The Marvel Thread

[Podmark]

Yeah I'll agree with you about Second Coming Previsionary. Complex was far superior. Second Coming should have been 2 months at most and have the writers write less decompressed issues. The book needed some more story beats and I wonder if maybe Hellbound and Blind Science should have been rolled into the main books. Marvel also needs to be more careful with solicitations and upcoming covers because they basically gave away the entire story. There's still one more issue but we needed at least one definitive thing about Hope. And she better be used significantly from now on or the entire point of this trilogy and the Cable ongoing will be pointless.
I enjoyed it enough to pick up the whole thing but it could have been so much better.

[Previsionary]

Once Second Coming is over, Hellion, Hope, Psylocke, Colossus, Omega Sentinel (Karima), and Danger are heading into the lime light via Carey's X-men Legacy. Could this mean it'll stop being a Rogue + lesser New X-men book and start focusing on the future and how Hope is supposed to be important? Still, it's great to see Psylocke and Colossus used in stories again outside of being bland fighters and cannon fodder.

[Podmark]

Once Second Coming is over, Hellion, Hope, Psylocke, Colossus, Omega Sentinel (Karima), and Danger are heading into the lime light via Carey's X-men Legacy. Could this mean it'll stop being a Rogue + lesser New X-men book and start focusing on the future and how Hope is supposed to be important? Still, it's great to see Psylocke and Colossus used in stories again outside of being bland fighters and cannon fodder.

Actually thats the second arc after Second Coming. The first one is Rogue, Magneto and the survivors of Alpha Squadron in India to face the Children of the Vault.

I'm pretty sure it's going to remain the Rogue and students book though.

[murs47]

Will Legacy be tied into this vampire business?

[Podmark]

Will Legacy be tied into this vampire business?

Carey's already detailed at least his next six issues none of which involve vampires, surely that will get us outside of the vampire stuff. Right? Right?  

Actually it's possible the Hellion arc could have vampires. We don't know too much about it yet.

[Podmark]

Bleeding Cool is reporting that New X-Force will be renamed Uncanny X-Force and that the team will consist of Wolverine, Archangel, Fantomex, Deadpool and Psylocke (which what we were guessing here).

[murs47]

Bleeding Cool is reporting that New X-Force will be renamed Uncanny X-Force and that the team will consist of Wolverine, Archangel, Fantomex, Deadpool and Psylocke (which what we were guessing here).

Sweet! That's a pretty cool line-up

[Previsionary]

Hrm, well it's confirmed and Jeff Parker's Atlas was canceled again. Unfortunately, despite Marvel trying everything in its power to keep the book going, it just wasn't a big draw. Jeff has some bad luck with his funny books despite being an above average writer the majority of the time.

Jeff Parker: Why hello, Chris!

CA: How's it going, Jeff? Thanks for taking a minute to chat between writing your... what is it, 28 monthly titles now?

JP: Oh please, it's just 26. About to be 25.

CA: Uh oh. I don't like the sound of that.

JP: Me neither, so I might as well rip the bandaid off now. I'm killing "Atlas" at issue 5.

CA: Oh no!

JP: Yeah. So there, haters who predicted we'd go down- you win! Don't you feel great and wise? But at least it was me who went out back and shot Lenny while he looked for bunnies, not Marvel.

CA: So what brought this on?

JP: Well first, maybe we should embed an audio file for mood. I'd suggest "Parting of the Sensory" by Modest Mouse.

Anyway, our orders for ATLAS 1 started off in the low 20ks, which isn't surprising because a lot of things are coming in low right now, and we've always been on the fringe. Atlas has actually always sold better than a lot of books that get to go on much longer- a good bit of DC's line. But the Marvel danger zone is 20k more or less, and since books tend to trend downward, that always sets off alarms. I know some people think I try to cram them in everywhere, but that's really more editors suggesting it, and me usually agreeing. I brought up at least four different characters for "Deadpool Team Up" that were shot down before I finally said "uh... Gorilla Man?" and got greenlit. And that issue has ordered really well, so that makes me think Gorilla Man is probably a character who will have some legs after Atlas. Namora too.

