DC Comics Reboot

[Silver Shocker]

SS, yeah, I like her as a writer as well, but the only book she's ever been on that interested me was The All New Atom, which was awesome.  It's a shame that she's had such a hard time at DC.

Funny thing about that, I read the first issue or two of All New Atom out of the bargain bin a few years ago (well after they first came out) and I remember I quite liked them. I always meant to read more of that series but never did ( I have A LOT of DC stuff from years past hanging around my place that I haven't read yet. I'm still trying to get through the first volume of Batman INC).  Even her Action Comics run, which wasn't anything special (though it did have a tie-in to Villains United, which launched Secret Six, which appealed to me), was decent IMO.

[BentonGrey]

Ohh, you should definitely read through The All New Atom!  It really picks up after issue 10 or so.   Yeah, I've got several incomplete runs lying around that I need to finish out and read one of these days.  I've just got to find some time and some money.

[Glitch Girl]

A little late to the party, but I personally ADORE this new Batgirl costume.  It still looks like "Batgirl", but is far more practical and just looks cool.  I'd cosplay this in a heartbeat if I had the time and money to build it.

[Starman]

I like the costume, too ... it looks cool and functional without trying to be uncomfortably sexy.

Silver Shocker, I'd love to see Gail Simone on Suicide Squad ... that book has been painful to read since it was relaunched in the New 52, and I'd be keen to see what Simone could do with the characters.

[Silver Shocker]

Well, a big reason why I said that (other than that I really like Suicide Squad but the New 52 version never inspired much confidence in me based on its creative team, redesigns, ect) is because Simone was writing Secret Six before that, which was a spiritual successor to SS to begin with. She said that in many interviews, and original SS writer John Ostrander actually wrote an issue or two of the book (including a Deadshot spotlight issue, if I recall). In addition to that, the new SS book kept Deadshot and King Shark from S6 as to intice S6 fans to buy it (I didn't, but like I said, if Simone wrote it).
DC put out a reprint of the original Ostrander stories a years back and I got it and read through it. It's a bit dated in its writing style, but I still thought it was pretty darn good (and fun fact, I became a Suicide Squad fan mostly because of the SS mod for Freedom Force )

[Starman]

All of Ostrander's run was supposed to be collected but DC only released a single TPB, which unfortunately didn't sell well. Ostrander's run is one of my all time favourite DC Comics runs ... he really invigorated some old and underused characters, like Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Bronze Tiger, Count Vertigo, etc and created great new ones in Amanda Waller and Barbara Gordon's "Oracle" persona.

The guy is a very underrated writer but there doesn't seem to be enough of a youthful fanbase for his work to warrant DC giving him any current projects.

The New 52 Suicide Squad just isn't very interesting to me ... it has the shallowness and anonymous style of a lame action movie, with too much of a focus/fanservice on the New 52 sexpot Suicide Girl version of Harley Quinn.

[SickAlice]

I can say eleven issues in Future's End is exceeding my exceptions and has shaped up to be a solid comic book story and worth the price of admission. I don't feel like my time and money where wasted on it. I was nervous picking this one up given how out of left field it looked but it isn't disappointing and instead got better every issue. The characters and their moments together feel genuine which is a plus.

Didn't mean to interrupt, sorry. My stance on the New...or what the previous New Suicide Squad book (I liked the pre-DCnU title for that matter and of course Secret Six) is pretty obvious and that's that I'm a big fan. Though I wouldn't sell it as anything it isn't and like it for many of the reasons you guys might not. The Harley fanwanking for sure is a plus for me, I need more of it in my life. You left Waller wanking as well. My favorite parts of the run though turned out to be the character development of Deadshot and elaboration on King Shark. Like I said I like Secret Six but those guys were two dimensional clowns in that book, especially Shark and overshadowed by other characters in the series all while be played under Bane's top dog status. It was nice to see them get more attention and fleshed out. As for " New " well it's been one issue so not really much to go on. I'm interested to see what they do with Black Manta.

Speaking of rebooted books getting rebooted again recently, it's pretty cool that DC listened to all the negative feedback on Teen Titans and decided to scrap and reinvent the series. But, again mind it's only one issue but does it seem to anyone else that they reinvented...as the same thing it already was? Or am I not grasping what part of the dynamic actually shifted there?

