Is Wolverine being spread a little too thin?

[lugaru]

So WOLVERINE currently was taken over by the eye of Agamotto



while becoming a vampire



and getting possessed.



Quick, somebody fetch him the infinity gauntlet, have a werewolf bite him, shoot him up with supersoldier serum, put him in a Starktech armor and grant him a secondary mutation before people get bored with the character.

[BlueBard]

The thread title... Must... resist... photoshopping Wolverine onto a jar of Skippy...

Although I'm not sure if lycanthropy wouldn't be fairly redundant in Wolverine's case.  Are werewolves allergic to Adamantium?  That would be hilarious.  (Die... Regenerate... Die... Regenerate...)

Seriously, though, I agree.  Logan gets more media coverage than both Obamas put together.

[Courtnall6]

Don't worry...Marvel has the pointless Wolverine Boy and Wolverine Girl clones (Daken and X-23) to fill the gaps.

[AfghanAnt]

Don't worry...Marvel has the pointless Wolverine Boy and Wolverine Girl clones (Daken and X-23) to fill the gaps.

How is that statement any different than saying Superboy, Supergirl, Steel, Eradicator, Strange Visitor, Krypto, and Powergirl are pointless? People like variations of their favorite characters - sidekick, clone, villain, or otherwise.

Regardless, the reason Wolverine is everywhere is he sells comics and the end of the day that is how Marvel keeps the lights on. It would be different if it was just a Wolverine thing but it is the American comic book industries methodology. How many Superman titles, guest appearances, and character variations (Steel, Superboy, Krypto, Supergirl, etc) appeared this month? I bet it is more than Wolverine/X-23/Daken combined.

I like you alright C6 but it seems like you dislike modern comic just because they are modern.

[murs47]

I actually like X-23 a lot. Maybe more than Wolverine.

*hides*

[AfghanAnt]

I actually like X-23 a lot. Maybe more than Wolverine.

*hides*

Yeah me too. She all claws and no real talk. Like classic Wolvie but with boobs and less hairy.


Edit: Also I think I should mention that Superman is the source of all problems in modern comics old fanboys hate. Think about it.

[Courtnall6]

How is that statement any different than saying Superboy, Supergirl, Steel, Eradicator, Strange Visitor, Krypto, and Powergirl are pointless?

Yup. They're pointless too. Very little new or original about them. In the end all they are are weaker copies created soley to ride the coat tails of the original.

I like you alright C6 but it seems like you dislike modern comic just because they are modern.

Nah...I don't hate modern comics because they're modern. I just can't respect a business that seems to go out of it's way to do the exact opposite of what made them successful in the first place. When their TOP selling comic today would fall under cancellation 25 years ago...they ain't doin' it right!

I do hate Kanye West tho...that guy is a serious tool.

[AfghanAnt]

So you have hated comics since when? Before the early 60s expansion of superhero comics due to Superman's increasing popularity and the subsequent crossover to tv, toys, and various other mediums? Did you ever like comics?

BTW comics aren't selling because of a number of reasons but variate characters are certainly not the reason why...

Gentleman Juggernaut is displeased with your general blaming comments.

[Courtnall6]

So you have hated comics since when? Before the early 60s expansion of superhero comics due to Superman's increasing popularity and the subsequent crossover to tv, toys, and various other mediums? Did you ever like comics?

BTW comics aren't selling because of a number of reasons but variate characters are certainly not the reason why...

Gentleman Juggernaut is displeased with your general blaming comments.

60's no...wasn't born yet...probably around the mid 90's or so...it all went to $#!%.

I never said the reason comics weren't selling is because of variate characters.

[lugaru]

You know, I'm a huge fan of X-23 as well.

I have this major "devils advocate" streak so I keep wanting to like Dakken but it is hard after what he did to Frank Castle and that 3rd wrist claw just rubs me the wrong way. I did love him as Dark Wolverine on the Dark Avengers team though, for sure the characters highlight.

As for wolvie himself I love it when it turns up, without a costume, to some small town in the middle of nowhere and proceeds to fight vampires/ninjas/criminals because they ruined his night out drinking. I always considered him a better Pulp hero than anti-hero or superhero.

