Justice League, assemble as well, or why Warner Bros should die in a fire

[BWPS]

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1686653/justice-league-movie.jhtml
Basically, some info about renewed plans for a terrible Justice League movie.
First of all, three people wrote Green Lantern? Gross, go sell vacuums, you all suck.
Then one of them gets to write Wonder Woman, which can't possibly be good- but I don't care. And the other two are writing The Flash because God hates me. The Flash should be one of the best superhero movies once you put in costume changes and take liberties with his terrible enemy names. But with the GL writers? No chance of getting a good story. I'm sure there are plenty of proven writers who could have delivered something good.
WB's plan is to make 2 more crappy movies and combine them into a huge crappy movie and just make infinity dollars anyway, and it will probably work. But it's depressing that they'd let bad writers make more scripts, especially after seeing Avengers movies prove how fans will appreciate quality. I feel like since you can get ticket sales with crappy reviews and a garbage script if you deliver hot sexy cgi action, they are just saying all they care about is money and don't want to use their resources to make the world a better place like Marvel Studios has. Maybe Superman will be good, but given the fact that the studio didn't care for these others gives me doubt. The worst is that I'll still go see all of these anyway.

[oldmanwinters]

I smell the burning fires of a train wreck somewhere off in the horizon.

[Panther_Gunn]

So, taking BWPS's hyperbole with a grain of salt, I did a little looking (granted, mostly on IMDB), and it looks like the linked article left out a few details.

IMDB doesn't have a listing for Wonder Woman at all.  Same for the Justice League movie, at least not attached to Beall.  This may change soon, if the facts of the Variety story are straight.

There were *four* writers attached to Green Lantern, the fourth being Greg Berlanti, who's also listed as being along for the script-ride of the Flash movie.  Of the three of them on that project, none of them have any real movie story/screenplay experience outside of GL, with the exception of Greg, but I don't know if Wrath of the Titans really inspires confidence.  Most of all of their writing experience has been for TV.

Speaking of TV, Guggenheim and Berlanti are listed as story writers for the pilot of Arrow, due out in Sep, with Guggenheim and Andrew Kreisberg handling the teleplay.  Kreisberg at least inspires confidence, as he's written episodes of JLU, The Clone Wars, Fringe, and Warehouse 13.

What *is* listed for Goldenberg is that he's writing the script for GL2.  He at least has some experience writing movies (Contact, the recent Peter Pan, and Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix).

On the other hand, Beall has only written 5 episodes of the show Castle (I'm not familiar with it), and "edited" 32 of them (including his 5, I'm assuming), as well as the not-quite-yet released Gangster Squad.  Is he really *that* good of a writer to be given responsibility for what should be 3 big-budget movies, when his only other screenplay hasn't even hit the theaters yet?

Overall, I'm not inclined to hold my breath for Flash or Justice League.  Given the issues that the Wonder Woman property has had up til now, I'd like to be optimistic, but I'm having a hard time clinging to that.  But, really, is it like we're going to end up with a batch of movies that make us compare them unfavorably to Superman 4 (or even Returns), Batman & Robin, or Ghostrider 2?  Sadly, I suppose it actually is possible.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Castle is, to be a fair, a very good show with some clever writing, so that's not a bad thing, necessarily.  Still is a pretty thin resume though.

[BWPS]

Castle is, to be a fair, a very good show with some clever writing, so that's not a bad thing, necessarily.  Still is a pretty thin resume though.

Castle, in my opinion, has become the worst written cop show on television. It's a severe waste of a lot of talented acting and likable characters. I went from watching it religiously to writing horrible facebook comments begging them to write better to giving up completely. I didn't know that guy wrote for Castle, that seems like proof the stars are aligning to annoy me in a very personal and specific way.

[oldmanwinters]

Despite my obvious pessimism, I really DO want to see more DC movies, especially some epic Justice League ones.  I just really, REALLY want them to be well done if they make them.

