Grenadier: Non-request

[Helix]

Gren - Since you have made it clear that you are not taking requests, I propose instead the following hypothetical question: Wouldn't it be cool if you did a Moon Knight mesh? I mean, the poor dude doesn't have a dedicated mesh that includes him wielding the staff or throwing crescents.

Anyway, thank you so much for coming back to the community. Your new meshes are mind-blowing! I look forward to anything and everything you create, my friend.

[grenadier]

No, he's a boring character.  Marvel's version of a bruce wayne knock off. Boring writing, so so art work, not a well thought of character.  A guy wearing a white costume that a sniper can pick off a mile away in the dark gives me a chuckle.

[Xenolith]

I'm going to disagree a little bit.     I loved Moon Knight when he started off as a "werewolf fighter."  Then, yes, he became Marvel's Batman and I lost interest in him.

[Tomato]

Gren - Since you have made it clear that you are not taking requests, I propose instead the following hypothetical question: Wouldn't it be cool if you did a Moon Knight mesh? I mean, the poor dude doesn't have a dedicated mesh that includes him wielding the staff or throwing crescents.

Anyway, thank you so much for coming back to the community. Your new meshes are mind-blowing! I look forward to anything and everything you create, my friend.

... OK, I'm going to break away from type here a bit guys. Normally I would rant and rave and generally flame the eff out of this guy, but really, what's the point? This isn't even attempting to be subtle. "You don't take requests, so I'm going to request while saying I'm not requesting! That'll work!" I mean, this post just shot past "silly," sprinted beyond "dumb", long-jumped over "prem" and went straight to "parody of itself."

Sir, I applaud you. You just made the start of my day better.

[BentonGrey]

Haha........yeeeaaaah.....come on.  Cudos to Gren for answering with a laugh instead of a yell.

[GogglesPizanno]

Can I just jump on and say that I thought Moon Knight was always more of a Shadow knockoff (at least earlier on) than Batman....
And i have a strange love of the guy, even though all the complaints and criticisms about the character are valid.

[Scorpion13mk2]

Yeah, I really cant work up much interest for ole Moonknight. All the little revamps they do to the character just further my opinion that at heart he's dull as plain oatmeal.

[Helix]

Let me just say that I understand that none of you know who I am, but I have been playing FF since it came out and I both respect and greatly appreciate all of your contributions to the game.

Tomato - my non-request really was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. As I said, I know that Gren isn't taking requests...and he sure wouldn't take one from somebody he doesn't know. I get that. I was being ironic on purpose and held out no more hope than a 1/1,000,000 chance that Gren might actually do it

As for Moon Knight - yeah he's a poorly written character, but so is Thor, Daredevil, Iron Fist, and all of the ridiculous incarnations of Captain Mar-Vell. But I love those characters too. For that matter, Jim Valentino's take on the Guardians of the Galaxy was just plain stupid, but I like the characters.

Grenadier - I truly and sincerely apologize. I'm just happy that you do what you do.

[Tomato]

*sigh* OK, now I'm actually miffed. I thought this whole thing was dumb before, but having been once again been turned into the bad guy in the situation(Really? I commented that this whole thing was dumb and silly. It IS dumb and silly. Don't get all defensive about it like I punched you or peed on your boxed lunch or whatever), you know what? Eff it. You want Tomato the villain, then I'll be MORE than happy to tear your post apart piece by piece.

Let me just say that I understand that none of you know who I am, but I have been playing FF since it came out and I both respect and greatly appreciate all of your contributions to the game.

Umm... that's nice? Good for you?

Seriously, I don't get the point of this opening. If your intent is to establish yourself as a more seasoned member of the community (one we might not know) then... you should know that actually is going to upset us more. If you've really been around as long as you claim, then you should know better than to pull something like this. You'd know that this kind of thing happens on FR all. the. time. and our reaction is almost always the same... in fact, up until now, you've actually gotten off fairly light. Gren gave you a polite "no" and a couple of us made fun of you. Considering how dumb your request was (I can think of a hundred ways to do this that don't involve making an arse out of yourself publicly) you're lucky to only be getting a mild flame... I've seen instances where "flames" in this sort of situation are not so much posts as they are mini-novels.