[kkhohoho]

So you have hated comics since when? Before the early 60s expansion of superhero comics due to Superman's increasing popularity and the subsequent crossover to tv, toys, and various other mediums? Did you ever like comics?

BTW comics aren't selling because of a number of reasons but variate characters are certainly not the reason why...

Gentleman Juggernaut is displeased with your general blaming comments.

60's no...wasn't born yet...probably around the mid 90's or so...it all went to $#!%.

I never said the reason comics weren't selling is because of variate characters.

Then what is the reason, hm?

[BentonGrey]

So you have hated comics since when? Before the early 60s expansion of superhero comics due to Superman's increasing popularity and the subsequent crossover to tv, toys, and various other mediums? Did you ever like comics?

BTW comics aren't selling because of a number of reasons but variate characters are certainly not the reason why...

Gentleman Juggernaut is displeased with your general blaming comments.

60's no...wasn't born yet...probably around the mid 90's or so...it all went to $#!%.

I never said the reason comics weren't selling is because of variate characters.

Then what is the reason, hm?

That's just what Marvel and DC want to know.  Ha, but the reasons are manifold.

[deano_ue]

good god wolverines in a lot of comics, and people are moaning, next thing you know spidey make a guest apperance in a another book, people will blame it all on the symbiotes and bendis will announce another book  ohh marvel comics wont some please think of the children or the silver age fans

[daglob]

No one cares about the silver age fans, and in 20 years no one will care about the present-day fans. They don't care about kids because kids can't afford the comics. I'm not sure what their target audience is anymore, but it ain't me.

[Tomato]

Um... can someone explain to me how Wolverine being everywhere is either new or interesting? Because see, I grew up on the 90s marvel shows... and I don't think there was a commercial that went by where Wolverine was not put front and center. This is a character who has been in uncountable mini-series, elseworlds, team books, not to mention his own books. The only thing that's really changed in the last decade is his inclusion in the Avengers. You can't even claim Daken or X-23 as new either, because they're only the latest in a long list of Wolverine clones that have shown up over the course of the character's history (though I would agree with AA that X-23 is far more interesting then some of his other female clones) just as there have been of any popular character in comics.

[Previsionary]

No one cares about the silver age fans, and in 20 years no one will care about the present-day fans. They don't care about kids because kids can't afford the comics. I'm not sure what their target audience is anymore, but it ain't me.

Which is funny to me because Marvel HAS put out Silver age related content frequently as well as golden age stuff (And they even had some of their big writers take on those projects). They put out an ongoing kids oriented line that the writers and editors love, and people have constantly said it was as good, if not better, than the mainstream stuff. You even have Marvel exclusive artists, writers, and editors (well, one of those editors left a few weeks ago on good turns) pointing out that comics need to stop talking down to children and be more about them and finding new audiences in general, but hey, it's much better to shoot off negatively about such and such company rather than give any sort of props. So much easier.

Also, ironically, with Geoff Johns in the picture, isn't the "Silver Age" a very prominent notion in DC right now, which is why he gets some flak because he's pushing it too far? I think he cares about the silver age a lot, don't you?

[deano_ue]

No one cares about the silver age fans, and in 20 years no one will care about the present-day fans. They don't care about kids because kids can't afford the comics. I'm not sure what their target audience is anymore, but it ain't me.

umm do you read any dc comics, if it isn't silver age it isn't used

[AfghanAnt]

No one cares about the silver age fans, and in 20 years no one will care about the present-day fans. They don't care about kids because kids can't afford the comics. I'm not sure what their target audience is anymore, but it ain't me.

umm do you read any dc comics, if it isn't silver age it isn't used

I gotta cosign this comment because frankly now every thing is Silver Age aka "White is Right". *puts on white lantern ring and RISES away from the thread*

[BentonGrey]

No one cares about the silver age fans, and in 20 years no one will care about the present-day fans. They don't care about kids because kids can't afford the comics. I'm not sure what their target audience is anymore, but it ain't me.

umm do you read any dc comics, if it isn't silver age it isn't used

I gotta cosign this comment because frankly now every thing is Silver Age aka "White is Right". *puts on white lantern ring and RISES away from the thread*

AA...come on man.  Let's not turn this into a bad day in a freshmen lit class (every day?).  Everything's sex or racism with those crazy kids.   I get enough of that during the week.

