The Marvel Thread

[thanoson]

I'm pretty turned on by those Land mouths. Eew.

[Previsionary]

As someone who didn't read any of the Bendis tie-in books I didn't really have much difficulty following Siege. Yeah I'm probably not getting the full picture but I thought it read alright by itself. So what was I missing with Loki?

Siege: Loki wasn't a Bendis book. It was written by current Thor writer, Kieron Gillen. The important thing about Loki's motivations were revealed in JMS's - Kieron's Thor run, and Siege: Loki was specifically about this event. It revealed that Loki was tired of Asgard following its cycle (Thor being noble, Baldur being brave, etc.) and decided it needed to be cleaned. This is what led to him manipulating Norman. This also explains part of the story in New Mutants in regards to Dani and her role as a valkryie. It's a very important part of the story that "Siege" didn't even bother to cover. It shows just how cunning and manipulative Loki was being, and how far ahead he planned. He, Hela, and Mephisto even made arrangements for something that should be coming into play. It also explains why Loki's "situation" is not such a big deal to him. All important things that should have been apparent in the main book. Without some of these plot points, you're missing concepts and stories that have been put into play. Having Loki only appear in a few scenes in Siege 4 when he's nowhere to be found in Siege 1-3 is just weird... and yet, we got to see Asgard fall almost 200 [exag.] times. Loki didn't just change his mind in this story, dear Pod; he's attempting to make his mark on this world. In his words: "This isn't mischief. This is Mayhem. Just watch."

[I suppose it also shows how right the Mighty Avengers were in not trusting Hank's misguided decisions.]

Obviously, Thor 609 was the follow up, which showed Loki pleading with Baldur, putting more of his plans into effect.

So will this Namor book be working off X-Men or will he be doing his own thing?

It says spin-off... and atlantean vampires... so I think it's a combo of both.

And in the Legacy preview did Luke Cage join the X-Men between scenes? Honestly I have no idea who the bald black guy with the goatee is supposed to be.

LOL. I was scratching my head trying to figure out who that guy was. I automatically went, "Is Bishop back? Wait... that's a New Mutants costume. Did Roberto become black?" I also thought it was an older Prodigy.

[Podmark]

Hmm, sounds like at least some of that should have been in there, but the way you described it it sounds pretty involved and only lightly related to the main point of Siege. It actually sounds like the kind of thing that would be prefect for a tie - specifically a Thor tie-in as it's most relevant to that series.

I also thought it was an older Prodigy.

But Prodigy was just shown on the previous page! Arrgh Land 

[Previsionary]

Yes, it was fine for a tie in, but some of it should have been in Siege because Loki was pushing things... and what was Siege about? The Siege of Asgard. So, you know.... . I will review something else... in this space. Later.


Marvels Project #8 (4):

Ed brubaker's take on Marvel's golden age finally comes to a conclusion, and I must say I enjoyed the ride. With the majority of the book focused on what happened on Dec. 7, 1941 in two different locations, we finally get to see the formation of some of Marvel's earlier heroic teams! That's right, the Invaders and The Howling Commandos. There were some subtle character building moments in the book that I truly enjoyed like Jim Hammond's (Human Torch I) response to the destruction of pearl harbor and how inhuman people could behave, and I loved how the book closed on a circular note. I give this issue a 4. When this is put out in trade, I recommend that you all consider giving it a read.

Deadpool Team Up #893 (1):

The only reason I picked this book up is because of Captain Britain. I'm not a fan of Deadpool Team Up. I wasn't a fan of it from issue one (or #899, since this is its gimmick), which was written by Fred Van Lente (which Murs reminded me of. I had effectively wiped it from my mind) and featured Hercules, Deadpool, and Arcade. This set up reminds me of what Cable and Deadpool did for their final few issues except it was more successful. It also reminds me of Ultimate Trio, written by me, which you all need to go read. Anyway, the story in this issue is that Deadpool is traveling to England to grab some of Slaymaster's hidden stash (and there's some intense stereotyping in this sequence). Meanwhile, Pete Wisdom and some random techie are alerting Brian/Captain Britain of this stash as well and send him after it, considering Slaymaster is Brian's (and Psylocke's) old enemy. Anyway, the two characters eventually meet up and the typical misunderstanding (which has been the basis of every book thus far to my knowledge) occurs, which makes the two go at it while the main threat accomplishes his goal.