[Silver Shocker]

All of Ostrander's run was supposed to be collected but DC only released a single TPB, which unfortunately didn't sell well. Ostrander's run is one of my all time favourite DC Comics runs ... he really invigorated some old and underused characters, like Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Bronze Tiger, Count Vertigo, etc and created great new ones in Amanda Waller and Barbara Gordon's "Oracle" persona.

Oh I knew about that vol. 2, I would have bought that if it ever come out. It's disappointing, but understandable. I love that the Squad shows up in so many things now (video games, cartoon movies and live action shows) and that extra media exposure is probably a very good thing, I just wish that would help sell the earlier books.

I totally forgot that he made Babs into Oracle. That's awesome.

To me an ideal Squad has Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Waller, and maybe Bronze Tiger. Which is why all the Assualt on Arkham stuff has made me very happy. I'm really hoping I'll enjoy that but honestly it'll have to be pretty flipping bad for me to not to.

The guy is a very underrated writer but there doesn't seem to be enough of a youthful fanbase for his work to warrant DC giving him any current projects.

Well he did get to write Star Wars comics for many years, and if I recall correctly he was considered very good at it. That's not a bad gig.

My stance on the New...or what the previous New Suicide Squad book (I liked the pre-DCnU title for that matter and of course Secret Six) is pretty obvious and that's that I'm a big fan.

There's nothing wrong with you liking it. If I ever read it and like it I'll happily concede it. For now though I just haven't bothered (it also sells out at my local store so I haven't been able to stock up on back issues during a sale, I have considered ordering a trade or two though) and a big reason is its never had a creative team or lineup that really grabbed me (though I do like that Patrick Zircher, who I loved on Thunderbolts and Cable & Deadpool, did work for the book).

My favorite parts of the run though turned out to be the character development of Deadshot and elaboration on King Shark.  Like I said I like Secret Six but those guys were two dimensional clowns in that book, especially Shark and overshadowed by other characters in the series all while be played under Bane's top dog status.

I'll grant you Shark, he was definitely a comic relief character, but I personally don't think Floyd Layton came off too badly in S6. Yes, he was mostly there to be a snarky jackass but I don't think he came off badly knowing what I knew about him from the SS stuff. To use a Ghostbusters analogy (since I love me some Ghostbusters), he was very much like Venkman in the comic book, whereby being more of a comic relief character made him seem more shallow and surly.

[SickAlice]

If I were selling Suicide Squad to someone, being the Glass run (the eventual writer toggling also makes summing it up difficult, at some Cheetah appears out of nowhere and vanishes again as well as Gordan Jr.) I guess I would sum it up saying " The plot and dialogue run like that of an action movie. Think superhero meets G.I.JOE. ". Not really a prolific read and it won't move you in any moments. I only note Glass here because it's considered the meat of the series and defined by him. I liked Zircher's run personally but it was it's own thing for the most part an to unfog the fact that we may be coming from different points of view as I've been speaking of the technical merits that were presented by Adam. Not to speak of the few other writers who eventually popped in and out before the series ended.

I watched a documentary on comic books last year and someone (can't remember, I think Palmiotti though) was speaking for how currently most comic writers were urged to write their books in a manner that they looked like potential movie scripts and storyboards as Hollywood was currently going through all books looking for the next golden goose egg, or something to this effect. I felt a lot of that there (noting I've seen few articles that insisting Suicide Squad/Task Force X is constantly being towards other mediums). Basically in agreement with Starman here except I enjoy a lame action movie every now and then so it appeals to me.

Have to agree to disagree on Floyd/S6 then sorry. I did enjoy him in S6, it was hard not to enjoy anything about that book but when I read him in it, as well Catman for that matter I just felt they were being underplayed to the other characters in the book and coming off as the 2d dimensional well, more the Latka than the Venkman to me. Venkman had character development, I didn't see much with Deadshot in S6. He was pretty much backdrop to characters like Bane, Scandal, Knockout and Ragdoll. Actually if we're going there I would say Deadshot is more the Venkman in Glass's SS run than S6 since the plot of Ghostbusters made light of what Peter's life concerns were and tied the plot into them. Suicide Squad seems to do the same for Deadshot, at least again the initial issues by Adam anyways.

