Fun Facts about your Hero Files!

[Shogunn2517]

That's the thing.  I haven't seen much that would tell me that Wonder Woman, Thor, Marvel and Adam are any weaker than those you have on the top tier.

[nrozich]

That's the thing.  I haven't seen much that would tell me that Wonder Woman, Thor, Marvel and Adam are any weaker than those you have on the top tier.

That's where it gets a little muddled.  While most people would say that Superman is stronger than those characters, how much stronger he is, is the real question.

[BentonGrey]

That's the thing.  I haven't seen much that would tell me that Wonder Woman, Thor, Marvel and Adam are any weaker than those you have on the top tier.

I've seen plenty to show that WW is weaker than anyone in that list you just gave, much less the top tier there.  However, I've always preferred the non Superman level Wonder Woman of the Silver and Bronze Age.  In the last twenty years or so they've constantly played her up as only a little weaker than Supes.

This is a really awesome thread guys!  I've been wracking my brains for a week trying to think of something that I would classify as a "fun fact" about my herofiles.  I'll try and take a stab at it soon.

[Shogunn2517]

That's the thing.  I haven't seen much that would tell me that Wonder Woman, Thor, Marvel and Adam are any weaker than those you have on the top tier.

I've seen plenty to show that WW is weaker than anyone in that list you just gave, much less the top tier there.  However, I've always preferred the none Superman level Wonder Woman of the Silver and Bronze Age.  In the last twenty years or so they've constantly played her up as only a little weaker than Supes.

This is a really awesome thread guys!  I've been wracking my brains for a week trying to think of something that I would classify as a "fun fact" about my herofiles.  I'll try and take a stab at it soon.

Yeah of course, that is true.  She has been portrayed inconsistently in the past.  However, I tend to think of Wonder Woman as being a Superman for girls.  Not exactly a clone, but a powerhouse, dominant figure.  Of course her invulnerability/durability has been as inconsistant as her strength, I've tried to simulate it in a way to make her able to compete with powerhouses like Superman, Marvel, Darkseid and others.

BTW, in building an Icon, I've been testing him against Superman and Captain Marvel and vice-versa.  Originally, I thought my Marvel was better than my Superman.  I've matched them before and Marvel would come on top.  But after testing today, due to Superman's other offensive abilities, he overwhelms Marvel.  Both(along with Icon) have the ability to hit really hard to surpass any invulnerabilities but Superman comes out on top.

Just another observation.

[Kenn]

This is why, among other reasons, I pulled the 10 STR cap out of my copy of FFX.   With just 1-10, there is very little room for graduated values.  Some of the subtle differences get lost in the mix.

For instance, thanks to OHOTMU (whilst the actual numbers are crap), I've long been under the belief that Hercules is somewhat stronger than Thor in terms of actual lifting power.   But how does one represent that difference in FF without raising the kinds of questions I've seen here?  My Hercules is a 20 STR, and my Thor is a 19 STR.  Hercules is stronger, but the difference is less egregious.

Similarly, this allows for not all Kryptonians to be the same STR.   Ursa is a 18 STR.  General Zod is a 19 STR.  Non, like Superman, is a 20 STR ("The big one's just as strong as Superman.")  Similarly, amongst my Marvel family, Mary is 18, Freddy 19, Billy and Adam 20.

[detourne_me]

Can you tell us how to modify strength like that? Is it possible to modify other attributes as well?

This is why, among other reasons, I pulled the 10 STR cap out of my copy of FFX.   With just 1-10, there is very little room for graduated values.  Some of the subtle differences get lost in the mix.

For instance, thanks to OHOTMU (whilst the actual numbers are crap), I've long been under the belief that Hercules is somewhat stronger than Thor in terms of actual lifting power.   But how does one represent that difference in FF without raising the kinds of questions I've seen here?  My Hercules is a 20 STR, and my Thor is a 19 STR.  Hercules is stronger, but the difference is less egregious.