CA: So this is the end?

JP: Yeah. I could have kept it going, but the options offered were to tie the book into another crossover mini-event, I just wasn't feeling it. I did it a couple of times already and feel we got some good stuff out of it, but I'm just not interested in doing it again, introducing the team again, all that. This 3-D Man story really turned out to be pretty great, it's going to be a definite highwater mark. And I don't want to follow it with something that would probably be less inspired. Because the whole reason for doing the book is to do the kinds of stories I set the book up for, and if we're not going to do that, there's not much point.

At least we got a Gorilla man spin off???

[Podmark]

Sometimes no matter how good a book is, the character(s) just aren't enough of a draw. That's what happed with Atlas.

[murs47]

I'm officially pumped, Deadpool is finally with a cast! Can't go wrong with Fantomex either and I'm sure Psylocke fans are happy she's getting some serious limelight. I'm also glad they are keeping Warren as Archangel, he hasn't been interesting to me since...uhm...he wasn't Archangel. We all know about Wolverine already. But, to be honest, this and Aaron's Weapon X are where he belongs. The real question is: will Podmark be expanding his X-Force skin set?

[AfghanAnt]

Honestly including Fantomex and Deadpool to a mutant protection strikeforce seems out of character for Cyke. Especially given his "if you aren't a mutant, get out" persona. In fact, he should have probably kicked Danger, Mirage, and Psylocke off of Utopia. Though one could argue that Psylocke current body has the x-gene but originally she was half-human, half-otherworlder like Jamie and Brian (both non-mutants). Whatever, I'm probably going to buy this.

[Podmark]

The real question is: will Podmark be expanding his X-Force skin set?

That answer will probably be yes, but it may depend on whether I pick up the book.

Supposedly Wolverine is fully in charge of this version of X-Force not Cyclops.


AA that Cloak and Dagger one shot made no sense for Cyclops. Matt Fraction had Cyclops say that Utopia was open to the families of the mutants as well, and the Russian girls should still be on the island, and of course there's characters like Danger, Prodigy, Moonstar, Warlock, and Ink who Cyclops welcomed with open arms. Not to mention that Cyclops himself welcomed Cloak and Dagger to Utopia at the end of the crossover.
That was just a lazy excuse by a writer to write out Cloak and Dagger, it's not how Cyclops thinks.

[Previsionary]

Eh, you're assuming the current X-writers remember anything about classic Psylocke and her British history. None of them actually reference it... ever. Not even Carey. . As far as they're concerned, she's a psychic/telekinetic ninja in a bathing suit that can fight well (and be a flashlight if under Fraction's pen). Fantomex has an in just because of how Fraction utilized him. Still, as Kitty would say, CYCLOPS IS A JERK!

[Wonder when they're gonna get Reed to undo Kitty's perma-phase like he did last time. Eh.]

[cmdrkoenig67]

Honestly including Fantomex and Deadpool to a mutant protection strikeforce seems out of character for Cyke. Especially given his "if you aren't a mutant, get out" persona. In fact, he should have probably kicked Danger, Mirage, and Psylocke off of Utopia. Though one could argue that Psylocke current body has the x-gene but originally she was half-human, half-otherworlder like Jamie and Brian (both non-mutants). Whatever, I'm probably going to buy this.

According to Marvel's description of "mutants", wouldn't Betsy, Brian and Jamie all qualify as mutants (just as Namor does)?  They possess abilities not possessed by either parent?  I dunno...Maybe they don't have the "x-gene", but they fit into Namor's description of a mutant hybrid.

