The Marvel Thread

[BlueBard]

If by "tamed" you mean --

Spoiler

Peter's memories and personality begin to reassert dominance and it's basically Peter again with Doc Ock's memories

It would be one of the ways in which I expected Marvel to eventually reverse themselves, but doesn't change a whole lot.

And I'm not buying "Superior" to find out.

[Podmark]

I quite enjoyed Superior Spider-Man #1, but I'm a fan of Slott's run so that's not really surprising. I really liked Stegman's art and the new Sinister Six was fun. I both liked and disliked that it was a done in one. Liked because short arcs are always nice, and disliked because I wanted more of this Sinister Six.

As for the twist:

Spoiler

Peter appears in a ghostly form to stop Otto from killing Boomerang. The issue doesn't really give details about what Peter is, but likely guesses would be a) he's a ghost or b) he's still present in his brain. Either way Peter is "still in this fight!" - reading that totally had me giddy.

Wasn't that surprised by this development, Slott or Wacker alluded to a twist in the first issue a week or two ago and I figured it'd be something like this.

[bat1987]

As for the twist:

Spoiler

Peter appears in a ghostly form to stop Otto from killing Boomerang. The issue doesn't really give details about what Peter is, but likely guesses would be a) he's a ghost or b) he's still present in his brain. Either way Peter is "still in this fight!" - reading that totally had me giddy.

Wasn't that surprised by this development, Slott or Wacker alluded to a twist in the first issue a week or two ago and I figured it'd be something like this.

Spoiler

I think what you have under b) is correct. Wacker or Slott (not sure who) said that Peter taking full controll of his body might seem like a logical continuation of the development at the end of SS#1, but that might not happen. That being said, I'd like to see what BB posted at the end of this arc, Peter being in charge of his body while still retaining Otto's memories. That way even if they sorta return to old status quo Peter is still changed from the experience, and is still "superior" in a way.

I liked the first issue, lots of fun. Liked the interaction between new Spidey and sinister six. This current status quo has a lot of potential for fun stories, rlly wanna see where they go with this.

[BlueBard]

As for the twist:

Spoiler

Peter appears in a ghostly form to stop Otto from killing Boomerang. The issue doesn't really give details about what Peter is, but likely guesses would be a) he's a ghost or b) he's still present in his brain. Either way Peter is "still in this fight!" - reading that totally had me giddy.

Wasn't that surprised by this development, Slott or Wacker alluded to a twist in the first issue a week or two ago and I figured it'd be something like this.

Spoiler

I think what you have under b) is correct. Wacker or Slott (not sure who) said that Peter taking full controll of his body might seem like a logical continuation of the development at the end of SS#1, but that might not happen. That being said, I'd like to see what BB posted at the end of this arc, Peter being in charge of his body while still retaining Otto's memories. That way even if they sorta return to old status quo Peter is still changed from the experience, and is still "superior" in a way.

I liked the first issue, lots of fun. Liked the interaction between new Spidey and sinister six. This current status quo has a lot of potential for fun stories, rlly wanna see where they go with this.

What would make the most sense from a psychological perspective, under the circumstances...

Spoiler

1. A peculiar manifestation of Multiple Personality Disorder, where either of the two personalities might surface and take control under the right stimulus even if one of those personalities happens to be the dominant one.  Even in real cases of MPD I've read about, it's possible that the different personalities would be aware of each other and might be able to communicate with each other.  Sounds like that's kind of what's happening already as of SSM #1.

2. A merge/fusion of the two personalities.  Which coincidentally is a therapy for MPD, that seeks to integrate the separate personalities into one dominant personality.

Which leaves the distinct possibility that even if Peter "returns"...

Spoiler

Otto might still manifest as a separate personality later down the road.  It might even be revealed that Otto himself suffered from a form of MPD and Peter might have more than one other personality to worry about rattling around in that brain.  For that matter, given everything Peter's been through I wouldn't be surprised if his personality fractured, too.

[XStream]

As surprised as I was to see how Amazing ended (although we knew they were pulling the trigger, so to speak) I think I know where this is going.... and I like it. I read this article on Newsarama this morning and thought I would share.

