The Marvel Thread

[Talavar]

I don't know how long you guys have been collecting comics, but for someone who has been collecting since the late 70's/ early 80's, I have seen a lot of changes in Marvel and here is my theory:
Marvel is working in waves or generation of heroes.  Spidey, Hulk, Cap, Iron Man are consider the first gen.  Heroes like Wolverine, Punisher, Power-man & Iron Fist would be the second gen.  Now we have another generation of heroes: Ms. Marvel, Spider-Man (Miles) Thor (Jane) and so forth.  What do you guys think?

I'd mostly agree with this, but I think that after the second gen, there should also third and fourth gens; the third made up of heroes in the late 80's and the 90's like Darkhawk, the New Warriors, Generation X, etc., and the fourth gen made up of early 00's heroes like the Young Avengers or the New X-Men. Which would make the current crop of heroes the fifth gen by my reckoning.

Seems pretty reasonable, though a couple, like Cap and Namor, should really be an even earlier generation than Spidey, Hulk et al.

[daglob]

I got into a discussion years ago when they started paying royalties on character that a writer/artist created. I was worried that this would make it financially beneficial for the old creations to be wiped out and replaced by new ones. The friends that were in the discussion didn't think that would ever happen. One said that there would always be a Fantastic Four...

[HarryTrotter]

In a way there will be.Maybe not now,but in a few years when Crisis of Infinite Movie Rights is over.
Imo Marvel is sorta fluid like that,one year its about something,another about something else.Nobody cares for Daredevil in years,then he gets a whole event.Iron Man was pretty much forgotten,now he shows up in every comic.
So who knows who will be popular in 2020's or so?

[HarryTrotter]

And we got the resolution to "I quit" teasers.Younger heroes are starting Champions.By Mark Waid and Humberto Ramos.Yey,I totaly missed his artwork...well,not like Im gonna be reading it anyway.
Also,a new Great Lake Avengers series will start in Marvel Now.Because those always worked well in the past.

[daglob]

Marvel has always gone with what was popular, ever since Martin Goodman was the boss. Of course, that was one reason we got the Fantastic Four in the first place.

[HarryTrotter]

Marvel has always gone with what was popular, ever since Martin Goodman was the boss. Of course, that was one reason we got the Fantastic Four in the first place.

Or was it them who created the trends and defined the zeitgeist(s) of comics? 
And on another earlier teaser,Riri Williams is the new Iron Man(not War Machine).Im not sure who that is,but retiring Tony was a weird choice,considering the MCU synergy and all that.

[daglob]

Or was it them who created the trends and defined the zeitgeist(s) of comics? 

Originally Marvel was the follower, but you are right in pointing out that they are the leaders a lot of the time now.

[HarryTrotter]

Well,they have the biggest market share.Its hard to tell does that reflect the actual readership,due to the sales model itself.But yeah,they are the industry leader now,in any case.
Deadpool:Too Soon-Deadpool gathers Marvels funniest characters,like Forbush Man,Howard the Duck,Squirell Girl and Punisher(?),and one of them ends up dead.No prizes for guessing who.

[daglob]

Well, it's not like it matters. It's not like they'll stay dead.

[kkhohoho]

Well, it's not like it matters. It's not like they'll stay dead.

Don't be too sure. Jean Grey (the original, not Teen!Jean from the past,) is still dead, and Gwen Stacey (the original, not Spider!Gwen from a parallel universe,) is still pushing up the daisies. And never mind all of those minor hero and villains still rotting in their graves. So there's a chance that whoever dies, they'll stay dead. Not a great chance, but a chance nonetheless.

[spydermann93]

And RIP Thunderbird I, the proud Apache warrior of the X-Men!

[HarryTrotter]

Its a murder mystery,so I guess Forbush Man has to stay dead for a while.Or he was never dead and this is just his weird plan.It is a Deadpool comic.
Also Ben Rilley,Banshee(I think),Xavier and probably a few other mutants.And a lot of people from Exiles.