Similarly, this allows for not all Kryptonians to be the same STR.   Ursa is a 18 STR.  General Zod is a 19 STR.  Non, like Superman, is a 20 STR ("The big one's just as strong as Superman.")  Similarly, amongst my Marvel family, Mary is 18, Freddy 19, Billy and Adam 20.

[Kenn]

If you go into the FFX.PY file inside the "FFX_SetStrength" and "InitHeavyLifter" routines there are two lines in particular in both places:

       if str>9:
          str=9

These are the specific commands that cap STR at 10 (the value is 1 plus the number).   If you comment these lines out by putting pound signs in the beginning of both lines:

#        if str>9:
#            str=9

they won't be executed.

The other thing is that using the FFX combined attributes, heavylifter can be used multiple times.  I've also added a few "heavylifter" near-clones using different values.  "Heavylifter" is +3; "superstrong" is +5; "bonustrong" is +2, and "extrastrong" is +1.  This lets me tailor my combined attributes as I see to add a variety of values.

As far as the other attributes go, I haven't actually tried it with END or ENG.  I think it works with Agility, but it's hard to tell.   While it can be done with SPD, there is something, I believe in the original engine, that makes attack powers not work if your SPD exceeds 10.

Also, I'm still on so I don't know what will and won't allow.

[detourne_me]

Ahh great!thanks for the response... I've always wanted to set it at a scale of twenty or something across all five to allow for more customization.

[hoss20]

Kenn, I'm curious if removing the Strength cap has any effect on melee damage or, since it works in conjunction with Heavy Lifter, does it only affect lifting and throwing (as the attribute states).

[Kenn]

When M25 synthesised the "heavylifter" attribute for use in combined attributes he didn't do anything with the "no increase in damage" aspect of it.  That said, yes, increasing STR will increase melee damage considerably.  A "crushing" level 5 medium attack with a 19 STR against "stone" has a base damage of 40.  The same attack against the same target with a 20 STR has a base damage of 42.   With a heavy attack it will be 60 and 63.   Against "flesh" these values are basically doubled.

[hoss20]

   Thanks for the reply. I saw that there was an update to the attribute besides being available for combos, but couldn't find the documentation on what was done.
   Do you make any adjustments for ranged powers? I currently leave power levels alone for melee, but try to respectively increase them for ranged attacks to try to equal them out. I know Light Speed is an option, but then I worry about available attribute slots, doing too much damage, and so on.

[Tawodi Osdi]

I'm subject to putting Captain Marvel equal with Superman, but that is more due to subjective bias than objective observation.  I use 9 for the knockoffs like Supergirl, Superboy, Cap Jr, and such.

[yell0w_lantern]

I've just been eyeballing it based on my personal biases but I may actually use the increased strength like Kenn.

[etherealblade]

Yay! not a dead thread! =D....So I was fiddling with some options for a micro-munitions approach for Iron man. I picked a projectile added, homing, very slow, Flight spawn 4, and a random energy fx and was very very pleased with the results. I though to make it really affordable so I made the energy cost high and the magnitude very low....with no knock back or stun. The results were truly amazing. It one shotted so many heros in sandbox mode. Total Win! =)  

[yell0w_lantern]

That's pretty cool sounding.

Proximity mines can be fun too, especially with high upward knockback.

[scc]

I edited my ffx.py file to have strength go beyond 10 but it didn't seem to work. When you go into the character creator in game the +sign maxes out at ten. When you edit this in fx.py will you see it go beyond 10 while in the character creator, or do you have to use ffx edit or something. Thanks!

[lugaru]

I edited my ffx.py file to have strength go beyond 10 but it didn't seem to work. When you go into the character creator in game the +sign maxes out at ten. When you edit this in fx.py will you see it go beyond 10 while in the character creator, or do you have to use ffx edit or something. Thanks!

I remember hearing that somebody edited individual characters to somehow have more than that. Also a lot of FFX attributes push the limits, so if you want "cosmic" strenght use something that adds strenght like Defense Mechanism. That way I've seen Hulks and Supermen really push the limits of the game.

