A last minute substitution

[Tomato]

Ok, so, for those somehow not aware, I have this massive Batman figure shelf. Well, in order to keep myself from buying every single thing I set my eyes on, I limited the number of villain characters to 20 of the top villains from Batman's rogues gallery. However, I've recently been rethinking the inclusion of Hush... Yeah, I like the inclusion of the character in Arkham City, and the Hush arc by Loeb was/is one of my favorite Batman stories, but he isn't really that great a character on his own... and he's in an even worse position than Zsasz was in terms of design, because there's only one notable design for the character.

But then, the question becomes, if not Hush, than who? My personal preference in this case is Firefly (lots of variety as far as his outfit is concerned, and he's been a mainstay in most Batman related media) but I thought I'd open the floor to all the Batman fans around here, just to get some additional input, and see where everyone else stands. The list of characters I'm already using is in spoilers, for those who would like to check.

Spoiler

• Joker
• Clayface
• Scarecrow
• Penguin
• Two-Face
• Riddler
• Mad Hatter
• Mr. Freeze
• Poison Ivy
• Man-Bat
• Talia
• Ra's al Ghul
• Killer Croc
• Black Mask
• Ventriloquist
• Victor Zsasz
• Harley Quinn
• Bane
• ?Hush?
• Red Hood

Catwoman is also included, but on the Heroes side.

[BentonGrey]

Signal Man, definitely Signal Man. 

[bat1987]

Seems you have most of them covered. Firefly seems like a good choice and I remember him having some distinctive looks in dif forms of media.

If not, not sure how you'd feel with Deadshot as a Batman villain. Eventhough he did first appear as Batman villain some people treat him that way, others don't. But with him appearing in Gotham Knight animated segment and recently in Arkham games, you can def justify having him on the shelf.

[Deaths Jester]

Calender Man..gotta have him!!!

[Tomato]

Signal Man, definitely Signal Man. 

Seems you have most of them covered. Firefly seems like a good choice and I remember him having some distinctive looks in dif forms of media.

If not, not sure how you'd feel with Deadshot as a Batman villain. Eventhough he did first appear as Batman villain some people treat him that way, others don't. But with him appearing in Gotham Knight animated segment and recently in Arkham games, you can def justify having him on the shelf.

Hrm... Admittedly, Deadshot's probably the grayest in terms of where I personally place him, but ultimately I think my bias comes from him being on JLU, rather than the Batman animated series. I have no issues with him showing up and terrorizing Batman, but I associate him far more with the Suicide Squad and the DCU as a whole.

Calender Man..gotta have him!!!

Actually... Calendar Man is/has been a top contender. Yeah, his classic attire is goofy and non-threatening, but his treatment in Long Halloween and Arkham City makes up for that. Plus, there's a female version of the character in the animated series, which gives some much needed female love to the shelf.

The downside is that, since DCC hasn't opted to make an Arkham Calendar Man figure, I pretty much have to make everything myself... there's not even a semi-official Lego Minifig (and even Zsasz cameos in the portable games).

[Tomato]

So I'm going through wikipedia's list of Batman family adversaries, just to narrow down the playing field a bit. I'm going to list the pros and cons for each character in spoilers. I might get a poll going eventually, but if someone wants to make a case for a particular character beforehand, have at it.

Calendar Man

Spoiler

Pros
-Character has a nice range of appearances across different eras and media, from his goofy silver age outfit to the creepy serial killer look from Arkham City.
-The Animated series version is a woman. I wouldn't mind breaking up the sausage fest a bit more.
Cons
-There is no official Calendar Man figure, in any of his incarnations.
-There is no "canon" Lego minifig from the Lego Batman video games. That's kind of sad when you realize they include VICTOR ZSASZ in the portable versions of both games.

Catman

Spoiler

Pros
-The character himself is amazing. I love what they've done with him in Secret Six, and his costume looks great
Cons
-There isn't a real Catman in DCAU canon, Arkham canon, or even Lego canon.