[HarryTrotter]

http://www.newsarama.com/30017-marvel-s-death-of-x-fills-in-the-post-secret-wars-x-inhumans-gap.html
Death of X covers the 8 months post Secret Wars that were time-skipped.So the question of what Cyclops did will be answered.Which we kinda guessed already?
And another funny story,a new IM  series-Infamous Iron Man is starting in Marvel Now.Supposedly,Victor Von Doom takes over as Iron Man after Tony retires.
So the earlier teaser was about 2 sides fighting for a legacy name?That is...almost clever.

[kkhohoho]

And another funny story,a new IM  series-Infamous Iron Man is starting in Marvel Now.Supposedly,Victor Von Doom takes over as Iron Man after Tony retires.

It's going to be Superior Spiderman all over again, isn't it?

[daglob]

Somehow I think Vic's ego will require that everyone know who the new Iron Man is.

I guess Vic needs a hobby now that Reed's gone...

[HarryTrotter]

And another funny story,a new IM  series-Infamous Iron Man is starting in Marvel Now.Supposedly,Victor Von Doom takes over as Iron Man after Tony retires.

It's going' be Superior Spiderman all over again, isn't it?

We already had Superior Iron Man,so Infamous it is.Thou,I have seen theories that this is Kristoff,not Victor,but I haven't been following current IM series so I cant tell does that make sense.And something tells me next(ish) event will be Armor Wars(again).Two groups of people led by an Iron Man facing off?We can see where this is going.

[HarryTrotter]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/tag/marvelnow/
Once again.via 4chan,Bleeding Cool has the scoop on Marvel Now(2)

Spoiler

Richard Rider is back.So is Namor.Darker Avengers series.Ongoings for Solo,Slapstick and Foolkiller.Thats like 10-11 Deadpool-family titles?Ongoings for Kingpin,Bullseye and Thanos.Unstoppable Wasp.Venom is back to Earth.Renew Your Vows again.Looks like that Spider-family made a jump to the regular universe,in the style of Lois and Clark.A Prowler series.
And most importantly,not a single X-men title in sight.Not.A.SINGLE.ONE.Perlmutter finally did it...

[kkhohoho]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/tag/marvelnow/
And most importantly,not a single X-men title in sight.Not.A.SINGLE.ONE.

You forgot Death of X.

[HarryTrotter]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/tag/marvelnow/
And most importantly,not a single X-men title in sight.Not.A.SINGLE.ONE.

You forgot Death of X.

Not really,this era comes after Death of X.
And yeah,I think that name is quite literal.

[HarryTrotter]

I guess that confirms it.
RIP X-men 1963-2016.

[daglob]

So... no X-Men, no Fantastic Four?

[spydermann93]

I guess the closest thing to X-Men is "Uncanny Avengers"

*sigh* At least DC's doing well

[Talavar]

Captain Marvel's getting another #1?  Didn't they just relaunch her series?  Also, a new #1 for Nova--could Richie Ryder be back headlining?

[daglob]

Captain Marvel's getting another #1?  Didn't they just relaunch her series?  Also, a new #1 for Nova--could Richie Ryder be back headlining?

...or could it be a plot to get money from all the people who gave their comic shop instructions to pull all #1s...

[spydermann93]

Captain Marvel's getting another #1?  Didn't they just relaunch her series?  Also, a new #1 for Nova--could Richie Ryder be back headlining?

You know Marvel and their #1's. It's like DC and their Crises

[HarryTrotter]

Yes,Richard is back,I said that in the spoiler above.
I said a few weeks back,that there is just no way Marvel would cancel 4-6 titles just to spite Fox.Well,they are dumber then I gave them credit for.
Not like Fox makes money from the sales of COMICS.3 team titles still sold over 50 000 each,so why cancel them?
So,for the first time in 53 years,there will be no X-men comics on the (proverbial) stands.A black day for the fans.

[crimsonquill]

I said a few weeks back,that there is just no way Marvel would cancel 4-6 titles just to spite Fox.Well,they are dumber then I gave them credit for.
Not like Fox makes money from the sales of COMICS.3 team titles still sold over 50 000 each,so why cancel them?
So,for the first time in 53 years,there will be no X-men comics on the (proverbial) stands.A black day for the fans.

Thank the management suits between FOX and Marvel not sharing.. so mutants/X-Men are being written out of active X-Titles because they ALL agree that promoting competition is a bad idea so FOX now has the Mutants to themselves AND Marvel has to put them into a dark corner.

