Heroes Volume Four

[Spring Heeled Jack]

I don't know why I keep watching this show. I've never seen a more popular trainwreck.

The writing goes nowhere and moves fast, zig-zagging from one idea to the next. The characters are wishy-washy and change more frequently than Peter's power status.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I just haven't been able to complain about this show; no one else I know watches it except my girlfriend, and she gave up on it long ago!

[Gremlin]

It was great to finally see all the more-or-less heroic central characters together, at the same time. We've had gatherings of bunches of them before, of course, but this was, as far as I can recall, the first real full-scale full-cast team-up, even if it didn't last very long. I think having all the characters together actually works better for this show than the usual "5 different plot lines per season" thing.

Looking at the guys huddled around the table, two things entered my head.
1) This group needs a little estrogen.
2) They'd make a cool superteam.

I don't know why I keep watching this show. I've never seen a more popular trainwreck.

The writing goes nowhere and moves fast, zig-zagging from one idea to the next. The characters are wishy-washy and change more frequently than Peter's power status.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I just haven't been able to complain about this show; no one else I know watches it except my girlfriend, and she gave up on it long ago!

It's fun! And it's fun enough to ignore (many of) the flaws.

[Spring Heeled Jack]

Well, that's what I thought for the longest time, but that's starting to wear off.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

That was true last volume, but this one is a vast improvement so far.

[detourne_me]

Spoiler

I really like the new team that the "heroes" have now
I hope they stick together for at least 3-4 episodes.
They're the Australian X-men pretty much.
Suresh=colossus
matt=psylocke
peter=rogue
ando=longshot
and umm hiro=dazzler/jubilee
...luke=havok   but i'm not sure if he'll meet up with the crew, or if sylar will totally corrupt him

also, i really like how sylar is progressing, he's becoming such an awesome character, almost like magneto, someone so powerful and evil, but compelling at the same time.

[detourne_me]

Did anybody see episode 16?
I think this season keeps getting better.

[stumpy]

I generally liked it.

Spoiler

Wasn't Claire supposed to be a senior in high school this year? Isn't that the pretense for the East Coast college tour? That's something you do in Spring (or earlier) of senior year. Why would she be enrolling in community college before finishing high school?

The whole scene with Alex "Aquanerd" in the comic shop going through the astonished "you're a girl" routine was annoying. The demographics for comic fans have a clear testosterone tendency, but it's not like a comic shop employee would never have seen a girl come into the shop. Give me a break.

I did like the realism in Alex's reaction to the "you're in great danger" message. I thought it was pretty realistic that it would be hard to convince someone that they were in danger just by a random stranger in a comic shop telling them so. Of course, if Claire had had the presence of mind to know the guy was probably a target because he had some power, then mentioning that would add a lot of credibility to her claim.

I have been liking the Claire arc. With all of her recent steps toward independence, I thought it was a good move to remind us that she is a teenage girl who would be upset that her argument with her dad may have split her mom and dad up. And, as little as I agree with his actions this season, it was consistent that HRG didn't try to throw it in her face.

Are the Indian girl Anna and her girlfriend (Shyla) supposed to be recurring characters? Or, was it a one-off so that Hiro could save the gay girl from the arranged marriage and learn that he doesn't need powers to be a hero?

Sylar's little protégé Luke is sort of a snot. You'd think the wannabe Mini Me would have some sense of caution, knowing what Sylar can do. Plus, that straw blowing in the restaurant? The fact that Sylar didn't kill him right there had me thinking that he's gone soft. Also, when Luke teased Sylar with "Stiil, you could have just left me.", my thought was, well yeah but you're the only one who knows where Sylar is going, so Sylar has an interest in those agents not carting you off to some location that's probably well equipped with sharpened bamboo shoots and sodium pentothal.

[Podmark]

Does anyone else think

Spoiler

Luke will be revealed to be Sylar's brother? I mean why does Luke know where Sylar's dad is?

[BWPS]

I generally liked it.

Spoiler

Wasn't Claire supposed to be a senior in high school this year? Isn't that the pretense for the East Coast college tour? That's something you do in Spring (or earlier) of senior year. Why would she be enrolling in community college before finishing high school?

The whole scene with Alex "Aquanerd" in the comic shop going through the astonished "you're a girl" routine was annoying. The demographics for comic fans have a clear testosterone tendency, but it's not like a comic shop employee would never have seen a girl come into the shop. Give me a break.

