Death in the Fantastic 4

[JeyNyce]

It was only a matter of time

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/12/22/ff/

Marvel executive editor Tom Brevoort made it crystal clear: "A core character from the series, whom you've seen in the [2005 and 2007] films, will be no more," he told CNN.

[Tomato]

God... I mean, Jack Kirby, will just send whoever it is back to earth alive.

[herodad1]

anybody have a clue as to who they are getting rid of? crap like this is why ive given up on comics. re-inventing icons?  maybe get writers that have better ideas than "i dunno...maybe kill off a character thats been around forever."  look at our comics now-a-days. all the classics are being replaced by "new characters". new cap, red hulk, red she-hulk, new hercules,....! 

[GogglesPizanno]

I don't mind killing characters... if they stay dead, and the death actually meant something.

But once I reached the realization (eons ago) that most super hero comics are just a series of stories followed by some "dramatic event" that changes everything, only to be quickly nullified to go back to the original status quo... I just lost my interest.

That I think is inherently the problem with ongoing neverending comic series.

[steamteck]

Idiots who show no reponsibility for the legacy they're the caretakers of.

[Podmark]

anybody have a clue as to who they are getting rid of?

I've been guessing Johnny.

[steamteck]

I'm guessing Alicia myself.

[President Raygun]

I'm hoping for Willie Lumpkin. (Now let's see them find a role for Stan Lee in the FF reboot movie)

[murs47]

I'm hoping all of four of them.

[Courtnall6]

It's just so sad...to wish that something I once loved so dear...would just shrivel up and die already.

[ElijahSnowFan]

anybody have a clue as to who they are getting rid of?

I've been guessing Johnny.

Me too...just feels like it's his time, since they really don't do much w/him, most of the time.

[lugaru]

anybody have a clue as to who they are getting rid of? crap like this is why ive given up on comics. re-inventing icons?  maybe get writers that have better ideas than "i dunno...maybe kill off a character thats been around forever."  look at our comics now-a-days. all the classics are being replaced by "new characters". new cap, red hulk, red she-hulk, new hercules,....! 

In my own opinion Cap has been a success story and the red hulks are old characters with an infusion of power for a storyline.

In my opinion the character killed should be Reed or Sue... it would be more meaningful if one of them is left behind. I would choose Reed... let other super scientists get the spotlight and honestly nobody writes him that well. Human Torch should become a Spidey family character and I dont mind The Thing as an avenger.

Just wanted to share a thread I did on another forum a while back called "seriosly... how would you fix the fantastic four"

1) Make them an unnoficial "cosmic" book. Get them a space station that they can teleport back and forth from easily, have them interact with most alien races, have Reed consult on saving dying planets... get them off earth more often.

2) Double the team and dont tell anyone. They are and always will be The Fanastic Four, but that said it is a small circle and you always need a few more people tagging along. Have Lyja show up again, She-Hulk cameos, brief team ups with C listers... I mean it is a family book but every family has cousins.

3) Get a funny writer that gets comics. Somebody like Fred Van Lente, with a sense of humor but also an epic stack of long boxes. Bring back old and obscure characters, crack a joke but make them threatening too. You know what they say about no bad characters...

4) Take a chance with the Art. You dont have to sequester Mike Alred but somebody less in the tradition of "brutes and babes" and more in a kinetic, expressive style would be nice. dren, get an anime artist for all I care.

5) Let Doom go. Having him fight other heroes has let him unleash his nasty side, so let Doom go be the villain for other books for a long time while focusing on wackier, cooler stories.

[GhostMachine]

I'm with you on Reed being the one who should die. My second choice would be Johnny.

I've read people saying that the Thing is the one who is most easy to replace. And to that I say....nope. Power-wise, he definitely is, but Ben's really the heart of the team and has the most personality.

Sue has been shown to be the most powerful member of the team (something you can thank John Byrne for, whether you like him or not), and I'd think that if Reed were killed whoever did it would have hell to pay once she goes after them.