I want to take a sidebar for a second and point out the art in this issue is fairly blah. I've also got a problem with all the accents and double box captions in this issue. It annoyed me, and I already dislike the triple personality that D. Way introduced during his run. And if I see one more joke about all of Deadpool's monthly titles, I will go down to Marvel's office and off them.

To end this, this issue bordered on offensive quite a few time and relayed HEAVILY on every stereotype it could. From Deadpool mimicking all the Bond accents, and then speaking bad "English" (read: British dialect), to the "culture switch," which made Captain Britain speak like a surfer... or a stoner... or Ashton Kutcher. I didn't enjoy the book at all, and I'm reminded why I haven't picked up this book since the first issue. 1 out of 5. If I had my choice, I'd say lets leave Slaymaster and his legacy alone. We just got rid of the time hopping one last year; we definitely don't need anyone to take up that mantle. Overall, this book was a mess. Possibly the worst of the DP books. I originally thought that title belonged to Merc w/ a Mouth, but I was wrong. Not recommended at all. Sorry, Rob Williams. I'm not impressed.

Spoiler

[Podmark]

Siege was about the fall of the Dark Reign and the rise of the Heroic Age. Asgard was really more of a backdrop and a vehicle to work Thor back into the Avengers.

[Previsionary]

That's the Marvel reason, Podnifico, not the in-universe reason. They were in Asgard, Loki had major plans for Asgard all throughout Dark Reign, and then he was only in a few pages of the main book where he did nothing of importance other than be a target. I guess I expected too much because not even Dark Reign, or the actions therein, played a big part in what went down in this event. Everything just seemed like an afterthought.

Anyways, is Tony rich again (with assets to his name) or is he not? I was already aware from Bendis's Siege #1 script that he thinks his scripts influences what Fraction does, but Invincible Ironman #25 and Siege #4 leave Tony in two completely different states financially. I wish the writers appeared to be on the same page sometimes.


If anyone ever thinks I'm tough on books (and lit in general), then this reviewer makes me look like a novice.

Also, added a few reviews to my previous post.

[murs47]

As critical as the reviewer is, he's absolutely right. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the first 3 issues of Siege but that has to be the worst event conclusion I have ever read in my life.

[lugaru]

I'm pretty turned on by those Land mouths. Eew.

Speaking of which I present to you a bunch of Manara mouths. Yeah, Manara has an X-Men special coming out soon in the US.

Work safe... but still suggestive.

Spoiler

[The Enigma]

Siege: Loki wasn't a Bendis book. It was written by current Thor writer, Kieron Gillen.

Kieron's writing for the big boys now? That's kinda awesome. I mostly remember him from his time on PC Gamer in the late 90s (and, of course, from Phonogram). Is he actually any good at writing existing Marvel characters? (The plot as you described it sounds a bit odd, Prev, but I figure that's an editorial decision.)

[Previsionary]

Kieron's writes an adequate Thor book. I enjoy his stuff. His Siege one shot is a top tier tie in (with Siege: Captain America being a low tier one to put it in perspective). I guess you need to know some of what happened in Thor, Dark Reign, and the actual Siege event to understand the particulars of Siege: Loki. As it stands, Kieron handles Thor and the asgardians as well as JMS did. The shift in writers wasn't very noticeable to me at all, so that's a major accomplishment.

Lugaru, I saw scans of that book when it came out in Europe. I wasn't impressed that Claremont would even endorse and write such a thing.

[BentonGrey]

I'm pretty turned on by those Land mouths. Eew.

Speaking of which I present to you a bunch of Manara mouths. Yeah, Manara has an X-Men special coming out soon in the US.

Work safe... but still suggestive.

Spoiler

*Shakes head* And people say women aren't taken seriously in comics.  How silly. 

That is really a bit much, hmm?