[captmorgan72]

Despite my obvious pessimism, I really DO want to see more DC movies, especially some epic Justice League ones.  I just really, REALLY want them to be well done if they make them.

I think "Man of Steel" is going to one of those well done DC movies.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Castle is, to be a fair, a very good show with some clever writing, so that's not a bad thing, necessarily.  Still is a pretty thin resume though.

Castle, in my opinion, has become the worst written cop show on television. It's a severe waste of a lot of talented acting and likable characters. I went from watching it religiously to writing horrible facebook comments begging them to write better to giving up completely. I didn't know that guy wrote for Castle, that seems like proof the stars are aligning to annoy me in a very personal and specific way.

Castle is my very favorite detective show.   Oh well then.

[Tomato]

Haven't watched it, but I've heard nothing but good things from those who have. I'm just OCD about watching shows from the start, and I haven't had the time.

That said, I have 0 confidence in these choices. They just scream "We're making this on the cheap," which is not the impression you want to send when you're still recovering from the kick to the nuts that was Green Lantern's failure.

[Shogunn2517]

Does anyone other than me think the general public would see this as an Avengers knockoff trying to capture a success it can't possibly begin to capitalize on?

I don't want to say you can't capture lightning in a bottle twice, The Avengers was special.  The cast was right.  The build up was stellar.  The movie itself was unprecedented.  It had the ambitions dreams are made of.  And the actual movie itself was all the ingredients needed.  It was funny.  The characters were sold.  The action was beyond reproach.  It was written and performed better than I think any of us imagined.  It was a hardcore comic book movie that engulfed mainstream audiences and took them by surprise as well as us.

Does anyone really see  Justice League being able to accomplish even half that?  Whether it does or doesn't, if they do this it will ALWAYS and FORVER ETERNALLY linked and compared to The Avengers.  Do they really want to fight against that?

[Shogunn2517]

To be perfectly honest, I don't want to see it.  There's no way they are going to not be compared to The Avengers and if they don't do anywhere near as good, which they won't do, it'll be considered a failure.

I think because they'd have to introduce the characters, almost having to do prequel movies they'd be hard press to garner the interest on a long term basis.  The Avengers, again, was unprecedented.  We bidder our time because we didn't think it was possible until pretty much when the credits on Captain America rolled.

That said, I'd much rather see a "Worlds Finest" or Superman/Batman movie.  They don't have to introduce the characters.  They are two characters arguably bigger and more well know than any Marvel character.  Both of them have a history of well performing films, they're indeed bankable characters.  Not to mention the story lines they can take are endless.  And it doesn't mean the movie HAS to be limited to just those two heroes.  It almost make sense to open up the universe.  That's one thing the Avengers did, but unlike the Avengers which melded 4 franchises into one, it's not even trying to scale itself n that level.

[Tomato]

Unfortunately, WB's biggest problem here is that they are still trying to do things the way they always have... and that method just does not work for the type of movie they need to make here. Marvel built its movies up organically... they put just enough in each film to lead into the next one, but left things open so that the next person in line wouldn't feel boxed in. WB is so focused on making these adaptations films first that they're ignoring the overall narrative that tied the Marvel films together.

Actually, that's the big problem, I think. Everything DC has made has been focused on making it a good film first, and everything else is a far distant second. The Nolan Batman films are now so locked into their own little film world that they have to be rebooted just so Batman can work in a JLA film. Green Lantern got so lost in the magic of CGI and all the aliens that it wasted it's opening film on the two of the worst Green Lantern villains. Superman might be a good film, but unless it builds on GL or starts tying some of these other films together it's going to be tough explaining how all these radically different films exist in the same universe.

[Glitch Girl]

only slightly related but still kinda cool
Non-existant Justice League CG movie concept art

[Tawodi Osdi]

Pixar would probably do a better job than WB.