As for Doctor Doom, I'd like to see a story where he loses his diplomatic immunity and doesn't get it back for at least a couple of years. What if Latveria was somehow wiped off the map? No country = no diplomatic immunity. He's always gotten away with things because of his status, but what if he didn't have that status and every law enforcement agency on the planet was out for his head?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Again?!  Seriously...Haven't they all died at least once?  Don't these "writers" have any better ideas?

Dana

[captmorgan72]

All this tells me is that sales must be low.

[Previsionary]

This storyline was teased several months ago. I'm kinda shocked it took so long to reach FR, heh. Anyway, this story is being penned by Jonathan Hickman. To question his writing ability after all the very well researched and solid books he's put out there is questionable to me. His Fan 4 run has really entertained those who still read it, and he's really making up for Mark Millar's blunders. He re-infused science and adventure into the book after it had been lacking those elements for years. Yes, he's made his mistakes here and there, but he is one of the few writers in Marvel's stable who takes the time to research and really put into effect the characters' history. If any of you have read any of his Fan 4 books, you'll note that he does actually utilize and reference their history quite often.

On the notion of a fan 4 member dying, I wish I could say I cared. They're just not characters I'm concerned about anymore, and I think Civil War was a major storyline that tainted them entirely. If I had to choose a character, I'd probably go for Reed because his arrogance is still out of control, he still ignores warnings from the people he cares about, and he's one of the only characters to get off easy during all these various events which he played a major part in creating.

all the classics are being replaced by "new characters". new cap, red hulk, red she-hulk, new hercules,....! 

When you make a comment like that for complaining purposes, it really helps to be accurate and to know what you're talking about, especially in regards to story. Bucky is STILL trying to prove himself as Cap and Steve is around helping him. Whether you like him or not, the story is being handled with care. By the by, you still have plenty of books with Steve as Cap in them (including Young Avengers) as compared to Bucky's 2 or 3. Red Hulk actually worked alongside Banner in a year long storyline that led to the return of Green Hulk. And guess which Hulk won the battle between them? Regardless, now that Jeff Parker has Red Hulk, he's a viable, somewhat interesting character even if a good portion of his book is now focused on the characters he beat up returning the favor. Who knows how that'll change once Bendis touches him. Red She-hulk isn't and never was Jen's replacement. Let's try Lyra... who worked with She-hulk and wanted to learn as much as she could from her mentor. Regardless Jenn, Lyra, and Betsy are all active right now. And finally, New Hercules... who's that? There was never a new Hercules. Amadeus only took over his title. Guess what Amadeus spent 4 issues doing? Searching for Hercules in order to bring him back. Guess who gave up his attained godhood to bring back Hercules in the most powerful incarnation he's been at in years? Amadeus "New Hercules" Cho. Hercules has been around and fighting for several months now. Soooo, not only was your complaint flawed, but the only classic that remains replaced is Steve... who is still all over the place and active.

[BlueBard]

I don't know... there are strong arguments for any of them getting whacked (at least as long as any comic book character gets).

If Reed dies: Sure you could get a few stories out of a vengeance angle, but otherwise, again, who would care?  The only good reason to kill him off is to 'fix' him.

If Sue dies:  One, people would care.  Two, it's another way to 'fix' Reed.  Or make him even creepier... like if he tried to replace her with a clone or something.

If Johnny dies:  Well, not sure who would care.  It would be one way to replace him altogether.

If Ben dies:  Everybody would care.  They already 'killed' Captain America... who else in the FF do you think Marvel could bump off and get that kind of a reaction from the public?

[BlueBard]

Again?!  Seriously...Haven't they all died at least once?  Don't these "writers" have any better ideas?

Dana

Having recently read the updated novelization of "The Death and Life of Superman" along with the commentary within, it seems to me that what they are striving for is the same goal:  To revitalize the franchise and make people realize that the characters are, after all, relevant and unreplaceable.  Shock value is part of it, of course, but not necessarily the main goal.  It's not enough to kill off a major character... you also have to take care how you bring them back.