Dana

[AfghanAnt]

Honestly including Fantomex and Deadpool to a mutant protection strikeforce seems out of character for Cyke. Especially given his "if you aren't a mutant, get out" persona. In fact, he should have probably kicked Danger, Mirage, and Psylocke off of Utopia. Though one could argue that Psylocke current body has the x-gene but originally she was half-human, half-otherworlder like Jamie and Brian (both non-mutants). Whatever, I'm probably going to buy this.

According to Marvel's description of "mutants", wouldn't Betsy, Brian and Jamie all qualify as mutants (just as Namor does)?  They possess abilities not possessed by either parent?  I dunno...Maybe they don't have the "x-gene", but they fit into Namor's description of a mutant hybrid.

Dana

That's actually not the definition of a mutant in Marvel: "a mutant is an individual who possesses a genetic trait called an X-gene that allows them to naturally develop superhuman powers and abilities. Mutants are members of the subspecies Homo sapiens superior, an evolutionary progeny of Homo sapiens, and are considered the next stage in human evolution."

All of the Braddock children have powers because of their mystical ties to the Otherworld. Namor is classified as a mutant but I don't think he has the x-gene (I could be wrong especially since he was classified as the first mutant in House of M).

[Talavar]

Honestly including Fantomex and Deadpool to a mutant protection strikeforce seems out of character for Cyke. Especially given his "if you aren't a mutant, get out" persona. In fact, he should have probably kicked Danger, Mirage, and Psylocke off of Utopia. Though one could argue that Psylocke current body has the x-gene but originally she was half-human, half-otherworlder like Jamie and Brian (both non-mutants). Whatever, I'm probably going to buy this.

According to Marvel's description of "mutants", wouldn't Betsy, Brian and Jamie all qualify as mutants (just as Namor does)?  They possess abilities not possessed by either parent?  I dunno...Maybe they don't have the "x-gene", but they fit into Namor's description of a mutant hybrid.

Dana

That's actually not the definition of a mutant in Marvel: "a mutant is an individual who possesses a genetic trait called an X-gene that allows them to naturally develop superhuman powers and abilities. Mutants are members of the subspecies Homo sapiens superior, an evolutionary progeny of Homo sapiens, and are considered the next stage in human evolution."

All of the Braddock children have powers because of their mystical ties to the Otherworld. Namor is classified as a mutant but I don't think he has the x-gene (I could be wrong especially since he was classified as the first mutant in House of M).

How is Namor the first mutant in-world though?  I mean, chronologically in real life, the character of Namor is sort of the first mutant character, but in-setting, there are mutants much older than Namor - Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister to name two.

[Previsionary]

He's not... it's just a title at this point. Perhaps he's the first RECOGNIZED mutant or something. Also, Dana's definition of a mutant was one Marvel clung to for awhile (see: Rachel Grey. She wasn't a mutant because of her genes and powers... but because she had the ability to send her mind across time, something her mother couldn't do.). It's like that rule that mutant siblings can't hurt each other that comes and goes whenever it's convenient.

[Podmark]

Namor was called Marvel's first mutant well before House of M. It was just a marketing ploy meaning that he was the first character introduced by Marvel to be a mutant - even though they only started calling him that afterwards.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Um...That's the new(er) definition, AA...Not the original (thanks, Prev).

Dana

The original definition is here...

http://marvel.com/universe/Category_talk:Mutants

"Marvel's policy is that a mutant is defined as someone who has a genetic "x-factor" that allows him or her to exhibit traits different than his or her parents."

Honestly including Fantomex and Deadpool to a mutant protection strikeforce seems out of character for Cyke. Especially given his "if you aren't a mutant, get out" persona. In fact, he should have probably kicked Danger, Mirage, and Psylocke off of Utopia. Though one could argue that Psylocke current body has the x-gene but originally she was half-human, half-otherworlder like Jamie and Brian (both non-mutants). Whatever, I'm probably going to buy this.

According to Marvel's description of "mutants", wouldn't Betsy, Brian and Jamie all qualify as mutants (just as Namor does)?  They possess abilities not possessed by either parent?  I dunno...Maybe they don't have the "x-gene", but they fit into Namor's description of a mutant hybrid.

