Costume Rating 6: All New X-Men

[Tomato]

Okay, obviously a few of you are crazy.  Aquaman's classic costume is pure, distilled awesomeness.

Seriously, though, I am very surprised at some of the criticisms leveled against the classic orange and green, especially Pod's.  Haha, it strikes me as very odd that anyone would call Aquaman's costume BORING!  Most criticisms of his duds that I've heard usually fall on the other end of the spectrum.  I don't know too many folks who run around in orange chain/scalemail, nor green tights with fins.  It's pretty unique, in my opinion, which leads me to my rating.

Aquaman - 4.5:
This is one of the most iconic costumes in comics, along with most of the JLA.  These costumes are aesthetically perfect, and they are also just about utterly unique.  The only things that come close to most of them are those looks which were, in fact, copied FROM the League's own styles.  Aquaman's classic orange and green is bold, it's striking, and it is unique, even among the stand-outs of the League.  I don't think it's as perfect as Batman, Superman, and Flash, who have really flawless costumes, but it's not far off.  Aquaman doesn't have a cape, he's wearing chainmail, and he's got fins.  Also, he's got blonde hair, among a predominance of black or brown headed heroes, which helps add to the singular nature of his appearance.  I agree that the more modern versions of this costume manage to streamline it a bit, mostly just by eliminating the trunks, which aren't aesthetically necessary with Aquaman's green-on-green colorscheme, as opposed to Batman or Superman.  There are also some little flourishes that the modern costume has which are nice, but despite that, this classic costume is excellent and stands the test of time.  I do agree with C in one thing, though.  The yellow gloves always looked awful.

Yeah, I'm with Benton. You people are obviously crazy, I don't see how Pod can see that as just something someone would wear. Who puts on orange chain mail in the morning?

Modern Cyclops - 1:
It's not very Cyclops-y, and the mask makes zero sense, really.  Is he a literal cyclops now, with one eye in the middle of his forehead?  If not...well, like I said, the mask makes no sense.  It looks like a moderately interesting design for a super-villain, which is, I guess, what Cyclops is these days?  I don't know what's going on in modern Marvel, nor do I much care to find out.  It's boring other than the mask, and the mask is stupid.

I understand context plays a big part in how we feel about these things, so there may be story elements that explain the departures in the latter two costumes, but for me, there is only the thing itself.

*shrug* I can understand where you're coming from, but I've actually just started reading X-men again after years of being disgusted with it (everything from M-day up to AvsX frustrated the heck out of me) and I will say... the recent X-men books have been REALLY good. The flagship book, All New X-men, is literally about the original 5 X-men and their reaction to the craziness of modern books. I think you'd get a kick out of it, tbh. Even the transformation of Cyclops from hero to "villain" has been handled very well, specifically in a 5 issue AvsX followup called "AvsX: Consequences"

[Podmark]

I understand context plays a big part in how we feel about these things, so there may be story elements that explain the departures in the latter two costumes, but for me, there is only the thing itself.

I think context in rating a costume is a tricky thing.

On one hand I think a costume rating works best with zero context. Like if you took a person who knew nothing but the basics of a character (Aquaman, aquatic superhero with strength) and showed them a series of costumes one after another and asked them to rate them, I think that would give you a pretty pure response on how they feel about each costume.

But on the other hand context can really sell a costume (or even not sell a costume). Take Benton's comments about Aquaman as a unique aesthetic among the league. If you don't think about that aspect then you're only rating on his own or against all superheroes generally. And sure it's still a unique colour, but then it's just one in a sea of thousands of costumes. When it's one of seven in properly contrasting colours so it can really stand out. And there are numerous characters who've gone through a specific story stretch where a new look is very appropriate for them and that should be taken into account.

Ultimately with this thread I'm just asking how you feel right now. How you come to that rating is up to you.

Yeah, I'm with Benton. You people are obviously crazy, I don't see how Pod can see that as just something someone would wear. Who puts on orange chain mail in the morning?

With the costume looks like clothes thing, it's not the specific elements, it's just the general element. Usually when a costume has a strong division at the waist creating a shirt/pants break, and the costume is generally simple looking it makes me think of clothes and that just seems odd on a spandex wearing hero to me. I'm sure there's some exceptions that I'm okay with but guys like Aquaman, Jay Garrick, Doc Samson, their costumes are ones I'm usually not big on.