I did like the realism in Alex's reaction to the "you're in great danger" message. I thought it was pretty realistic that it would be hard to convince someone that they were in danger just by a random stranger in a comic shop telling them so. Of course, if Claire had had the presence of mind to know the guy was probably a target because he had some power, then mentioning that would add a lot of credibility to her claim.

I have been liking the Claire arc. With all of her recent steps toward independence, I thought it was a good move to remind us that she is a teenage girl who would be upset that her argument with her dad may have split her mom and dad up. And, as little as I agree with his actions this season, it was consistent that HRG didn't try to throw it in her face.

Are the Indian girl Anna and her girlfriend (Shyla) supposed to be recurring characters? Or, was it a one-off so that Hiro could save the gay girl from the arranged marriage and learn that he doesn't need powers to be a hero?

Sylar's little protégé Luke is sort of a snot. You'd think the wannabe Mini Me would have some sense of caution, knowing what Sylar can do. Plus, that straw blowing in the restaurant? The fact that Sylar didn't kill him right there had me thinking that he's gone soft. Also, when Luke teased Sylar with "Stiil, you could have just left me.", my thought was, well yeah but you're the only one who knows where Sylar is going, so Sylar has an interest in those agents not carting you off to some location that's probably well equipped with sharpened bamboo shoots and sodium pentothal.

Spoiler

My brother finished his high school at a community college, but it seems that she's already graduated, or maybe she's still in school and just skips way too much.
As for the "I work in a comic book shop, what is a girl?" thing, that ticked me off too. I know of several girls that read comic books. I've met females who owned comic book/game stores. My sister reads comic books more than I do. Why are they making a stupid stereotype about the only people still watching their show?
The India trip was so stupid, I really don't know where they are going with that (if anywhere). This guy is dangerous, he is above the law, but if a tiny Japanese fellow pulls a knife (or bread) out on him, he'll return his friend and call off his wedding. Hiro can't do anything, Ando can't really either (still waiting for him to supercharge Matt and have him melt all the enemies brains or something). Also, Hiro is a jerk now.

Does anyone else think

Spoiler

Luke will be revealed to be Sylar's brother? I mean why does Luke know where Sylar's dad is?

*raises hand*

Spoiler

I thought that was all but said in the last episode. Something like "You living on the same street as my father can't be a coincidence," that Sylar said. I was absolutely sure of it. Sylar really didn't ask him anything about how he knew his father though.

[Spring Heeled Jack]

Heroes is a series full to bursting with badly written characters. Sylar, Parkman, Claire, Peter...pretty much all of them. Hiro used to be more endearing, but now he just bounces back and forth between naive and belligerently childish. None of them are consistently anything even remotely good.

This show just limps along, and it doesn't measure up to the high standards set by some of its network contemporaries.

Sidenote, though: Did anyone else get the impression that Anna and Shyla are, er, intimate? Anna said she had other interests than marrying that guy, glancing over to Shyla and adding that a "traditional marriage" wasn't her style. She could have just meant that she and Shyla don't fit into the traditional male-dominated mindset her father had in mind.

[stumpy]

Sidenote, though: Did anyone else get the impression that Anna and Shyla are, er, intimate?

That was definitely my impression. To wit

Are the Indian girl Anna and her girlfriend (Shyla) supposed to be recurring characters? Or, was it a one-off so that Hiro could save the gay girl from the arranged marriage and learn that he doesn't need powers to be a hero?

[thalaw2]

I agree that the show seems to be going down hill as far as consistency. 

Spoiler

How do Ando and Hiro travel around the world if there is a task force out looking for them and all accounts are frozen?  How do they pay for food and transportation?  Does anyone think that part of the Stimulus Bill is going to fund Petrelli's prison?

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Stumpy

Spoiler

Wasn't Claire supposed to be a senior in high school this year? Isn't that the pretense for the East Coast college tour? That's something you do in Spring (or earlier) of senior year.

First, some time has gone by.  Second, it's states in the first episode of the volume that Claire quit high school and got her G.E.D. instead between volumes.

thalaw2

Spoiler

Well, Hiro is the owner of one of Japan's largest companies.  I doubt the Japanese government would just consent to freezing his accounts without a very good reason from the Americans, which they really can't give.  Besides, Ando isn't known to have powers and therefore is completely unaffected.