But do not read unless you are curious how Superior Spiderman might fix the status quo for everyone's favorite wall-crawler.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/op-ed-superior-spider-man-theory.html

Spoiler

I like his theory and it makes perfect sense for the story. I only hope Marvel doesn't decide that the fan community knowing the ending (maybe...) means they will need to draw it out so we might forget where they were going (Think clone saga or nose-less Wolvie [woops I meant adamantium-less... but same thing]. As a tool for rebooting (I know we hate that word but it could be a clean reboot) it will make a great story, but if it becomes drawn out for a couple of years and we lose the creative team who dreamed it up.... the story may become lost. Anyway, Doc Spider- Ock Man could be great for the book!

[Tomato]

So... I read some X-men comics yesterday.

I know, that shouldn't be a huge surprise, as up until a few years ago, I was a fan of anything and everything X-men related. I still am really, but over the last few years... I haven't exactly been thrilled with the comics. Many of my favorite characters have either been killed (Nightcrawler) or stripped of everything I enjoyed about them to begin with (Cyclops, Colossus), and the increasing levels they were going to isolate themselves from humanity was more akin to what I had associated with the Brotherhood than with the X-men. I kinda sped through the second coming/hope arc, and that's about the last X-men book I bothered to read. And yeah, I'd heard good things about WatX, but between my growing disgust with Marvel Comics in general and the fact that the book almost instantly got dragged into an EVENT, I didn't ever bother with it.

But between the talk of Beast getting an updated look (which I personally love, btw) and my curiosity of how they justified time-travelling X-men, I picked up copies of All New X-men. This book... it really resonates with me. The reactions these X-men are having to the modern X-men world... that's how I've felt as a fan of the series. I've loved every panel of it, and I can't wait for more.

[Podmark]

I think I read most or all of the AvX tie-ins now and Wolverine and the X-Men had some of if not the best tie-ins. Most books either largely dropped their regular plots (like Secret Avengers) or were fairly dull, but WatX was pretty good at still staying relevant.

I've been impressed by Bendis on the X-books. I often found his characters seemed off in Avengers, but I don't have that problem with his X-books so far.

[Tomato]

Something just occurred to me as I'm sitting in my car waiting for the next class, and I was curious what you guys thought about it. Now that past Beast has been transported from the 1960s, what do you think will happen when...

Spoiler

He discovers that his modern self came out as gay? It's one of those interesting bits from the Morrison run that I'm somewhat grateful other writers just glossed over (we get beaten over the head with some characters being gay in the hands of lesser writer) but it's one of those character bits I think kinda added to the type of person Beast is.

That said, to have a 1960s era high school student find out he came out as gay when he clearly isn't would be an interesting commentary on just how much society has changed over the course of 5-6 decades.

[Podmark]

Something just occurred to me as I'm sitting in my car waiting for the next class, and I was curious what you guys thought about it. Now that past Beast has been transported from the 1960s, what do you think will happen when...

Spoiler

He discovers that his modern self came out as gay? It's one of those interesting bits from the Morrison run that I'm somewhat grateful other writers just glossed over (we get beaten over the head with some characters being gay in the hands of lesser writer) but it's one of those character bits I think kinda added to the type of person Beast is.

That said, to have a 1960s era high school student find out he came out as gay when he clearly isn't would be an interesting commentary on just how much society has changed over the course of 5-6 decades.

If memory serves...

Spoiler

Beast wasn't actually gay. He came out as some kind of ploy that I don't remember the details to.
Either way Beast has been in a heterosexual relationship with Abigail Brand of SWORD for several years now.

[Previsionary]

Yeah, Beast was interested in women after that Morrison reveal/joke. That's the main reason that tidbit is often ignored from that run. And yeah, he has been with Abigail for a couple of years now, falling for her during Whedon's Astonishing run. I didn't know it was still going on, but they were established as in a relationship a while ago, just before he left Utopia to join SWORD.

[Tomato]

I actually knew that, what I meant was how would beast, knowing he's straight, react to older Beast's decision to come out as gay despite knowing he really isn't. The comment about being bashed over the head with gay characters was more a general commentary on the "is ___ gay or not" game comic publishers keep playing.

