DC Comics Reboot

[HarryTrotter]

Sorry about that,forgot to spoiler tag it. 
Linkara really took the scarab thing to heart.And yes,killing

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Pandora

wasnt really necessary.And yes,Infinite Crisis already addressed same problems.
And DCs track record with

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absorbing other universes hasn't been the greatest.

I guess Im somewhat optimistic about the whole thing.

[bearded]

New subject title suggestion:
"Re: DC Comics Reboot" Rebirth
Get it?
Anyway, I read it. I like it. I wonder if Alan Moore will react?

[HarryTrotter]

He did threathen them with blood  magic after the colouring book...
Now that Geoff Johns is leaving for Movie division,this leaves Dan DiDio and Jim Lee in charge.And Bob Harras I guess,but hes pretty much nonexistent.They are the reason Rebirth is happening.

[bearded]

Well. When you get everything so wrong, only place to go is up. Clone Saga, Knightfall, One More Day, list goes on and on. I find that while I hate the changing of the formula, I tend to like the resetting to old values stories. They generally aren't as good as the actual old stories, but in comparison to the progressive drek, it's at least an attempt at quality. I just hope the with John's leaving the other writers can maintain the respect for the old continuity that worked better. Out with the old, in with the new. The new flounders, back with the old. And people buy them for a while, until another upset is needed to catch interest.

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I'm not sure how I feel about Moore's angst. I feel like Cap Atom and company could have been used just as well, with the Multiversity stories. But with less controversy. Perhaps Controversy being the main draw. I would have created a new character based on both of them. Captain Manhattan.

I do actually hate the leaks. I would have appreciated the surprise. The leaks were unavoidable.

[HarryTrotter]

Those may not be the greatest examples,seeing it took some time for Spiderman titles to recover from those.Its debatable if they still have recovered from OMD,but another topic...
Some may hate me for saying this,but Knightfall wasnt a bad story.Too long,sure,but not that bad in the final score.
Trailing off here,but point being,can we expect something different from the same people?The universe changed,but the editors didn't.

[kkhohoho]

Those may not be the greatest examples,seeing it took some time for Spiderman titles to recover from those.Its debatable if they still have recovered from OMD,but another topic...
Some may hate me for saying this,but Knightfall wasnt a bad story.Too long,sure,but not that bad in the final score.
Trailing off here,but point being,can we expect something different from the same people?The universe changed,but the editors didn't.

Hm...

'Good news; the DC Universe is poised to head in a lighter, more optimistic, and more traditional direction, with many  old legacies and relationships being restored! Bad news: The same old writers and editors are still around, and if they haven't added in a lighter tone and those old relationships before, than they won't do it now, because they couldn't care less.'

Yeah; the DCU might be a better place for a year or two, but unless there's a serious change in management, I'm not sure if there will be that much of a difference in the long run. Not to mention, I'm not even sure if the current crop of writers even ''want'' to add in some of that old legacies and relationships, because if they did, you'd think they would have been in there from the start. For example, maybe the reason Green Arrow and Black Canary haven't been together is because the GA and Birds of Prey writers just though that, no, they were never actually a good fit and should never have been together in the first place? (Which is something I kind of actually feel myself, but I digress.) And so on and so forth. And now, they have Mr.Johns getting in their face and cramping their style, forcing them to add in relationships and legacies they may have just never wanted to bother with, and as soon as they get the chance, they may just choose to do whatever the heck they want to again. Of course, I could be completely wrong here, but that's one way to view it.

[GhostMachine]

Question: In the Last Days of Superman storyline that's just ended, is the man who looks like Superman but with a beard and a black bodysuit with a Superman logo on it supposed to be

Spoiler

The post-Crisis, married to Lois Superman

?

[kkhohoho]

Question: In the Last Days of Superman storyline that's just ended, is the man who looks like Superman but with a beard and a black bodysuit with a Superman logo on it supposed to be

Spoiler

The post-Crisis, married to Lois Superman

?

Spoiler

Yeeup.

[HarryTrotter]

Its not that easy to point a finger at just one person and blame them for the past 5-6 years.This was really a team effort.
But I would have to agree with Rob Liefeld and say DC's problems are not the writers but editors.
Which reminds me,Dan Abnett signed an exclusive contract with DC.It would be interesting if he does some cosmic storylines.