But, I think the biggest reason that Avengers worked and DC wouldn't is how the characters were originally conceived.  The Marvel universe has for the most part been a singular world that all of the characters had to respond to cohesively.  For instance, magic works the same way in Fantastic Four as it does does in Dr. Strange.  Captain America is the same essential character in his own book that he is in The Avengers.

DC books are basically their own worlds that sometimes come in contact.  The rules for Superman is different than the rules for Batman.  In one book, magic is just a delusion with a plausible explanation.  In another, magic is genuine force to be reckoned with.  Batman in his own title is not the Batman of the Justice League of America.

Growing up, I preferred DC over Marvel because each book was unique and gave you more variety, and I preferred Marvel over DC because of the internal consistencies of their books.  The result is that both DC and Marvel have a lot potential in making successful movies out of single character/concept, Superman, Ironman, Fantastic Four, and Watchmen, worth watching, but Marvel has the advantage when trying to bring diverse characters together, Avengers and Justice League of America.

[Talavar]

Pixar would probably do a better job than WB.

But, I think the biggest reason that Avengers worked and DC wouldn't is how the characters were originally conceived.  The Marvel universe has for the most part been a singular world that all of the characters had to respond to cohesively.  For instance, magic works the same way in Fantastic Four as it does does in Dr. Strange.  Captain America is the same essential character in his own book that he is in The Avengers.

DC books are basically their own worlds that sometimes come in contact.  The rules for Superman is different than the rules for Batman.  In one book, magic is just a delusion with a plausible explanation.  In another, magic is genuine force to be reckoned with.  Batman in his own title is not the Batman of the Justice League of America.

That's something you're going to have to back up with evidence - in what DC comic is magic just a delusion?  Characters may believe that, but that doesn't make them right.  Is there actually a book where magic characters don't (or can't) exist?  Batman has fought magic, Superman has fought magic, Wonder Woman is magic, etc.

My big problem with magic in both DC and Marvel comics are the lack of rules or limits.  What can Dr. Strange (or Dr. Fate) or Zatanna do?  Maybe it's better to ask what can't they do.  Their limits are only those of authorial fiat; in one situation the solution will be 'get Dr. Strange,' while in another one that can be very similar, he'll be unable to help.

[Tomato]

Actually, I think he has a little bit of a point in there... I agree that Batman has dealt with magic too, but we HAVE seen magic dealt with differently in different books (Young Justice even poked fun at it with T.O.Morrow's initial appearance). But that's a minor point regardless... Ever since the start of the Silver Age, Marvel would always cross-polinate their books... Spiderman would have random cameos in other marvel titles, Avengers would fight the X-men, etc. (the theory being that fans would want to know who this other character was, and go pick up his book as well) DC has never really had that... they always established one character's universe at a time, and then would only bring those universes together for either a team book or for a big crossover.

The problem is, that method doesn't work for a movie-going audience... you HAVE to build each of the continuities on top of one another in order to sell them as being from the same universe. Let's be honest, Green Lantern CAN'T exist in the same movie universe as Nolan's Batman, and I kinda doubt it fits in the same world as ANY of the other films.

[Tawodi Osdi]

I admit I don't read a lot of modern comics and haven't read old ones in ages, but I recall unless Batman was specifically teamed up with a magic using hero, like the Demon or the Spectre, Batman's skepticism about magic always proved true.  It was only when working in concert with a magical hero did his skepticism prove false.

[docdelorean88]

Actually, I think he has a little bit of a point in there... I agree that Batman has dealt with magic too, but we HAVE seen magic dealt with differently in different books (Young Justice even poked fun at it with T.O.Morrow's initial appearance). But that's a minor point regardless... Ever since the start of the Silver Age, Marvel would always cross-polinate their books... Spiderman would have random cameos in other marvel titles, Avengers would fight the X-men, etc. (the theory being that fans would want to know who this other character was, and go pick up his book as well) DC has never really had that... they always established one character's universe at a time, and then would only bring those universes together for either a team book or for a big crossover.

