The Marvel Thread

[detourne_me]

And 4 spider characters. Doesn't that seem ridiculous to anyone else?

I kinda like the idea of keeping Steve Rogers as an older guy.

[JeyNyce]

They went with Coulson instead of Wolverine or Deadpool?That is weird.

You're not serious, are you?  You know why they went with Coulson and not with the mutants  I'm not sure if I can say that word.

I kinda like Cap as an old guy too, but keep him active.  Either let him run SHIELD with Coulson or let him lead the Avengers, working from HQ, or let him be like Nick Fury was back in the day and he'll have his own adventures.

4 Spiders in one universe.  Notice that nothing was said about Spidey 2099.  They can all get together and call themselves The Spider Friends

[bat1987]

They went with Coulson instead of Wolverine or Deadpool?That is weird.

You're not serious, are you?  You know why they went with Coulson and not with the mutants  I'm not sure if I can say that word.

Plus,

Spoiler

they're both dead, for the time being anyway

.

Some quick rundown on the known facts about post SW Marvel U, including interesting Wolverine and Hulk info
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/marvels-all-new-all-different-universe-what-we-know-so-far

Apparently,

Spoiler

there's gonna be a new Wolverine and a new Hulk, not sure if I'm a fan of this many identity switcheroos but if the story behind is good, I'm fine with them.

[SickAlice]

@Spade: Right? Or a sword wound as well. I love his character fiercely don't get me wrong but it seems like the writers at Marvel just slacked off with him. I'm assuming he'll get much needed TLC with a film coming out and all however. Also what was it you liked about Little Marvel? Wondering as I'm not interested but who knows, maybe I'm missing a good comic.

As for Wolverine what's up there is shown in the Wolverines series (last ish). I suggest that whole run either way, great series by my accounts.

Read my other SW books, brief summary:
SW#3: I love Hickman's writing so I loved this again. This issue pretty much sets the stage and gets all of the players in place. Some big answers dropped here (a huge one if you look close enough and check ahead on the solicits actually) and some left hanging.
Master Of Kung-Fu#2: As good as the previous issue, SW Shang-Chi is awesome. Can't prop this series enough.
X-Tinction Agenda: Bleh. Not bad but not great either. More I'd say it's not compelling. They did a good job at capturing the nineties comic style but most of the characters aren't interesting or are just completely unknown. It seems to assume the reader will just have a vested interest in the characters before reading the book which of course there's no way they could. I might not even follow this one out.
Years Of Futures Past: The better of the X books if you ask me. This wasn't mind blowing either but the story structure and characterization held up. The new characters are a little strange but the story makes up for it in heart.
Renew Your Vows: Well I called this one. If Peter and MJ stayed married the world would go to pot, how nice of Marvel to not make us suffer all these years, lol. Not really to my credit though. Much of that came from sitting in a round table of creators and fans about both the topic of whether the marriage should have been retconned, whether OMD/OMIT where good or not, and whether Slott was past his due and had too much creative control. Naturally most currently employed by Marvel swear by all of the above and that anyone (reader or creator) against is just dumb and has no understanding of how a comic book should be made. This matters here because the story is being shoved aside in favor of pushing that agenda and thus makes for a bad read. Axing this one to make space for any of the other numerous titles as well. Again I'm a little miffed that Slott got all the Spider books and they didn't dedicate one to any of the great stories of the past. There were a lot of Spider orientated stories they could have used for SW that I feel they really passed up on here (the 1st issue, Maximum Carnage and The Other spring to mind immediately). Sorry if my attitude rubs anyone the wrong way but I'm just not in the Slott camp. I love his prior works and swear by Superior but I think he's past his due date. I also think (again from speaking to the man) that he's sadly the kind of artist that rather than take criticism on the chin and consider applying it to his craft gets too offended and rebels against intentionally putting in his books what the fans don't want. That said I wouldn't hold your breath that the status quo of this book will carry over (616 Peter is in another book anyways, this is NOT your Spider-man despite what the advert says) and we will return to Slotts Black Cat story once all is aid and done. Slott is another imo that maybe would be better served moving over to the animation division. Him and Wacker had a good working relationship as well so that would be a bonus there.
Armor Wars: Not bad but it's all over the place. This is a must for Iron Man enthusiasts though, lots of little Easter eggs here. There's also a Iron man Spider-man and Rhodey takes up a unique position in this book. Iron Man 2020 also makes his debut here for anyone into that character (and adds a second skin to the nif I'm making).
Battleworld#2: This was a preview for other books, being Howard The Duck and Planet Hulk. Not a lot happening here though both stories were entertaining enough and had heart.
Future Imperfect: My next favorite issue aside from MOKF. I'm bias here though because I'm a Ruby Summers fan and this book had her all over it. It's a good complex tale though. Looking ahead Maestro is going to be a very important character both in SW and after it so this is probably going to be an essential read.

