Justice League film confirmed

[BWPS]

Modern DC  needs to make up for how racist  classic DC  was.  It makes zero sense that all superheroes are white. If that means reimagining  existing characters as  being minorities (Nick Fury in the movie universe is an excellent example,  something Sony  should've done in the Spider-Man reboot),  introducing new minority characters (John  Stewart is and always has been a great character),  or bringing previously  minor characters to the forefront (Cyborg  in this movie). It is insane thatall the Avengers  are white, that's not how it would happen in real life. I don't want to see a JLA  movie with all  white people, that would be ridiculous, most people aren't white.

[MJB]

Agreed. Hollywood doesn't see it this way apparently. Just look at the cast for Avengers 2.

[SickAlice]

Eh, same stance here and same for you and that's okay. Like I said I put down what I have. Sorry for blasting off hard both you anyways, I felt bad about it since. This kind of reaction isn't normal for me. Pushing my pain limit and I probably shouldn't be trying to get social when I'm that abrasive. And not to denote your opinions. JL may actually end being weak sauce or worse still mustard. I can't tell the future either. Actually though as long as Guardians Of The Galaxy doesn't somehow turn out a flop I probably don't care about all else. Like I said at the end of the day, personally I'm at least happy just to see it happen and if it happens in style then even better.

[Tomato]

I agree with MJB on the Avengers... at least with Justice League, I can acknowledge the difficulty in finding notable black heroes (which is a problem in and of itself, frankly) but Marvel has a wealth of heroes to pull from, a few of whom we've already seen done well in other films (War Machine, Falcon). I was actually thinking about Panther earlier, since he's basically Marvel's Batman. I don't know why he hasn't been adapted already

[Podmark]

I agree with MJB on the Avengers... at least with Justice League, I can acknowledge the difficulty in finding notable black heroes (which is a problem in and of itself, frankly) but Marvel has a wealth of heroes to pull from, a few of whom we've already seen done well in other films (War Machine, Falcon). I was actually thinking about Panther earlier, since he's basically Marvel's Batman. I don't know why he hasn't been adapted already

Well Rhodey is reportedly appearing in Age of Ultron in some capacity. I wouldn't be surprised if Falcon appears in Avengers 3, and there's lots of rumours about a Black Panther film for the Phase 3 films. So baby steps at least.

[BentonGrey]

Falcon was one of the best things about Cap 2, so Marvel is moving in the right direction, for sure.  You know, it's just that most of the classic, iconic heroes were created in a time where the common conception of America was decidedly single-shade.  Of course when they start bringing characters to the big screen, it only makes sense that those characters will reflect the era that created them. 

Pod, I'll be glad to see Rhodey in Av2.  That would be cool.

Yeah, we definitely need a Black Panther movie.  That could and would be awesome.  We're quickly going to reach saturation level on the Avengers line-up in movie terms, though.

And you can't say that these films are only bad for FANS, because that's blatantly not true. I watched the first Transformers movie as a complete and total outsider to the fandom, and after watching it? I wanted nothing to do with them. I hate the look of the Bay Transformers, I hate the story of the Bay Transformers, and I have zero interest in spending money on anything related to that series. It's sad, because I kinda want to know more about the series (just as a toy collector) but I'm so afraid of having to deal with the movies again that I end up doing little more than dipping my toe in before I manage to find something else to occupy me.

'Mato, if you have some interest in seeing some actually good Transformers stories, try the excellent Dreamwave Transformers: Generation 1 series.  The first arc is a bit uneven, but it becomes quite great as it goes on.

[Starman]

Umm... again, YOU don't like Cyborg, so you're belittling the character in order to make your point, which is no better than what you're trying to get on ME for doing with John Stewart. You're ignoring 25 years of character growth to narrowly define him as "just a dude with robot parts" and that is NO BETTER than me calling John Stewart "the black Green Lantern"

My problem with the John Stewart thing is that I'm juuust old enough to remember fans complaining about it not being Hal/Kyle in the Green Lantern slot. For the first few years, everything John did as a character was compared to his white counterparts. John Stewart wasn't so much a character in his own right, as he was a replacement for what some fans wanted to see (or worse, that he was just a cheap appeasement character for black fans)... Dini and co. eventually broke through that and established him as his own character, but for awhile, that is ALL fans were concerned with. And now, only a few years after Hal Jordan was in a live action film, and has had his face plastered all over the comics? It would be FAR WORSE.

THAT is what I'm talking about when I say I'd rather have a character with his own identity that happens to be black, rather than the black version of another hero. I don't want to see a good character torn apart because he wasn't the boring white-bread model.