The problem is, that method doesn't work for a movie-going audience... you HAVE to build each of the continuities on top of one another in order to sell them as being from the same universe. Let's be honest, Green Lantern CAN'T exist in the same movie universe as Nolan's Batman, and I kinda doubt it fits in the same world as ANY of the other films.

just based off of images from the set, i would say Green lantern COULD exist in the superman universe... though that is yet to be seen so :/

[Tomato]

except that if Superman makes no mention at all about the giant stupid looking yellow monster thing (y'know, "Parallax") then it can't exist in the same universe, because that kind of craziness is bound to come up when a second superhero shows up, ESPECIALLY since the main character is a news person.

[JeyNyce]

What?!!!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/ben-affleck-talks-direct-justice-league-warner-bros-answer-avengers-report-article-1.1131947

[steamteck]

What?!!!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/ben-affleck-talks-direct-justice-league-warner-bros-answer-avengers-report-article-1.1131947

Are they frickin' insane????  This why although I actually prefer the DC characterss Marvel will continue to kick DC's arse in live action. At least we have the brilliant animated stuff which can adapt even a story which was pretty bad in the comic and make it enjoyable.

[Mr. Hamrick]

What?!!!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/ben-affleck-talks-direct-justice-league-warner-bros-answer-avengers-report-article-1.1131947

Are they frickin' insane????  This why although I actually prefer the DC characterss Marvel will continue to kick DC's arse in live action. At least we have the brilliant animated stuff which can adapt even a story which was pretty bad in the comic and make it enjoyable.

Actually had a conversation about this last night.  I don't think Affleck would be a bad choice to DIRECT as along as he is not cast in the film in anything but a minor or supporting role.  People to need to separate their hate of Affleck as an actor (which he really is not all that great) from the fact that he has proven himself to be a competent and pretty good director.

Another story that I have heard is that a Batman reboot to lead into a JLA movie was being aimed for 2014 though I don't that happening before 2015 unless there is more of a script in place (and other factors) than we realize.  That said, the film was said to take place in what is essentially "Batman year 2" and not be an origin story. 

There are so many Debbie Downers here about DC (particularly their movies) on this forum.  Geeze.

[Midnite]

There are so many Debbie Downers here about DC (particularly their movies) on this forum.  Geeze.

This^

[BentonGrey]

There are so many Debbie Downers here about DC (particularly their movies) on this forum.  Geeze.

This^

Umm, given WB's track record, can you blame them?  They don't seem to be able to put anything coherent together between their various properties.  The lack of a central decision making/planning aparatus, a-la Marvel, has really taken a toll on DC's grand movie plans in the last several years, and the movies they have produced haven't exactly filled most fans with great confidence.

[JeyNyce]

You would think that since DC & WB are pretty the same company that they would be able to get their movie right on point, but they can't.  Marvel got back the right for some of their heroes and they did their movie justice with minor changes.

[Midnite]

The Wachowskis in the Running to Direct Justice League?

Eh, as long as they're not writing it.

[Shogunn2517]

The Wachowskis in the Running to Direct Justice League?

Eh, as long as they're not writing it.

Liked!

[Midnite]

Warner Bros. Plans Justice League for 2015

Not sure if its wise to go against Avengers 2. I hope the writing and directing is top notch. 

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Apparently they are planning on going backwards compared to the Marvel movies, start with the team up, then spin off into individual franchises.  The DC superheros probably are well enough known to pull it off, assuming they can get a good script and director, which I honestly have precious little confidence of.

[BentonGrey]

Apparently they are planning on going backwards compared to the Marvel movies, start with the team up, then spin off into individual franchises.  The DC superheros probably are well enough known to pull it off, assuming they can get a good script and director, which I honestly have precious little confidence of.

Haha...yeah, at this point that's tantamount to saying 'provided pigs learn to fly.'