Green Lantern: Blackest Night ***SPOILERS***

[AfghanAnt]

Arthur Joseph Curry wasn't a bad Aquaman, he just wasn't handled correctly by anyone other than Busiek. Besides he had pre-Crisis' Aquaman's origin (which is kinda cool). I always thought it would be interesting if it was revealed that Artie was Arthur Jr.

[Alaric]

Arthur Joseph Curry wasn't a bad Aquaman, he just wasn't handled correctly by anyone other than Busiek. Besides he had pre-Crisis' Aquaman's origin (which is kinda cool). I always thought it would be interesting if it was revealed that Artie was Arthur Jr.

Actually, that was Golden Age Aquaman's origin (waaaaaaay pre-Crisis...)

[BentonGrey]

Arthur Joseph Curry wasn't a bad Aquaman, he just wasn't handled correctly by anyone other than Busiek. Besides he had pre-Crisis' Aquaman's origin (which is kinda cool). I always thought it would be interesting if it was revealed that Artie was Arthur Jr.

Artie being Arthur Jr. I could have lived with, and it would have fixed one of the biggest problems with poor Arthur anyway.  Still, I didn't hate Artie, and I thought that at the end of the series he had turned into a halfway decent character.  Still, they took away a character I loved and shoved a replacement that simply wasn't AS good down my throat.  I don't care for that. 

[AfghanAnt]

Arthur Joseph Curry wasn't a bad Aquaman, he just wasn't handled correctly by anyone other than Busiek. Besides he had *golden age* Aquaman's origin (which is kinda cool). I always thought it would be interesting if it was revealed that Artie was Arthur Jr.

Artie being Arthur Jr. I could have lived with, and it would have fixed one of the biggest problems with poor Arthur anyway.  Still, I didn't hate Artie, and I thought that at the end of the series he had turned into a halfway decent character.  Still, they took away a character I loved and shoved a replacement that simply wasn't AS good down my throat.  I don't care for that. 

I completely understand but do you blame them after what happened to Aquaman? I personally miss Captain Hook Aquaman. That harpoon hand and his angry seadog attitude actually made me like the character. Plus during that time Tempest was actually cool and his resentment towards Arthur made good character development for the both of them.

[BentonGrey]

I've never read much of the PAD series, so I can't say definitively what I feel about that interpretation of the character...HOWEVER, from the echoes of it I've seen in other places, it seems to me that I wouldn't have been too fond of it.  I don't much like having my heroes portrayed as irrational, angry jerks.  The idea that he would be noble, demand respect, that kind of thing...yeah, I can get behind that.  Well, here:

http://frp.unlimited2.net/highlight-on-aquaman/#more-406

Check out number 2.  I will say that, given the disaster the character became after they killed his son, it is hard to blame PAD for that characterization.  All in all, give me Aquaman from the SAG run, or from Justice.  If you want to understand my point of view on Aquaman, (and you've got a few hours ) read that.

[Glitch Girl]

Now see, it was the PAD run that got me to like Aquaman.  I wasn't too fond of the harpoon hand, but the rest really worked for me.  I never saw him as irrational.  Angry, maybe but not all the time nor without a pretty good reason. 

(Admittedly it's been a long time since I read through that run, and my memory's never been the best, but even is, it was one of the books on my pull for a long time, one I looked forward too each month)

[AfghanAnt]

PAD and Morrison (his JLA run) were the best of Aquaman in the 90's. The damage I wrote about is directly connected to Laren, Jurgens (urgh...he is not a good writer or a nice person), The Obsidian Age, and especially Rick Veitch's pirate/LOTR Aquaman. Too much was done to Aquaman too quickly so I completely understood Busiek starting from scratch with Aquaman. It was the perfect time especially considering all the time-punching Superboy Prime was doing. I have a problem with DC always doing this though. I know if Aquaman is in fact resurrected, he'll get a new title it will be good for 20 issues and tank and have something dramatic happen to him yet again.