Tomato, there is big difference between me saying I find a character's schtick boring and you saying a character is just an example of racial tokenism. If you had described John Stewart as "some guy with a magic ring", that would have been no better than me calling Cyborg "just a dude with robot parts".

Now you are saying:

I don't want to see a good character torn apart because he wasn't the boring white-bread model

... when only a day ago you said ...

I'm so sick of DC trying to cram their token minority into the Green Lantern slot. They've done it four times now (Irish Guy Gardner, Black John Stewart, Mexican Kyle Rayner, Arab Simon Baz) and even though most of those characters turned out to be amazing (though some took longer than others), it doesn't stop it from being an obvious pattern, and one DC needs to move away from.

Those are two very different statements ... although I'm curious as to what the obvious pattern is and why DC needs to move away from it?

[Tomato]

Starman, I'm not going to continue this. You're focusing in on only the statements you want to read to make your point, and it's making what should be an intelligent debate on the ethics of DC turn into a personal attack. Believe it or not, I am capable of liking a character AND seeing the reality that DC abuses the hell out of him as one of their token black characters (of which there are embarrassingly few). I'm being dismissive of DC's tokenism, not of the character himself.

[BentonGrey]

Eh, same stance here and same for you and that's okay. Like I said I put down what I have. Sorry for blasting off hard both you anyways, I felt bad about it since. This kind of reaction isn't normal for me. Pushing my pain limit and I probably shouldn't be trying to get social when I'm that abrasive. And not to denote your opinions. JL may actually end being weak sauce or worse still mustard. I can't tell the future either. Actually though as long as Guardians Of The Galaxy doesn't somehow turn out a flop I probably don't care about all else. Like I said at the end of the day, personally I'm at least happy just to see it happen and if it happens in style then even better.

SA, I didn't think you were 'blasting off hard,' so no worries. 

Like I said, my point wasn't that JLA is or isn't going to be good or bad, but that it isn't irrelevant if these movies are good, bad, or flawed and that you can make certain relatively objective judgments of stories in general and films specifically.

Yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy is probably the diciest Marvel project yet, in terms of its marketability, at least to my mind.  Yet, if Thor can hold up a film franchise, it seems entirely possible, however unbelievable to those of us who remember when Schumacher was making superhero films, that GoG can succeed.  I certainly hope so!

[Starman]

Tomato, they are statements you made. I didn't have to focus very hard to point out how contradictory those statements have become in your efforts to dig yourself out of your hole.

You said DC needs to stop cramming "their token minority into the Green Lantern slot" ... now you are backsliding and saying "DC abuses the hell out of him as one of their token black characters (of which there are embarrassingly few)". Is it too many or too few "token" characters now?

By using the word "token", you are saying that John Stewart, a character created 43-years ago that has had his own standalone series, is only used by DC Comics for the sake of having a minority - an African American - in the mix. Kyle Rayner, who was the Green Lantern for 10 years, is only there because they needed a half Mexican. Simon Baz, a Lebanese-American character selected to become a Green Lantern because he has overcome great cultural fear in America post 9/11, is just an Arab. That is your own opinion, not "DC's tokenism". A lot of people would simply call it diversity, and say that John Stewart, Kyle Rayner, et al are "relevant" characters, often tackling topical issues and that we don't really need more "token" characters in comics.

Anyway, I'll let this discussion go so this topic can get back on track.

Btw, people seeking an "intelligent debate" don't begin their replies with a passive aggressive "Umm..." That is school yard stuff.

[steamteck]

Well, I adored MOS, so I'm stoked big time. That being said, I'd rather see John Stewart than any of the other lanterns myself. it also seems idiotic to not use an interesting established character that could help your diversity issue. I like Cyborg but he'll never be a leaguer to me. I'd much rather see Martian Manhunter  myself but I can deal with Cyborg instead. he's a interesting character also.

Of course , I'm such a Timmverse fan , I'd rather see their lineup but I know that's not going to happen.

[steamteck]

John Stewart was created 43 years ago? Boy do I feel old.

[BentonGrey]

Well, if I can't get Hal, I'd certainly get rather John than anyone else as GL.

Yeah Steam, I feel the same way about Cyborg.

[Podmark]

There's been rumors that John Stewart will be appearing in BvS and Justice League. Dwayne Johnson and Denzel Washington were both mentioned but nothing even remotely solid yet. A good bet Stewart will be in it.