Unfortunately, the more that success is mimicked the more it becomes nothing but a sad trope.  None of the FF have the same "splash" as Superman.  I wish them luck, but they need to find new ways to restore the FF to its' former glory.

[John Jr.]

Replace classic characters with new version can be done right. It worked with Hal Jordan, Barry Allen and Johnny Storm (all of them new versions of Golden Age characters), point is nothing is "forever" in comics. Even when the new character works, like Wally West as Flash and Kyle Rayner as GL, the older version will eventually come back, even if he "died".
Death in comics became a sick joke. We have a "big death" a month (Spidey is slated to "die" too), so who cares? We know they'll all come back in a nonsensical way...
The FF were one of the greatest comics of all time, but it lost its drive and I agree with Prev about how Civil War and some recent writers hurt the franchise more and more. So, Marvel is just trying to get reader's attention with an old trick. Quesada already made clear he doesn't believe in "bad publicity", so he must be happy we're discussing this. That's why I read so little comic books today.   

[GhostMachine]

I don't know... there are strong arguments for any of them getting whacked (at least as long as any comic book character gets).

If Reed dies: Sure you could get a few stories out of a vengeance angle, but otherwise, again, who would care?  The only good reason to kill him off is to 'fix' him.

If Sue dies:  One, people would care.  Two, it's another way to 'fix' Reed.  Or make him even creepier... like if he tried to replace her with a clone or something.

If Johnny dies:  Well, not sure who would care.  It would be one way to replace him altogether.

If Ben dies:  Everybody would care.  They already 'killed' Captain America... who else in the FF do you think Marvel could bump off and get that kind of a reaction from the public?

Reed and Ben have both been killed off before, though in Reed's case he wasn't really dead.

[herodad1]

yeah i might be complaining about things i know nothing about. i know nothing about most of the new guys but i do know the classic characters and killing them off isnt the answer.i remember when hulk was getting boring so instead of killing him they let him hop dimensions and those stories were cool.  instead of herc being punished on earth he was banished to space. silver surfer is way too powerful stuck on earth so he was freed and let loose to travel the spaceways. theres always a better way than just kill them. when the NEW guys start getting boring who do you thinks going to replace them? They will be replaced by the original classic characters. we ALL know its about the money anyway!

[steamteck]

Again?!  Seriously...Haven't they all died at least once?  Don't these "writers" have any better ideas?

Dana

Having recently read the updated novelization of "The Death and Life of Superman" along with the commentary within, it seems to me that what they are striving for is the same goal:  To revitalize the franchise and make people realize that the characters are, after all, relevant and unreplaceable.  Shock value is part of it, of course, but not necessarily the main goal.  It's not enough to kill off a major character... you also have to take care how you bring them back.

Unfortunately, the more that success is mimicked the more it becomes nothing but a sad trope.  None of the FF have the same "splash" as Superman.  I wish them luck, but they need to find new ways to restore the FF to its' former glory.

Intersting the death of Superman was what finally did it for me. I didn't pick a comic until again until I got into the Justice league cartoon and even them the lack of quality compared to the cartoon kept me  away for a long time. Even today I really can't find much with my favorite characters that matches up. When I find something that doesn't flat urine me off, it counts as a success

[herodad1]

thats how i also feel steamtech! the only book i subscribe to is Thor. i lost heart in comics. not the characters but the guys/gals in charge of them. maybe not kill them off but have them re-tire for awhile and let a new team take their places. if that happened...who would your team consist of?

[Marmeille]

Wouldn't Franklin's power kick back in big time if his mom or dad (or heck Johnny or Ben too) died? I mean the little guy is a freakin' reality altering tickin' time bomb, serioulsy.

My money is on Johnny or Sue and it better not be her, Reed and Ben already "died" previously so that would be redundant, although technically Reed didn't really die and Ben was dead for like 2 issues of a very silly story.