[Previsionary]

Brubaker on Secret Avengers: http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.12491.secret_avengers_assemble

[hoss20]

   First off, I only collect a limited amount of comics, so I've missed a lot of what's happened the past few years. Please forgive me if I sound ignorant or make an incorrect statement.
   That being said, I have to agree that Siege #4 was disappointing. The artwork was suprisingly poor and inconsistent. I love Coipel's work and this was really a letdown. Podmark mentioned that he thought Coipel may have been rushed, but honestly, I don't see how that can happen. If he's working on other titles, that would be a factor. The only reason for him to be rushed is if they didn't get the story to him in proper time. I would think that a universe altering event like this would have been planned out well in advance and would take precedence over anything else, seeing that it affects so many characters. Even with a delayed release, the quality was still subpar.
   As someone already stated, the timing of events was poor throughout the whole series. I know this can be difficult due to all the tie-ins and delays, but

Spoiler

I saw Loki get blown to smithereens weeks ago in another title, so this event lost all impact for me in Siege #4

   I guess I'm pretty much agreeing with everything that Prev said. The fight scene was pretty unspectacular. I don't know how you have a being that literally ripped one god to pieces and obliterated another to have so much difficulty with the group he faced at the end.

Spoiler

I would have at least expected Thor to have to resort to his God-Force to do any damage.

   I also think the motivation for those who assisted in the defense was a little skewed. It seemed like they were more concerned with getting in the way of Normon's plans than assisting Thor and Asgard. I mean, Thor has faced death multiple times alongside a number of these characters.
   On that last note, I noticed three distinct absences in the defense of Asgard.
   1. Beta Ray Bill: He's doing the cosmic thing, so I can understand his absence. Though, I believe the Asgardians would have some way to reach him.
   2. Hercules: From what I was able to research, Olympus had it's own issues that he was tending to and ended up dying. (Though, it looks like he will be restored)
   3. Tarene (Thor Girl): The last time I saw her was when Ragnarok took on The Initiative a little while ago. She owes Thor and Asgard quite a bit and I was surprised not to see her in attendance.

   And, lastly, a question: Wasn't The Void extracted from The Sentry by Emma frost? I have a friend who collects the X-Men titles who filled me in on this. He doesn't keep up with his reading, though, and had no answers for me when I asked him how The Void was back with The Sentry.
   Well, thanks for reading my little rant and I'm sorry I'm not current with my current Marvel Universe happenings.

[Podmark]

A lot of the top comics artist take more than a month to finish an issue, so despite lead time many of them can't do more than 3 or 4 issues in a row before they needed a break. I'm quite sure Coipel is one of these artists as Thor was regularly delayed while he was on it. The delay is unlikely to be Bendis' fault since he writes multiple books that ship on time. I'm pretty sure Coipel got behind on schedule and was rushing to get the book finished without too much of a delay. But that has happened on every big event.

I'm disappointed we didn't see any Tarene either - not in the main book but in the Initiative or Thor. Wasn't Thor fighting Ragnarok in his own book? Tarene didn't show up did she?

[Previsionary]

No, Thor nor Thor Girl fought Ragnarok. The other Asgardians (Volstagg specifically) did. Thor wasn't in the Thor book during the Siege tie in. It was effectively The Asgardian book at the time.

I personally would like Bendis to write less books. Ignoring that I have serious issues with his writing ticks (that have not improved in years), it just seems like Marvel is stretching him thin, so a lot of his work becomes mediocre and falls into the "hit and miss" territory more often than it probably should. Marvel is the only company that I know of that would put such a large work load on one writer, despite how well he may handle it, and expect him to deliver gold over and over. Apply that thinking to other things in the real world and see how it would fall apart and how many more people would complain. It's just not logical.

Overall, Marvel is too lapse on their delays. What other job let's you miss your scheduled deadline repeatedly with no consequence? Once in awhile? Fine. Several months later? No... there's something wrong there. Again, I point to Astonishing X-men still not being done while the relaunched Astonishing book started last week. Astonishing X-men #35 has been pushed back around 10 times (8 months?), and we're still no closer to getting it. Meanwhile, X-men Forever is about to hit the 30 issues benchmark and it's been around a year. I'm all for nice art, but if the delays are causing issues for other people (and a series of other books), then I really don't think it should be tolerated. This isn't aimed at Coipel specifically, btb.

[cmdrkoenig67]

As critical as the reviewer is, he's absolutely right. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the first 3 issues of Siege but that has to be the worst event conclusion I have ever read in my life.

Haven't almost every Bendis-involved big event ended with a thud?  It seems to me, most of them don't make sense, have huge plot holes, don't pan out and/or leave many readers wondering, "WTF?".