And while I'll agree that the specific colours Aquaman wears are pretty unique, I just don't feel he's doing anything interesting with those colours.

I will admit that rating Aquaman was a bit hard because when I see a picture by Ivan Reis he looks magnificent, but everyone looks excellent by Reis, and lots of artists can draw a costume and make that piece of art look great. I try to rate the design generally.

Even the transformation of Cyclops from hero to "villain" has been handled very well, specifically in a 5 issue AvsX followup called "AvsX: Consequences"

This is a conversation for another thread but I'm really not ready to call Cyclops a villain yet. Maybe a "villain" but he still acts like a guy who's trying to help people, and I'm not sure where he's going with his revolution rhetoric yet. And I still hold the corruption of power and the Dark Phoenix responsible for most of his actions in AvX. To be honest he feels like a character who is "in progress" with his true direction still being written.

[Tomato]

He's calling for mutants to rise up against their human dictators and is training new mutants, mainly kids, to fight a war that hasn't even really started yet. It might be a bit more complex than that (so far the places he's attacked have kinda deserved it) but I would put Cyclops in the villain column as much as I would Magneto or White Queen back when their motivations were just as gray. I'm not saying I don't sympathize with his point of view, but the X-men are supposed to fight AGAINST bigotry. That is the core moral message of the X-men, and Cyclops is clearly going against that by attacking ONLY humans.

[Courtnall6]

My biggest issue with Scott's new look is that it's missing the coolest part of his old looks. The visor. It's just not Cyclops without. Also the red lines on the body running against the lines of the X on his head is just very odd to me.

Here's a quick and dirty redesign of what I would fix.

Now keeping the X visor...I angled all the lines to echo that pattern. I removed some redundant lines as well. Unnecessary real world tack-ons like the pouch belt, wrist doodad, and seams are gone. Also, full black base with zero highlights...like Havoc's classic costume. I always loved that effect. I find this a much sleeker and more importantly easier to draw "evil" Cyclops.

[Podmark]

Looks pretty good C6.

[Podmark]

Round 5 featuring classic Hawkeye and New 52 Wonder Woman.

Classic Hawkeye:


Modern Wonder Woman:

[Podmark]

Hawkeye Classic - 3
I've always been two minds of Hawkeye. On one hand he always looks fun, but on the other hand what is his costume? Why purple? Why a loincloth? Why the pointed mask? It's always been a costume that I look at and go "huh?". I think it's also that it's got a medieval vibe, and I've never been big on anachronistic costumes. That said the look does work for his swashbuckling ways. So ultimately it's okay, but hardly my favorite.

Wonder Woman - 2
This new costume is pretty close to her classic costume in the basic design, and I've never been big on that costume. Not sure exactly why. Maybe it looks like an incomplete outfit with the open arms and legs. Maybe too many colours on too little surface. Maybe it's that anachronistic thing I mentioned above. Not really certain, but I'm not really a Wonder Woman fan anyway.
As for this costume specifically Jim Lee drew it differently at the beginning of JLA but I think DC has settled into the design I've shown. I think I might like this design best of all the Wonder Woman costume variations I've seen. The silver looks much nicer than the gold, and as long as you don't have Jim Lee over doing the line work the rest is okay.

[Tomato]

Hawkeye - 3
I think Hawkeye's costume makes a bit more sense when you look at his background (former carnival worker) but I still consider his classic design either a 3 or 4 depending on which variation an artist is using. I think this version of the design in particular is a bit weak, as it's a bit too busy in places. If I had to pick a favorite look, it'd be the costume he wears in EMH.

Wonder Woman - 3
I agree with pod on this one... this design is ok, and I think I'm happier with it overall then with the original WW costume (though I agree that it looks better when the artist underplays the excessive linework) but I'm disappointed that DC decided last minute to remove her pants. That was the one thing I actually liked about Lee's pre-N52 design, and it looked great in the initial solicitations.

[Courtnall6]

Hawkeye Classic - 5

Ah...Hawkeye as he should be! Actually this is my 2nd favorite look for him. His costume changed slightly during an old 4 part minis-series that I really liked. Basically the same as this but his arms are covered and the blue is much darker. He also wore it during the launch of the West Coast Avengers. Sadly Marvel has completely ruined his look over the years. His current design is his worst yet. So boring.

