The Marvel Thread

[HarryTrotter]

That sums it up nicely.
And it was Uncle Ben thats Dead No More,along with everyone else who died in Spiderman comics?
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/18/is-that-the-return-of-uncle-ben-in-spider-man-dead-no-more/
And Deadpool and Mercs for Money will be an ongoing series.Because YOU demanded it!

[BentonGrey]

'Hey, you remember that really promising idea that we utterly ruined the first time!  Well, we're all set to ruin it again!'

[kkhohoho]

And it was Uncle Ben thats Dead No More,along with everyone else who died in Spiderman comics?
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/18/is-that-the-return-of-uncle-ben-in-spider-man-dead-no-more/

Oh for the love of...

[HarryTrotter]

And it was Uncle Ben thats Dead No More,along with everyone else who died in Spiderman comics?
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/18/is-that-the-return-of-uncle-ben-in-spider-man-dead-no-more/

Oh for the love of...

Nobody thought they would do something so stereotypical,so thats probably why they did it.
And Cullen Bun gets another title.Maybe hiring some new writers wouldnt be a bad idea,they kinda stretched out these out.Seems like Bendis is the only "big name" writer they have left.

[BentonGrey]

After the disaster that was Bunn's run on Aquaman, I would avoid anything else he was asked to write.

[HarryTrotter]

Currently hes writing 3 titles at Marvel,1 at DC,and 2-3 for Dark Horse and Oni Press.Thats just overkill.

[daglob]

Sometimes I miss Stan Lee...
... and Roy Thomas...
...and Marv Wolfman...
...and Chris Claremont...
...and Len Wein...
...and Tony Isabella...
...and Steve Skeats...
...and Joe Gill...
...and "Grass Green"...
...and Doug Monech...
...and Richard E. Hughes and company...
...and

[JeyNyce]

So here's my question:

With Spidey making a deal with the devil and the whole recent Secret Wars thing, does anybody remembers the first Civil War??  You figure you would learn from your mistakes

[daglob]

That doesn't happen in comics. This is why Johnny Storm always learns his lesson, becomes mature, and leaves behind the childishness and impulsiveness of youth and three issues later he is an immature schnook and the cycle starts again.

Booster Gold had the same problem. I'm sure there are others.

[HarryTrotter]

So here's my question:

With Spidey making a deal with the devil and the whole recent Secret Wars thing, does anybody remembers the first Civil War??  You figure you would learn from your mistakes

i assumed thats why hes facepalming.Btw,fun fact,in an issue just before OMD,Peter talks to (its heavily hinted) God,who tells him everything will be okay and that he will be rewarded for his heroism.Obviously,Peter has a memory of a goldfish.

That doesn't happen in comics. This is why Johnny Storm always learns his lesson, becomes mature, and leaves behind the childishness and impulsiveness of youth and three issues later he is an immature schnook and the cycle starts again.

Booster Gold had the same problem. I'm sure there are others.

To be fair,Johnny learns to be mature several times.It last until a new writer takes over.

[daglob]

To be fair,Johnny learns to be mature several times.It last until a new writer takes over.

This is kind of my point

[HarryTrotter]

Well,comics are a self canibalising medium.Thing tend to repeat after a while.
http//:www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/134810-c2e2-marvel-announces-mighty-men-of-marvel-variant-theme.html
Marvels newest pitch(along with actually printing Daily Bugle).Weird thing is,nobody is complaining that is sexualised and that real men dont look like that.

[daglob]

So, we're talking about he Chippendale Age of Marvel Comics?

[BentonGrey]

Well...I think they have slightly misread their audience.

[HarryTrotter]

Only Deadpool and Doctor Strange covers fit the theme.Others are just people in full costumes standing around.Just like regular covers.
Btw,anyone remembers Marvel swimsuit editions?

[detourne_me]

You guys know that site is a joke, right?
I believe it's satirizing how March is the Women of Power month, yet every other month men are on the covers in the same poses.

[HarryTrotter]

No,really?
You do know that covers are still real,right?
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/c2e2-mighty-men-of-marvel-take-over-julys-variants
Exactly same article on CBR.The one actually listed under source.