[BentonGrey]

Morrison's stuff I've read, and it was pretty solid.  I still remember this moment from JLA 1 Million where Aquaman looks someone in the eye, and says something along the lines of "I just swam through the frozen seas of Titan and killed an ancient octupus god.  Don't screw with me."  I could respect Morrison's JLA work (for the most part), and like I said, my actual experience with PAD's work is limited.  I don't know...even though I haven't read many of the issues, I have a pretty good idea of what went on in that series, and there is a lot of it that I don't like.  Obviously I'm speaking mostly about larger trends, and about things that continued to develop after PAD left the book.  PAD was handed a book with certain restraints (including the hook hand, dead son, etc), so his hands were, like most Aquaman writers, tied to a certain extent.

I know what you mean AA...DC just will NOT support Aquaman, and every time the book starts to dip or something, they start playing musical chairs with the creative team or whip another mandated change out of their collective hats.

[AfghanAnt]

PAD was handed a book with certain restraints (including the hook hand..)...

The harpoon hand was PAD's doing, issue 2(?) of Aquaman vol.5. It was right after the mini-series he did.

I know what you mean AA...DC just will NOT support Aquaman, and every time the book starts to dip or something, they start playing musical chairs with the creative team or whip another mandated change out of their collective hats.

I think the problem may be the same problem Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Hawkman, and a lot of other popular character suffer from...they aren't Superman or Batman so they just don't sell as well. I hate to say it but most good writers talents aren't wasted on second tier characters.

[The Enigma]

Morrison's JLA work is, to me, practically the definition of what the character should be (except that weird WW romance subplot - or was that later?). He could hang with the rest of the JLA without having to have every single story set underwater for him to be the hero. In terms of poor writing and especially continuity issues, though, it could be much worse: he could be Hawkman!

[AfghanAnt]

Morrison's JLA work is, to me, practically the definition of what the character should be (except that weird WW romance subplot - or was that later?).

Are you talking about the flirting with Aquaman (because that sort of makes sense they are both royality) or with Batman (again makes sense, she can't have Kal so she goes after Bruce).

He could hang with the rest of the JLA without having to have every single story set underwater for him to be the hero. In terms of poor writing and especially continuity issues, though, it could be much worse: he could be Hawkman!

Very true. I have no clue what to make of the Hawk-family.

[Previsionary]

There's actually quite a few reports that state in the past, if DC couldn't make a tier B and below character sell, they'd slowly begin to drop the book. i specifically recall a creator talking about how his run on Wonder Woman was editorially mandated, chopped up, and was never promoted because most of DC's resources went into Batman and Superman and everyone else fell by the wayside.

Now, how can I rope in more of you to do highlights on your favorite and misused characters?

[AfghanAnt]

There's actually quite a few reports that state in the past, if DC couldn't make a tier B and below character sell, they'd slowly begin to drop the book. i specifically recall a creator talking about how his run on Wonder Woman was editorially mandated, chopped up, and was never promoted because most of DC's resources went into Batman and Superman and everyone else fell by the wayside.

Now, how can I rope in more of you to do highlights on your favorite and misused characters?

It is so sad to know that Wonder Woman would be considered a tier B character when the truth is she has more potential than Superman and Batman. Their stories are told and retold but if someone actually did something amazing with her the title could really work. Don't get me wrong, I love Gail Simone but my god is the title so boringly dull and the art is hard to look at. Even though Allan Heinberg revamp was plagued with delays, it had great art and an action packed adventure for Diana.

[BentonGrey]

PAD was handed a book with certain restraints (including the hook hand..)...

The harpoon hand was PAD's doing, issue 2(?) of Aquaman vol.5. It was right after the mini-series he did.

I know what you mean AA...DC just will NOT support Aquaman, and every time the book starts to dip or something, they start playing musical chairs with the creative team or whip another mandated change out of their collective hats.

I think the problem may be the same problem Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Hawkman, and a lot of other popular character suffer from...they aren't Superman or Batman so they just don't sell as well. I hate to say it but most good writers talents aren't wasted on second tier characters.

No AA, I see how I didn't make that clear, but what I meant was that PAD had some problems going into the book (the dead son) and others that were editorially mandated IN the book (the hook hand).  He wanted to do something a lot more interesting...I can't remember what it was at the moment, but DC forced the hook on him.  Now, the hook isn't NECESSARILY a bad thing, JLU did it and I loved that story and sacrifice...but the way it happens in PAD's book was pretty weak.