[HarryTrotter]

JK about Wolverine.Chillax people.Coulson FTW!
@Alice Little Marvels was just fun.Iceman selling Ice-cream,Cyclops and his eye puns,zany stuff.And baby Cable is the most adorable thing ever.
Renew your Vows:
Seeing the opening scenes I almost expected them to live in a trailer...That sitcom family feel.The story fans wanted to see!
Or: You asked for it,now take it,suckers!
Worth mentioning is that the artwork of SW is great.Esad Ribic does an awesome job.

[JeyNyce]

As big as a Spidey fan I am, I have mix feeling about Renew your Vows.  It felt like a bait and switch.  I thought it would be the years before May "Mayday" Parker got her Spidey powers, but it's not, whole different story.  I'm also guessing the lesson he learned from Ben, doesn't whole much weight when you have a family to take care of

[SickAlice]

Maybe I'll leaf through AvX. A fun book is a good thing every now and then. I'm mostly being frugal and trying not to pile on the titles in service to my bank account. It's like SW 2 or Onslaught all over again, lol. I suppose if I were them I'd make a mad grab at the cash as well. Still a little unhappy to not have my 1602 Angela or Shiklah books yet.

[HarryTrotter]

Second poster is even weirder.

[bat1987]

Huh, so X-23 is the new Wolverine, kinda makes sense, her being the clone and what not. Old man Logan will be sticking around as expected. The Thing is gonna join Guardians? Not a fan of DD's new look. They were going for Netflix meets shadowlands I guess.

Also didn't get to comment on Spidey's new look from the first poster. I can dig it. Small tweaks here and there but it's still true to the form.

[HarryTrotter]

Im the only one noticing
Citizen-V?

[JeyNyce]

Im the only one noticing
Citizen-V?

I see him and I also notice that they change everybody in that poster except for Iron Man.  I wonder what Marvel has plan for him.

[HarryTrotter]

^Judging by Superior Iron Man,nothing good.

[JeyNyce]

Does anybody knows who's the guy in the green hood?  At first I thought Killer Croc, then Electro, LOL!

[SickAlice]

Playing it reserved as always regarding this. I read a few articles when the news hit and most are apparently written by time traveler from the future who read the next ten years of Marvel and DC comics and absolutely hated it. I only hated their articles, lol. Not worth buying into hype and more never worth buying into made up paranoia. Had I ever gone that route in life I would probably find myself now trying to figure out how to get my investment in the bomb shelter and solar panels I would have purchased during the end of the world scenario during 1999. Seriously hate coming off dissonant all the time about it but it would be nice if we had more reporters who were upbeat and stuck to factual basis, as well actually had a degree in journalism *cough* rather than the click bait writers I've seen most of it devolve into. Integrity wouldn't actually hurt the world, just saying. As for what is at hand I'm sure it will read like everything else. Despite how often (weekly?) they push the All New button at Marvel the overall experience has felt the same to me since Disassembled at least short an original title here and there, something which I like and think is positive FYI. I like change and variety but I also don't like being uprooted completely. Aside from SWS Marvels been fairly consistent at least at providing the same " sort of " thing on the menu.