I will say that Marvel's "Marvel Adventures" line is an excellent thing.  They have pretty solid books that aren't too kiddy, but also aren't crippled by years and years of what strikes me as bad continuity.  They're just telling fun stories, stories not dripping with angst and "mature" (in the false sense) content.  I give them a lot of credit for that, especially comparing it to DC's similar offering, which is super "kiddy."  However, it is significant to my mind that there isn't much communication in terms of themes or content between this line and what is currently going on for Marvel.  The folks who make up the majority of the posters in this thread seem to be the closest thing to a demographic that modern mainstream comics have, but the problem is that this isn't necessarily a growing market.  I don't see much of a path to turn new fans into long term fans.  I'm not saying that creating such would be an easy thing, because heaven knows that the range of tastes in this thread alone would make it virtually impossible to do without making some hard choices about who are the "important" fans.  For example, if I had kids I'd be happy for them to read the "Marvel Adventures" line, but I would be much less enthusiastic for them to try and transition into the regular Marvel books, be they toddlers or teenagers.

[herodad1]

white is right? Hmmmm...? well i understand what c6 is saying. i was buying and reading comics from the 70's to around the end of the 90's. maybe great characters eventually run their course and writers have to keep changing and reinventing to keep the stories going and the money coming in. i'm a true blue Marvel fan but somewhere they started loosing me. guess there at the end of the 90's. they also were too expensive and i was running out of room to store them. could kill myself now for selling them. it all has to do also with our ages. things change with time and us old guys still like to remember the good old days of youth and comic reading. you whipper snappers will feel the same too. one day the songs you listen to will be "the oldies".

[Previsionary]

Don't worry. There's a huge curtain of fatigue on current comic fans anyway... and if the songs of the late 90s and the majority of the 00s will be considered "oldies" in the next few decades, then I'd rather shove my head in an oven and burn myself to death. *extremism*

[BentonGrey]

Don't worry. There's a huge curtain of fatigue on current comic fans anyway... and if the songs of the late 90s and the majority of the 00s will be considered "oldies" in the next few decades, then I'd rather shove my head in an oven and burn myself to death. *extremism*

I'd suggest you start preheating....   One day a bunch of old folks are going to be sitting around talking about the days when there were REAL musicians....like Brittney Spears....

[Tawodi Osdi]

Don't worry. There's a huge curtain of fatigue on current comic fans anyway... and if the songs of the late 90s and the majority of the 00s will be considered "oldies" in the next few decades, then I'd rather shove my head in an oven and burn myself to death. *extremism*

I'd suggest you start preheating....   One day a bunch of old folks are going to be sitting around talking about the days when there were REAL musicians....like Brittney Spears....

Today's new sound is tomorrow's muzak.

[Tomato]

Don't worry. There's a huge curtain of fatigue on current comic fans anyway... and if the songs of the late 90s and the majority of the 00s will be considered "oldies" in the next few decades, then I'd rather shove my head in an oven and burn myself to death. *extremism*

I'd suggest you start preheating....  One day a bunch of old folks are going to be sitting around talking about the days when there were REAL musicians....like Brittney Spears....

Speaking as someone who remembers when Brittney Spears was popular, I can say with some degree of accuracy that she was never a real musician.

As far as comics go... I must admit that I'm in the camp of those weary of modern books. That said, I honestly don't think it has anything to do with silver age or anything... I love that era to death, but there were just as many horrible books then too. The issue I have has to do with everyone (fans included) overcomplicating everything... I can't just open up a comic and know what's going on, I have to know what has been going on in 20 other books over the last 2 decades to understand it, and often the plot is so convuluted and murky I don't see the point anyway.

So while I'll occasionally pick up a mainstream comic (mostly on advice from friends) for the most part I stick to books like the Archie Sonic books... yes there are plots that build on each other, but the storylines are simple and uncomplicated.

