The Marvel Thread

[HarryTrotter]

Well,the situatuon isnt that bad outside Marvel and DC.Its just that they are the most exposed.
Deadpool #14 "Are we getting rebooted again?"Because the sky was red.Get it?And Cable is here.Just like the previous Civil War.Not gonna spoil it for anyone,but its a funny situation.

[Silver Shocker]

Fixer was working there,I think.Abe also,I guess.Thou I have no idea how Moonstone got there.I lost track of her after Dark Avengers/Thunderbolts.But universe got rebooted so who knows what changed.

I actually finished reading Parker's Dark Avengers recently. After time-travelling shenanigans Moonstone ended up with Carol Danvers Captain Marvel costume  (inexplicably didn't change back by the end of the book) when seemingly killed Al Apeac by stepping on him (he was tiny for reasons I can't remember) without anyone noticing.

Spoiler

The problem with Fixer was he was in fact imprisoned with the others. Remember the big reveal at the end of the first Standoff one shot with him and Zemo? Since the recap for TBolts claims their criminal past caught up with them, the only reason I can think of is because he was slipping away to help Zemo during Parker's run and Zemo's appearances in Brubaker's Cap, which was happening at the same time. The actual reason is course, is the writers just wanted to have the T-Bolts there and weren't too concerned with the why and hows. Yet they made a point of having Abe as a staff member there instead of a prisoner. Whatever.

[HarryTrotter]

^IIRC,he also did some freelancing in Cable an Deadpool.
Maybe the pool paintings got him arrested? XD
About Moonstone-Im still missing the time between Dark Avengers and Standoff.Did she resurface in Captain Marvel,maybe?

[Silver Shocker]

I actually looked up Moonstone when I finished Dark Avengers. Apparently she didn't appear at all until now.

[HarryTrotter]

At best-mismatched.IDK who had the idea of teaming up a D&D writer with a Liefeld wannabe artist and expected good results.Just imagine Thunderbolts by Mark Waid and Mark Bagley.But like,in a perfect world.
About Standoff,did new Quasar show up anywhere?Did that have a point anyway?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/16/civil-war-the-fallen-to-get-a-jack-kirby-variant-cover/
Rich has a theory that Hulk will die in CW2.His first theory was that Mary Jane will die.If you list everyone,you have to be right.

[Silver Shocker]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/16/civil-war-the-fallen-to-get-a-jack-kirby-variant-cover/
Rich has a theory that Hulk will die in CW2.His first theory was that Mary Jane will die.If you list everyone,you have to be right.

Like I said before, clickbait merchant. All his articles might as well read: "10 poorly-reported controversies that guarantee me hits! #9 will shock you!" With the obligatory misleading thumbnail.

Yeah, Mark Waid and Bagley on T-Bolts needs to just happen.
Speaking of which I forgot to mention Ghost has actually been appearing in Slott's Spidey man. Don't look at me like that, last I checked he's fine in it. Hopefully Slott won't kill him to put another notch on his belt and establish his run matters + stakes are high for realz yo desu ka.
Maybe when Slott finally gets canned for insulting his audience too many times and Zub and Malin get fired for sucking we'll get a better team on T-Bolts and Ghost will glide on over to there.

Not yet. That hasn't come up again. Considering a lot of people found that debut a little half-a$$ed and cliched, maybe they're holding off? I will see, I'm not a fan of the whole "let's have a established character pop up out of nowhere then make up a bunch of b.s. that was not in play last time for the sake of our current story whims" The bigger surprise is that it wasn't written by Bendis.

Speaking of which.....

Guardians of the Galaxy:

Spoiler

So after darn near a year we finallyget an explanation as to why Kitty and Gamora lost their Black Vortex powers. They fade over time, and in the case of Gamora, she was saving it so she could raise her power level later on Dragon Ball Z style. That isn't even her final form! 

Also, since I brought this up earlier in the thread: memo to Bendis: making up bullcrap a year + down the line to answer long-running questions fans had and playing it up as a big reveal is not a suitable excuse for "I'm too lazy and didn't want to fit it in".

Also we finally find out who the prisoner the Guardians have been trying to rescue for the last few issues is, and it's....Angela. Guldarnit. Admittedly, I'd have known that ahead of time if I actually remember anytime about GotG between issues at this point but they really did have me hoping that it was going to be a Guardians character people actually like and care about, like Mantis. Marvel, stop trying to make Angela happen.