Tomato - my non-request really was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. As I said, I know that Gren isn't taking requests...and he sure wouldn't take one from somebody he doesn't know. I get that. I was being ironic on purpose and held out no more hope than a 1/1,000,000 chance that Gren might actually do it

If your intent was to apologize to me here, you really went about it the wrong bucking way. First of all, I didn't really take the post seriously in the first place... I half-thought it was a prank or a bad attempt to troll Gren. You could have left it alone and I probably would have forgotten about it within a day or so.

Instead, you decided to not only bring me back into this... which again, was unnecessary, but make ME as much the target of the apology as Gren. In doing so, you effectively made ME seem like the only person coming down on you... which isn't the case, at all. Hell, my post probably PREVENTED much worse wrath from coming down on your head because I pointed out the ridiculousness of it before someone else could. Now I once again come off like the bad guy in the situation even when my intent with the post was to do the exact opposite.

That would have been enough to annoy me, but you didn't stop there. Instead of apologizing properly or just being like "sorry, I was trying to be funny, obvsly didn't work, heh" You made dumb excuses. "Oh, I was just trying get gren to look at my request even though he doesn't take requests by being satirical" Well, duh. We KNOW that. We didn't have to get past the topic title to realize that was your intent with this nonsense.

What kills me about all this is that I think it goes over everyone's head WHY guys like me don't take requests. We don't take requests not because we're stuck up curmudgeons who kill bunnies and roast little children, we don't take requests because instead of coming to us respectfully and letting us decide whether to do something, people invariably try to force their requests on us... either by spamming us non-stop with their hundreds of requests, or by trying to be clever... "Hey Tomato, you know who'd be cool in your mod? My Av. too bad he doesn't have a skin *nudgenudgewink*" "Tomato, take a look at these comic pages, see anything that interests you? *nudgenudgewink*" Contrast that with requests that I've gotten from decent, well meaning people I may not know who give me a well thought out request (one that comes to mind specifically is a request to make an avatar for tommyboy from someone else on the forum... I never got around to actually doing it, but it was so polite and well meaning I've kept it in my inbox even after several "spring cleanings")

Trying to be clever isn't going to impress anyone, nor will you trick us into doing anything. We've all been around long enough to have seen every trick in the book PLUS the cheat codes that aren't listed. Just... ask politely. You'd be surprised how far it'll go... we may still decide not to do it, but you won't urine us off or anything.

As for Moon Knight - yeah he's a poorly written character, but so is Thor, Daredevil, Iron Fist, and all of the ridiculous incarnations of Captain Mar-Vell. But I love those characters too. For that matter, Jim Valentino's take on the Guardians of the Galaxy was just plain stupid, but I like the characters.

I have nothing to say on the moon knight character... he's never stuck out enough for me to have an opinion on him. I only barely know who he is due to some ultimate books and a few VGs he's been in. Only responding to this paragraph to be a completionist.

Grenadier - I truly and sincerely apologize. I'm just happy that you do what you do.

OK, so... I know you're going to ignore this bit and do so anyway, but I'm going to say it anyway because maybe, just maybe, you'll prove me wrong and take it to heart. Your immediate reaction to my post is going to be a long winded apology where you try to justify your actions basically grovel for my forgiveness. Before you do that, I want you to stand up, grow a pair, and LEAVE IT ALONE. Seriously, don't even respond to this post. You won't be able to justify yourself here... you were an idiot and you know it. All you're going to do by apologizing and making excuses is make those of us who ARE mad at you even madder, and giving us more ammunition to work with. You've done what you needed to already: Apologized to Gren, the only real "victim" (though I expect he's been around long enough he cares less than I did). Nothing else needs to be said to me or anyone else.