Also I've wanted Laura to take the mantle forever, so if that's going to stick I'm excited and will be there acting quite immature and rubbing it in the faces of my friends who say X-23 sucks and Sabretooth is the only one who deserves to be Wolverine. Oh yes, believe it.

[JeyNyce]

Does anybody knows who's the guy in the green hood?  At first I thought Killer Croc, then Electro, LOL!

Found it, Inhuman Karnak rocking a street-level look

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/new-marvel-teaser-features-new-wolverine-different-daredevil-thing

[bat1987]

Im the only one noticing
Citizen-V?

I see him and I also notice that they change everybody in that poster except for Iron Man.  I wonder what Marvel has plan for him.

According to Marvel's EIC he's supposed to be the flagship character for the entire relaunch, whatever that means.

[JeyNyce]

It doesn't bother me, but I think Marvel is over doing it with their female heroes.  I can understand promoting the female heroes they have now, but now they're creating female counterpart to their male heroes.  Anybody else notice this as well or am I just making a big deal out of nothing?

[SickAlice]

I don't think so. Women of Marvel have been their stock and trade and something notable about the company for decades. The X-Women really stand out there. I more concern though not greatly that they aren't doing it right, which applies universally rather than to them specifically. More often than not for example I see a social network status of a person attempting to come off as the champion of diversity, often self congratulatory despite not having made a real time impact sadly, instead completely blow it do to being woefully ignorant of another lifestyle. The first step in acceptance is understanding that you can't understand what it is to be the other person, the second that what anyone needs is someone to listen rather than tell them nor speak on their behalf, let them speak when they need to in other words. Because as someone who isn't them while the intent is well enough your apt to actually make things worse and come off half baked. Noting that's even more convoluted by the fact that in this age the going rate is between legitimately caring and going through the motions and trying to portray oneself as being " with the times ". When it comes to companies that make product I tend to not take to heart either in offense nor applause what they motion towards since it's undeniable that they are a company and therefore obligated to target demographics, in this case the lesser female buyers of their products as well the majority of shoppers whom happen to also be mothers. All the goofy little stuff I learned when I used to be in sales and really not depressing as it serves to simplify and make matters easier to swallow.

[HarryTrotter]

I think Marvel is overdoing a lott of things lately...Mostly replacing existing heroes with younger and hipper people.But thats a long story...
I am positivly suprised by a lott of comics lately.So yeah,the future is looking a bit brighter.
Old Man Logan #1 was actually a lott better then I expected.

[detourne_me]

A part of me wonders if they are trying to set up legacy generations, like what DC had in the past.
Marvel had been more about costume swapping before, but everyone was generally the same age. I wonder if they want to reflect their history now by setting up different 'tiers', Steve Rogers, Old Man Logan, and I assume Fury Sr. Would be like the old guard. Peter Parker, Sam Wilson, Iron Man, etc. are the veterans and mentors.

[JeyNyce]

So.....

Old Man Logan, Steve Rogers, Nick Fury Sr - Justice Society

Parker, Sam, Tony, and any of the classic Marvel heroes - JLA

Spider-Gwen, X-23, Miles, Ms. Marvel - Teen Titans

It makes sense if you look at it like that.

[SickAlice]

@detourne_me: I think mostly re-branding. I know I come off cynical when I go the business route, and partly that's my training (one of my majors is journalism as well hence my dissonance to blogs and web sites) however they are a business and they're fiscal responsibilities proceed everything else. Outside what's visually apparent, whereas the big twos franchises frequently are shaken up and given a new look that no one seemed to be asking for are the talents frequent comments about editorial control and how " well we have a businesses to run after all " or some such, more openly of course after they leave their employer and if there was bad blood/creative differences. Re-branding of course means selling " new " despite it being the old product. Like New Coke or having a different flavor variation of the same soda. Stan Lee said once, I think in an old Wizard interview in regards to Ben Reilly " The thing that sells better than Spider-man is two of them ". Both Marvel and DC have become pretty rabid about doing this lately, myself registering the complaint often that I'd like for one concept to stay in place long enough to enjoy it, and easily as the current economic climate itself is in a state of chaos and constant flux.