That's actually not the definition of a mutant in Marvel: "a mutant is an individual who possesses a genetic trait called an X-gene that allows them to naturally develop superhuman powers and abilities. Mutants are members of the subspecies Homo sapiens superior, an evolutionary progeny of Homo sapiens, and are considered the next stage in human evolution."

All of the Braddock children have powers because of their mystical ties to the Otherworld. Namor is classified as a mutant but I don't think he has the x-gene (I could be wrong especially since he was classified as the first mutant in House of M).

What I don't get is that Brian seems to be the only one who's powers depend on his Otherworld connection...Betsy and Jamie don't seem to be hindered in that way.  Betsy's powers even went with her when her soul/mind/spirit was placed in Kwannon's body.  Poor Brian seems to be the weakest of the three...And he and Betsy are twins.

Dana

[Previsionary]

Hrm? No, that's not how his powers work anymore. His powers are now directly related to his confidence levels and emotions. It's not even related to his costume anymore. See: Captain Britain and the MI13 issues #1-4 (Secret Invasion tie in)
------

Anyway, any books read today? End of Second Coming? Kyle and Yost's final X-force story (X-force: Sex and Violence)? The end of Grim Hunt?

[AfghanAnt]

Actually Betsy power did not go soul to body. Kwannon was mutant with psychic powers who was inhabited by Betsy after the fact. Considering Psylocke was an English character without ties to the X-Men or that psychic knife, and she was born of otherworlder magic, not a marvel comics x-gene proves she is not as mutant.

[Podmark]

Anyway, any books read today? End of Second Coming? Kyle and Yost's final X-force story (X-force: Sex and Violence)? The end of Grim Hunt?

Light on time so a few quick thoughts.

Second Coming #2

Spoiler

4 stories. I liked the Yost and Kyle one best as it closed out X-Force and set up the next X-Force which is fully ran by Wolverine and a secret to Cyclops. Cyclops no longer thinks he needs a X-Force but he's happy with the work they did. Sadly that story was drawn by Land

Fraction's story had Emma see Hope create Phoenix flames and ends with Cyclops discovering 5 new mutant signatures.

The rest was mostly meh, art was ok.

Hellbound was ok. I wasn't huge on Tolibao's art in this series.

I actually really enjoyed X-Force Sex and Violence. Art is very nice, story is simple but well done I thought. The Assassins Guild is after Domino after she double crossed them and Wolverine is helping her.

Grim Hunt

Spoiler

End results:

Mattie Franklin = killed by Sasha.
Madame Web = killed by Sasha.
Julia Carpenter = gained Madame Web's powers and role.
Arana = given Julia's costume.
Kaine = killed by Sasha, but rises from the grave at the end with the caption calling him Taratula.
Kraven= resurrected, possibly can only be killed by Spider-Man.
Sasha = killed by Kraven at the end.
Vladimir = killed by Kraven at the end.
Alyosha = left Kraven.
Ana =  stayed with Kraven, was sent to kill Alyosha.

That's essentially it. Spider-Man defeated Kraven by the end but thanks to Arana and Julia he refused to kill him (Spidey was consumed by rage by the end of the story). The Kravens escaped to the Savage Land at the end and Sergei decided to thin the herd and killed Sasha and Vladimir. Ana wants to be trained by him but Alyosha wanted out. Sergei told Ana that he would train whichever of her and Alyosha was still alive so she left to kill her brother.
Was a pretty good story, might have benefited from another issue as there were a lot of characters in play here. I'm very interested with the Kaine twist at the end.  

I also read Avengers Academy, which was pretty good. It essentially just fleshes out the character of Finesse who is a girl who learns skills easily but doesn't understand human interaction.

[Previsionary]

Yes... that Land art paired with Yost and Kyle was... very juxtaposing in how much I enjoy those people's work separately. Really contrasting. I need Land out of the X-books and into a series I don't care about... like DP teamup.

