DC Comics Reboot

[daglob]

Read the first two issues, and find myself wanting more.

Of course, I've also read The Shadow in the Twilight Zone...

[detourne_me]

yeah I ctually subscribed to it on Comixology.  I only regularly read 4 or 5 comics now. Walking Dead, Saga, Paper Girls and this, Future Quest. Nothing else really tickles my fancy....  but I have been itching to catch up on the Mike Allred Silver Surfer stuff.

[HarryTrotter]

I thought there would be a bit more activity here post Rebirth...
Im maybe judging it a too early(just 3 issues in),but Tom Kings Batman was way better then I expected.It carries some retro charm,without really trying too hard for it.I guess any story with Psycho-Pirate has a bit of a retro feel.
I could say the same thing for Detective Comics.Worked way better then I expected.

[HarryTrotter]

http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135868-sdcc-dc-launching-new-hanna-barbera-verse-title-by-garth-ennis.html
Wait,wait...Dick Dastardly ongoing by Garth Ennis?Seriously?

[bat1987]

Post rebirth Bat family stuff has been great. Tom King is doing fun stuff in the main tittle, and I gotta say Finch's artwork hasn't looked this good in forever. Detective is a fantastic read, love the team dynamic, Tynion got every character's voice down. Still not sure of Clayface on the team, but time will tell.

The biggest surprise of all? Scott Lobdell's Red Hood and the Outlaws. The rebirth issue came out this week , and it's probably best Jason Todd story in a good while. Some great moments between Jason and Bruce, they streamlined Jason's origin and return. Final page is fantastic.

[HarryTrotter]

Clayface: Its carving time!
I think that the biggest surprise this week was Deathstroke Rebirth.It really set up some promising stuff.

[Silver Shocker]

I found that thing I got out of reading spoilers for All-New Batman was that Gentleman Ghost showed up, though I admit that's strictly because I'm an unabashed fan of Batman: Brave and the Bold and he was used extensively there. As for the Fury Road thing: meh. I'm read it when the trade or hardcover comes out and it'll probably be really good. Romita Jr. looked decent.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to say I actually really like the Snickers ad. I guess some people hate it, probably in no small part because they're still sour over that baffling Twix ad, but I actually really get a kick out of it, precisely because the only DC I read currently is Action Comics (which I really like by the way) and the ad basically tries to trick you into thinking it's just a scene from the book. And it's kind of an amusing twist on the tried-and-true premise of the tv spots (anyone here see that one with the Joker? Nice try, but just didn't stick the landing). I'll fully admit skimming it down to one page instead of several as of the latest issue was probably for the best.

Anyone hear about the new Superwoman book? Crazy.

Spoiler

The very first issue kills off the New 52 Lois Lane.

Man, Rebirth is just insane. I don't think I've ever seen a company/series/franchise so vigorously tear down everything they've been stubbornly maintaining for the past few years and basically go "yeah, you're right, these last few years sucked. Let's just bring back the stuff you liked in the first place." And i'm kinda loving it! 

[HarryTrotter]

No spoilers,its been at least a week since any of the events.
Im still kinda lost as to where the Watchmen plot will continue.I would assume Titans,since they are searching for the person who took Wally's memories.With Mr. Oz being in AC.Batman seems to have forgoten about Comedians badge.
Its nice that the governmant decided to do something about Gotham.But its a plan involving two near-Superman-level beings,Psycho Pirate and Hugo Strange;did they really expected it to end well.Btw Amanda Waller is now closer to her pre-Flashpoint version.
Dan DiDio and Jim Lee have been giving a lot of interviews lately;and you just gotta love the attitude "we just came here and started fixing this",not like they were here for the past 5-6 years,right?Also DiDio(of all people) pointed out recently that the sales,in the whole industry,have never been lower and that the only way to survive is to bring in new readers.

[Silver Shocker]

Not sure what you mean, if you mean Superwoman, it came out this week. If there were spoilers out early for that particular comic it's because reddit/4chan/Bleeding Crap/whoever leaked them, and I'm never going to legitimize them. Mind you, I imagine the chances anyone on this board is reading Superwoman is probably slim to none.