@JeyNyce: I really doubt the industry leader is trying to follow number two in the numbers. It makes no sense when you do the math. That's like concluding that Wal-Mart is modelling themselves after K-Mart to try and improve themselves. A person in first place wouldn't follow the one in second. Mind you like I've said I don't buy into the Marvel ripped off DC or DC ripped off Marvel ideology. I just think it's been going for decades past it's use personally and is a long dead horse that really needs a tribunal.

[HarryTrotter]

I dont know the sales number,but I dont belive Marvel is so much ahead of DC.
About the whole generation setup...I dont think they can pull it of.The whole universe runs on present time.There was a great blog I once read,about why a series like Starman would be impossible for Marvel.
BTW,not that I care,but whats gonna happen with Ultimate universe after all of this?

[SickAlice]

They're still ahead and I'm referring to the company as a whole but probably eschewing the point by adding to it myself with that. Among too many other things the clefting accusation is a part of the nerd culture we would be so much better off without and frankly most of us and I believe all of you are better than. Not even close to being in league with the real unsavory stuff in our cultures...and I mean man *shakes head * so sorry if it read as such a thing, but likewise it just serves no purpose to whatever company nor artist one is attempting to either stand for, defend nor evaluate in any sense. Marvel is not trying to be DC. DC is not trying to be Marvel. Never have been they are just two peas in a pod following the same market leads and if anything their very livelihoods are dependent on the contrast they create between one another in order to perpetuate a competitive and flowing market. Either way what does this serve in talking about what Marvel is doing in their next phase in the Marvel thread other than as the base incendiary powder keg it always has in comic culture? Just saying that as it is and at least imo I think or at least wish for nerd culture to see a major movement of change for the better as we are sadly and especially from the outside view in pretty sorry shape overall, though a full conversation for another place clearly. However and the bush we keep beating around I believe in both the upcoming reshuffling of the Marvel and DC lines is relevant and this: Both comic companies are clearly acknowledging the decay of the moral center of the fanbase, not as a whole of course but large enough in part and regrettably in negatory action and revising the very nature of their material to a more saturated, political correct and friendly state akin to what was in place when the CCA had the lease firmly hand. Not as homogenized of course but the tonal shift in both houses is clearly there and also coincides with events in our wonderful culture doesn't it? Even if not a literal moral action on their part, though I have to believe as human beings and with some of their own best and brightest becoming victims themselves, that enough inside the industry must well be it's at least observable that their doing it to save the crafts reputation as a whole and perhaps try to avoid a hard endline that really not them nor any of us wants to see happen. Myself I think I'm too old that any of this has a drastic effect on me, like many my age I'm living in comics and games of the past anyways and also have distanced myself from the larger circles (I refer to as The City BTW, and this place as the nice Coffe Haus if that analogy makes sense?) due to having been on the same receiving end of the worst of our number and up front about being imbued with fear. Yet I still see the state of it and care, more than most maybe would understand, for what happens to the all of the many good ones in nerd culture present and future and to the unique and magical forms of arts that have held our hearts and captivated all our imaginations since our childhoods. Hopefully and respectfully this is concise enough but to harsh, it's obviously a if not the most sensitive subject in our culture or at least I think, and a very difficult one to broach without tip-toeing around eggshells so to speak. Clearly something that's been on my mind a lot but it's so hard to ignore and not care about though most time when I try to motion it I simply operate out of tender feelings and just end up venting and lashing, coming off us an outright mad hatter. But that's my piece, my two copper disks, what have you in case and the best explanation to where I stand and why I do.