[detourne_me]

Holy crow, they are actually doing it?
That's pretty funny then! I kinda wish they did go more beefcake for laughs (just no Skullkini like Punisher had in the swimsuit edition)

[HarryTrotter]

Shield mole in New Avengers was

Spoiler

Songbird.

Huh.
I finally got around to reading Spider Island.Fun event,even if a bit chaotic.Points for fixing Jackal,And Kaine;his later series was great.
And there is another cancellation

[Silver Shocker]

Shield mole in New Avengers was

Spoiler

Songbird.

Huh.

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm cool with that one. I'll wait and see if they give it a good justification but I fear Ewing will screw up the character with that this.

I finally got around to reading Spider Island.Fun event,even if a bit chaotic.Points for fixing Jackal,

I'm curious what you mean by "fixing" Jackal. I found they (aka Slott) just played him to the nines and let him be the ridiculous, hammy, his-motives-make-no-damn-sense-but-whatever cartoon character that he was in the nineties.

And Kaine;his later series was great.

Disagree, Kaine got turned "un-decaying" because the plot said so, which was a recurring justification for a lot of the stuff that happened in his book. Been meaning to give my thoughts on his book since you've brought it up once before. I've never understood why people like his solo. It had weak art most of the time, relied on guest stars because the actual characters weren't strong enough to carry the book, had a truly annoying, unlikable, badly written kid character (Aracaly), and displayed a blatant double standard for Spidey books, that being a "grim and gritty" lead wearing Spidey's costume that gets a free pass, while the book parades sex slavery, prostitution and naked, underage murder victims in full view of Kaine, who's not a cop, during a active crime scene investigation in daytime (L.A. Noire handled that with more class, and that game takes place during the 1940's!), in a SPIDEY book (aka kid-friendly property), while Spidey got lambasted (rightfully so) for comparably sleazy content.

And that's without getting into the atrocious pacing, glaring lack of accessibility, "Writer On Board"/"Worf Effect" style B.S.  and legendarily dropped plots (which could have been picked up in New Warriors, but weren't) that are stables of the equally overrated writer, Chris Yost.

On a unrelated topic: just read the latest Astonishing Ant-Man, with a spotlight on Cassie Lang. LOVED IT. Less pleased am I, however, with the letters page, which implies they're going to bring back a gimmick from last year's volume I genuinely despised and have also been meaning to rant about. (RANT WARNING BTW)

See, because it's Ant-Man, they opted to make the letter's page's text so small you can't read it.Not even joking, they actually made it so you can't read the text in a BOOK that you're expected to pay full price for.

Now, here's the thing: the digital copy of the comic, allows you to zoom in on the page and read the text. Marvel did something similar in one of the stories in the Spider-Verse anthology: it was told entirely in Spanish. But don't worry, they provided a translation....but ONLY in the digital version.

I don't like Marvel making MY comics, that  I pay FULL price for, unreadable. One might attempt to defend this to by calling it an "experiment" as if any supposed artistic merit (I'll get to that) could take priority over me being able to read the product. My response is that if they continue this I drop the book, and I may very well make good on that if they continue doing this with Ant-Man. On the plus side, I have a Digital Comics Unlimited subscription, so I'd get to read the issues at no extra price a few months later anyway.

The funny thing is, I don't even entirely buy Marvel is even doing this for artistic merit (really, how much do they even have at this point?). I have a theory this is one of their many ultimately misguided attempts to fight piracy. C.B. Cebuski once said in an interview that they've "tried everything", including printing their books with special ink that made them impossible to scan. At which point the pirates took hi-res photos of them and went about their business. The only problem is I've never actually seen them bring up the fact that the un-tainted content is in the digital copy (which only makes things worse; How am I supposed to read said content if you don't make it clear to me it's there?). I only learned about the Spanish-to-English translation because it was mentioned in a online review.

I suspect they're might be doing the Spanish trick with Massacre, the Mexican Deadpool in Duggan's run of DP. I'm going to check the digital copy of Spidey/DP #3 to confirm this.