What you do from here will show your character... either you read my post and take it all as the Big Meanie Tomato being an arse (and I am, make no mistake... I'm ticked off) and get all defensive about it and react accordingly, or you take a step back and go "Y'know, he might have been an arse, but I WAS being kinda dumb too. Maybe if I listen to what he said, I'll avoid the same issues in the future" and just move on.

[Helix]

Tomato - Wow.

First of all, I wasn't apologizing to you...I was clarifying.

Secondly, if you so brilliantly deduced my nefarious intent simply by reading the title of my post...then why did you read the post??? You knew it was going to make you mad.

Thirdly, I did kind of phrase my apology to the FR community at large because I am not here to offend anybody. And I do appreciate the work that all of the skinners, meshers, modders, etc. do to make these games so fun for the rest of us. If that made you even madder - then that's your problem, not mine.

And lastly, who appointed you the gatekeeper of propriety here? I've seen your infantile rants before and I've seen you rail on people who step "out of bounds." Oddly enough, aside from your bristly delivery, I usually agree with your point. But, that doesn't change the fact that you really should just mind your own business because I'm sure that Grenadier (or whomever) can handle his own. But I think you know that. I think you just like smacking down the newbies and the fanboys because it feeds your overinflated sense of self-importance. Well, bad news, bro...I'm not a newbie or a fanboy. I may have failed at being amusing, but I'm not an idiot and I don't deserve your condescending, histrionic, evil cheerleader power-trip.

Now, I'm sure that little line I wrote in response to you wasn't worth the nine volume response you just posted. Honestly, I fell asleep more than once reading that. It was longer than The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner. So, I can only conclude that you already had that speech rattling around in your dome for quite awhile and that you were just waiting for an opportunity to use it. Well, you can check that one off of your "To Do:" list.

[BentonGrey]

Jeez folks, play nice.  I believe this discussion has successfully gotten both out of hand and off topic.  I recommend that if y'all have anything to say other than to make peace you take it to PM's.

Listen Helix, tone is notoriously hard to get in text.  Tongue-in-cheek doesn't work so well in this type of setting with this type of context (one that many creators are sorta' sensitive about), but okay.  Given the history of this forum and the number of people who have walked in with their digital hands out, demanding that artists create something for them in more or less words and with more or less creativity, many people are pretty touchy about just this type of thing.  It has, quite literally, driven creators away from the community, and that is a real tragedy.  You say you didn't intend it to be that type of post, well and good, but you can certainly understand how a creator can be upset by this whole situation.  While Gren is certainly perfectly capable of dealing with something that bothers him on his own, the community does tend to try to shield our creators from the necessity of doing just that when we can.  'Mato often responds with what I think is a bit of excessive force, but then again, I haven't been dealing with entitled posters as long as he has, nor, being a modder, have I had the same type of experience with people demanding content from me.  You say you're a long time member of the community?  Well, then you should certainly have some conception of what folks like 'Mato have had to deal with over the years.

'Mato, come on man, this isn't worth getting worked up about.  You were rude to him (deservedly or undeservedly, it doesn't really matter), and he was rude to you.  I understand your frustrations, though I haven't dealt with them to the extent you have, but there isn't any real reason to "be the villain."  We all agree the original post was in poor taste given the community's history, let's leave it at that, shall we?  Plus, you darn well know you kill bunnies and roast children.  Don't deny it.

Come on boys, play nice.

[Helix]

Benton - I understand. I should have thought about how my post would be received by the frustrated creators who are bombarded with asinine requests. Truly, I was short-sighted and foolish.

[Tomato]

I had a big long post ready, but Benton's right... it's not worth getting worked up about, and I am sorry for getting that upset with you Helix.

That said... I want to clarify something, and it's probably why I'm most annoyed by the whole situation... the reason I rant isn't because of some vain attempt to make myself better by putting people down, nor is it even "to try to shield our creators." I don't need to be petty to make myself feel better (especially when doing stuff like ponifying avatars does a much better job of brightening my day), and I don't feel like most of the guys I'm protecting need it. I rant because my hope is that maybe if I yell loud enough, if I get angry enough, I'll shake someone out of their own pride long enough for them to listen, that maybe I'll plant the seeds for making them into better people and better members of the community.