I don't think there's much of a question about that AA, and all of those characters have been abused (like The Enigma said, Hawkman is the worst example).  I'm not as familiar with the publication histories of some of the others, so I can't say for sure, but I really do believe that all of these books COULD be at least moderately successful.  The only problem is that it would take a modicum of effort and support from DC.  Johns is interested in writing Aquaman, for example.  I for one would be totally willing to buy an "Adventure Comics" type title (if we were talking about a less crippled DCU) that included Aquaman, Hawkman, The Atom, or whoever.  As a matter of fact, I'd really enjoy that.

[AfghanAnt]

I know you would love if DC's second tier characters were giving the spotlight even in a team book but from a business perspective why would you put your most expensive resources on a product that will lose your company money? You can have artists and writers interested in a character or a title but if it isn't going to make money, a comic company just can't afford to pay talent if the title wont bring in a positive ROI. The same problem happened with Nextwave. It was a cult favorite title but it didn't have mainstream appeal (i.e. sales) so they had to put Warren Ellis and Stuart Immonen on titles that made money.

Maybe, DC will do to Johns what Marvel has done with Bendis but I doubt it. The reason tier 2 characters are resurrected and are heavily featured in Marvel titles are 1) Marvel's flag titles are team books and 2) Bendis likes them (Spiderwoman and Ms Marvel prime examples). A lot of people on this forum hate Bendis but he sells a lot of comics a month for Marvel and for that reason he can do no wrong in their eyes.

Also Marvel has more private held money (due to the success of their movies) and less corporate burden (i.e. no Time Warner playing Mother-May-I) so they have greater control over their IP and can afford to promote lower tier titles (Runaways, Black Panther, and the Marvel Adventure titles).

[BentonGrey]

Well that's the rub, isn't it?  What makes a successful book?  Can a book be profitable, but not successful?  According to DC, yeah, it can.  Obviously DC doesn't always treat books great if they aren't top sellers, and a book with a big name attached to it is obviously going to cost more to produce.  Still, Green Lantern wasn't DC's most successful book (for the same reason, i.e., it wasn't Batman) until Johns started doing neat stuff with it and DC started supporting it out the wazoo.  You also bring up another excellent point, though...the albatross around DC's neck that is Time-Warner.  

[Zivon23]

lanterncorps quiz.

I know I am a bit late on this topic......but........

Me.....Green
My olde lady.....Indigo.
My Step son.....Red.


~Z23~

[The Enigma]

Morrison's JLA work is, to me, practically the definition of what the character should be (except that weird WW romance subplot - or was that later?).

Are you talking about the flirting with Aquaman (because that sort of makes sense they are both royality) or with Batman (again makes sense, she can't have Kal so she goes after Bruce).

The Aquaman flirting. I accept that they come from similar worlds and whatnot, but I'm surprised he went as far as to tell her he loved her and then she just pretended not to hear? Or did she actually not hear at all? I haven't got the issues to check at the moment, but I remember it being somewhere near the end of Morrison's run, or possibly at the beginning of the next one.

[Podmark]

Johns did a run on Booster Gold (with Jeff Katz) that is quite good, though I doubt it's sales were great. And of course he's left by now and it's slipped. So short term DC would probably be willing to put a Johns on say an Aquaman book - and that would probably be somewhat profitable for a while, but eventually they'll want him on something higher profile.

[marhawkman]

Who thinks that the Carol Ferris became Star Sapphire again just so she can check up on Hal?

[BentonGrey]

Johns did a run on Booster Gold (with Jeff Katz) that is quite good, though I doubt it's sales were great. And of course he's left by now and it's slipped. So short term DC would probably be willing to put a Johns on say an Aquaman book - and that would probably be somewhat profitable for a while, but eventually they'll want him on something higher profile.

Well, Aquaman COULD be higher profile, if they supported it properly.

[Previsionary]

If it would stop you from constantly talking about Aqua-dork, Benton, I'd pay DC to erase him from history. Snap.

[BentonGrey]

*Kills Prev....again*

[deano_ue]

[BentonGrey]

Hey, my hero can dance...you're just jealous.

[Ares_God_of_War]

So will aquaman get to talk to dead fish now?

[thanoson]

lol

[murs47]

Who's Aquaman?

[Midnite]

IGN: BLACKEST NIGHT: BATMAN #1 EXCLUSIVE COVER PREVIEW

Blackest Night: Batman

It seems like these BLACKEST NIGHT teaser ads come in pairs

[daglob]

Batman of Earth-2?