So, yeah, that's just a thing that bothers me.

[HarryTrotter]

TBH,Im having a hard time recalling everything about Scarlet Spider(V2 or v3?),I just found it fun.And that was enough for the moment.
Jackal was hammy and over the top,but there is some charm in that.
Not sure what you mean about Massacre.He does speak in Spanish,and it isnt translated.Hes kinda like Lopez from RvB,come to think of it.

[Silver Shocker]

Oh don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against Jackal being hammy and over the top, I actually enjoyed him in those stories too. I'm just saying the way he's written there doesn't strike me as different than the way he was written in the Clone Saga, nor was there anything really changed about the character that would constitute a "fix".

I do find it an apt comparison that Slott's run is on par with the slipshod writing of the Clone Saga. I hold far more contempt for Inferior Spider-Man and Spider-Verse than I do TCS though, but admittedly I've not read the entirely of TCS (I imagine quite a few haven't, its a monster of a story).

Regarding Scarlet Spider, that's a perfectly fine response. If you did have anything to add about any of the stuff I mentioned, I would have been quite interesting in your response. I could easily go into more detail about how the book handled things compared to other works that I'd give a pass with similar material or tropes. I'll say this though: Carlo Barberi's art on the book rocked (hence why I said "most of the art was weak", not "all"), and if he hadn't done an arc on the book, he might not have done the art in the "Point One" Spidey story "Spyral", which also rocked despite a rather glaring mistake involving Mister Negative.

What I mean about Massacre is I'm curious if the Spanish dialogue is translated within the digital copy of the comic that comes with the print version, since that's what they did with the Spanish Spider-Man story. I do think it's less likely since he's isn't the central character and him speaking in another language is no doubt for comedy reasons (I read on the Marvel fan wiki that it was a joke about how Spanish reprints of Deadpool comics would leave his name "untranslated", though that confused me because the same entry also claimed "Massacre" is the name for Deadpool in Mexico, so I guess they used the word "Massacre" instead of the Spanish word for "Massacre"? ????)

Speaking of Slott and Spider-Man, there's going to be a Spider-Man Civil War tie-in mini and it's going to be written by long-time Slott co-writer Christos Gage. I'm not raging at Civil War II like others here, so I'm open to the prospect of buying a Spidey mini (Spidey's tie-in to the original Civil War was, IMO, one of the best parts of it, though it did vilify Tony further), but so far they've said pretty much zilch about what the plot is so I'm not sure. What I do know, though, is I respect the hell out of Christos Gage due to his polite, classy way of talking to fans even in the face of criticism, and his tendency to spin crap into gold, or at least a decent Silver-Age style Fix-Fic (see: The Hood and Tigra in Avengers Acadamy), even though I find him a somewhat shaky writer on his own. His writing and characterization can get a bit awkward, and characters of opposing sides in AA got handed the Conflict Ball and thus fought because the plot said so. A good example of this was the reoccurring element (in modern comics in general, not strictly Gage's work) of Quicksilver and Magneto being unable to be in a scene together without trying to kill each other.

I've given up on Slott's Spider-Man, but I might be willing to pick up a solely-Gage written one. I quite enjoyed his Spider-Island tie-in one shot, and the fill-in two-parter in Amazing Spider-Man featuring the AA.

[HarryTrotter]

I mentioned it before,but I thought Gage could right an interesting Punisher after reading his Absolution.
Btw,I was talking with a friend about Bendis-es New Avengers(again) and I realized that Carnage was dead for almost 10 year.And that Bendis was really trigger happy.

[Silver Shocker]

Oh yeah. I'm not really sure what kicked off the big Carnage revival that shows no signs of stopping (still haven't finished Superior Carnage, BTW) but it was actually pretty impressive and admirable how the Carnage mini by Zeb Wells and Clayton Crain bent over backwards to explain how Cletus Cassiday/Carnage survived The Sentry flying him into space, ripping him in half, and leaving him there.

Mind you, in any remotely realistic world he'd be dead within seconds, but hey comics.