If you meant that I didn't need to put the general comments about Rebirth under the cut, that's true. I just didn't think of that. I just wanted to comment on the Superwoman thing and ended up going on a tangent.

If you mean All-Star Batman, that also came out this week. I saw it at the store myself. In all fairness, the "spoilers" I read were actually just an IGN review, so whatever. Plus "a bunch of Batman villains show up in a Batman/Two Face team up Mad Max homage" isn't a spoiler at all since that was the premise and they've been upfront about that. The more "shocking" development is some business involving Alfred that I imagine will be quite interesting when the story gets a little further along. So yes, I didn't really need to call it a spoiler, that's just what the article I was looking at said. I just wanted to say I liked Gentlemen Ghost.

If you mean major Rebirth events, the Superwoman thing was the only thing I've heard of lately. Haven't finished Action Comics yet, but there's not a lot to say. They fight Doomsday. It's fun, but until "Mr. Oz" gets off his throne and does something there's not much to discuss other than me saying Segovia's probably the weakest of the 3 artists.

Yeah, I don't know where the Watchmen stuff is going to pop again. I think I read the stuff with Joker is going to be handled in Tom King's Batman book? I only just realized how weird it is that DC doesn't already have some high-profile event book announced, unlike Marvel, where you know what the next event book is going to be before the current one's even done. Count your blessings I guess?

Shame, if all the good stuff was all in one book with as strong a creative team as the DC Rebirth one-shot, I'd buy it. I only picked up Action because the stuff with Luthor spun out of John's Justice League, I really liked that, and I liked Action's creative team, but I find the whole thing interesting so it worked out.

What DiDio's saying is true, but I guess the real surprise is he actually admitted it. I'm really sure what their solution is. 10 years ago or so the tactic was try to draw in the manga-reading crowd. That seems to run its course. Marvel's trying to have a level of synergy with the movies; I've never heard any actual indication that worked.  If nothing else, having Superman, Doomsday and Wonder Woman in Action the same year as Batman V Superman feels like synergy, even if the original Death of Superman being on Clark and Lois' mind is a big part of the book. What's odd is DC's strategy right now is all about placating the older fans. Is bringing back older story elements something newer fans would even find appealing? With the internet and review shows on Youtube and such it's easy to find out about older stories, but does that translate to sales for newcomers? See, this is why I don't work in marketing.

[HarryTrotter]

No,I meant,Im not tagging spoilers since its been a while since the stuff I talked about came out,and people here can be sensitive about spoilers.I assume that the involvement of Watchmen in the regular DCU is common knowledge by now.And I mentioned stuff from Batman,which is also a week or two old.So nothing aimed at you.

Just the general vibe I picked up,but it seems to be working.Looks like (at least) some fans are returning.Did it bring any new readers?Hard to tell.Rebirth(the issue itself) required solid knowledge of DC history,but the regular series are pretty easy to jump into.

[Silver Shocker]

See, it'd be one thing if killing off New 52 Superman and replacing him with Pre-Flashpoint Superman was this low-key thing, so as not to confuse people, but in Action they bring up his Pre-Flashpoint experiences constantly. You can't read Action without being reminded that this Superman isn't "this world's" Superman, and that he comes from a "different" world, with a different Doomsday, and it just goes on like that. Yeah, I understand all of it, but what the heck are new readers going to think? I wouldn't be surprised if someone read it and went "Wait, is he the Superman from Batman v Superman?", which admittedly, would be pretty funny.

[HarryTrotter]

Which is a bit odd,considering this is the pre-Flashpoint universe,just that people lost memories of it.So he should be "their" Superman.
Like I said,that confrontation with Dr. M needs to happen.He has some explaining to do.

[BentonGrey]

It's hilarious that DiDio is talking about how low sales are and bringing in new readers, because that is exactly what Marvel and DC have constantly demonstrated they have ZERO interest in.  They can put out as many new number ones as they want, but when they're all geared for 30 year old fanboys, they're not going to be bringing in any new readers.  The only future of the industry lies with kids, and they just aren't printing books that are kid friendly.  All of their big books are full of content that no self-respecting parent would let their children read, and they are inaccessible even if parents are willing to let kids try them.