[Silver Shocker]

I do actually hate the leaks. I would have appreciated the surprise. The leaks were unavoidable.

I'm happy to say the only thing I had spoiled was the big ending reveal. I've had so many things spoiled in the last few years (darn near every week with the Game of Thrones and Walking Dead, this season, GAH) that I got wise. I avoided this thread until I read the book cuz I knew y'all were talking about it, and I've had a spoiler blocker app installed on my internet browser since before The Force Awakens came out. Which isn't perfect, but it certainly helps. I encourage anyone who wants to avoid spoilers and can't get caught up in their comics and shows right away to seek it out.
It really would have something if I had no idea about that final reveal (though admittedly I probably would clued in at the beginning with the clocks) but fortunately everything else (especially that Flash bit) was a pleasant surprise so I came out pretty happy.

^ Just read that. I'm mixed on it. He and Lanning were great on cosmic Marvel so I'm a bit sad they're trapped at DC now but if they did some big scale epic DC story that could be cool. I really need to read Titans Hunt some time, cuz it seems interesting and the new angle for the Rebirth Titans book intrigues me.

Spoiler

[edit] so after doing some research, I found out that the guy with the staff who talked to Superman was a guy called Mr. Oz, introduced during John's New 52 Superman run. So I guess he's supposed to be Ozymandias? Crazy.

[HarryTrotter]

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/comics/dc_comics/dc-rebirth-has-the-cast-of-watchmen-already-started-appearing-in-a142046

Actually,there are some interesting theories about that.
Namely,that

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Comedian is Joker.Well,one of them.

[Silver Shocker]

Eh, not sure how I feel about that one.

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Though the prospect of Negan from the Walking Dead as the Joker is pretty effing amusing. 

[HarryTrotter]

Previous theory

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Rorschach one makes sense.But I dont really see Gotham being Nite Owl.

Then again,it would be a pretty obvious choice to pit him against Batman.

[Silver Shocker]

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To be honest, I'm a little weary of the prospect of spreading the Watchmen cast all over the place. Part of the reason I buy "Mr. Oz" as Ozy is because Johns wrote that run. I'd kinda prefer not to have to check the DC wiki 6 months from now to have to figure out where the heck all these characters have been since now.

Speaking of Batman, Snyder's new Batman book will be about Batman, Two Face, and a desert road trip. They specifically said it's gonna be Batman meets Mad Max: Fury Road. Not sure what to think about that. Not seen the film. Not a huge Two-Face fan but if anyone can revitalize him it's Scott Snyder.

I read Endgame recently. Quite enjoyed it, with a caveat I mentioned in an earlier post and a minor nickpick.

Spoilers for a several years old plot twist that's probably retconned to oblivion at this point.

Spoiler

So according to Scott Snyder, the Joker was/is a centuries old immortal caveman in the style of Vandal Savage who sweats magical healing blood. And you know it's legit because the characters discover photos throughout history with the Joker photobombing the shot. And one of the characters says that if they're doctored it's the best photo manipulation job ever 4 realz u gais. AND we're expected to accept it because the story arc (and at least one of the tie-ins) featured a series of backups featuring mental patients telling a series of increasingly absurd possible origins for the Joker such as him being a folk lore boogeyman, a 50's pulp Sci Fi Robot and a test subject in a super soldier project to mass produce Batman.

I totally respect Snyder. I do. He's the real deal on Batman. But this retcon sucks beans. It really does. It's the laziest, most cliche, "2edgy4u" modern shock value headline grabbing fan fiction nonsense. But I beyond that I dislike for two other reasons:
1. We already have Vandal Savage. And Solomon Grundy.
2. It misses the entire point of the Joker completely. He's supposed to be a really crazy unpowered normal. Batman's perfect nemesis. He's also supposed to be a criminal mastermind, not a Sci Fi monster. Chaos to Batman's order and mysterious as a matter of course. I think the Tim Burton version is more appropriate than this.

This is why I'm fine with the current plot for Joker in DC's books. By default it's gotta be better than this.

The other issue I have is at one point Grayson dresses up as Batman to distract Joker while Bats does something else, and Joker is fooled for it for a bit. Yet In Scott Sydner's earlier Black Mirror arc, back when D1ck was Batman, Joker could tell he wasn't the original Batman right away. I'm not sure if Snyder forgot his own lore, or that doesn't count because it's Pre-New 52 (despite several villains from that arc appearing in Batman Eternal) but it bothered me.