Sex and Violence was pretty good. I'm trying to figure out if this takes place before or during the time Wolverine hooked up with reporter girl over in Weapon X. I'm assuming before because I recall Domino giving Wolvie advice on his relationship in the same book.

Deadpool Origins was alright. It poked and had a lot of fun at the idea of a Deadpool movie and how bad it could go. I enjoyed it for what it was, and I'm convinced Duane long S-name can write DP better than Way. That's a compliment from me. Besides, James Cameron and Michael Bay jokes are the in-thing right now, right?

[Podmark]

Sex and Violence was pretty good. I'm trying to figure out if this takes place before or during the time Wolverine hooked up with reporter girl over in Weapon X. I'm assuming before because I recall Domino giving Wolvie advice on his relationship in the same book.

I was hoping it would include a note giving some indication of when it's supposed to take place. It's obviously somewhere between the Old Ghosts arc and Necrosha. I have no idea how that lines up with Weapon X.

[Previsionary]

The only thing I can hope for out of the Second Coming finale is that Hope learns to be interesting (nice explanation of her powers, guys. *eyes rolling*) and that Emma finally finds her way home to her personality. Gravy, I'd even take the Morrison/Whedon personality again. Submissive, Jean-lite Emma is not what I want. Why is Marvel and the X-editors letting Fraction tame her so much? The fact that I no longer dislike her but feel bad for her should say all it needs to! "Always good," my boot. My boot, I say. My boot!

[lugaru]

Anyone pick up Shadowland #1? I really dug the book... I'm a huge street level fan so a whole crossover revolving around Matt Murdoch has me psyched. Also with one promo image come true (Daredevil Vs Bullseye, for keeps) I cant wait to see some more come true (like restored Frank Castle).

[murs47]

I picked it up last week and thought it was a decent start. This week's DD issue was pretty good. Hopefully Shadowland keeps climbing up, a "bad" DD could be a lot of fun, even if it temporary.

[Deaths Jester]

Bleeding Cool is reporting that New X-Force will be renamed Uncanny X-Force and that the team will consist of Wolverine, Archangel, Fantomex, Deadpool and Psylocke (which what we were guessing here).

My only question is..why isn't X-23 and Domino included in this group?  I mean, they fit the X-Force idea so much better than any other team.  Or did I miss these two dying or something?

[Previsionary]

Wolverine doesn't want X23 on the team anymore. He finally decided to stop using her as a weapon and let her attempt at becoming a little more regular. Henceforth, she will be getting said development in her solo ongoing. Domino... eh, who knows?

[deano_ue]

Grim Hunt

Spoiler

End results:

Mattie Franklin = killed by Sasha.
Madame Web = killed by Sasha.
Julia Carpenter = gained Madame Web's powers and role.
Arana = given Julia's costume.
Kaine = killed by Sasha, but rises from the grave at the end with the caption calling him Taratula.
Kraven= resurrected, possibly can only be killed by Spider-Man.
Sasha = killed by Kraven at the end.
Vladimir = killed by Kraven at the end.
Alyosha = left Kraven.
Ana =  stayed with Kraven, was sent to kill Alyosha.

That's essentially it. Spider-Man defeated Kraven by the end but thanks to Arana and Julia he refused to kill him (Spidey was consumed by rage by the end of the story). The Kravens escaped to the Savage Land at the end and Sergei decided to thin the herd and killed Sasha and Vladimir. Ana wants to be trained by him but Alyosha wanted out. Sergei told Ana that he would train whichever of her and Alyosha was still alive so she left to kill her brother.
Was a pretty good story, might have benefited from another issue as there were a lot of characters in play here. I'm very interested with the Kaine twist at the end. 

agreed grim hunt was a lot better than i thought it had any right to be, it'll be one that works really well as a tpb, one thing though

Spoiler

when in the hell did spidey learn to the whole mark of kaine thing