I let my friend's kids borrow my comics from time to time, and they just devour them.  The love and the interest is there, but the access and the appropriate new material isn't.

[HarryTrotter]

I was gonna mention their HB line,but then I realised its geared more towards adults who liked them as kids,then the current kids.
Just for the sake of argument,I dont really see anything that bad in mainstream books.Outside maybe a joke or two that kids wouldnt get.
But I do agree that DC(and everyone else) could be doing more to attract new readers.It remains to be see if DiDio really had an enlightment.

[BentonGrey]

The level of violence and gore alone in many of the books is higher than I'd be comfortable with, not to mention a general moral laxness or even failing in most "heroes."  Part of this is just a reflection of our culture at large, but there's definitely a far too common trend of attempting to make stories 'mature' by amping up the sex and violence in them.  Now, this is my take on the current situation, but, to be fair, I'm reading a grand total of one modern mainstream book.  Nonetheless, I keep pretty well abreast of what's going on through reading the discussions on here and in general keeping my ear to the ground where comics are concerned.  Nothing I hear makes me think it's a safe medium for kids. 

[HarryTrotter]

Again,for the sake of argument,Marvel and DC have rating systems,and have ratings printed on the covers.For Example Deadpool #11(16+),Batman #7(13+).So parents should check it before they give it to their kids.
Another example;Invincible fits pretty much everything you describe,but parents should know better then to buy Invincible for their kids.And its Image,so they can get away with stuff you couldnt find in Superman.
My point being,there isnt too many of them,but there are titles aimed at children.Even if not a whole lot of them are in the superhero genre.
I assume one mainstream title you follow is Aquaman?How is Abnett doing btw?

[Silver Shocker]

So no idea about the sales, but Marvel does publish comics based on all of their current cartoons. They also regularly original stories based on the same, for free, on Marvelkids.com. So you can't say they aren't making some effort.

Benton, can't speak for anyone else, but I just turned thirty. I've been picking up the books since I was in junior high. My first regular DC title was Identity Crisis. And I dunno, maybe it's because one of my childhood favorite movies was Terminator 2 and I grew up watching James Bond movies with my dad, but I never really thought much of the violence, sexual references and disturbing content in the books. I mean, I'm not going to pretend the way Black Adam killed Psycho Pirate in Infinite Crisis wasn't messed up (actually it's a lot like a certain memorable scene in Game of Thrones) but I've always kind of shrugged off the violence in John's books as "Oh, that Geoff Johns". I mean Risk from the Titans got his arm ripped by Superboy Prime. Twice. That's some dark humor right there. It's only in recent years, that I lost my taste for such things by a marginal degree. I mean, it's not really a deterrent for me if the stories are good enough. I wouldn't be able to watch Game of Thrones if that were the case.

Talking about jokes the kids won't get, I point you in the direction of Star Lord's "Jackson Pollock" reference in the Guardians of the Galaxy film.

Benton, not trying to be a jerk here, nor I am disputing that DC and to a MUCH lesser extent, Marvel, don't take it a bit too far with the violence. But I think you're not giving kids enough credit. Ten years ago Marvel and DC wanted to try to get the Manga crowd because "that's what the kids read these days". Did they even know what kinda stuff they put in manga? Even the Pokemon manga has stuff that would raise your eyebrows. Hell, Death Note, a series explicitly about the police trying to catch a supernaturally powered serial killer, ran in Shonen Jump. Which means it was aimed at twelve to fifteen year olds.

For comparison's sake, Benton, if you don't mind me asking, do you find the content in Zelda or Pokemon objectionable as kids' games?

[HarryTrotter]

Just a correction on my previous post.DC ratings are E,T,T+,M meaning everyone,teen,teen and older,mature.And not in years,but just saying,there is a system.
Anyway,kids today(yes,Im old) spend 23 hours a day playing Call of Duty and GTA Online(is that still a thing?),Avatar Press wouldn't phase them,let alone mainstream superheroics.And they probably hear worst language in school then they could ever read in any comic.