[Figure Fan]

I, like SHJ's girlfriend, gave up on this show LONG ago.

I await its death knell. Trollish? Yeah, maybe.

[Alaric]

Honestly, consistency and logic aren't this show's strengths- this season is neither better nor worse than any other in that regard. Once I accepted that and started just enjoying the ride, I started liking the show a lot more- it can be a lot of fun. If you're the kind of person who can't do that, who will always be bugged when things don't make sense (as I was when I was a kid), this really isn't the show for you.

[Gremlin]

Well, this wasn't that bad, if you ignore the really irritating ending.

[bredon7777]

Did they not learn their lessons from the fan's complaints that they we rehashing the same plotlines OVER and OVER and OVER again?

Judging from that ending, apparently not.

I'm starting to think that the original idea (to have a whole new cast every season) would've made for a better show.

[stumpy]

Not bad. Not really impressive, but about in the mid-range of of what I expect from the show.

Spoiler

I think I can maintain some interest in the main storyline of the characters as hunted by people who decide that, since the specials might be a threat, it's acceptable to put them in concentration camps or kill them outright. As I've said before, it's a realistic way to portray villains.

I agree that the final scene may be foreboding a rehash of a character (Matt this time) dealing with a situation gone out of control in the future that results in an explosion they have to avert. That storyline would be tired and, at this point, just boring. But, I'm not convinced that's where they are going with this. It may well be that things get to the point where the rebels decide that they have to go on attack and the explosion painted on the floor is something they decided needed to happen, for whatever reason. That would tie in more directly with the hunted storyline and could be interesting.

BTW, sort of a random thought, but with the penultimate scene with HRG talking to Momtrelli, it struck me that we don't really know the full range of her dream powers. I wonder if it's possible that she could have implanted some of the memories as dreams and HRG replayed them in his head until they were like real memories so that he could feed them to Matt. Obviously, it's sort of a long shot, but that's what occurred to me when it was implied that HRG and Momtrelli had anticipated what happened to HRG and were using it to their own agenda.

In a minor coincidence, I have been re-watching some of final season of JLU. In the episode "Patriot Act", the team fights a government guy who decides the superheroes were too big a threat. (I'm not sure what he intended to do if Superman actually did show up for the "talk" he wanted to have with him.) It's sort of a similar storyline, at least in some regards.

IMO, so far, Heroes doesn't really measure up to JLU, and I'm not sure exactly why. I was thinking that maybe it's because the animated series didn't focus on the personal interactions as much as the powers and the action. And, that's true, but it really isn't the explanation. Even though the proportions might have been different, JLU really did a good job of developing the personalities and the interaction between the characters as people.

And, of course, the characters on JLU have the advantage of already being familiar to us, so maybe that makes it easier to write stories around them. But, I don't think that's really the whole picture either. I mean, I guess I have seen all of the JLU characters in comics, but I can't say I really knew anything about Black Canary or Hawkgirl as compelling people before JLU. And, meanwhile, Heroes has had over fifty episodes to make their characters compelling, so they should be on a fairly even keel by now.

Maybe the writing for JLU just hasn't been matched on Heroes. Seems likely, but I don't know. I am curious if others here have thought about the two shows and what makes one or the other more successful?

[thalaw2]

I never thought of comparing JLU to Heroes.  They seem to be telling two very different stories and a direct comparison may not be valid.  As for enjoyment...I enjoy JLU a lot more than Heroes. 

Spoiler

As for the most recent ep. of Heroes I gotta wonder why can't Matrelli paint the future?  Or can she do it and just hasn't?

How do the folks trapped in Nathan's prison use the toilet? 

I'm really sick of the whole painting the future thing anyway.

[stumpy]

I'm really sick of the whole painting the future thing anyway.

I agree. What's the old saying about art (that I just made up)? "Paint the past, sculpt the future, and act in the present." 

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I'm getting really curious as to who Rebel is.  My two best candidates:

Spoiler

Wireless or Micah

Could be a new character as well, of course, but I'm liking my first guess.

Also like the twist at the end, for the first time in a long time.

Spoiler

The Puppeteer was my favorite villain from Villains.  He was all sorts of creepy.  Forcing Claire to rescue him like this could prove very, very interesting.  Not to mention further upsetting the Bennet household.

[BWPS]

Spoiler

Why would Sylar's father coincidentally have the first power Sylar stole from an unrelated guy?