Sorry if that was garbled, I was posting via my phone.

[Silver Shocker]

So lemme tell y'all about a comic I read today called Superior Spider-Man #2. Spoilers ahoy.

Spoiler

So nearly the entire issue is about SpOCK trying to score with Mary Jane while ghost Peter is along for the ride without being able to do anything about it except act indignant the whole way through. After several dates where Ock is not getting what he wants, he logs into Pete's memories of him and MJ (and we're treated to some steamy MJ/Pete images with Ock in Pete's place; tastefully done, as course ) and Ock goes home and...uh... does something else that would never make it into a Spidey cartoon.  The next day he goes to work and hits on one of Pete's coworkers, which annoys Pete. There's a tease for an upcoming Vulture appearance, Ock swings past a mugging, which Peter did not approve of for obvious reasons, and Ock saves MJ from falling to her death. He ends up telling her they should stop going out because him being Spider-Man gets in the way too much (you know, that old chestnut) and he needs to get over her. She takes it very well and Pete is impressed by Ock for breaking it off.

Oh boy, where to begin with this issue? Well, it was entertaining and fun on a very simple level. It wasn't boring, it was paced very well, there's a good amount of subplot, scenes that don't linger too long, a nice continuity nod to Gwen Stacy's death, and some pretty good art (though there was parts of it I found a bit rough or grungy). However, the bigger issue is that this issue is nearly 22 straight pages of squick, much of it played for laughs. Ock going on date after date with MJ and not getting any hot coffee is done kinda like a Road Runner gag, and Pete comes off as very lame, powerless and impotent (pun not intended). Which is a 180 from the reveal last issue IMO where Pete came off super cool. Whereas there he stopped Ock from killing a lame super villain, here he seems unable to influence what Ock does in any way. I'm left thinking, this story could have been a perfect Robot Chicken skit (you wouldn't even have to change much to make it one), but as an actual story in a Spider-Man comic, it seems in bad taste. If they had to address it, it probably would have been better if they just touched on it briefly and moved on. And ultimately the story makes Ock feel like a creep, not a hero.

[detourne_me]

i get ya, man

Spoiler

at least Carlie might've clued in....maybe this series will be shorter than we thought?

[Silver Shocker]

Actually, supposedly Slott said in an interview that the book might have a shorter run due to the negative backlash. I haven't read the interview myself, supposedly it was on Newsarama, so if I have time I might check that later to see if that's true.  [EDITED to add: Turns out it was an interview with editor Steve Wacker and the people interviewing him asked if the book's run might be shorter due to the reception. So yeah, Marvel didn't say that. ]

Since I didn't mention the previous issues, I should just add my thoughts quick. I really enjoyed 700 and the entirely of Dying Wish arc. It was exciting, well paced, had great art, and I was always looking forward to seeing what happened next. And even though the ending is a bit sad, the fact that big comic storylines are telegraphed so far in advance these days and my enjoyment of the actual issues alleviated that concern for me considerably.

Superior #1 I really enjoyed, because it was Spidey vs a group of supervillains and that was fun. I really enjoyed the new Sinister Six, including the Living Brain, who I find lame, but nostalgic enough to enjoy seeing in the book again. Future issues are going to have a lot of other returning villains (including Cardiac!) so I'm looking forward to those.

[Previsionary]

Well, it got a negative backlash because of the way that story played out, but usually, Marvel sticks to their guns for a bit before showing any signs of undoing anything. Look at the bad taste OMD left in people's mouths for YEARS, and they were very slow about undoing anything in regards to that. Of course, that was Joe Q's baby, so there was more pride involved. But here's my thinking, if Marvel pushed through with that story knowing months in advance it would leave a bad taste and they did nothing to mitigate it, then they might as well play it out a bit more and get all the exploring they can done with the concept and try to turn minds like they did with BND. I won't be picking up the book, and it'll still be a turn off for many, but I also recognize that you can't be fickle in your changes and you can't instantly bow down to the fans and give them too much power. It needs to be balanced.