[Silver Shocker]

Yep, I was actually tempted to mention those vulgar kids playing Call of Duty on X-Box Live.
Also, if I may be so bold, I believe the book Benton is referring to is IDW's TMNT.
Speaking of which, Benton, if I may be so bold again, do you consider the content in the 2003 (4Kids) and 2012 (Nicktoons) TMNT to be acceptable for children?

On the topic of the ratings, I meant to mention, I actually observed Marvel bump up the ratings for a few books from "All Ages" to "Teen +" because they realized "Oh snap, there's too much sex in these books". Amazing Spider-Man had mentions to Peter and Carlie having sex around the time of Spider-Island, and they bumped it up. X-Men had references to Rogue sleeping with Magneto, and her thoughts about sex at one point accidentally got broadcast to everyone at the school (can't remember how) and she had to do a "walk of shame" (no, not the one from Game of Thrones). It got bumped up. Avengers Acadamy showed Hank Pym and Tigra in bed, literally in mid-coitus. It got bumped. And you know what? I feel that was the right call in all three cases.

[HarryTrotter]

I just assumed it was something DC related,because of the topic at hand.Superhero books at Big 2 being suitable for kids or not?
I had to say what everyone meant,anyway(about CoD).Im not telling anyone how to raise their kids or anything;but I think parents have to pay attention to what they are buying to their kids(ratings I just mention).If you find superheroes inappropriate buy something else.Like (not apocalyptic) Scooby Doo for example.Or Looney Toones.
Interesting how you can get away with a whole lot of violence,but any mention of sex drives the ratings up incredibly fast.Kinda like the Killing Joke case recently.

[Silver Shocker]

Yeah, and a lot of people thought the R rating for Killing Joke was B.S. As I said when they first announced the movie, the original story is largely devoid of action, so of course they had to add some in, even during the actual Killing Joke segment with Batman fighting some Joker minions. I should point out I rented it digitally from my local cable provider over the tv, and here in Canada it was a PG. But then Canada has always had more lenient content restrictions for tv and movies, though when I was a kid they weren't allowed to have cartoons with "War" in the title, and so Beast Wars became "Beasties".

On the "sex vs. violence" bit, yeah, that comes up all the time. Remember when the New 52 launched (omg we're actually talking about the DC comics now! ) Nobody kvetched about Joker's face getting cut off or Red Hood shooting people up, it was Catwoman banging Batman and an even more sex-ed-up Starfire that grew the most controversy. Some morons in the mainstream media thought it was a good idea to show those comics to, like, 5 year-olds at school just make their point. I think the kids said it was "gross." Cuz, you know, boys that age think girls have "the cooties".

Along a similar line, one of the reasons I can't STAND Robert Kirkman is he gloated in an Invincible letters page about how they could put in the blood and entrails they wanted, but would get slapped with an M rating if they showed a nipple. Umm, it should be rated mature anyways. Yet when it came time for Kirkman to throw shade at Marvel for a certain infamous scene in Siege, he threw that argument under the bus by saying "Invincible's nothing like that. It's always been for mature readers and everyone understands that." Despite no age rating on the book whatsoever, and many of the covers giving no indication of the content within.

The thing about the cartoons, like Batman TAS, Justice League, Young Justice, ect, is they knew they could never be as violent as the modern comics, and a lot of the stuff they wanted to do got them flak from the censors, so they had to get clever with the storytelling. A lot of times that worked out better (though in the case of the 90's Spider-Man a lot of people remember it getting silly "plasma" and all that. But we are talking Spider-Man here). You could argue that the modern comics and a lot of the newer DC animated movies get a bit lazy. Just throw a lot of violence and some swearing in there and you're golden. It worked when they did "Red Hood" but after that I found it got kinda ho-hum. The most fun for me was just being to laugh at the bluntness of it all, like the New Gods sequence in Gods and Monsters ("Yep, he's dead all right!")