Not to be criticizing the writing on Secret Six either, sorry if it sounds that way. Having backdrop characters when a large cast is present is almost always going to happen. More giving at least Glass's run a positive credit where I can find one and using what's available to contrast and illuminate it. I definitely put Secret Six over Suicide Squad DCnu in terms of overall quality and readability otherwise.

-
While the subject of Harley Quinn is on the table my anaylisis of her series: This is a fun book and it's meant to be. If your looking for a dirty MAD Magazine style read then it's for you. If your looking for the deep relationship moments and serious character introspectives that found Harley in Gotham City Sirens then it isn't what your looking. It's a gross, goofy and often degrading to outright offensive read. I tend to see it as DC's softcore equilivant of Panty & Stocking With Garterbelt if the reference hit's with anyone. I almost feel while reading it that this is Amanda Conner sort of lashing out a repression of sorts born in her usually being cast as a sensitive, mindful writer and often lumped in as a feminist leader in ways. Her punk rock moment if you will. Because she doesn't bother to pander to anyone here in fact quite the opposite.So if gaffs, crudity and gross-out moments for the sake of it are your thing then give it a shot else avoid it. And of course the aforementioned Harley fanwaking. This book was obviously made for that exactly.

[Starman]

Does the New 52 Suicide Squad sell well? If the action movie formula is getting results (Silver Shocker mentioned its sold out at his local store), I'm okay with it.

As much as I loved Ostrander's Suicide Squad, the sales were never that hot and I can understand why it's never proven popular enough to be collected in TPB. People's comic reading habits change. I thought Greg Rucka's Checkmate run was more of a natural successor to Ostrander's Suicide Squad than Simone's Secret Six was ... but that series also sold super poorly!

I think the type of stuff I enjoy isn't really in vogue with the comic-reading mainstream at the moment 

[SickAlice]

I don't check the numbers so no clue. I know they hacked up the team getting rid of lesser knowns (the only point of contention I had to the writer change, too much story was lost when that happened) and replaced them with well knowns and guest stars (Cheetah, Gordan Jr., Power Girl, Steel, so on). Usually when that tact happens quickly it's partly because the numbers are down. Also the series was ended and relaunched again at #1 with more character changes and all even more popular (now Deathstroke and Black Manta for example). No inside knowledge but those are strong indicators it wasn't hitting the mark. Though don't quote me, this seems to be happening with many of the books by DC and Marvel and might just be the way everything's done and not a reflection of sales?

And like he said it's cool. Different preferences, all are welcome and needed. My favorite stuff right now isn't mainstream either, my top five list doesn't even include a title by Marvel or DC. My favorite reads by the big two as well are the real odd ones. But I " digest " anything I can get my hands on is pretty much the size of me. Because something isn't great doesn't mean I won't have an appreciation for it in a different way. More I just love comics period. Put something with captions in front of me and I focus on it happily. On the downside this makes me a terrible critique and person to take comic suggestions from, I'm too forgiving basically. But it's what floats my boat. *shrug*

[Starman]

SickAlice, what other DC New 52 stuff are you enjoying, besides Suicide Squad?

[Silver Shocker]

Sick Alice, just in case you weren't following me properly, I was strictly talking about the Ghostbusters comic book. In the movie Venkman's definitely the central character, with lots of time spent on his romance. In the comic book he's got a smaller role, with Egon and Winston being fleshed out more. Yes, there's definitely some character-centric stuff with him (the psychic encounter that shows him in his old college office is a good example) but that book also ran for a few years, and a lot of issues of that book have him just being surly.

Fair enough. I haven't read S6 in years so it's also entirely possible if I reread it I'd see it more your way, but yes, Catman was definitely given way more development than Floyd. I think I was fine with that because I really enjoyed the whole ensemble cast, and I recognize that in an ensemble cast some characters are often going to get a bigger spotlight. Plus with me not reading much DC these days (and with the New 52 leaving many of these older stories as a memory) I find myself waxing nostalgic to the books I enjoyed back then.

Starman, don't take what I said to mean that SS sells well everywhere. I have no idea what the numbers are and I'm strictly talking back issue bins well after the issues came out. My comic book shop's never been a good indicator for the greater comic buying public. Plus all that needs to happen for a book to sell out is for the shop to sell every copy they ordered. If they only ordered a few copies and people buy them, there you go.