Wonder Woman - 3

Too close to to her original that making the change was pretty much pointless. Of course it's filled with needless Nu52 add-ons like the choker, the arm band, and the busy line work on her bustier. I really don't like the boots matching her trunks either. It just looks wrong compared to her classic look.

[bat1987]

Hawkeye - 3

Tbh there is nothing really wrong with this costume. Its just not my thing I guess. I can see what they were going with but still not a huge fan. I prefer the version C6 mentioned.

Wonder Woman - 3

I'm not a huge fan of her original outfit either, it would get the same grade, because there are just a few differences between the two. They should have kept the pants methinks.

[Cyber Burn]

Hawkeye: 4

While not the best costume ever designed, I have always had a soft spot for it. But then again, Hawkeye has always been one of my favorite Marvel characters, so I may be a bit biased.

Hawkeye Classic - 5

Ah...Hawkeye as he should be! Actually this is my 2nd favorite look for him. His costume changed slightly during an old 4 part minis-series that I really liked. Basically the same as this but his arms are covered and the blue is much darker. He also wore it during the launch of the West Coast Avengers. Sadly Marvel has completely ruined his look over the years. His current design is his worst yet. So boring.

If Marvel has screwed Hawkeye up, then I am very glad that I don't buy comics anymore.

Wonder Woman: 2

And I think that is being very generous. While I don't really mind the choker, the over use of all the Nu52 lines does really kill the rest of the costume.

[Podmark]

His current design is his worst yet.

I was just rereading this, you do remember his terrible 90s costumes right? Or the one he wore after he stopped being Goliah? Ol' Clint has had a few stinkers for sure.

[Tomato]

the one he's wearing in the comics is basically his movie one. I'd give that a 2(it works in the movies because he's a shield agent, not a carnival worker who has spent most of his time wearing a loud purple outfit), but I agree with Pod... worst is an overstatement.

[Courtnall6]

but I agree with Pod... worst is an overstatement.

Dragging comicbook Hawkeye down to the movie's S.H.I.E.L.D Agent Bow Man level...that's why it's the worst one yet.

[Tomato]

C6, your whole argument here just reeks of Modern comics hate... Despite Cyclops and Hawkeye's costumes having opposite problems, both are instantly the worst thing ever because they're new and different from what you know. You are seriously making the argument that, because you don't like how Hawkeye was portrayed in the movie, it is instantly the worst costume ever, of all time. Yes, it is a boring, useless costume that I'm sure will go away when the movie hype winds down (Anyone remember when Mystique and Toad got changed to look like their movie counterparts? Didn't think so) but its issues are that it's just a touch too simple, and doesn't really fit the character. I'd put it at a 1.5/2, but certainly not the worst thing EVAR.

By comparison, here are some of the costumes he has worn (and, unlike the writer of the article, I Include the Ultimates costume/s... they're stupid, un-hawkeye, and are ridiculously over designed. THEY might well be the worst Hawkeye designs, not this boring ensemble.

[Helix]

To be fair, a lot of us have a special place in our hearts for the Marvel characters before they got the corporate makeover. I remember the horror of the first armored and bearded Thor, the redesign of Captain America's costume the ended up spawning USAgent (that costume actually grew on me later...after the shock wore off), the Silver Centurion Iron Man armor (still hate it), and the symbiote Spider Man (not a bad costume, just not right for Spidey IMO). Change occurred slower before that time. Our heroes were immediately recognizable and didn't change costume every time a new artist took over a title. So, as corny as a blue and purple costume may look now, it reminds some of us of a simpler time. I agree with C6...the WCA Hawkeye costume was the best one. The costume in question, however, score: 2

As for Wonder Woman: I like the basic elements of the New52 costume, just not all of the unnecessary line work. Score: 4

[Podmark]

It's been a bit since the last costume rating. Sorry about that, never seemed to sit down and prepare one. I'd like to do them more regularly in 2014.