IDW's got plenty of stuff that *should* ( I say should because I haven't read them myself) be fine for kids. My Little Pony, Littlest Pet Shop, Grumpy Cat, Jem and the Holograms. Archie has Sonic and Mega Man. I assume that stuff's fine. I just read the tie-in comic to the new Transformers cartoon (which itself was toned down for the kiddies compared to the much darker and violent TF Prime) and that's fine for kids. It's got TF references for the hardcore fans but the actual stories are every bit as innocuous as the cartoon it's based on.

That being said, DO NOT buy the G.I. Joe and main Transformers comics for your kids. I think we're all aware of that. Those are clearly written for the older fans. I've heard IDW's More Than Meets the Eye and Robots In Disguise comics described as "the Battlestar Galactica (that's the rebooted one) of Transformers comics" and that's about right based on the volumes I've read.

The Ghostbusters comic is also in line with the movies. It's got some mild innuendos, but nothing that kids will understand anyway. I've watched Ghostbusters like million times and it took me years to understand some of the stuff Venkman was saying, but when I did I just liked the movie more "That's the bedroom, but nothing every happened there." "What. A. Crime."

[HarryTrotter]

Bit late to comment Red Hood and the Outlaws,but I remember the reactions to Starfires re-imagining.Lobdell later tried to explain it myriad of ways,but he never quite dug himself out of that.

Kirkman is a huge fan of Rob Liefeld and 90's Image in general so that was to be expected.He also lampshaded  the trend numerous time in the comic,thru the writer of Science Dog(a comic that main character follows)."We had to do something shocking to keep the readers attention.We were running close to 100 issues,and people were starting to lose interest:"Btw,Kirkman hasnt been writing Invincible in some time now.But I agree,the comic is for mature audience.On the other hand,other Image series have no problem showing frontal male nudity(just for reference),so this is pretty much nothing.
Well,Transformers are not for kids more because of adult themes then violence or sex.And maybe wink-wink-gay robots will bother some people.

In the category of kids titles-Bone.Yeah,thats my recommendation.Also,isnt DC publishing some Superfriends related stuff right now?I assume that would be okay.

[Silver Shocker]

Yeah, when I said the Transformers comics by IDW aren't for kids, I didn't mean they were overly violent or raunchy or anything like that. What I meant is they're more "intrigue" and less "fun". They don't really pander to kids for yucks. The ones I read took place entirely on Cybertron, with no kids in sight. And since they're not video games like the War for Cybertron games, there was more emphasis on character dynamics and action and shooting.

I'd love to see a revived Sam & Max comic by IDW. That seems like it'd be a no-brainer. Sadly, after Telltales Games made their Walking Dead game and the various properties after that one, Sam & Max seems to have been once again forgotten across all mediums.

Going back to DC, they've also done comics based on Teen Titans Go, and DC Super Hero Girls. I know they did digital comic versions, but I'm not sure if they ever did print versions.

[HarryTrotter]

To get back to the very start,I think DiDio meant they should try to bring in fans of superhero movies and TV shows.Being the same guy who said that DC publishes comics for 40-year olds, a few year back,I doubt he had kids in mind as new readers.

[BentonGrey]

Freaking board!  So, I tried to post this last night in response to Spade's comment, quoted below, but the board died on me and wouldn't let me.  Of course, the conversation has moved on, but I still wanted to share these thoughts.

Again,for the sake of argument,Marvel and DC have rating systems,and have ratings printed on the covers.For Example Deadpool #11(16+),Batman #7(13+).So parents should check it before they give it to their kids.
Another example;Invincible fits pretty much everything you describe,but parents should know better then to buy Invincible for their kids.And its Image,so they can get away with stuff you couldnt find in Superman.
My point being,there isnt too many of them,but there are titles aimed at children.Even if not a whole lot of them are in the superhero genre.
I assume one mainstream title you follow is Aquaman?How is Abnett doing btw?