@Spade: Ultimate U incorporates by the look of it. Most of the ahead solicits include Ultimate characters. That Universe was created by the folks who became the head architects of Marvel so it's easy to see them keeping their own creations in the game, likewise why they folded the two together in the first place (so Bendis can write Miles in 616 and so on). If you mean the physical place it's gone. As the reps stated " there is only Battleworld going forward ". So not technically gone but more neighboring. Both universes are now the new Manhattan. The first issue of Ultimate End I thought set the stage nicely imo.

[HarryTrotter]

I did check the numbers for last month.Star Wars by Marvel is first,then Convergence.Marvels original works arent near the first two.
Im guessing that Ultimate Nick Fury stays.Im cool with that.But if Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver start sleeping together...
Confession time: I dont like Ultimate universe.I almost hate it.

[SickAlice]

Like I said big picture and again a redundant point so my bad for bringing up the math. If we want to have a discussion about whether Marvel is copying DC that should be another topic or at least held in the DC thread. Likewise I won't be including myself because I think it's a dead horse and silly whatever it swings. Of course same goes for the state of affairs I guess but it is at least relevant to the upheaval of both companies lines so maybe it has a place when discussing the aesthetic changes taking place?

I'm not a fan on the basis that I could only afford one universe and opted out, so no real point of reference from me. I can't help but thinking this is more creators tailoring the books to suit themselves rather than the readers, protecting their own pet projects in this case, as well I never saw anyone demanding 616 and Ultimate be mashed together. In fact I'm pretty sure I saw the reader demand continuity be preserved? I guess maybe the big wigs at the House Of M see this as an ends to a means just as DC did so whatever, I'm not the one running their companies. I'm just happy printed comic books are still thing at any rate and I can read them every month. I would like to see more of the old Bullpen rules in play at Marvel again but hey, there's my wishes and there's what's going to happen so time to get eaten by the bar, ispo facto.

[HarryTrotter]

That was just trivia.I dont really care who sells more since they arent making me any money either way.
I blame Joe Quesada,for everything...
Bendis...was good.But hes kinda slipping for some time now.I mean John Byrne slipping.

[SickAlice]

I agree actually Spade. The only thing I do is that they both stay afloat and keep my beloved comics alive. So in my case I actually want the rivalry between them and again for the Inpendandants to be stronger. I would like to see Image have the kind of foothold they did in the 80's again especially the Top Cow end of it (I'm friends with Matt so I'm bias for my friend and want him and his family to have the best but there it is). So I guess I care enough that they break bread like I would for any person just not what fills their greed.

I'm not sure. It seems easy to blame Q and worse he takes it on himself. Like a President it's part of his job to put the weight on himself. Problems yet Marvel and as well the genre is stronger than it's ever been (I mean the movies we have now, gosh!) so he's done something right at least. The thing is and this is natural to most entrenched entertainers the architects really don't relate to us. They aren't everymen and most fall in the 1% or close to it. Most live in a bubble and only associate with people in their own profession rather than finding themselves in the back of some LCS playing Magic against the locals. That and the new rift between the content creators and fans which sorry to say again falls more on our end (some of our own attacked comic writers in their homes, my head is still grasping what's happening to us?). So I can excuse a bit because the nature of everything just seems set. The brat pack mentality though no, again the comics catering to the company rather than the fan and the fan being told " This is what you like now, deal with it " (Spider-man/MJ for example). Seems sometimes like customer service is a dead art, at least I'll say that's the case in America. Bendis I give some support to. I think he just stretched himself too thin though someone had to step into the position. Really they're all greats but maybe it's just time for a new regime in order to inject something fresh into the business. After all that seems to be the goal they're reaching for doesn't it? Then again convincing an old man he is obsolete is easier said then done, most will fight for their thrones to the death. Byrne, ha ha. Don't go there man. That's borderline obscenity to bring that one up dontcha' know (imagining JB with a giant hot air balloon head floating over the Land Of Oz). 