Deadshot

Spoiler

Pros
-Has existing figures for JLU, DCUC, and the Arkham series.
-Has canon appearances both in the Lego Batman series (specifically the portable version of Lego Batman 2) and in live action media (Arrow)
Cons
-Though he's appeared in different forms of media, his appearance doesn't vary all that much. His DCUC outfit is much the same as his JLU appearance, which is much the same as his Lego minifig. Even the Arkham games, which differ the most from his classic outfit, don't vary too far from his "classic" appearance.
-As I stated above, I don't really consider Deadshot to be a Batman villain as much as I do a DC Universe villain. He's most notable for his appearances in the Suicide Squad. There's more of a pathos in the made up relationship with Diggle in Arrow than I've ever seen him have with Batman himself.

Firefly

Spoiler

Pros
-Has existing figures for JLU, Arkham, and Live action (no, seriously)
-Has a canon appearance in the first Lego game, and has some pretty insane Silver Age costumes.
-His appearances are wildly varied, so it's not four versions of the same thing.
Cons
-Would take up a huge amount of space. I have enough to worry about with the 13" Clayface and Man-Bat figures without tacking on Firefly and his wings.
-Lack of DCUC figure means that's yet another figure I would have to customize.

Hugo Strange

Spoiler

Pros
-Has existing figure for the Arkham series.
-Has canon versions in BTAS, and in the Lego Batman games
Cons
-Almost no variance in terms out appearance. He's the same in almost every appearance.
-Only existing figure is his arkham one. Everything else would need to be made.

Hush

Spoiler

Pros
-Has existing figure for the Arkham series.
-Has a canon Lego version in the Lego Batman games
Cons
-Almost no variance to take advantage of. His defining look has gone virtually unchanged since his initial appearance.
-No version from the DCAU, no Silver age costume to use for DCUC.
-Hasn't really been all that developed outside of a few key stories. Too new.

Lady Shiva

Spoiler

Pros
-Is female.
-Canon in Arkham, Lego, and Live action
Cons
-No version from the DCAU
-No figures have been made, so would have to be all customs
-While there is variety in her various outfits, they all fit a similar red/black motif. Nothing truly notable about most of them.

Killer Moth/Charaxes

Spoiler

Pros
-Has a good range of costumes and appearances
-Existing figure from DCUC line.
-Has a canon appearance in the Lego Batman games, and is present in the Arkham series.
Cons
-No version from the DCAU, unless you count his Teen Titans appearance (which never got a figure). There IS a version from "The Batman," but those figures aren't in the same scale and I've had issues with stability on the ones I've gotten.
-Canonicity of the character design in Arkham Asylum is questionable at best, and no figure was made regardless.

[bat1987]

Hugo Strange

Spoiler

Pros
-Has existing figure for the Arkham series.
-Has canon versions in BTAS, and in the Lego Batman games
Cons
-Almost no variance in terms out appearance. He's the same in almost every appearance.
-Only existing figure is his arkham one. Everything else would need to be made.

Actually there is one more figure of  ol' Hugo that I think is distinctive enough

Spoiler

I actually own the figure (comes with an extra Batman head). He wore the suit in comics at least 2 times I know of, I think it would make him distinctive enough on the shelf.

[BentonGrey]

I'd say, out of your list, the most important is definitely Strange.  He's a much more seminal piece of the Batman mythos than the rest.  He's been there since the very beginning, after all.

[Cyber Burn]

I'll admit, it's been forever and a day since I bought a comic or video game or toy, so I don't really know what all is out there, or even who the current Batman villains are.

That said, when I think of villains for Batman, 3 specifically come to mind. If it was me putting together a "Batman" shelf, these guys would definitely be put on my list. The first is already on your list, and that is Catman. In all honesty, I'm not even sure why I've always connected the two, they just seem to fit each other. The second, which is not on your list, is the CSA's Owlman. Though he is more of a "Justice League" villain than a "Batman" villain, I have always felt that he would make a great villain for Batman as an individual. The third is really out there, I don't even know if he ever actually made it into the comic universe, but the Justice Lords Batman (The Justice Lords period) should have gotten a lot more representation. He represents what Batman "Could" have become, and again, I think would have made a great Batman villain as an individual.

[Tomato]

Yes, but that figure is a DC Direct/Collectibles figure, which doesn't fit with any of the other figures I own in terms of scale or style (same reason I never got the Hush figure). I could perhaps customize something similar with a DCUC figure, but that leads back into the other major issue with the character: I have to customize everything but the Arkham figure (I can buy a custom lego minifig though, to be fair). This is particularly vexing when you consider that Hugo never got a DCAU style figure, and his design pretty much necessitates having sculpting skills I just plain do not have.