[HarryTrotter]

Yeah,Hulk will die,no wait MJ,no Jean Grey,wait shes dead already,yeah Elf with a Gun,lets go with that...
Since Wendell shows up in Standoff only to pass on his powers,I assumed thats gonna go somewhere.If you introduce a new character,do something with them,I guess?
Bendis is still on GotG?That puts him at what,12-13 monthly titles?
Noob question,is this still the same Angela from Spawn?Who somehow made a jump to Marvel universe and is now Thors halfsister?Am I close?
And to return to earlier Steve Rogers,Agent of Hydra thing-meta irony sets in that it was out on the  same day as DC Rebirth,so it ended up making Johns-es case about modern comics.

[Silver Shocker]

Yeah, same Angela. The only thing I'm not clear about is if Angela has the Image history/memories and honestly I don't care. Like with Rom Marvel will have to keep vague about it anyway.
What point was that? The modern "darken-ing" of comics? Cuz Marvel's been supplying that since at least the original Civil War. Not in short supply at all. Plus John's been accused of being hypocritical about that point more than once as it is. I saw one amusing comment online, where someone said, while reading Rebirth, they had to stop every 2 minutes to say "and whose fault was that, Johns?" And I don't rag on Johns, cuz I like his work, but the guy ain't wrong (though I'd probably point the blame squarely on Didio, who doesn't even have the good stories to back it up)

[HarryTrotter]

I said pretty much the same thing about Rebirth myself,that Johns and his 3 buddies at DC editorial share a lot of blame for darkening.(And all the fault for New 52.)DC actually has some 2 years on Marvel there.Identity Crisis and that.Which now got retconed anyway according to Secret Six.But thats for the DC thread.
Just sorta ironic that a pretty dark twist happens on the same day Rebirth tries to "brighten" stuff at DC.We are not so dark as the competition.Or something.
Also,the twist isnt that original(or that plausible btw),considering Spiderwoman also worked for Hydra.Or was that the Skrull Queen?Its Bendis. 
And Wolverine was also brainwashed by them during Enemy of the State.Notably he kills Northstar then.But he didnt kill anyone important,right?In his own words.

[Silver Shocker]

I'm sure that was a great condolence to Hornet's teammates from Slingers. 

[HarryTrotter]

It was Mark Millar,so...yeah...
Wolverine: You killed Professor X!
Cyclops: You killed thousands!
W: Well,I didnt kill anyone important.
Thats the actual dialogue from Jason Aaron.No wonder people hated Wolverine.
On the other hand,killing heroes to prove villains are "for real,yo" is kind of a norm at Marvel.Like the entire Alpha Flight,just to prop up The Collective/Xorn.Or Jack Flag,in the most recent case.
The competition isnt all that better either.Looking at you Venditti and your future/Flash.

[Silver Shocker]

Ok, seriously, EVERY instance of that debate in the X-Men comics was cringe-inducing. Particularly the "Last Will of Xavier" arc by Bendis were Cyclops and Wolverine interrupted the plot to get into it again, someone made a smart-alek remark resulting in Cyclops blowing a hole through the window AGAIN (see Astonishing X-Men #1), and they called out on it by the other X-Men themselves, who were as sick of it as the readers by that point. I understand there was a personal element at work, but these two leader figures were reduced to petulant children (admittedly, almost everybody in Bendis world has a tendency to act more childish than they should)

The reason why I so heavily criticize the C-list cannon fodder trope is not just because it's cliche and predictable at this point, nor exploitative and manipulative, nor that it takes characters people might want to read about or that you could re-energize (*cough Squirrel Girl*, *cough* Deadpool*)off the board, but that I hear both fans and writers talk about the art of the story, yet 99.99% of these stories barely even acknowledged who these characters are, let alone why we should care or why people liked them in the first place. Some don't even bother to identify the characters onscreen. See also the character assassination of Hank Pym in Rage of Ultron (which is currently being repaired in Uncanny Avengers). We only value Hank because of OTHER STORIES that came before, not what we're presented with in the new story.

This is why I almost always give an enthusiastic pass to the same trope in other media. Particularly when they were born of the exact same singular series. You won't see me complain about a death in Game of Thrones like I do here. Ditto say, the manga series FullMetal Alchemist, or the anime Fate/Zero, or heck, even Naruto. They build up the character, so we do care what happens to them. You know, like a good story. Good movies, including ones based on Marvel properties, tend to do this too. (some better than others of course. *cough Cyclops in X3*)

Oh don't get me wrong. I like Johns a lot, but he does that crap in darn near every story he writes, especially the event books. Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters in Infinite Crisis, EVERYONE who got it from Superboy Prime, the obscure Doom Patrol members in Forever Evil. Once again, I give him a pass specifically because the stories are in fact good.