I also read Batman: Eternal and Batman & Robin Eternal (only vol. 1 for the later) and I quite enjoyed both. Art could have been a lot better. Really liked seeing Spoiler and Cass again. When I found out Stephanie Brown entire history got reset I was annoyed, since none of the other Bat family members were starting out, AND it means Didio and co finally let Steph fans get their character back but missed the point of WHY they wanted her back i.e. her history and relationships with the other characters, but in the actual books she's fine. No issue with Cass resetting for a very logical reason: in the New 52 Lady Shiva, who was her mother in the original timeline, is too young to be her mother.

One thing I'm iffy on in B&R Eternal:

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Steph seems to dislike Cass, despite them being besties pre-New52, but Harper Row is the one who takes to her. Don't get me wrong, I like Harper Row, but it's supposed to be Steph and Cass. I'm hoping this changes by the end of the book.

Also read the final issue of Secret Six this week. It was fun. I seriously doubt this was originally intended to be the final arc but it had a decent enough wrapup. Few things I wanted to comment on:

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I am SHOCKED that DC let Simone included the word "Sh**", UNCENSORED, in a T+ DC book. I'm assuming it's because it was the final issue so, what are they gonna do, double cancel it? PLUS it was out the same week as Rebirth and was low selling so who's gonna notice? I'm kinda hoping Simone discussed that online because I'd love to her comments on it. She did say that in the old run DC never gave her trouble about the content in the book (though they once covered up a bare butt with a speech balloon without her knowing until the book came out, and butchered an Etrigan rhyme by censoring a fairy innocuous term for the male anatomy, but otherwise sure).

The other thing I'm iffy on is I didn't get why Ventriloquist betrayed the team. I honestly can't remember if that came up earlier in the book, but I'm dead certain it's a plot that got cut short by the book's cancellation.

The book was plagued by troubles that went very much unpublished online. The first few issues were heavily delayed (undoubtedly due to the initial artist, Ken Lashley), one issue actual coming out out of sequence All-New X-Men style. But funny thing, immediately after, the art got better, the book got out on time, and it picked up. But I knew it'd get cancelled. I'm just glad I got more S6 for a while. Here's hoping Gail does something else cool for DC or Marvel that I'd want to read.

[HarryTrotter]

I think the biggest pull for All Star Batman is that John Romita Junior is doing the artwork.And yes,Batman does look like Big Daddy.On the other hand,another Long Halloween/Hush style story doesn't really sound innovative.

[Silver Shocker]

I think the biggest pull for All Star Batman is that John Romita Junior is doing the artwork.And yes,Batman does look like Big Daddy.On the other hand,another Long Halloween/Hush style story doesn't really sound innovative.

Big Daddy from Bioshock? You mean the robot suit? Wait, is Gordon still Batman as well? I always thought robot suit looked like the guy from the anime series Appleseed. It's the rabbit ears.

Jr.'s a mixed bag for me. Some of his Marvel work was seriously rushed (AvX, anyone?), pretty much all his characters look the same (Peter/Logan/Nick Fury/Frank Castle/Daredevil) and he tends to be paired with some seriously washed out colors. Yet I really like his Superman art. I think, like Mark Bagley before him, he's gotten out of a funk that was undeniably brought on by being rushed as hell.

[HarryTrotter]

Big Daddy from Kickass. 
To be fair,his only-one-face problem isnt as bad as say Steve Dillons.Everyone is Frank,anyone?

[Silver Shocker]

Oh ok. Never read it.
Ugh, I know. I'm actually been reading Way's Thunderbolts lately. Steve Dillon's art is so ugly and flat. Why do people like him again? Besides doing Ennis' Punisher?

[HarryTrotter]

He also did some work for Judge Dredd.Still,everyone had Franks face.Actually,Frank had Dredds face,because that was first.It was a bit less noticeable because of the helmets,but its still one same face he always draws.Thats also where his collaboration with Garth Ennis started.
Yeah,Romitas Batman look a bit like Big Daddy.More like the movie version thou.But Batman runs a gauntlet of his enemies in 12 issues has been done at least 3 times already,that I can remember(Long Halloween,Hush and Gotham after Midnight).
And the second printing of Rebirth is priced at 5,99.Makes sense...