True Spade, but compare that to the Silver or Bronze Age, where kids could pick up any Marvel or DC book and get plugged in to an entire universe, any title of which they could dive right into without worry.  We've got the biggest selling point of superheroes completely walled off from kids: the shared universe.  Yeah, maybe they can read Superman this week, but they can't read Batman, or what have you.  Aren't most DC books rated at least T, for teen?  Maybe that's supposed to be a more accessible rating, but I know I wouldn't let a kid much younger than 14 read a lot of those books, and the golden age for kids and superheroes starts a good deal younger.  The question is not, 'are there comics kids can read,' it's 'how do we get new kids reading superhero comics.'  That needs a universe of characters and books to capture and fire a young person's imagination, and that we don't have.

At best, a huge proportion of the comic titles being published and the universe they represent is, on the face of it, unfit, unwelcoming, and inaccessible to young readers.  Even if they can read a particular book, they can't actually get plugged in to the wider universe, and with constant events and resets, that's more of a problem than it used to be.

In terms of what I'm reading, yeah, I'm following Aquaman.  I JUST about dropped it during that execrable run by Cullen Bunn, but since there was a light at the end of the tunnel and I quite liked Dan Abnett's writing in his novels (Gaunt's Ghosts series), I decided to wait it out.  I heard a great interview on the Aquaman that really showed that Abnett got the character, and that gave me a lot of hope.  I'm glad I endured because he's off to a great start!  All things being equal, I very much wish they had just brought the previous team back, as I think Jeff Parker was writing the best Aquaman comics of the last 30 or 40 years, but Abnett is doing a good job nonetheless.  He's focusing on the most interesting part of Aquaman's persona, the split between the land and the sea.  He's really playing that up in an interesting storyline and throwing some cool new pieces into the mythos. 

What's most important is that his characterization is excellent.  Aquaman is dead-on.  He's not a rage-aholic, not even a hot-head.  He's centered and even-keeled.  He's humble yet has an undeniable presence.  He's powerful, yet restrained.  He is dedicated to protecting life, not taking it, and he refuses to kill, absolutely refuses to, which is so ridiculously refreshing that it's a sad contrast to the wider trend.  He's even got a sense of humor.  In short, he's a likable, fun character, one that I am actually enjoying reading about.  That hasn't often been the case for him in the last SEVERAL years.  Parker did it, and now Abnett is doing it, and, honestly, he's putting even more effort into establishing the character AS a character.  At the same time, Mera also gets plenty of personality, a sense of humor, and depth.  She's more than just the 'warrior queen' which she's been relegated to for a while.  I think my favorite of the half dozen issues so far is one where the heroes and their friends just walk around a fair in a coastal town, having fun, talking to each other, and telling jokes. 

In short, he's writing fun, interesting, and heroic comic stories, something of a rarity in mainstream books these days.



Now, to respond to SS's comments, I should stress first that I have been talking about mainstream superhero comics.  Every month I'm reading some of the best comics ever written, as I've often said.  Many of them are kid friendly, and I often recommend series like Atomic Robo or TMNT to my friends with kids interested in comics.  Nonetheless, none of those amazing books I'm reading are mainstream (read: DC and Marvel) superhero books.  SS mentioned the books by IDW, and they are definitely making a lot of great, kid friendly stuff these days, no doubt about it.  Yet, that still doesn't address the future of the mainstream superhero books.  Yeah, maybe those kids will 'graduate' to reading DC and Marvel, but maybe they won't, as they won't have an investment in the characters and settings that many of us do.  From what I've observed personally, and from what I can tell from the market's numbers, that doesn't seem to be happening.

SS, you read books from a young age that I definitely would not be comfortable giving a child of mine.  I'm glad that you enjoyed them and that it worked out for you, but because we can do something doesn't necessarily mean we should.  Yeah, kids are exposed to a lot more these days than they were when I was a kid...but I'm far from convinced that's a good thing.  In fact, given what I've observed in the classroom as this new generation has begun to arrive, I'm pretty convinced that whatever we're doing as a culture isn't working out all that well.  Of course, I'm not fool enough to lay all or even most of that at the feet of violent video games and media.  Nonetheless, it's something that I wonder about.