Today I'm going to break up the format a bit for an all Marvel edition. In the ongoing comic All-New X-Men by Brian Bendis the original five X-Men (Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Beast, Angel, and Iceman) travelled from the past when they were still teens to the present and are now dealing with troubles of modern Marvel. Recently the group got new costumes (which are absolutely on my skinning list) and I'd like to rate them.

Original X-Men Costumes


Current All-New X-Men costumes


BONUS: X-Men First Class costumes

[Podmark]

My ratings...

Original - 4
This was tricky because they're costumes that really seem to depend on the artist. The original X-Men costumes with Jack Kirby they look really baggy and goofy and I'm not a fan, but other artists make them look pretty good without really changing the design at all. So I'm going with "Like them" or 4.

All New - 3
I was waiting for the new costumes to debut, they were first supposed to appear much earlier in All-New X-Men but they pushed them back. I really want to like them but...I don't. They look more like fancy space outfits than superhero outfits with random differences between each person. I don't hate them and I could see myself really growing to like them over time so for for now they get a "Meh" or 3. Ask me again a year from now, especially after more artists have drawn them, and they might be a 2 or a 4.

First Class - 4
I like these. Nothing special but a nice update on the classic looks.
First Class was a comic from about five or so years ago that was jammed into existing continuity. Kinda like Untold Tales.
Also I wanted a better picture but it was tough finding a good group shot to match the other costumes. As always I encourage you to look up more images and not base it just on the picture I chose.

[Tomato]

Original- 4. I agree with Pod on this, the kirby ones were kinda bulky, but it doesn't take much to clean them up and make them look good again in All new X-men.

New-2. I'm not a fan. These things are goofy, over designed, and the color coding to each X-man is tacky. I'd have preferred the Graduation uniforms or something, honestly.

First Class-1. I hate these costumes... First class is supposed to take place during the Kirby years, it seems like such an unnecessary change, especially since all new X-men proved the original uniforms can look just fine in a modern book.

[ShortFuse]

Original-4
I like these a lot, but I am always a sucker for the classics. I agree that it did depend on the artist of how cool they looked but even the "baggy" Kirby costumes were appropriate for the times. Classic "team" look.

New-2
Don't completely hate them but I don't like them either. They don't look like the X- Men to me. The color coding is silly. Reminds me of Voltron characters, or something.

First Class-4
Nice update to the original. Not much different, so I gave it the same rating.

[Glitch Girl]

First a short rant...

What the [bleep] is up with these floating belt buckles????  This "Let's slap an insignia in the middle of the abdomen AND DON'T ATTACH IT TO ANYTHING" esthetic drives me bonkers.  It's just dumb.  These especially look like some kind of valve so you can inflate them.

Original - 4
Simple but works very well.  Acts as both an identity-hider (which I believe was the original intention) and unifies the team nicely.  Yellow/Bluish-Black are nice contrast and overall nice line.  Trunks on both men and women could use a touch more tailoring just for visual line purposes, but overall, a very successful design.

New - 3.5
I actually like these.  The color-coding doesn't bother me (though I'd switch Cyclops and Angel).  Visual line is nice and while detailed, I don't think it's overly so.  However, I had to dock points for the aforementioned floating belt buckle (which could be fixed by using an ACTUAL BELT).  Less "uniform" than the one above, but still obviously a team.

First Class- 1.5
What is up with the notch in the pectoral region of the yellow band?  If this were 3D, I'd think it was a mapping error due to polygonal distortion.  The angular shoulder overlap looks like it could easily be a pain to draw consistently and would probably work much better visually if rounded instead.   The floating belt buckle is now an insignia that just looks slapped on there like some kind of afterthought ("Oh with the yellow, people are going to think we're the Y-Men, let's put an X on there somewhere!").  Overall, it's not enough of an update of the classic design to make a difference IMO.  Jean's uniform is also less "uniform" than the rest of the uniforms and that just feels odd to me since there are virtually no variations among the male characters.   (Sidenote: is that supposed to be Beast in the middle?  Where did all his bulk go?)   Overall, feels very half-assed.

Addendum: Ah Bobby, never change.   

[Tomato]

In the (sort of) defense of the belt thing... in the cartoons and most comics, those insignia act as communication devices... so they serve a purpose, but I agree that there's no reason for there to not be belts.

The ones on the first class ones though? no. It's just stupid.