[HarryTrotter]

Well,Superboy Prime ripping off somebodies arm and beating them to death with it tended to happen a lot.
Character deaths are one thing,but if its just for Worf Effect,its pretty pointless.Once again-Bendis.We get that Sentry is Superman,he didnt have to rip up Carnage (in orbit)for readers to figure that out.Excessive?

Considering who they leaders were in the Marvel Now era,Im surprised mutants still exist.See Cable and X-force.Or call-me-Alex speech.
Also,CW2 related,Tony is attacking Attilan?So its only bad when Cyclops does it?

[Silver Shocker]

Considering how much Marvel's shilling the Inhumans, I'd root for Tony. If you have to kill anybody, kill the Inhumans. Except the ones I like, of course. 

Bendis with Carnage is a perfect example. When he was writing the Venom arc of the original Ultimate Spider-Man arc (which was actually really good, except for that atrocious pacing he's known for), he was asked in an interview if he'd ever do Carnage. His answer was telling: "No. Carnage is crap." Fast forward later to the Carnage arc of USM, and he does Carnage (and Bagley being Bagley, does a bang up job drawing him), but completely changes the character's backstory and premise. Fast forward again to New Avengers, and Carnage appears strictly so Bendis can kill him, perplexingly, without any sign of the human host within the Carnage body; something that got explored years later. And yes, I realize I have a double standard, since that counts as the same thing I complained about earlier. The difference is it was an author's saving throw. The writer, Zeb Wells if I recall, was undoing it and revitalizing Carnage. Now several non-stop minis later, he has his own ongoing series. Mission accomplished.

[HarryTrotter]

I think everybody roots for Tony at this point.
Ultimate Spiderman was good,and Daredevil by Bendis was pretty good.Truble started with Avengers.Then spread to X-men and GotG and basically everything else.I guess its more the fault of Marvel editorial for not realizing what his strengths are.
And speaking of Spiderman:

Begun the Clone wars,have.You know the drill by now-massive,game changing,nothing will ever be the same,yada-yada,Clone Saga 2 and so on.
And the guy with the jackal mask-THE JACKAL.Mindblowing,I know.
Here is how Dan Slott describes it:
We live in a day and age of comics where you're always seeing another important death. 'Here's someone who dies!' We're subverting all of that. Here's people coming back.

[Silver Shocker]

We live in a day and age of comics where you're always seeing another important death. 'Here's someone who dies!'

And whose fault is that, Slott?

We're subverting all of that. Here's people coming back.

Blackest Day did that over 5 years ago. Premise has potential, but I don't expect something satisfying from Slott. I doubt believe he'll bring back any of the characters I'd like to see come back (aka the ones that never should have been killed off in the first place) and even if he did I doubt it'll stick. Slott likes to talk in interviews of the "Monkey's Paw" ("be careful what you wish for") he plays off and exploits fan's expectations. In short, he be trolling.

Also, why the crap is he doing a mini outside the main book? Slott can barely get his regular ongoing out on time on a regular basis since he wastes time online arguing with fans. Maybe he's coasting on the fact that Cheung's doing it so it'll come out late no matter what and it'll get a free pass because of that.

[HarryTrotter]

A previous teaser showed everyone who died in Spider-books.Its on a page or two back.
Spider Island already revisited Clone Saga,so this is sorta like Clone Saga 3.Or Spider Island 2?
Also Necrosha did a similar thing like Blackest Night.And contrary to Slotts opinion,people coming back to life isnt that groundbreaking.

[HarryTrotter]

This is the teaser I was talking about.
Unrelated,CW2 will have Jack Kirby  variant covers.Hmm,that isnt exactly right after everything Marvel did to Kirby and his legacy.

[Tomato]

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/204647/nazi-captain-america?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=post&utm_content=The%20New%20Nazi%20Captain%20America%20Is%20the%20Hero%20That%20Bigoted%20Comic%20Book%20Fans%20Deserve&utm_campaign=june2016

Interesting take on the Captain America thing I came across via Tumblr. I'm not sure how to feel about this, tbh... On the one hand, if this was the reason for it, I do absolutely get it. On the other... I feel like a character should transcend the pettiness of the fandom. Personally, I like both "Red, White and Black" AND "Captain America: Sam Wilson"... one for adding to the lore of the Captain America mythos, and the other for giving a Cap's long standing partner his due.