To answer your question, SS, I don't know much of anything about Pokemon, but, in terms of the last Zelda game I played Twilight Princess, and the tiny bit of progress I made in it, I'd say that one seemed fine.  I can't remember anything in it that would raise an eyebrow, but it has been something like six or eight years since I played it.  For the TMNT 'toons, I don't remember the 2003 one that well, but what I've seen of the new one seems more or less fine, though they like their horror elements.  Once again, I haven't watched that much of it because I've found it disappointing.

The violence vs. sex issue is a fair one for sure, and a problem in our culture, but both of them are problematic for me in terms of the suitability of a story for kids.  And that makes the issue all the more crucial, because we've got a pretty lax attitude towards violence, even hyper, excessive violence.

[HarryTrotter]

@Benton I cant really argue with that.Things are a lot different then when I was starting with Thunderbolts and Ultimate Spiderman.But we are not catching that lighting again.I guess a new reader(of any age) would have a hard time breaking in because everything is self referential and continuity heavy.
Then again,I have no real frame of reference here,being a long time reader.And I dont have kids,so I cant say what would be appropriate for them.
In a sense that there is no good plug-in point for younger audience,I agree.For example,Earth One GNs are okay entry point for somewhat mature audience,but I wouldnt call them kid friendly.Thou that varies too.

[BentonGrey]

And remember, digital comics still haven't entirely taken off.  We're still in an age where comics themselves are physically inaccessible, hidden away in comic book stores.  Younger kids, even IF they know about comics, even IF they're interested, can't get there without adult help, and most mothers aren't going to set foot in a comic book store more than once.  From top to bottom, the medium in general, but ESPECIALLY the mainstream superhero companies, are cutting their own throats by keeping their product out of the hands of the only possible future readers.

[HarryTrotter]

Well,there is the distribution problem.The only reason to go into a comic shop is because you already have something to pick up there.
And like I said countless times before,its not about selling one comic to 20 people,its about selling 20 comics to 1 person.

[kkhohoho]

Well,there is the distribution problem.The only reason to go into a comic shop is because you already have something to pick up there.
And like I said countless times before,its not about selling one comic to 20 people,its about selling 20 comics to 1 person.

The other problem with that is that comics are simply too expensive these days. 3.99/5.99 may not seem that much, but for what tends to amount to only 5-10 minutes entertainment, it certainly is. I saw Civil War for that same amount and got 2 hours worth of entertainment out of it, so that should tell you how skewed the price/content ratio for comics is these days. If you want people to buy 20 comics, then they need to actually be able to afford 20 comics, because comics these days are far too much for far too little.

[Silver Shocker]

Actually, I've had the board crash on me a few times the last two days or so. Clearly me and Spade is chatting so much the board can't handle it Captain! 

I should clarify: I read Spider-Man in junior high, but I read Identity Crisis in high school. I also read Macbeth in high school; that story's not particularly wholesome either. I also was talking in generalities about, say Death Note. I saw the english dub of the anime on tv when I nearing the end of my high school years. I should stress, while the comic was published in a magazine aimed at elementary school student, the anime aired in midnight in Japan. They knew it wasn't really the right fit for Shonen Jump.

In terms of Zelda, how did you feel about the Redeads (Zombies)? And what about Wind Waker, the one that looked like a CGI cartoon, ends with Link shoving his sword directly in Gannondorf's forehead, while Twlight Princess ended with Gannondorf getting his neck snapped (kinda, magic was involved). And then there's Ghirahim, the main villain of Skyward Sword. He looks like this he threatens to make Link "drown in his own blood" and his entire character is meant to sexually aggressive (as seen in that gif), and flamboyant. Then there was the Dynasty Warriors spinoff that made nearly all the female character more sexualized...that mind, that got a t-rating instead of the usual E-10+, but then again, as a Dynasty Warriors game, it was entirely non-stop combat, with flashy special moves.