Dana

[murs47]

As critical as the reviewer is, he's absolutely right. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the first 3 issues of Siege but that has to be the worst event conclusion I have ever read in my life.

Haven't almost every Bendis-involved big event ended with a thud?  It seems to me, most of them don't make sense, have huge plot holes, don't pan out and/or leave many readers wondering, "WTF?".

Dana

I'd say so, yes. But the conclusion to Siege, quite frankly, just felt unprofessional. I feel Bendis didn't try and Coipel rushed his pencils. And some how Marvel allowed this half-hearted product to hit the shelves. While the other events didn't have spectacular endings they were at least worth reading. As terrible as Siege #4 was, it does put us into the "Heroic Age" which looks to have a bunch of fun titles and stories in for us to read.

[Talavar]

As critical as the reviewer is, he's absolutely right. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the first 3 issues of Siege but that has to be the worst event conclusion I have ever read in my life.

Haven't almost every Bendis-involved big event ended with a thud?  It seems to me, most of them don't make sense, have huge plot holes, don't pan out and/or leave many readers wondering, "WTF?".

Dana

Pretty much.  What are all the big, Bendis-scripted events so far?  Avengers Disassembled (Didn't read), House of M (kinda funky idea, but totally irrelevant except for the last page), Secret Invasion (dragged on way too long), and Siege?  Am I missing any by Bendis?  The guy just isn't good at big action.

[hoss20]

I'm disappointed we didn't see any Tarene either - not in the main book but in the Initiative or Thor. Wasn't Thor fighting Ragnarok in his own book? Tarene didn't show up did she?

   From the preview cover on the last page of last month's Thor, it looks like Thor will FINALLY be taking on Ragnarok this month (Thor comes out the last week of the month). Long overdue in my opinion.

[John Jr.]

As critical as the reviewer is, he's absolutely right. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the first 3 issues of Siege but that has to be the worst event conclusion I have ever read in my life.

Haven't almost every Bendis-involved big event ended with a thud?  It seems to me, most of them don't make sense, have huge plot holes, don't pan out and/or leave many readers wondering, "WTF?".

Dana

Pretty much.  What are all the big, Bendis-scripted events so far?  Avengers Disassembled (Didn't read), House of M (kinda funky idea, but totally irrelevant except for the last page), Secret Invasion (dragged on way too long), and Siege?  Am I missing any by Bendis?  The guy just isn't good at big action.

Siege #4 was just a series of "heroes-punch-villains" panels, with no characterization, or great moments. We heard a lot of hype about Osborn's plans and about the Sentry and then...

Spoiler

Cap punches Osborn, Thor punches The Sentry, end of the game. Remember when heroes would make a plan to stop a cosmic powerful villain? In most of recent crossovers the "plan" is only "we jumped on and punch him!".

[lugaru]

On one hand I'm glad that they did not have to build some crazy device or perform some other deus ex machina action but on the other hand things did resolve a little too neatly given how awesome all other issues leading up to this had been. 3 made it feel like the end of the world, 4 was a little too "superfirends" punch punch and it is over.

[Previsionary]

That could have been adverted if the majority of the latter half of Dark Avengers wasn't dedicated to making Sentry and the Void (who was just black eyed Sentry at the time... so tentacle monster was random to me) into a god pastiche (or angel of death. Whatever). Having Sentry rebuild himself from molecules, explode 500 times, and attempt suicide by throwing himself into the sun made it difficult to write a convincing ending, I think. Couple that with Bendis avoiding giving him an interesting story or power cap, and never actually defining his power, must have made Sentry a difficult boss to fight in an event he somehow became the big bad of (Dark Reign was about Norman, right? Bendis probably should have reworked his ideas a bit more. I also find it amusing that he's the only one that has been altering Bob significantly, and he never had an "out" thought up).

With that said, us readers weren't even given a day to enjoy Sentry being gone. His "funeral" issue took all that away.

Anyway, I'm still wondering how the SHRA was revoked in a single day just because Norman is out of power and Steve is now at the forefront. Osborn didn't have anything to do with that act passing. That was a Tony Stark/Civil War storyline. Why was it reduced to just a ticker? Why wasn't any time dedicated to fighting the SHRA during Dark Reign? It only served as a plot point for Iron Man (for part of an arc) and wasn't a big deal elsewhere. So much story potential just wasted. I eagerly await the day Marvel and DC stop with all the events, focus in on the plots they want to highlight, and give the climax, denouement, and fallout just as much time as they dedicate to the main event.