Can't remember if I mentioned this in this thread awhile back, but the Inverted version of Carnage from Axis was incredibly entertaining. I loved how he got Spidey to make him a statue.

[Edited to add]

Also wanted to reply to the comments about Cullen Bunn. Back in the day, I actually really talked him up because I liked Fear Itself: The Deep, which he wrote. Since then, I wasn't entirely sure what I liked about his work so much. His Venom run was very much Remender-lite, and Bunn ran the "Flash Thompson has daddy issues" trope into the ground.

That being sad, I actually have zero problem with Mercs for Money getting an ongoing with him as the writer, both because I like the concept of the Mercs for Money, and because I kinda liked Bunn's Deadpool "Killology" minis (Deadpool kills the Marvel U, Deadpool Classics Killustrated, and Deadpool Kills Deadpool, even though DKD was pretty much a better version of Spider-Verse, killing and all)

Re: Angela cancellation: Oh you mean the book where the female writer had Odin's father appear just so they could rant about how offensive men are? Yeah, maybe that book should be cancelled. If a male writer did that....

Oh, you know what else I wanted to bring up/rant about? So Marvel's seriously doing a comic about Loki running for president.

I could bring up that as an Asgardian, and thus a non-U.S. citizen (and possibly a convicted felon to boot!) Loki would be ineligible to run for prez, but I imagine the story's going to involve those illusion based powers he's so fond of using (mind you, even if that weren't the case, it'd still make more sense than nobody figuring out Ock wasn't the real Spider-Man, but I digress). I could do that, but I'm not going to.

Instead I'm going to ask a simple question: WHY? EFFING WHY?

I get that Marvel puts Loki-sempei in everything because people liked him in them movies and 14-year old girls on tmblr think he's sexy but was anyone outside said tmblrites asking for this specific comic?

And I'm going to throw out ideas here, but if you're going to do a political satire comic, with a popular Marvel mischief maker running for president, wouldn't it make more sense for it to be, oh I don't know, the character who's whole thing is making commentary on pop culture and breaking the fourth wall and being un-PC and who also just had an absurdly successful movie...you know, Deadpool?

The irony is Sam Wilson's reaction on the cover (facepalming) is a better reaction than any I could give, so I give Marvel props for being at least that self-aware.

What's also morbidly amusing is I recently read a rant online by someone decrying the shoehorning of politics and such into a fictional work, specifically using Loki as an example (pushing vegan food, but still). If you only knew.

And I know I've ranted about a BUNCH of stuff in this thread over the past year or so, but I imagine by far the most controversial opinion I'll ever express is that I'm possibly the only person on this spinning blue orb who doesn't really dig Loki. I knew I'd have to bite the bullet, get in the confession box and bring this up at one point or another but genuinely in my heart of hearts never thought in a million years it'd be a comic about Loki running for president that would get me to do it.

....and yes, I'd still rather vote for him than Trump. Yaknow, if I wasn't Canadian.

[HarryTrotter]

I saw that,and I first I thought Asgard(ia) became democratic,which would make more sense then this.We are already bombed with presidential campaigns everywhere,why would somebody read a comic about it?
Hate to sound like Linkara,but superhero comics are an escapist medium at its core,and while there is always some room for satire(or dropping Bill Clinton in Irak),this seems like overdoing it.And im not that crazy about Loki myself either.
Before somebody asks,Im dont live in US and thus dont really care about your elections.No offense.

[Silver Shocker]

I can think of far, far worse people to sound like than Linkara (cough Yahtzee cough) but don't political satire comics (Barack the Barbarian, ect), yaknow, usually suck? I haven't even seen who the creative team on this thing is but I like to think whoever's writing is slumming it like a boss . So Christos Gage then. Fun fact: Gage wrote the Batman v Superman comics that come inside Frito Lay family packs and (I assume) General Mills cereal. That is real, you can look that up.

Also, in case you didn't see it, I updated my post earlier with a response about Angela getting cancelled.

[HarryTrotter]

I haven't been reading Angela,but I know that pretty much every panel became a meme.