[SickAlice]

I kind of thought you might be meaning from another form of media since Venkman is the class clown in most. But saying Ghostbusters brings the film to mind for me first and I was more grabbing your analogy to try and explain what I was saying a little better. Note too I didn't have a problem with the way Deadshot was portrayed in S6 either if it seems like I'm saying that. I enjoyed that series through and through and still re-read arcs to date. I guess the best way to put it is one of the points I can give SS was that it complimented the character by fleshing him out a bit. Not to mention of course giving dimension to the Wall and the lesser known members. I just didn't read Suicide Squad as a complete loss. Subpar for sure but I'm not certain they were actually trying to present anything poignant anyways.

[GhostMachine]

So I hear they're turning Dick Grayson into a non-masked, gun-toting character.

If anyone here knows someone who works at DC Comics, please ask them to slap the living tar out of the editor who approved that idea.....

[Starman]

The first issue of "Grayson" was actually pretty good, I thought ... Dick had his secret identity revealed during Forever Evil and he's not going around shooting up bad guys. I also like that he's working for the Spyral organisation that was introduced with Batman Incorporated.

[Silver Shocker]

So I hear they're turning Dick Grayson into a non-masked, gun-toting character.

If anyone here knows someone who works at DC Comics, please ask them to slap the living tar out of the editor who approved that idea.....

I'm sure some of them would love to do that, but to paraphrase Kevin Smith, "But they don't do that, because they would like to keep their job".

[trebean]

Didn't really mind it, if it expands Dick as a character, then go for it.

Also, finally finished Larfleeze, and like any good Giffen and DeMatteis story, it had freaking G'NORT!
The ending was real cool too, who knew?

Spoiler

Larfleeze and G'nort are distant relatives...... darn now I'm just gonna dissapprove for those people who didn't buy this, causing it to get downsized into a miniseries rather than a regular

[SickAlice]

The Larfleeze series was all that and more. Needs to be on everyone's list. I would've been more sad to see it go if it hadn't ended so perfectly. And yeah, G'Nort!

[detourne_me]

So I just read about Grant Morrison's latest DC project Multiversity.  I think I'll be buying some DC comics again...well at least the nine issues of the series.

[Glitch Girl]

DC Selfies month.

Gotta admit, even though the concept is beyond silly, I'm liking some of these covers.  Espcially the Superman and Wonder Woman ones, though that Aquaman one is just goofy.

http://comicsalliance.com/joe-quinones-batman-66-selfie-cover-robin-dc-comics/

[trebean]

Oh gawd, the Aquaman cover, priceless BWAHAHAHA.

The Superman Batman Cover is neato too, but the Wonder Woman one..... ugh, I just don't get people who stick out their tounges, lol

[BentonGrey]

Haha, those are sorta' neat in an odd way.  Other than the ridiculously over-sexualized look that Catwoman is sporting these days, I like her cover.  The cat struggling to get onto the counter cracks me up.

[JeyNyce]

The Catwoman one kind of freaky.  I can see her as an old cat lady living alone.

[BentonGrey]

Yeah Jey, she's just a YOUNG cat lady living alone at the moment.

[bat1987]

Those are way cooler than they have any right to be, good stuff.

There's also a hilarious Alfred one

[BentonGrey]

Haha! That is AWESOME!

[SickAlice]

Justice League #32...

Spoiler

DOOM PATROL! HOORAY!

[trebean]

Spoiler

I see that they're picking the Chief is a dousebag direction, which is fine really, but for some reason, what was the need to alter ElastiGirl's power? Apparently she must always be smiling to co trol her molecular structure, which made explaining her power all the more confusing. Also, no Mento? On another note, I love the interaction between Billy and Cyborg, but Shazam's characterization..... kinda irks me, whatever happened to his Wisdom of Solomon? I'm all the more irked because Johns writing of Capt Marvel during his JSA days were quite good

[JeyNyce]

ElastiGirl's power was the she can grown, kind of like Giant man, right?  Then why is she called Elastigirl?  This is why I could never fully get into Doom Patrol.  I liked them, but they never held my interest.