Also, i feel that I'd say something completely different if I still had any real Marvel love, specifically for Spider-man, but I don't, so this is what you get. I'm really removed from the comic scene, so I'm not as opinionated anymore, lol.

That said, it really bothers me that MJ can't catch onto any changes in Peter. That's unlike the character she grew into and unrealistic based on how she was just before the Mephisto thing. Keeping that in mind, I guess I keep forgetting that we're dealing with a slightly different, altered MJ, but I'd assume she'd still be able to pick up on subtle things about Peter much better than Carlie Cooper.

[bat1987]

It was the best selling comic in January, so unless the sales drop, there is no way they will shorten its run.
There was a huge backlash on the internet and even death threats to Slott, but internet folks tend to be vocal minority that doesn't reflect sales, and that's the most important factor for comic book companies.

[Tomato]

*sigh*

so a week after setting up this earth shaking reveal in All new xmen as to who else from the Jean Grey school was going to be joining the Uncanny team, uncanny xmen 4 just totally ruined the surprise.

[Podmark]

*sigh*

so a week after setting up this earth shaking reveal in All new xmen as to who else from the Jean Grey school was going to be joining the Uncanny team, uncanny xmen 4 just totally ruined the surprise.

I actually thought that made sense and was expecting it, as the two books were essentially crossing over. Additionally, All-New had already revealed the first set of students that were joining Uncanny.
The original X-Men that joined totally surprised me. I was expecting it to be...

Spoiler

Jean Grey.

EDIT:

Was just looking at the July solicitation for Uncanny Avengers and a new set of Horsemen are revealed...

Spoiler

Daken, Sentry, Banshee, and Grim Reaper.

Daken's inclusion is hilarious. He was apparently killed at the end of his solo series, then returned (with no explanation as far as I know) in Uncanny X-Force before being killed by his father. And now he's back. I think all that happened within 2 years, maybe less. Should be a good reaction with Wolverine.

I really wish they'd keep Banshee dead though. I just don't see much remaining story potential save for a reunion with his daughter.

Also, I wanted to say that Rick Remender is a great writer, possibly my favorite currently. Uncanny X-Force, Venom, Secret Avengers, and Uncanny Avengers have all been excellent reads and I love how he makes them all connect to each other.

[Tomato]

It doesn't bother me that the surprise was ruined, it bothers me how it was revealed... Like, the way I read it, Cyclops was just like "oh, and _____ is here now too. He's totally great and stuff, or something." No explanations on why he's there, no development for the character in question (it had been set up in ANX, but there was no payoff to that in Uncanny) not even a continuation of the scene from ANX... just a splash page with the Cuckoos and the "surprise" character and that's it. More time was spent on Goldballs and the Danger Room in that issue.

Don't get me wrong, I like the series overall, but this issue just fell flat for me. It really ruined a good setup, which is a shame.

But yeah, I'm loving Uncanny Avengers about as much as ANX and Uncanny X-men.

[thalaw2]

There's a character called Goldballs?!?!?!?!?

[Tomato]

There's a character a few other team members jokingly refer to as goldballs, yes. He's one of the students cyclops rescued in the first couple issues. His mutant ability hasn't been explained well yet, but basically whenever he gets attacked his body shoots out a bunch of gold colored orbs that either hover around him or fly all over the place at random.

To be fair, it's still better then the dude whose power seems to be just to randomly shapechange his face into whoever he's nearest to.

Edit: Seriously? The board censorship got me on the plural of "ball"? I mean yeah, I know it can mean the other thing, but really?

[Podmark]

It doesn't bother me that the surprise was ruined, it bothers me how it was revealed... Like, the way I read it, Cyclops was just like "oh, and _____ is here now too. He's totally great and stuff, or something." No explanations on why he's there, no development for the character in question

That's fair.
I expect the explanations and development will come in subsequent issues of at least ANX, and maybe UXM. The thing that really surprised me about ______ joining was the almost nothing was done with that character in the issue of ANX. They tricked me.

[Tomato]

Spoiler

Admittedly, they got me too (I also thought it might be Jean right at first) but had I had more than a week to think about it I likely would have gotten it. I'd already discounted Jean by the time Uncanny came out, mostly because she's mostly the lead character in ANX and the only reason she'd legitimately join Uncanny would be to spy on them.