[Podmark]

I could probably track down an image but the First Class costumes originally had the X logo on the chest. I would imagine they moved it down to belt to echo the original looks.

[Helix]

Dang it, Glitch Girl! The "floating buckles" didn't bother me until you made a big deal out of them. Now they just look idiotic to me. 

[Glitch Girl]

@Helix

One of us!  One of us! 

[Helix]

Resistance is futile. Sadly, now I'm trying to figure it all out, though. Tomato pointed out that the disks have been used as communication devices in the past; putting a communication device halfway between your navel and your nether regions, however, makes no sense ...unless you're crazy bendy. Perhaps there is some kind of internal/built-in beltish type of thing. I don't know. I just know it bugs me.

[bat1987]

I really like this thread, nice to see it going again.

Original Xmen - 4

As long as they are not drawn baggy these can look really cool.

New - 2.5

I really don't like them. Floating belt buckle is silly (for some reason they remind me of old "Action Man" figures)

First class - 1

This is horrible. I hate the belt buckle on the all new suits but this takes to a whole new level. They were going for a sleeker version of the originals apparently but they did a lousy job with it.

[Cyber Burn]

I've been meaning to post here for a while, but I kept forgetting.

Original- 5: I have always liked these, even the baggy versions, they're just classic, but the cleaned up style is definitely an improvement.

New-2: I actually don't mind the actual design, even the floating buckles, but this just doesn't seem like the X-Men to me. I think that the costumes would work for newer/original characters.

First Class-3: I don't love the costumes, but I don't hate them either. Again, I think that these costumes would work for a different set of characters, but they don't work for the original group.

[BentonGrey]

So, I missed one.  Whoops!  I rather thought that I had posted on both of these, but unless the board ate my posts, I guess I just imagined it.  Anyway, allow me to catch up.

Classic Hawkeye: 4
I really like Hawkeye's classic look.  It's really unique, really fitting for his personality, and it really fits the eclectic nature of the Avengers.  I do rather like it when it's drawn a bit differently, though, as well as the look C6 described:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/134088/2683436-hawkeye_marvel_comics_01.jpg
So, it's not perfect, and I do actually prefer some of the later tweaks to it.  Still, this is a classic costume does a great job of expressing the character's central concepts.

New 52 Wonder Woman: 2
My problem with this costume doesn't have much to do with this version in particular, but with the basic concept of WW's usual costume aesthetics.  I think this might be a slight improvement over the classic version, as I rather like the more armored look to he bodice, and while you can't deny that the art in that image in particular is quite nice, I don't care for the bare-legged look.  As I've been saying for years, I much MUCH prefer an armored version that has elements that nod to her Hellenic origins (pretty much precisely the opposite of Pod, I suppose).  This makes a lot more sense, aesthetically and narratively, to me:
http://aintnohothouseflower.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/wonder_woman_new_frontier_.jpg
The armored skirt and armored bodice both feel like something that an ancient utopian society might create.  That's always been my biggest problem with Wonder Woman.  Her costume just doesn't make sense for her origins.  The costume itself is fine, but it just didn't fit who she was supposed to be.


Original X-Men: 4
These costumes are pretty solid, and they fit who and what these kids were in the beginning, but there are little things that the newer version improved (Jean's mask, for one).

Current X-Men: 1
What is this, manga?  "Teenage Mutant Happy Danger Fun Team, GO!"  Seriously, these guys remind me of the Power Rangers, or more accurately, of Atomic Robo's Power Ranger's pastiche:
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss242/explanoite/teamfive.jpg
They aren't TERRIBLE on their own merits, but they are terrible for the X-Men.  It would fit a Buck Rogers-esq sci-fi setting better.

X-Men First Class: 4
This is mostly a nice update, just smoothing out the rough bits, streamlining things, but keeping very close to the original aesthetic.  The floating belt buckles are a stupid problem, though.  While I don't love these the way I love the classic and iconic costumes of, say, the JLA, these are pretty nice overall.  At least this gives Jean a better mask.

[daglob]

Like Benton, I missed this one.

I like Hawkeye's original costume, but, then again, I grew up with it. The same can be said of Wonder Woman's and The X-Men's original costumes.

I do want to point out that Aquaman's shirt isn't really orange: it's gold.