FOX is finally getting an X-MEN series pilot which follows an all-new New Mutant entering the world of the X-Men Universe and hopefully connecting into the '80s-'90s universe that X-Men Apocalypse set up. When you have a whole new world to establish post Days Of Future Past and nothing but Deadpool and New Mutants on the horizon then you have to build quickly using whatever shows you can. With HELLFIRE CLUB and LEGION being pushed into FX cable territory because of darker content then you need to push an X-MEN title forward somewhere. Even more clues that FOX may have let the rights for Fantastic Four lapse back to Marvel Studios for Phase Four in return for pushing forward with merchandising (for the movies and TV shows) and FULL TV show rights.

- CQ

[HarryTrotter]

http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135761-heres-all-the-promo-art-for-those-leaked-marvel-now-books.html
The promo art for new titles.Hey,lets get rid of anyone people might care about in the new Avengers,relaunch it as U.S.Avengers and add Red Hulk with a mustache and 'uge gunz-its EXTREME.

@Crimsonquill Surely there is more to a series them just movie promotion?Cant it just be its own thing,unrelated to movies?Obviously not at Marvel.And for someone not keen at promoting the competition,they have an awful lot of Deadpool titles.
Ofc,we might all be wrong and there will be relaunch of X-men post Death of X.Doubt that,but I guess it could happen.
And its really time to face the fact-Synergy doesn't work.You will not sell a million issues of something just because there is a movie around.Millions of people will not rush out of the cinema and go buy comics.It just doesn't happen.

[crimsonquill]

@Crimsonquill Surely there is more to a series them just movie promotion?Cant it just be its own thing,unrelated to movies?Obviously not at Marvel.And for someone not keen at promoting the competition,they have an awful lot of Deadpool titles.

I meant that like they introduce us to someone like say Goldenballs (for an obsure example) who has an ackward social life in school already as an outcast.. suddenly one morning his powers are unleashed and creates lots of property damage. The MRDs are called in (obviously not Sentinels because the CGI would be way too expensive so of course we get guys with military gear) and then everyone freezes and we get our cameos from the B-Level X-Men (with someone like Cordelia Frost, the younger Frost sister) with her team. They get away and we get to the mansion and see our cameos of '80s Cyclops and Jean along with Xavier welcoming this new student to the school. All of the stuff that usually is cut from the X-Movies lately seems to be those moments of students hanging out playing baseball, going to class, being social, hanging at the mall even... those are cut because the Singerverse movies have to be "darker and more serious" but in a TV series we have more room for that. This series can introduce us the student body and probably tie into New Mutants which should be coming out the same year. FOX has room to seed cameos of the A-Level movie X-Men over a 22-episode arc. They have to use the new cast they established.. we are NOT going to get another major recasting of everyone so the X-Men series can be the '90s cartoon show in live action. I really doubt FOX has the CW level jimmies to throw something like the budget of Legends Of Tomorrow into a flagship series so it can be X-Men Lite until Singer returns from filming 2,000 Leagues Under The Sea (which is a 2 year project and why the movies are going to focus on Deadpool 2 and New Mutants in theaters). FOX also can't afford the risk of making the show Agents Of SHIELD either with barely any cameos at all and just dancing around the edge of their mutant universe because it would step on movie continuity.

- CQ

[HarryTrotter]

I meant the comic series(several of them) that got canceled,not the upcoming TV series.Which I obviously cant judge yet.

Whole welding of comics and movies is what bothers me.Your not really attracting any new readers that way.Or at least not any notable numbers.
Suppose a regular muggle,who never heard of,lets say,Nighthawk,sees the Nighthawk movie and likes it.Will he/she run off to buy the newest Nighthawk #1 and all of its 20 variant covers?Probably not.Will the regular readers be mad because they got a number #1 instead of number #483 they expected?Probably yes.
So in the end the company loses more then it gained.

Lets face it,if you read DC or Marvel in the 21. century its because your a life time fan.There haven't been new readers to the Big Two since 1997.And movies wont change that.You just risk alienating the current readership with the movies-to-comics approach.