[HarryTrotter]

Bendis is good on street level heroes,but give him a team or superpower and he falls apart.
Im not commenting his statements or anything,but Byrne was adamant in his belives that only he knows how ANY character works.And really messed up those he didnt like.Which is sadly something Im seeing a lott lately.

[SickAlice]

Seeing it a lot too. More of a superstar trend? Though that's a social trend isn't it especially in the digital age where Worthington's Law (pay grade equals personal value) is being replaced by Approval Rating (Likes, appraisal comments) and static action by stance. Not to say egalitarianism is the standard mind you, missing the bullseye has and will always be our natural state and being flawed is okay, beautiful even in it's way. But there's a tonal shift and I have to direct it to the Bullpen standard as well. Is it possible that becoming corporate has changed the way they relate? I mean when your union even your legally obligated to all sorts of measurement some boarding gag orders. You can't well come about and say " Yeah, that story was totally stupid. Sorry folks my bad, I was a having a crisis of faith and hitting the sauce a little too much that month ". Maybe in the Bullpen ear when Marvel owned themselves could they be so blatant and honest but now they're all under lock and key, most of them now working in the film (Bendis largely here) and animation sides of their respective industries, breaking big dollars and hanging with the stars (Great And Powerful Oz Effect). Somethings changed. I talk to many of these people as do most given this nice internet we have and sadly I feel most of the time I'm being lied to and like I'm speaking to a vacuum salesperson at my doorstep. Honesty does sell people, just ask the Girl Scouts. Again they are just human so passable though notable when trying to understand what it is they're selling us these days. Byrne again...easy target. Mean of me but when he just up and decided to try and rewrite Spider-man's history I was done with him. Then again we just saw an inwrite later so bar eat you I guess. They swear by all that but again " company men ", that's the way the monkey suit is zipped. Probably why I chat more with the Image people. They own themselves and don't have to beat around the bush when they speak. No ones going to fire them for what they say or do with their characters or tell them how this and that needs to be done.

Completely on Bendis as well. Age Of Ultron was one of the better things he did in awhile and the reason was obvious: It was What If Bendis Created The Marvel Universe? And naturally his MU was a grim and gritty city scape where all the street levelers were the center of attention. There's my evidence about him being spread too thin. Marvel for whatever reason takes a name when they get big and spreads them about like jam. Suddenly the writer and artist are on books that aren't necessarily a match for their style and suddenly they're tasked to do tons of books and event plotting. And anything else. I've never been told but by that I can assume they work on salary you know? Anyways so here we have an Avengers title everyone loathes, rightfully so because the team on the book isn't a match for it. But hey, NA is pretty good. Of course it is, that book is street characters that tailor to Bendis's style. I can do models and skopes for you fine because I'm versed in those things, toss me a map project and I'll hand you something taped together that looks like garbage. Again Bullpen difference here. The Bullpen assigned talent to what it was best at, not unlike baseball and it worked seamlessly for them. Fortunately Bendis "seems" to stepping back a little and shifting more into other divisions. He is really good as an adviser in their cinematic department, I mean the results speak for themselves there. Hence why I mean no insult but just think more of the old guard should be moved to other company ends and new blood brought in on the comics. That's just smart infrastructure when you think about it. Personally I just want him to get back to Scarlet because I'm selfish like that (easily one of his best though) but I'm not holding my breath. He also needs to stop dropping f-bombs in every interview. He'd tell me to f-off for saying that of course but really the mans a representative of a family entertainment company and that's all there is to it. No need to be a robotic schmuck all the time, Stan Lee pulled it off humble of course, but no need to act come out like a soused frat boy either. Though again both Marvel and DC seems to be restructuring on every level to match the current rapidly changed social climate (heck, even Sony has) so most of this probably doesn't matter and guys like Joe and Brian are probably going to be obsolete relics of yesterday soon as it is. The more things change.