Edit: Yes people, I did mean "weary," not "wary". As in bored by, or tired of. Stop sending me IMs and PMs correcting me on it as though I don't know what the two words mean, bajezus.

[BentonGrey]

Speaking as someone who remembers when Brittney Spears was popular, I can say with some degree of accuracy that she was never a real musician.

As far as comics go... I must admit that I'm in the camp of those weary of modern books. That said, I honestly don't think it has anything to do with silver age or anything... I love that era to death, but there were just as many horrible books then too. The issue I have has to do with everyone (fans included) overcomplicating everything... I can't just open up a comic and know what's going on, I have to know what has been going on in 20 other books over the last 2 decades to understand it, and often the plot is so convuluted and murky I don't see the point anyway.

So while I'll occasionally pick up a mainstream comic (mostly on advice from friends) for the most part I stick to books like the Archie Sonic books... yes there are plots that build on each other, but the storylines are simple and uncomplicated.

Ha, that's precisely my point, 'Mato.  

You know, I loved those books when I was a kid!  Did you ever read the Archie TMNT books?  They were pretty good too.  

Characterizing those who don't feel at home in the world of modern mainstream comics (because there most certainly are books out there today that I, for one, love) strikes me as reductionist.  For example, I don't really care for the majority of the Silver Age books I've read, and the real appeal of them, to me, is their moral sense.  I love the end of the original Aquaman run, the early Avengers tales, and Hawkman...but then there is quite a bit of which I'm not so fond.  Like I've said many times before, what I really want hasn't ever existed as the prevalent style of any period, though I suppose the Bronze Age comes closest in some ways.

[Talavar]

It's Sturgeon's Lawhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon's_law: 90% of everything is crud.  People are just more likely to apply rose-coloured glasses when thinking about the past.

[AfghanAnt]

No one cares about the silver age fans, and in 20 years no one will care about the present-day fans. They don't care about kids because kids can't afford the comics. I'm not sure what their target audience is anymore, but it ain't me.

umm do you read any dc comics, if it isn't silver age it isn't used

I gotta cosign this comment because frankly now every thing is Silver Age aka "White is Right". *puts on white lantern ring and RISES away from the thread*

AA...come on man.  Let's not turn this into a bad day in a freshmen lit class (every day?).  Everything's sex or racism with those crazy kids.   I get enough of that during the week.

I was just kidding but seriously I wish DC didn't throw away everything from the late 80's and 90's for characters I am not even familiar with such as Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Atom (though I did like TT Atom), etc.

[Tawodi Osdi]

I'm with Mater and BG.  I don't miss the old characters as I miss the old idealism.  Super heroes weren't heroic because they had powers.  They were heroic because the represented higher ideals of honor and justice.  Also, writers and artists weren't as interested in continuity back in those days.  No one really cared if Batman was showing up in 5 regular series a month with no consideration of continuity.  The only thing that mattered was Batman being in 5 good stories a month.  This may be sacrilege, but I even like multiple Earths and paradoxical time travel stories.  

And to relate this issue back towards the original topic, I even liked the plethora of characters like Superboy and Batgirl that were little more than copies of an original; so, I have no problem with junior Wolverines or doppelgangers walking around even though I am not necessarily a fan of Wolverine.

[BentonGrey]

AA...come on man.  Let's not turn this into a bad day in a freshmen lit class (every day?).  Everything's sex or racism with those crazy kids.   I get enough of that during the week.

I was just kidding but seriously I wish DC didn't throw away everything from the late 80's and 90's for characters I am not even familiar with such as Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Atom (though I did like TT Atom), etc.

Fair enough AA, and I'll even agree!  While there aren't too many characters introduced during that span that I cared about, the similar situation with poor Ryan Choi is one that really rubbed me the wrong way.  The idea that we have to tear down to do something interesting is, perhaps, one of the things that bothers me most about current comic philosophies among the big two, but that is not necessarily a new idea either. 

[Ares_God_of_War]

Yes, Wolverine is spread too thin. No, I do not think any particular comic age is better than the other. I think pretty much every comic has had a high point or a low point.