And haven't really read satire comics,since again I dont care that much.Well stuff that Mark Millar and Warren Ellis do is a bit too blunt to be satire,so dont think that counts.
Anyway,I generally like Gage.He can write lighter stuff like Avengers Academy and pretty dark stuff like Absolution.And somewhat in-between stuff like Deadshot.He can do pretty much everything it seems.
I think I mentioned Al Ewing before so forgive me if I repeat myself.(To quote Rob Liefeld "who is Al Ewing?"  Okay,I know who he is,but it doesn't mean much.)He not good,hes not bad,hes perfectly mediocre.I have no reason to compliment him,but I cant bash him either.He hammers out stuff each month and thats pretty much all there is.

[Silver Shocker]

A book cannot live on memes alone. When's the last you heard someone talk about the Grumpy Cat, My Little Pony, or Littlest Pet Shop comic. Oh that's right, when Linkara made a cameo.

Hercules giving a thumbs up this comic is not.

Yeah, I hate to be that guy, but that's Gamer Gate business right there. NO MAN would get away with that with a "nagging feminist" editorial cartoon.
And also, um....yeah, not to be a jack, but I barely know who Bor is and I KNOW it's not like he's never appeared before. Making him an editorial cartoon kinda does a huge disrespect to the lore. And this is the person writing a book ABOUT the Asgardians? Yeah, byebye.

Yeah, you did mention Ewing, in yet another post I've been meaning to reply to. You mentioned how that clickbait merchant over at Bleeding Crap called him the modern "Alan Moore". Ignoring that nobody gets to be the modern Alan Moore including Alan Moore, I've read some of his books including New Avengers. He's ok but he's not even Fabian Necieza. But considering that Johnson also said Waid's Daredevil was somehow "the next Watchmen" (whatever that means),yeah, no reason to take any stake in his "unsolicted opinions on comics".

[HarryTrotter]

Ah,Rich...you know,when Rob Liefeld is the realistic one in the argument,you are obviously doing something wrong.  But twitter arguments aside for the moment...
I just found that Ewing and (his New Avengers) lack any sort of voice.There is really nothing to be called unique,hes trying to run plots from 3-4 previous series.(Oh yeah,naming yourself Wiccan is offensive to Wiccans.)And since I haven't read Kierons Young Avengers Im a bit lost with some plots.
Since I already commented on everyone-Cullen Bunn is very 50/50 to me.Something good,something bad.I hear hes better with his own comics then mainstream stuff.
Repeating myself again,sorry.

[Silver Shocker]

So I fully admit I have a huge bias with Ewing's new Avengers because I'm a fan of Wiccan, Hulkling, and Songbird. The Young Avengers and Thunderbolts in general. However I haven't had an issue with their characterization so far (we'll see about that business in this week's issue). I've also liked Victor Alvarez/Power Man in the stuff I've read, and of course Hawkeye.

The business with Wiccan is a direct lift from Kieron Gillen's Young Avengers. I honestly forgot all about it and had to look it up to get up to speed. Also I should mention, the time travelling business with the future Avengers is straight from the Ewing storyline Avengers: Ultron Forever, which I made a point to read before the issue of NA where they came up. It was pretty good, but I felt it ran it's course by the end. So yeah, so far he's strictly "just ok." I've been meaning to read his Mighty Avengers run since there is a little carrying over from it here, and people on this forum have it's fantastic old-school Avengers, and yes, (sigh) Rich talked it up. Not looking forward to the Land art though, or the Inferior Spider-Man.

The funny thing is, Wiccan is Billiy's second acronym. His first was "Asgardian". At the end of Heinberg's first YA arc, Kate Bishop suggested he change his name because people will make jokes "once they find out about him and Teddy" (Wiccan and Hulkling are of course, an openly gay couple. And yes, I was on forums back then, and people did make jokes.)

On the topic of NA, Spade, since we've both made our opinion's on Geraldo Sandoval's art (you said you didn't like, I did), I was wondering: What did you think of Marcus To in this week's issue? Personally I quite liked it (he had a really nice run on Red Robin over at DC), I would be quite please if he stuck around.