Looking at the others:

Cyclops- aside from the fact that putting two versions of the same character in a book would be silly, having Kid Cyclops join his older self would destroy his merit as a character, and toss aside his inner turmoil about the person he's going to become.
Iceman-No. Kid Iceman seems to love the JG school, and I doubt Cyclops' message would appeal to him.
Beast-Might have been workable, but not well. It's more likely that he'd do it just to spy out their location, and that destroys the dynamic Uncanny's built over the last 4 issues with their headquarters and such.
Angel- He's shown clear separation from the team right from the start, he's probably resentful of Jean's mind tampering, etc.

[Podmark]

Spoiler

Well we knew it couldn't be kid Cyclops as he'd been shown in the scene where the off screen Original joined Uncanny.
I figured it was Jean mostly because a) big focus and b) biggest impact. But I thought she'd just join to spy, I'm not even discounting Warren joining as a spy.
The real trick to me was that Warren does nothing in either of the last issues of All-New or Uncanny, so I really wasn't thinking about him, even though as you pointed out he does make the most sense.

[Tomato]

 

Spoiler

I feel like Angel might be a spy eventually, but not from the start like Jean would have been. The big thing with Uncanny, especially in this last issue has been establishing their headquarters... which gets ruined the moment a spy reveals their location and they have to move. Long term yeah, I can't see Angel falling in line with them, but for right now I don't think he's going to jump into betraying them.

[Silver Shocker]

Superior Spider-Man #9. The issue Marvel says will make you more angry than Spidey 700

Spoiler

Doc Ock uses some kind of high-tech device to attempt to erase "Ghost Peter" from his brain.  The process, not surprisingly, involves a battle between Ock and Spidey inside a world in their mind. There's cameos by Peter's human, civilian supporting cast, as well, as his rogue's gallery (largely stemming from the Ditko era). One by one, Doc Ock erases characters and events from Peter's memory, as Pete struggles to remember those events and people's names. The villains are shown killing some of the supporting cast (the burgler shoots Uncle Ben, Ock kills Captain Stacy, and the Green Goblin shoots Gwen Stacy in the back with his finger beams). As the fight nears its end, both Pete and Otto rip off their faces to reveal their Spider-Man costumes, with Ock once again declaring himself "The Superior Spider-Man". Pete calls him out on this, pointing out that he's made the Avengers untrusting of him, brutally beaten villains to the point that people are scared of him, and murdered one of them (Massacre). Dock Ock points out that the police support Spider-Man now more than ever, and that Massacre killed 30 people, including someone Peter knew (Dr. Ashley Kafka). Doc then brings up a young ill girl whom he was trying to treat before Ghost Peter interfered (the events of last issue). Pete pointed out that he didn't want Ock using the device that allowed Ock to find and be aware of Ghost Peter's presence inside his body, much less find a way to get rid of him. Ock then accuses Pete of placing his own well-being over that of the little girl (during this sequence Pete is portrayed as looking weak, guilt-stricken, and unconvincing as he tries to explain himself, indicating that Pete takes this to be true.) Ock then declares that Peter lacks the much-vaunted responsibility expected of Spider-Man, doesn't deserve to be Spider-Man, and "commences mindwipe", which is visualized as Peter being crushed under rubble.  Right before this happens, Peter is shown struggling to remember his own name, calling himself "Peter Palmer" (probably a throwback to the Brand New Day character Dexter Bennett, who couldn't remember Peter's name)[EDIT: I was wrong, It's actually a reference to a typo from an old Silver Age issue that became an in joke] Cut to the real world, where Ock declares himself victorious.

I'll start with the art, since that won't take long. I like Ryan Stegman, but he's not always at his best, and here while I liked his depiction of all the other characters, I hated his Doc Ock. I've never particularly liked Ock's classic "green jumpsuit" look, unless a really good (usually "classic") artist does it, and Ock wears this look in the world in his mind (which is fair; it's his iconic look, and that's what they were going for). Here he just looks ugly, thugly, and almost ape-like, though I'll grant the parts where he's meant to look freaky are pulled off well.