That said I rarely have to push limits like that. I'm a "everybody sucks" designer while for example Benton who posts on this thread is an "everyone is awesome" hero file designer.

That means that he uses more damage and armor than I do, so if two of his characters fight or two of mine fight the results are consistent. That said if his Aquaman ever fought my aquaman, my aquaman would probably die in 2 seconds.

[BentonGrey]

Probably, Lu, probably.  Haha, this is a very interesting thread, and it has taken me an age and a day, but I finally got around to posting some thoughts about my herofiles philosophy.  So, interesting facts, hmm?  Well, something that I find interesting (and I might very well be the only one) is that my design philosophy has changed pretty dramatically in the last few years.  When I designed the pantheon of the DCUG, a huge array of characters covering most of the DC Universe, I focused on being as accurate as possible.  I had a pretty narrow approach, and had a pretty formulaic way of building my characters.  Everybody who was a brawler got a regular attack and a combo, and maybe some other stuff.  Characters who had a lot of powers or were very versatile had all 10 power slots filled, like Batman or Superman.  On the other hand, characters whose powers or skills were more specific had only a handful of powers, like Aqualad. 

Lately though, I played back through both FF games, and I was really struck with just how well all of the characters were designed.  They were all so unique and interesting, and most of them had all 10 power slots filled.  So, I've been designing my characters to follow that type of strategy.  I try to fill all 10 slots (especially for heroes who will be used in campaigns), focusing on making characters unique and interesting.  All Captain America can do is brawl and throw his shield, really, but instead of just giving him two or three melee attacks and a shield throw, I give him a variety of attacks that are useful in different situations.  He can cripple a foe, stun him, knock him back, or toss him across the map.  The Thing is strong and tough, but he's also good at wrestling, so he can grapple foes and throw them. 

That said, I still really focus on accuracy.  I don't ever want Bucky to be able to take Thor in a fair fight.  I'm also using a different frame of reference for my Marvel mod, which is where I've been doing most of my new herofile work.  My experience with DC is laregly from the stories of the 70's and 80's, plus JLU.  For Marvel, I'm most familiar with the classic stories of the 60's and early 70's.  So, the characters are, in general, not quite as powerful as they eventually became over the years. 

Well, anyway, I hope that someone out there will find that interesing.  It was certainly more fun for me to talk about than it was for me to grade the papers sitting in front of me.

[lugaru]

My philosophy is similar to Benton:

1) Stats are always on the low end... 4 str can lift a car so I keep that in mind. 3 is pretty much anyone with any training, so if you are an X-Man/Woman you probably have 3. 2 is usually just kid sidekicks, civilians and elderly characters.
2) Everyone has at least one free attack, often melee. Melee always has at least a microscopic chance of stun.
3) Anyone with combat training usually has at least one move specializing in stun, at least one in knockback and one in pure damage for piercing armor.
4) I prefer stuff that lowers damage by percentage than by a flat number. Flat damage reduction is only for characters that should completely shrug off bullets, human punches, etc. I rarely reduce damage by more than 10.
5) Sonic is usually bashing with low damage and high stun.
6) Not big on passive defense, except for dodgers, temporary force fields and immunities.

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, I've gotten to be somewhat careful about using passive defenses too, but I often have SOME form of passive defense, even if it is very rare.  I've kept pretty much everyone who is street level or vanilla human at 3 strength, but I've begun to run into trouble from the strength knockback bug and I've been fudging that line more these days.

[Shogunn2517]

I do similar.  If I'm giving a single character more than one type of attack(melee, range, area, etc) I'd want it to have a different effect.  Such as maybe a standard punch, a melee attack with a heavy stun(and less damage), a melee attack with a larger knockback.  That's three separate attacks.

Additionally, because of FFX, I've be using passive defenses less, but I have been using it for a number of "martial artist"(Batman, Daredevil, etc) to give them a higher probability to block most melee attacks, which in turn gives them a higher value in a fight.  Also characters like Wonder Woman and Captain America have a passive defense against range attacks too.