl because of her own maternal history.  She finds the girl at the edge of town (because bad things happen to people who try to leave apparently), and rushes her to the hospital to give birth.  Emma confronts Gold, and ends up making a deal for him to leave the baby alone in exchange for... an unnamed favor.

Oh that's going to end well. 
 
In the end, the girl and her boyfriend/prince are reunited (awwww), Emma decides to start setting up roots in the town by taking the Sheriff's offer of a job, Henry manages to evade his mom's wrath for being out all day against her wishes, and things in general are looking up.

Also of note, the mayor is sleeping with the town sheriff (almost positive he's the Huntsman now).

Robert Carlyle is so much fun to watch in this show -whether he's the elven trickster or the cold calculating pawnbroker of the real world, he's just...fun.

New ep in two weeks, this one promises more with Dr. Hopper. 

[Viking]

I find myself very much wishing that Mr. Gold would run afoul of the U.S. legal system and its interpretation of unconscionable  and vague contracts.

Spoiler

I am also curious, however, as to whether Rumpelstiltskin ever directly lies, or whether he merely deceives by omitting major details.  When he toasted the Fairy Godmother, he said that her wand was evil, and that its magic would invoke a price.  That leaves me wondering - was he telling the truth?  And if so, would the price have been any worse coming from the Fairy Godmother than it could possibly have been coming from Rumpelstiltskin?

For some reason, this show reminds me of the comic book series, Fables, in which classic fairy tale characters are also living in the mundane world (albeit for vastly different reasons).  And the sheriff in that community is Bigby Wolf, i.e., the Big Bad Wolf in human form.

[Mr. Hamrick]

And I think this makes it official that Rumpelstiltskin beats the Evil Queen for just plain EEEEEEEvil.   

Told you so! 

And I am still willing to go a step further and say that The Mayor is more indebted to Mr. Gold than she realizes or remembers.

The question I am wondering is if Mr. Gold/Rumplestiskin is in debt to any one or working with (or on behalf) of anyone.  He's a manipulator and to some extent a con man.  And this feels like a two person con.

[deano_ue]

ok i'm interested in this, they sound decent

grimm starts in the uk next jan, any word or when once upon a time is shipping across


also i take it that the whole thing is kinda disney based with some sites reporting characters like Malifecent and belle are coming into the story

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Once Upon a Time is made by ABC's own studios, which are part of the Disney family, and as a result, yes, they do use stuff from the Disney cartoons.  In particular, the same names are used for most of the characters (Belle, Malfecent, Grumpy, Doc, and so forth.)

[Mr. Hamrick]

Belle is confirmed for later in the season though the capacity is unknown. 

Another Disney staple, Jimminy Cricket, has already been introduced in episode 1, not to mention Maleficient was in episode 2.  So, the inclusion of Disney characters shouldn't be a surprise given that ABC is owned by Disney.

[deano_ue]

honestly though i just seen pics of Maleficient, seriously how the hell do you mess up that look.

if you have the rights to use the name, backstory and aspects of the character why not the look

[Glitch Girl]

Grimm's latest episode, a very loose take on Blue Beard, managed to advance the B-plot a touch (the police chief is keeping Nick alive for some reason, and is pretty much the supernatural godfather of this town), and had a few creepy elements.  This, however was not  enough to counteract some amazingly dumbness from Nick's partner, who is IMO too stupid to live, too lucky to die.  And how did the beastman-of-the-week manage to get a bed & breakfast license (possibly multiple times) under assumed names, especially in this day and age?  Eddie was the one bright spot, but even that was way too short.  And once again, the writers remind us that yes, Nick has a girlfriend, not that that seems to matter - she really doesn't seem to serve a purpose in regards to the overall narrative.

I know the show is taking a break for a while, but I don't think I'll be coming back to it.  It's just not working for me at all, which is a shame because the premise isn't a bad one, it's just poorly executed.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I think part of the problem here is creating a situation where Nick's supporting cast are completely and totally unable to have anything to do with each other, meaning each can only have a few seconds of time apiece.

How would I solve this? Kill off the partner and replace him with a new character who is a supernatural character.  Now the new character can actually be a partner, and they would be able to know about and consent to Eddie's involvement.

The girlfriend should probably just be killed off too at this point.

My biggest problem with the show though is if you pulled out the supernatural elements, most of the episodes would actually still work as, say, Criminal Minds episodes.  Nick doesn't need to be a Grimm to solve everything, and the creature can be human and still be doing the same thing.  Serial killer who preys on girls wearing red?  I've seen wierder on CM.  Family with a murderous coming of age ritural?  Same thing.  Seducer who keeps women in cages until he impregnates them?  Again, fist CM just fine.

So what's the points of the premise at all here?

EDIT:  Grimm just got a full season pick up.  Not surprising given it's high for Friday ratings.

[Mr. Hamrick]

Sunday's episode of "Once Upon a Time" has me puzzled.

Spoiler

1) What does Mr. Gold gain from manipulating David?  I suspect this will all be detailed further but what does he gain from David staying with Kathryn in Storybrooke?

also

Spoiler

Is the Doctor Whale a character from the other world?  The name "Whale" could be a reference to the Whale in Pinnochio but that's almost too big of a stretch.  I would suspect that casting David Anders would mean that the character is meant to be someone from that other world.  Plus, he is running interference with Ms. Snow Blanchard so I really kinda wonder if he is. 

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Okay, that was rather a good one. Also I was actually starting to feel sympathy for the Mayor, but now...

Spoiler

So this big evil deed that Snow White did was to spill some kind of secret?  Must be a doozy of a secret, but I still can't see how that could be anything other than over reacting.

And Graham was so close!  He even had the right idea--a secret door.  At least now it seems that Emma has the ability to restore memories of the fairy tale world, although hopefully not always through kissing.  That could get rather awkward, especially in certain cases.

I definitely think to queen was stupid for picking my honorable hunter for the job though.  I mean really, how could that not go wrong?