Furthermore, there isn't a live action version of the character. That's not really too big a deal *looks at half the shelf as it is* but I could justify both Deadshot's appearance in Arrow and Firefly's TDK figure.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be more than happy to include Hugo to the shelf (he was my first choice for substitution when I made the original list) but Firefly and Deadshot both have him trumped just in terms of how ridiculously difficult it would be to collect him.

I'll admit, it's been forever and a day since I bought a comic or video game or toy, so I don't really know what all is out there, or even who the current Batman villains are.

That said, when I think of villains for Batman, 3 specifically come to mind. If it was me putting together a "Batman" shelf, these guys would definitely be put on my list. The first is already on your list, and that is Catman. In all honesty, I'm not even sure why I've always connected the two, they just seem to fit each other. The second, which is not on your list, is the CSA's Owlman. Though he is more of a "Justice League" villain than a "Batman" villain, I have always felt that he would make a great villain for Batman as an individual. The third is really out there, I don't even know if he ever actually made it into the comic universe, but the Justice Lords Batman (The Justice Lords period) should have gotten a lot more representation. He represents what Batman "Could" have become, and again, I think would have made a great Batman villain as an individual.

I love Catman to death, but he has all of ONE good action figure (DCUC) and he unfortunately hasn't appeared properly in the Arkham games, Lego games, or even the DCAU (there is a character who bears his name, but that is NOT Catman). And frankly, if there's one major nail in the coffin of any Batman villain being added to the list now, it's a lack of Arkham figure... I can make a good DCUC or DCAU custom, but the Arkham series is so far beyond me in terms of detail it's pathetic.

Obviously I agree on Owlman, but I have a separate CSA Shelf already, and one that might well get bigger over the next year or so. Trust me, Owlman is well represented.

Justice Lords Batman... eh. Don't get me wrong, he's cool, but he's only appeared in JL/JLU. I have the same issue with Batman Beyond... I'd LOVE to include a version of Terry on the heroes side, but he doesn't really work with the nature of the shelf.

[bat1987]

Furthermore, there isn't a live action version of the character. That's not really too big a deal *looks at half the shelf as it is* but I could justify both Deadshot's appearance in Arrow and Firefly's TDK figure.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be more than happy to include Hugo to the shelf (he was my first choice for substitution when I made the original list) but Firefly and Deadshot both have him trumped just in terms of how ridiculously difficult it would be to collect him.

Oh for sure. Was just giving you more options. If you focused on DCUC, DCD/Collectibles are def out of scale with those.

Firefly def seems like the obvious choice here. As I mentioned in my earlier post Deadshot could fit in there too the only downside being, as previously said, that he is not always considered a Bat villain.

[Tomato]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm basically set on either Deadshot or Firefly.

I'm still not decided, but frankly... the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning toward Deadshot. Yeah, I do associate him more with the DCU as a whole, but admittedly that's far less of an issue with Deadshot than it is with Solomon Grundy or Deathstroke (who seem to show up rather often as well.) because he is more closely associated with Batman than the others are.

And yeah... I think, utimately, I want to go with Deadshot, purely from the perspective of cost of the figures (Firefly is more expensive both with the Arkham figures and the DCAU ones) and how much space they take on the shelf. I've already had to move the Batman shelf because of how much space Clayface is going to take, so adding Firefly in there would just add to my frustration. Plus, there's the fact that the Deadshot of Arrow is far more "canon" than the rinky-dink Firefly figure from the TDK line. The design isn't that complex either... I shouldn't have any trouble tracking down a GI Joe figure to cobble together for it.

[Podmark]

Hmm given your list and what you're trying to accomplish my choices would be:

1. Hush - I like Hush (conceptually at least). He's got a decent look and motivations and among newer villains he's one that I think has staying power. But being a newer character he poses problems for your shelf.

2. Firefly - Seems like the obvious choice for your shelf. Good representation of designs and figures. He's clearly a Bat villain which is a plus over my next choice.

3. Deadshot - My favorite of the three characters, but the least "Batman" of them. Still he does connect to the Bat verse enough to squeeze him in and there's some good designs/figures to work with.


Firefly seems like the obvious considering what your trying to accomplish. But Deadshot works just as good.