[Silver Shocker]

See, that's an interesting take...but my problem with it, kind of ties in your comment about the character transcending the fandom. Until now I actually had never heard that people thought of McDuffie's JLA run as a "black people book" I just enjoyed it as a Justice League book with characters and villains ect. that interested me. I had no idea there was backlash to Sam Jackson being the likeness to Nick Fury (though I remember thinking it a pretty funny example of the Ultimate line changing stuff from what you recognized as it went). And I haven't really thought about "The Truth: Red, White and Black" in a long time (though it helps that one of the Young Avengers has a connection to that story) but I didn't really remember how much of a backlash there was to that. Anyway, what I mean to say I feel like sabotaging the character and the direction of the book (if you were to call it sabotaging, I suppose) to spite a group of people who complained is kinda unfair to everybody else who just wanna read their Captain America. Keep in mind, I have no problem with Sam as Cap. I think it's cool and I've enjoyed him in the books I've read (such as ALL New Avengers). I do want to read the current run at some point. But I'd also want to read the Steve book. I'd want to read both. So I feel like that's kinda unfair to me. Selfish I suppose, but I think that's how I feel. I feel like, with all the political digs that are apparently in Spencer's run, they could have found a different way to get that point/theme across, without mucking around with the character.

As for people who won't get it, well, from what I've seen, Spencer's run isn't very subtle about the political digs, so I imagine the commentary will be clear in the book. After, the meta message of DC's Rebirth was loud and clear.

Throwing everybody who doesn't like the reveal in with the bigots is unfair too. I seriously doubt the people calling it disrespectful to the Jewish creators are the same people complaining about Sam. Other people just don't like seeing a hero turn heel, especially in the modern stunt-driven market Marvel's become.

On the other hand, we don't know how it's going to end, though people have their theories. The final story could be really rad and make sense. I do remember there was a backlash about bringing back Bucky as the Winter Soldier, and that ended up being one of the best storylines they ever did, and I really the character (or the version of that character I suppose) we got out of it.

[HarryTrotter]

Its a tumbler rant...so...
That being said.just like everything-This is going to be forgotten by the time next writer takes over.After that it will take its place on a figurative shelf next to Clone Saga and The Crossing and be mentioned only by bad comic book reviewers.So why make a fuss about it,in any case?

[Silver Shocker]

Actually the article wasn't from Tumblr. Tomato just said he saw it linked to or posted from Tumblr.

[daglob]

The body type of the guy in the Anubis mask looks more like Norman Osborne than Miles Warren. Of course, with different artists, anything is possible.

[HarryTrotter]

Actually the article wasn't from Tumblr. Tomato just said it saw it link to or posted or Tumblr.

Anyway,it wasnt exactly balanced.Since it kinda paints all Marvel detractors as one monolithical,monochrome group.Then links them to Gamersgate and KKK.
Thou,the readership is a lot smaller and way more flamable then it was,say,20 years ago.And they have the internet now.
I still cant remember people raging over Nick Fury or mentioned JLA run.I cant even remember people raging over Josiah X.
Again,lets not give Spencer more credit then he deserves.DC was doing a not-reboot that day and Marvel just did something to compeate with that.Thou why to they bother compeating with somebody way below them in sales is beyond me.Its not a political/social/racial commentary.Its a gimmick to sell new issue #1.Same as a variant cover.
Also,remember that Hydra brainwashes people.See Wolverine example.Implanting fake memories probably isnt a big deal.And there is the 50's Steve.

[Silver Shocker]

Yep, I didn't appreciate the Gamer Gate dig myself but I didn't bring it up in the final post because some people online (on other forums ect) get upset if you bring up such things. The irony is the Gamer Gate movement has well-meaning people associated with it who get lumped in with the trolls and jerks who make everyone else look bad. The other side gets it bad too, really. Same thing with people who don't like the new Ghostbusters. I read a fantastic Tumblr post the other day from a female Ghostbusters fan who found the strawman tactics just as obnoxious as many of us dudes do.

I was rolling my eyes with this Cap thing when it first came out (#2 isn't even out yet, is it? I haven't checked) but honestly with the passage of time my opinion has changed a bit and I'm not sure what to think.

Again,lets not give Spencer more credit then he deserves.DC was doing a not-reboot that day and Marvel just did something to compeate with that.Thou why to they bother compeating with somebody way below them in sales is beyond me.Its not a political/social/racial commentary.Its a gimmick to sell new issue #1.Same as a variant cover.

Eh, I don't know if I agree with that honestly. The thing is, that's one week with the DC book. After that, you have to keep writing this controversial storyline for at least a few months. That's a pretty bold story to be writing and flak to get (though I'm not even sure Marvel cares after all these years) for the wrong reasons, and Spencer IS a outspoken liberal (not hating, I'm one too) and the political references in the run are decidedly left-wing. Did Marvel actually know the book would launch alongside Rebirth all along? I don't actually know.