[Podmark]

Presumably Cap said "You want me in? I want the SHRA out" and the president (notably a different president then when it was passed) agreed. I didn't like it either.

What I would have done is switched the SHRA to a less oppressive system. Something more voluntary but still enforcing a level of responsibility.


So did Fallen leave an out for Sentry's return?

[murs47]

So did Fallen leave an out for Sentry's return?

Spoiler

Kind of, I guess. His crazy robot, Cloc, showed up and told everyone he will be preparing for his master's return.

[Previsionary]

Cloc basically came out and said that Sentry wrote journal entries instructing it of what to do when he was indisposed and that he would return at some undetermined time in a pre-established location Robert owns. So yes, he has an out that is as vague as his powers and history.

[lugaru]

Superhuman registration is a tricky thing, conceptually.

Half the thrill of heroes is that they are putting on masks to anonymously do what they think is right. And yeah, at the same time they are super powerful and should be registered.

I liked it during civil war because there was a conflict, but I dont know if there is any way Cap could have  his own "beningn" registration act, especially after dying to fight it (several year old spoiler!).

Did not dig the Fallen Sun comic, but the CLOC bit was kind of a trip.

Has anyone read Spidey/Wolverine and Astonishing X-Men yet? I have not made it out to the shop but I think they should be out. I'm especially curious about Astonishing.

[GhostMachine]

I thought the way the SHRA should have been dealt with is something along the lines of this:

It backfires. Something bad happens as a result of its passage. For instance, a crooked politician or a supervillain who has infiltrated the government gets access to the database and people start getting killed (think of something along the lines of the Scourge of the Underworld, except this time its really lame heroes and their relatives being killed instead of villains). The government tries to cover it up, but somehow the superhuman community finds out the truth.

This results in a march on Washington (a protest, NOT an attack), with an ultimatum given to the government. They either:

1. Do away with the SHRA completely and wipe out the database; no backup copies.

or

2. Appoint a superhuman representative to Congress (basically making the superhuman community the 51st state) who oversees the SHRA, serves on any committee regarding superhuman related issues and is elected only by the votes of registered superhumans, with the general public not getting to vote.

[Previsionary]

I have Astonishing Spidey/Wolvie, but haven't read it yet. It's by Jason Aaron, which already guarantees it'll be readable, and I have seen GREAT reviews for it on most sites. I wanted to review it 2 weeks ago, but... life happens (yes, it came out before Siege completed).

I have read AXM: Xenogenesis, and luckily, you don't need Ellis's previous issues to follow up on it. It's about babies being born with deadly super powers in an area near Wakanda (the exact name escapes me) and the X-men have to check it out. That's all it's about... quite literally. Most of the book is just character interaction with Wolverine going on about African history. Black Panther (T'challa) also makes an appearance to give Storm the news. It's an average read at best. It also comes with Ellis's script at the end, and it shows you just how much Kaare Andrews deviated from the script. On the topic of art, Kaare's cartoonish style is wonky. He draws the worst Emma I've seen in ages. Her chest is distractingly huge (there's a panel where she's talking to Wolverine, and they're inches away from his face. I don't know how he could see over them or carry on with his conversation), her face is of the "butter" variety, and her age is beginning to show as her body looked quite deformed and saggy. I was disgusted... but at least someone finally talked about her accent, and Scott seems to be a mix of classic Cyclops and current one. I'd give it a 3. More probably could have happened in the issue to push it along, but it is what it is. I have a bit of trouble of recommending it at the $4 price tag, though.

Ellis also did some explaining on why he has 2 Astonishing X-men titles running simultaneously on his site if you care to find out. The PC version anyway.

[Podmark]

2. Appoint a superhuman representative to Congress (basically making the superhuman community the 51st state) who oversees the SHRA, serves on any committee regarding superhuman related issues and is elected only by the votes of registered superhumans, with the general public not getting to vote.

They had that more or less with Iron Man. When Norman took over he was technically in charge but Tony (I think it was Tony) wiped the database before he left.

[Talavar]

I'm glad Prev reminded me: the art on AXM Xenogenesis was terrible - not to my taste at all.