I used to be like some of these guys(not Helix obviously, I'm referring to others I've ranted on)... a hack skinner who used to kittbash work and wanted the entire community to take notice of his 1337ness. I honestly thought I was better than everyone, and deserved all praise. It wasn't until someone (I won't name him, but it might be obvious to those who've been around long enough) took the time to basically tear me a new one that I actually got set straight. And for all the other crud he did, all his nonsense and self-righteousness and ego, I at least owe him for making me a better person. If not for him, I might still be the whiney self-serving passant who never developed his talents, instead of who I am now.

I hate being the bad guy. I really do. I'd much rather just play CoX right now. But if in my excessive reactions I get one person, just one, to learn from a mistake and be better for it? It's worth all the names, all the demonizing, and all the hate that I bring on myself with those rants.

[BentonGrey]

Thanks for the sensible reply Helix.  This is the kind of thing a lot of folks don't think about, so it's understandable.

'Mato, thanks for being level-headed as well.  I'm sure that your motivation is as you say, hoping to better the community.  If we didn't love this place so much we wouldn't occasionally be moved to such extremes.  And I do mean we, 'cause I've lost my temper around here too.

In the end, we've all got some understanding coming from this, and that's a good thing.

Now, let's shake hands and come out swinging...err....I mean friends, eh?

[Helix]

Tomato - I am sorry as well. Given your personal experiences, I can see how a little smackdown here and there is your way of paying it forward. I know you've heard every excuse in the book from fans who constantly make demands...and I know that is exactly how my post came across to you. So I am truly sorry, man. Please understand that if I had been making a serious request, though, it would have been humble and gracious. With that said, I do acknowledge as well, that there was some manipulation involved since I did hold out the tiniest hope that Gren would accept. Believe me, I had to be real honest with myself after you made the <winkwinknudgenudge> point...and although I did not recognize it at first, you were, in fact, right. Rude, but right. Haha. At any rate, I don't want to be enemies...and some part of me respects your protectionist attitude. I guess I just didn't like it pointed at me. But I understand now that I deserved it. I will think harder before I post next time.

[Helix]

Thanks for playing referee, Benton! 

[Panther_Gunn]

[completely off-topic]  Well, at least we know where Murs peed this morning.  In 'mato's Pony Chow.    [/completely off-topic]

[grenadier]

Okay guys, enough.  If you guys ruin my Super bowl Sunday, I'll have both of you in a dark alley covered in bruises, and don't think I can't find you.  I used to do that as living and I still know people who are better at it than I am today.

Tomato, Love your work dude, and I have a great respect for your opinion because it mirrors my own.

Helix, you have no idea what I really wanted to write.  Tomato's pretty tame compared to what I wanted to express, but I'm not here to make enemies just friends.  Everyone makes mistakes and everyone blows up now and then.  Just take it with a grain of salt and move on.  I got nothing against anybody, not even the guys I've flamed, so let's just lock up this thread.  If this continues and my Super Bowl Sunday is ruined.  I'm going to have words with somebody.

'nuff said.

[Tomato]

*nervous cough* Um... Gren? Teensy bit late. I think we're more or less made up now.

[BentonGrey]

Haha!  Wow, that's great.   Everything seems pretty well resolved now.  Well done gentlemen.

[Tomato]

Haha!  Wow, that's great.   Everything seems pretty well resolved now.  Well done gentlemen.

Well... mostly. Other then the Murs-peed-in-my-lunch issue, sure.

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, but we're going to have to neuter him before we can really resolve that one....

[Panther_Gunn]

Yeah, but we're going to have to neuter him before we can really resolve that one....

I was just going to give him a Ren & Stimpy game.  See, it involves this electric fence.......