[NomadX]

I just don't know about Heroes anymore. Alot of things are just laughable. Why in the blue hell would they even bother trying to capture Aqua-dork? Oh noes, this guy can breathe underwater....he's obviously a threat to everyone. Seriously, shouldn't they be focusing more on people that can blow up things with their minds or other such dangerous powers? Honestly, this whole plot in itself is just ridiculous. It's been done before and done better. How long before they introduce giant robots that track people down with special powers?

Spoiler

And I could have sworn that freaky Puppeteer guy was killed by Sylar. Or the very least incinerated when the place was destroyed.

[thanoson]

Spoiler

Yeah, I thought Sylar got him too. Guess he probably made him think he did. Also, I was thinking that Sylar didn't really know who gave him his 1st power. Maybe the Haitian implanted thoughts into him? Parkman's dad? Somebody?

[tommyboy]

Probably a few weeks behind, here in blighty, so bear with my apparent slowness.
So far I'm unimpressed by this latest series/season/volume. It feels weak, the plots feel recycled, the characters are seeming undefined.
If you are going to plunder the ideas of DC and Marvel from the last 60 years, you should be able to do better than this.
I guess you could be kind and say that there are "recurring themes" in the show, rather than that they recycle plots and have few ideas.
It even feels like the action is a bit lacklustre, have they had the SFX budget cut?
I'll keep watching because despite my complaints it remains mildly entertaining, and I'm hoping that they may yet surprise me. But it's not "must see" tv.
I think with series like Heroes, Lost, Xfiles there is a law of diminishing returns that kicks in at season 2, because basically the premises do not support an endless number of episodes. Just my opinion.

[bredon7777]

Last week's episode was pretty much epic fail.

I'll go into detail later, but for now I just wanted to ask: am I the only one who thinks underwater boy-toy looks like teen!Sylar?

[Camma]

First off, I agree with the general consensus of the quality of the show and its direction.

Spoiler

My feelings can be easily summed up in my reaction to the start of this season, which was, "Wait I thought last season was the end?!?"

Now we have same old same old showing up, such as; HRG switching back and forth so we don't know who's side he is on.  Clearly this is cuz the writers want to be able to go any direction.  And did anyone else catch Mrs. HRG saying to Claire how she "doesn't know what she (her mom) is capable of".  I took that as the writers leaving her open to have a secret power by the end of the show.  So typical.

I could probably go on and on, but I just wanted to add that at first i thought Rebel was claire's real mom, but i don't recall her fate at the end of last season (not that it really matters right? they'll still bring people back).  After the last episode, and given the direction of the show, i had this terrible feeling that Rebel will end up being HRG all along 

[Podmark]

I read on EW site that Heroes will be picked up for next season.

It's funny how far Heroes has fallen for me. At the beginning of the season I was quite excited for the show, but now I honestly wouldn't care if I missed an episode - and I'm the type that makes sure to see every episode.

[stumpy]

A couple hours until 319 airs here, so here's my parting shot at 318.

Probably a few weeks behind, here in blighty, so bear with my apparent slowness.
So far I'm unimpressed by this latest series/season/volume. It feels weak, the plots feel recycled, the characters are seeming undefined.
If you are going to plunder the ideas of DC and Marvel from the last 60 years, you should be able to do better than this.
I guess you could be kind and say that there are "recurring themes" in the show, rather than that they recycle plots and have few ideas.

I tend to agree with that assessment. I mean, Heroes isn't an exact copy of X-Men or whatever, but the central themes are very similar. And, I don't mind that, necessarily, because it's a great concept and it hasn't been done on live-action TV. And, it's interesting to see the characters deal with the nexus where science fiction (their abilities) meets the real world (social acceptability, authoritarian impulses by officials, etc.). But, they have to do a good job of it. If the individual episodes are slipshod and the characters' motivations don't make any sense, then it doesn't matter how good the concept is.

It even feels like the action is a bit lacklustre, have they had the SFX budget cut?

Or (referring to 318) maybe they are spending it on the rights to eighties music? 

Spoiler

I'm getting really curious as to who Rebel is.  My two best candidates:

Wireless or Micah

Could be a new character as well, of course, but I'm liking my first guess.

Same thought here. I'd prefer Hana, for obvious reasons, but Micah would be an excuse to bring Dana Davis back.

Also like the twist at the end, for the first time in a long time.