I've always found it interesting how DC (Geoff Johns) are really pushing Cyborg as a JL member. I get the diversity angle, but it didn't have to be Cyborg, there are other options. "Why'd you pick him?" is what I always ask myself. He does work well I think. He reminds me of Oracle in the current JL book and that's always useful for a team.

One thing I'm wondering is whether WB will actually pick up Stephen Amell to be Green Arrow. He's said a couple of times that he wants to do it and it would really be a boost to their television franchises. Personally I'm all for it, but I'd probably keep his role small.

[John Jr.]

New rumor, this time from Kevin "Silent Bob" Smith:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/05/27/kevin-smith-says-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-is-the-beginning-of-one-massive-justice-league-story-spanning-five-or-six-movies/

Everyone rumor I read is betting "Bats vs Supes" is a Justice League prequel more than a Man of Steel sequel....

[Talavar]

Personally, I'm hoping for John Stewart as GL.  I've just never been a fan of Hal.

[HarryTrotter]

Totally 

[TAP43]

Saw this and had to share it, I thought it was funny

[BentonGrey]

Haha, neat Tap!

[Tomato]

Heh, I just saw that the other day... Apparently it's actually a response to a tweet Gail Simone made about how the new costume looked like Catman.

[kkhohoho]

Just heard about this, and I have to say, I'm not exactly thrilled, for a couple of reasons. 1.I did not like MoS. 2.The Justice League usually has at least seven members, which is even more than Avengers had, and yet, Avengers had time to previously develop most of it's characters by giving them multiple movies. Justice League has MOS, the upcoming Batman/Superman film, and that's it. I get the feeling that most Leaguers won't be developed all that well, and that in any case, Superman and Batman will likely dominate the movie. At this point, I just think it'll wind up being a film that still has great technical value, but at the same time. isn't going to have much in terms of story or character, and if MOS is any indication, then the JL film might also have a host of other problems that I won't really get into here.

[HarryTrotter]

^Do we need 5 obligatory movies like Avengers did?I think 2 hours is enough for a good movie even if it has 7 main charachters.

[spydermann93]

^Do we need 5 obligatory movies like Avengers did?I think 2 hours is enough for a good movie even if it has 7 main charachters.

By definition of "obligatory", we do need any "obligatory movie"

[JeyNyce]

I'm thinking that they may do the opposite of what Marvel did, just to see how their characters pans out.  BvS is a prequel to the JL movie and depending on how the movie turns, they will make single hero movies.  For example in the JL movie you have Cyborg and Aquaman and they turn out to be 2 of the popular characters in the movie.  WB will say: "people like them and want to see more of them, let make a movie with them in it"  It's a risk, and my opinion, but I think that is what they are going to do.   

[HarryTrotter]

^That makes more sense then Marvels reverse order.

[Tomato]

Kind of, but it's more a difference of style, really. And frankly, their whole project banks on Justice League being a good enough film that fans want to see more... and given the track record of David Goyer (who recently upset fans of She-Hulk and Martian Manhunter in one disgusting interview where he completely missed the point of both characters) and Zack Snyder (who lacks Nolan's finesse when if comes to film) that's still up in the air right now. I honestly do hope the movies are good enough to warrant introducing more solo films down the line, but there is legitimate concern that these films will bomb and that will never happen. It is a gamble, one which they might not succeed with.

Conversely, if Marvel has a "meh" film, it doesn't really impact them very much. You might not care for Iron Man 2 or Incredible Hulk (just using them as examples), but if you enjoyed Captain America or Thor you'll go see Avengers anyway. Sure, they took the long road, but given how many billions of dollars they've made, that's clearly a better strategy than trying to rush franchises out of other properties (ASM2, anyone?)

[HarryTrotter]

^Thor was made so non-comic readers wouldnt ask WHO IS HE while watching Avengers IMO.It just server to introduce Thor and Loki.
Thats just an example.
Nolan making JL ?Guy made Superman darker,come on.
But with Snyder we risk 300 style action scenes.

[Tomato]

Nolan has nothing to do with Batman vs Superman OR Justice League. He's very obviously removed his name for anything beyond Man of Steel. From here on out, it's JUST Zack Snyder and David Goyer, and that is a serious source of concern.

[HarryTrotter]

^My thoughts exactly.
As somebody who has grown up watching Justice League I will be seriously dissapointed if they mess this up.

[spydermann93]

As somebody who has grown up watching Justice League I will be seriously dissapointed if they mess this up.

You and just about anybody else who likes DC, myself included

Though, I'm not expecting too much from the movie.