As for the story, it's a exciting little trip down memory lane, but that's not really the part anyone wants to talk about, is it? No, the real meat of the issue here is the complete destruction of Peter Parker (or so it would seem). Many people could guess this was going to happen, but the real one-two punch is the destruction of his memories, and the implication that Peter is a "selfish hypocrite" (as I've already seen people call him online in regards to this issue). The "memory loss" part seems especially mean-spirited, probably more-so than any other Spidey story I've read since One More Day. As for the little girl, I went back and checked the previous issue and in it Pete does indeed want to stop Ock from getting his helmet device, at first, but after he finds out about the girl's condition, he's shown as supportive towards Ock treating her. So I don't really buy that "You would have let that little girl die" bit. As for the implication that Pete is a "selfish hypocrite", that's kinda always been a staple of Spider-Man. Pete's often let his emotions cloud his judgement, but he tries to make up for it; that's what's always made him a hero. He's constantly blaming himself for everything, but that's just his nature.

As for whether Pete's gone for good? Psaw, yeah, right. We all know he'll be back. He could very well be back by the very next issue.

[BlueBard]

Superior Spider-Man #9. The issue Marvel says will make you more angry than Spidey 700

It might... if I cared that much anymore.

The only modern version of Spider-Man that still resonates with me at all is the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon (the one where he works for S.H.I.E.L.D.) on Netflix.

Let's face it, Marvel has been destroying Peter Parker for years.  This is just a continuation of that process.

If and when they put Peter Parker back in Peter Parker's body, then maybe they'll get my attention again.

[bat1987]

Superior Spider-Man 14

Spoiler

This book is sooooo much fun. I love Ock's approach to fighting crime, minions and all. And Kingpin being scared was kinda cool too. The only time that i find changing the person under the costume justified is when it makes the book a totally different experience, which SS totally does! We all know Peter will be back at some point, I recommend enjoying the ride in the meantime.

[Tomato]

I can't... I don't... WHAT!?!

So, I just "caught up" on the "Battle for the Atom" crossover that's been going on for the last few weeks... and I am at the point where I want time travel to dig itself a pit to the center of the earth, bury itself, and then have someone build a tower on top of it that stretches all the way up to the moon so that it can never escape. 

Spoiler

So, before I start this, I want it noted that the last issue I've read of this story is part 6, All New X-men #17. The crossover still has 4 more parts to go. It's important that you know this, because we have already flown off the crazy train and we still have four more issues for it to get WORSE.

As most of you are aware, the current "flagship" X-book is "All-new X-men," which features the original X-men coming into the present and stirring up craziness, and it's actually one of the better books, yes?

Wll, the event starts with X-men from the future (Future versions of Jean, Kitty, Beast, Deadpool, and Xavier's grandson) coming back to make the past X-men go back to their proper time, and the first bit of the book has all this craziness because the future X-men won't tell the current X-men or Past X-men why the past X-men have to go back, but they're super aggressive about them having to go back (to the point where even present X-men who feel like the x-men should go back are like "guys, calm down")

After a ton of big action scenes where past Jean and Cyclops are like "We're not going back!" and attack everyone, past Jean pulls a Miss Martian and looks into her future self's mind, finally agreeing to go back... That is, until Magik takes some of the other Past X-men into the future, and they discover that the future X-men AREN'T the future X-men, but just crazy future versions of some of the X-men that are messing with the timestream even more because Dazzler was killed.

[Podmark]

Yeah this crossover isn't the best, though I find it's biggest problem is just lacking something really compelling. I will say that the twist from the latest issues piqued my interest.

While this storyline has been a little mediocre I have been really enjoyed the X-Books for a while. Bendis transitioned to them really smoothly and his books are among my favorite each month. I am curious what will happen to All-New after the crossover. I really doubt that the original X-Men will be going anywhere, at least not all of them, but there's going to be some kind of change. X-23 is going to appear in the coming months so that's got me excited. It also implies that she survives Avengers Arena (which is a surprisingly good read).

The first arc of Brian Wood's X-Men was pretty good, though it wrapped up pretty quick.