I'm curious how the Bennet gals will handle it. Even aside from their personal issues with Puppet Master, a lot rides on this decision, if the show wants to deal with it. On the one hand, if they are opposed to the feds running a secret internment camp where unindicted people are held without any due process, then they should be against it on general principle, and not just against it when it affects the people they like. On the other hand, they are helping a real bad guy, who by all rights should be tried for his crimes.

Moreover, if it ever comes out that people opposed to the secret prison are helping people like him, it is a real PR victory for the jack boot types. Of course, if they caught him, they would have the same PR victory as they parade him around as the archetypal person with abilities.

Why would Sylar's father coincidentally have the first power Sylar stole from an unrelated guy?

It seems odd, but we don't really know that it is the same power. Obviously, Sylar Senior can cause damage at a distance, but Sylar has a very broad telekinetic ability. He can use it to essentially do surgery and also to throw people through walls. We can't be sure Sylar Senior is really doing that. Also, if Sylar Senior has TK, why is he selling his kid for money? I'm not the world's most creative person, but I am pretty sure I could figure out how to turn that power into cash without trading in my first born.

All that being said, it really did seem like the same power and they went out of their way to make the wound on Sylar's mom look just like the wounds Sylar makes (or used to) when he does his little power-stealing trick. Of course, the writers might later claim that Sylar makes the incision that way because of how deeply he was affected by seeing his mom like that. It would be a little psycho-babble for my tastes, but I wouldn't put it past them.

Additionally, while I totally agree that it's a huge coincidence (if anyone is keeping count of them at this point), it makes far more sense that there would be duplicate powers in the world than that this related genetic mutation somehow results in a totally unique power for everyone who expresses it.

BTW, Sylar's arc is one complication after another, so it wouldn't surprise me if the world's worst father image Sylar Senior has will also turn out to have more shades of gray. (Heh. Yeah, sorry.) It may turn out that he knows he is homicidal and gave up his son to people he thought were less likely to kill him in a fit of anger and hoped young Gabriel would grow up without finding out his father was a murderer. Of course, killing Gabriel's mom in front of his eyes is sort of a weak start on that last bit...

I just don't know about Heroes anymore. Alot of things are just laughable. Why in the blue hell would they even bother trying to capture Aqua-dork? Oh noes, this guy can breathe underwater....he's obviously a threat to everyone. Seriously, shouldn't they be focusing more on people that can blow up things with their minds or other such dangerous powers? Honestly, this whole plot in itself is just ridiculous.

Yeah it is ridiculous, for lots of reasons. I can see a possible rationale in that we don't have any reason to believe that the goon squad has any idea what powers their targets have, they may just know that they have powers. It still strikes me as stupid. On the other hand: an institution with no practical oversight overreacting to vague threats? I can't say it really sounds so unrealistic.

Also, I was thinking that Sylar didn't really know who gave him his 1st power.

I thought we were shown Sylar getting his first acquired power (the TK) back in season one from some random dude who Mohinder's dad tracked down, who didn't really know what he had. If they are turning around and saying he got it from his dad now, then that's a whole new retcon.

[...] but for now I just wanted to ask: am I the only one who thinks underwater boy-toy looks like teen!Sylar?

Yup. That was even more odd to me because I think they introduced Gill (or whatever, I'm too lazy to find his real name) the same week that Sylar picked up his Mini Me character, Luke. And, at the time, I half expected that we were going to find out that Sylar and Luke were half-brothers or something, so it was odd to see another character pop up that looked so much like Sylar.

BTW, no offense to the show for trying to get women interested in cute male characters, but what's the deal with the glasses-then-no-glasses thing with Gill? I'm sorry, but people who need glasses don't just stop wearing their glasses. It's not like they were reading glasses or something and it's not like he left them somewhere else, since he had them at the beginning of the episode.

[thalaw2]

Spoiler

BTW, no offense to the show for trying to get women interested in cute male characters, but what's the deal with the glasses-then-no-glasses thing with Gill? I'm sorry, but people who need glasses don't just stop wearing their glasses. It's not like they were reading glasses or something and it's not like he left them somewhere else, since he had them at the beginning of the episode.

Yes!  I almost lost my dinner watching this "transformation".  He goes from being excited to see a girl in the comics shop to having "game".  What's with that?  Let's try to have some consistent characterization or at least some rationale behind the change.  He's not Clark Kent changing in to Superman.  [/spoiler]