Now, going back to that article, it mentions Marvel's editor-in-chief (which would have been Quesada at the time) saying the backlash was nothing but a bunch of bigots when an argument was raised about the continuity (I seem to recall I was wondering about the continuity myself back in the day when I heard about the story). That's equally as disingenuous and manipulative as anything Tom Breevort has to say these days (mind you, I don't think I have to convince comic fans that Quesada of all people is a jerk).

On the topic of Spidey, I'm seeing articles that say that a follow up to One More Day may be in the works. Even ignoring the stuff we discussed earlier, there's quite a few references to it in a recent Amazing Spider-Man, something they usually avoid doing for no reason. I'm actually surprised there haven't been way more discussion of this online. I guess it's just been so long that a lot of people have moved on to other things and I think there's a good chance a lot of the people who are currently reading Amazing don't really care about One More Day anyway or prefer a non-married Spidey anyway.That being said, CBR took the opportunity to run another poll about whether Peter and MJ should be married and last I checked the pro-marriage side won by a massive landslide. Pretty good considering the massive glut of Slott/Wacker sycophants that CBR's community has been full of for years.

[HarryTrotter]

But with such an opening,maybe people will buy #2?
Like I said,its going to be forgotten anyway soon.Dream,Hoax,Imaginary Story,Body snatchers from dimension X...
Im not following Spencers run(I did caught up with his Ant-man,thou,fun stuff) and I dont care much for politics anyway.Or for Red Skull VS Immigration.
American Flagg,Judge Dredd America-now those were political commentaries worth reading.Pretty much only ones worth reading.

[Silver Shocker]

You ever read V for Vendetta? I loved the movie, but I've heard the comic was a lot better. Unfortunately, I never finished it (and the parts I did read, which was about the first issue or two, was almost exactly the same as the movie). Of course, now the mask is know more for the internet group anonymous, but that might actually work in V's favor, since he was always a terrorist and an anarchist to begin with.

[HarryTrotter]

Still havent so I cant judge.I heard Alan Moore hated the movie.Knowing him,kinda expected.
According to a google search,only reason Angela is in Marvel universe is because Neil Gaiman wanted to troll Todd Mcfarlane.She wasnt exactly interesting in Spawn to begin with.
Btw,is Thing now with the GotG?At this point Im not sure who benefits from Wolverine publicity there,The Thing or Guardians.

[Silver Shocker]

Yeah, but it's Alan Moore. I'm not sure it's possible to make an adaptation of his work he'd approve of. Even the much quoted JLU "Man Who Has Everything" urban legend was debunked.
The main difference between the movie and the comic as I understand it is that the movie's reworked to be a take that at the George Bush war on terror, while in the comic (published in a U.K. magazine originally in the 80's) it was a take that at Margaret Thatcher whose policies I know pretty much nothing about. I think if the comic's really good, and it was good enough to make into a really good movie, then that stuff will resonate regardless.
Watchman I thoroughly enjoyed. The changes were a bit of a disappointment (no jumping out of the fridge = epic fail; the bone crunching thing was kinda juvenile and nonsensical), but it was very faithful otherwise in a way no comic book movie is (you'd have to go to a Lord of the Rings or a YA novel series for something comparable).

As for Thing? He sure is. You must have forgotten when you quoted Bendis as saying he wanted "Jews in space".
Guardians is a weird book post Secret Wars. It feels WAY lower profile, like it's just quietly doing its thing and everybody (including me reading it) kinda ignores it and forgets it even exists. I always seem to forget where it left off between issues due to a lack of investment. Compare that to last year when we had the Black Vortex crossover.
But it's got nothing on Nova, whose main plot got stolen by All New All Different Avengers (there's a scene that's in both books, but otherwise Nova gets sidetracked for what I only assume is filler pointlessness for the Civil War II tie-in). I'm kinda expecting Nova to get cancelled in a year or so at this point.

[HarryTrotter]

His words,not mine.Like I said,I have a lot going on these days,so forgive me If I forget something.Just hundreds of things I have to think about.Life,what can I say.
Adding Iron Man,Venom and Captain Marvel was a bit of an overkill the last time.Post 2008 Tony took Wolverines job of appearing in every comic,I guess.
Johnny is with the Inhumans IIRC.So is Beast.How doesn't that kill him,actually?

I think V is not a super soldier in the comic.Or something along those line.Speaking of Thatcher policies and it commentaries,you should see Jaime Delano's Hellblazer.(Thou,bankers being demons is a pretty timeless thing.)Also,government is hunting hippies,to feed fear to some elder entity.