[HarryTrotter]

Dont think anyone mentioned it,but: Rebirth Joker.Reminds you of a certain rocker?

[jevian2000]

Dont think anyone mentioned it,but: Rebirth Joker.Reminds you of a certain rocker?

Well, it reminds me of Jared Leto's take.(for those who don't know, Leto is the lead singer of one of the best bands around, 30 seconds to mars.)

That's a beautiful picture.

jeff

[HarryTrotter]

I was thinking Merilyn Manson.

[HarryTrotter]

Looks like Justice League of America got canceled.I guess that means Hitch is fired.
And I might have mentioned it; Dan Abnett signed an exclusive contract with DC.Im interested to see if he will be doing any cosmic stories.But I doubt that.

[Silver Shocker]

Not cancelled, re solicited. Same thing happened with JL #51 and #52. I'm not a fan of people using the term "cancelled" that way lately. Sends the wrong message.
Yes, you did mention Abnett's exclusive earlier in this thread, same page in fact. I imagine at some point I'm going to have to go beyond "He was great on the Marvel cosmic books" and give his other stuff like Titans a chance. I had a similar experience when I went from Gail Simone being the writer of Deadpool and Agent X to one of my favorite writers immediately after I read Villains United (the mini that launched the Secret Six).

In other news DC recently made this years Free Comic Book Day offerings free on Comixology (Dark Horse did the same for their books on their own site; I'm waiting on Marvel's) These included the first issue of the New 52's Suicide Squad, and a DC Super Hero Girls comic.

[HarryTrotter]

Sorry,I have a lot of stuff going on right now,so I must have forgot about it.
Seeing that DC cosmic stuff is mostly Lanterns related,I guess Abnett wont be going there soon.
IIRC Venditti is still writing Green Lantern.One of the titles at least.Bit odd considering he hasn't really done such a great job at DC.

Before Rebirth,there was some talk about Hickman coming over to DC,but I guess that didnt happen.

[HarryTrotter]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/report-green-arrow-rebirth-1-sells-over-90000-copies
Looks like Green Arrow Rebirth sold over 90 000.Is this synergy thing working for once?I guess we will know soon.

And the continuation of the other major situation at DC comics.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/07/when-diane-nelson-spoke-to-katie-jones-about-sexual-harassment/

[HarryTrotter]

Triple posting,I know.I apologize.
We mentioned it in Marvel thread,so -Geoff Johns,Rebirth and darkening of superhero comics-
It reminded me on something from long ago-
http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2012/09/speaking-power-to-stupid-the-ever-dumb-green-lantern-comics-of-geoff-johns/
The writer hated Johns with a passion,but there are some good points.Blood vomiting for once.Dismemberment.Revamping villains as "edgy".
Yeah,Johns takes a good part of the blame here,cant deny that.Brad Meltzer might have started the DC universe on a darker path,but Johns didn't really help.
The irony of him complaining about it in Rebirth isn't really lost on anyone.

[Talavar]

Triple posting,I know.I apologize.
We mentioned it in Marvel thread,so -Geoff Johns,Rebirth and darkening of superhero comics-
It reminded me on something from long ago-
http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2012/09/speaking-power-to-stupid-the-ever-dumb-green-lantern-comics-of-geoff-johns/
The writer hated Johns with a passion,but there are some good points.Blood vomiting for once.Dismemberment.Revamping villains as "edgy".
Yeah,Johns takes a good part of the blame here,cant deny that.Brad Meltzer might have started the DC universe on a darker path,but Johns didn't really help.
The irony of him complaining about it in Rebirth isn't really lost on anyone.

Yeah, I got that feeling myself--Johns complaining about the very thing he's done for years is weird to me.

[HarryTrotter]

Sooo...Mera votes out?Or at least,Rich has that theory.

[detourne_me]

Has anybody else been reading the new Hanna-Barbara comics? Ive only been reading Future Quest, and so far it's fantastic.  I'm sure it would appeal to Daglob and a few other guys here.

The story of Future Quest combines Johnny Quest, Birdman, Space Ghost and the Herculoids into a shared universe. The art is fantastic and it really carries the tone of the cartoons well.