Talking about TMNT, the 2003 one (which was inspired more by the original Mirage comics, and has a more brief nods to the infamously 90-edgy Image run) is, at times, quite a bit darker, and certainly less silly than large chunks of the 2012 one. This is a big part of why it was so divisive. The violence? Well, the running gag with Stockman was every time he failed or unsuccessfully tried to betray the Shredder, the next time we see him he'd have one less body part. a lost eye, a lost limb. Eventually he was literally a brain, spine and eyeball in a jar. Then he became a zombie with rotting flesh. That episode got banned in the U.S. Which is a shame, because it was really good (not because of the zombie thing, but because of his flashbacks, which made the whole story very bittersweet). Lessee, then there was the Loftcraft episode (that also had zombies) where one of the Turtles (Leo?) saw a vision of Splinter dying....then there was the episode where the Turtles were in a dream where all of their friends and allies died one after another (including Mikey's cat! ), then there was the episode where Karai seemingly killed Mikey, Ralph, Donnie and Splinter, and we didn't see how they survived until part 2....there was the one where Leo cut the Shredder's head off (he got better)....then there was the Lost Season, which DID eventually air in the U.S., where the demon Shredder from feudal Japan (who ALSO had an army of zombies) defeated Karai, torn off lairs of her clothes, and said he wanted to keep her as a "servant girl".  Did I mention he looked just her adoptive father? She also gets stabbed and has to rest at April's apartment for a while (she was a good guy at the time, kinda) [EDIT] Oh snap, I forgot the time Agent Bishop got impaled on a meat hook (he also got better). Then there was "Same as it Never Was", which was basically Days of Future Past mixed with that mecha fight from Matrix Revolutions. All but two characters die horribly and the whole thing ends with Donnie running a sonic drill the size of a Zamboni through the Shredder's face....onscreen. *phew* How was that?

SS, you read books from a young age that I definitely would not be comfortable giving a child of mine.  I'm glad that you enjoyed them and that it worked out for you, but because we can do something doesn't necessarily mean we should.  Yeah, kids are exposed to a lot more these days than they were when I was a kid...but I'm far from convinced that's a good thing.  In fact, given what I've observed in the classroom as this new generation has begun to arrive, I'm pretty convinced that whatever we're doing as a culture isn't working out all that well.  Of course, I'm not fool enough to lay all or even most of that at the feet of violent video games and media.  Nonetheless, it's something that I wonder about.

I also watched Buffy when I was elementary and high school, and everything that was in Identity Crisis was in Buffy. but that's the rub, isn't it? That was the later seasons. The early seasons were fairly innocuous fare, comparable to say, Are You Afraid of the Dark or Goosebumps. I just described the more violent parts of the 2003 TMNT, but that was like 5% of a show that ran for 8 seasons. How do you know if the episode you're gonna watch just go happens to be one of the more violent ones? It's kinda like that in the comics too. I pretty sure the actual ratio of issues Johns has wrote where gore happens is a 50% split at best. But that's one of the things we remember him for.

Bringing it back to comics (too late!) The thing you got to remember, Benton, about those relatively wholesale Silver Age comics you remember more fondly. Nobody wanted to make them that way. That era of comics was notoriously censored. The entire reason the superhero genre became so popular was basically because the Comics Code Authority was clamping down on horror and crime comics. Criminals weren't allowed to be shown in an sympathetic light (compare that to say....Brian Azzarello or Garth Ennis' body of work). Authority figures like the police were never to be shown in a negative light (so something like Civil War with its "Cape Killer" units or the X-Men's "MRD's" were right out of the question!) Stan Lee got all of the flak just for depicting drug use in a Spidey comic....and it was depicted entirely in a negative light. As in full-on South Park "Drugs R' Bad". It wasn't Woodstock or anything. Peter David has nothing nice to say about the Comics Code. When someone asked him about it being dissolved he complained that they would not let him have an on-screen same-sex kiss....the reason it ticked him off was because one of the characters was J'onn J'onnz shapeshifted into a female, so in his eyes it "didn't count". (I actually have that issue. It's the same issue that all but outright said that Wonder Woman and all of the Amazon's had sex with each other on Paradise Island). So just think, if all those disgruntled comic writers had their way, they would have made the books as raunchy and violent as they wanted decades ago, and you could have been turned off back then. You entire life could have gone in a different direction. I'm seeing it now. You play the harpsichord in a major orchestra and are a Pierre du Cinema buff (I'm sure I'm butchering that).