[daglob]

My opinion is that so, someone dies. They aren't real in the first place, and in a year or two another writer will come along and bring them back. Whether as a way to boost sales, or because the next guy wants to return the FF to it's glory days won't matter.

[detourne_me]

Two points here.
One, Prev you really hit the nail on the head. I've really been enjoying what I've read of Hickman's run (eight months old on the app store mind you) and I think the influx of new characters has been pretty solid so far.  Red Hulk was a fantastic character that got a lot of undeserved flak from fans that haven't read comics in years.  Actually, a lot of Lugarus suggestions were kind of coming into play, although Sue had become the voice for humanity, not Reed.

Two, Marmeille is completely right I believe. Isn't Franklin the reason why most main characters (anyone that's met him) never age, while other characters not currently within his reality altering bubble, (or time moat as Warren Ellis just wrote about in FreakAngels) like Stature have had a chance to grow?
Unfortunately I haven't seen what Hickman was doing with his future version of Franklin, but I really enjoyed the last run Millar had when he killed off Sue. Even though it was a future version, it was handled well and with respect.

[steamteck]

maybe you're right but I picked up the Red Hulk vs Thor and it was one of the ones that REALLY pisssed me off.

[Panther_Gunn]

Replace classic characters with new version can be done right. It worked with Hal Jordan, Barry Allen and Johnny Storm (all of them new versions of Golden Age characters)

While I mostly agree with the rest of your post (even if you did leave out Ray Palmer in that list  ), it really can't be used as a fair example to what's been going on in recent history.  All of those characters were introduced to, primarily, a new generation of comic readers after a very lengthy decline (if no outright cancellation) in super-hero comics in general, way more than what the anyone in the industry today can really compare with (last publication of Jay Garrick 1949, last JSA story 1951 -- Barry introduced 1956; last appearance of Human Torch/Namor 1954 -- FF introduced 1961....but I think I'm missing a major Marvel that started in '59).  Some characters did have a continuing presence (Superman, Batman, Green Arrow, Aquaman), but a lot didn't even have back-up stories or guest-star shots.  After that much time passing, with *far* less adults following comics then as opposed to now, it was the easiest thing to re-introduce new people/versions of old characters.

Since the Silver/Bronze age, I have to use way too many fingers to count how many characters have been ruined (not necessarily killed -- and killing a character doesn't necessarily ruin them....unless they've been brought back in a silly manner) just for the sake of "giving them depth", "modernizing/updating", "diversity" (whether actually stated or not), "making them relatable", or just plain "fixing" them -- usually due to previous bad writing.  The earliest example I can think of is poor Roy Harper -- first he gets to become a junkie, then all of what they put him through after he left & came back in The New Teen Titans.

Still, if they were to get rid of someone in the FF for good (when was the last time *that* happened), that is a "core character" that was seen in the movies, that *isn't* Willy Lumpkin, I'd have to say Johnny.  I think the loss of him would have the least impact, and would be the most easily replacable (what's the current status of the old android?).  But, again, Marm is right.....none of those four would ever stay dead as long as Franklin is around.

[Previsionary]

Jim Hammond is active right now, but he and Toro are busy with Invader stuff. If they kill off Johnny, they lose a bit of the comedy aspect, the kids lose an uncle the really bonded with, and Thing, once again, loses his sparring buddy. It would also explain why Spider-man would be so affected because the members Spidey is closest with are Johnny and Thing. On the other hand, it'll mean we'll get to stop seeing dumb Johnny whose major plot point is making mistakes and hooking up with loose women... when Marvel isn't playing up the Daken/Johnny angle.

[lugaru]

maybe not kill them off but have them re-tire for awhile and let a new team take their places. if that happened...who would your team consist of?

I would love to see a "Young Fantastic Four" book.

Lets see:

Amadeus Cho as a Reed Richards character. Inventions, strategy and always on crazy quests to other worlds.

Rockslide as a Ben Grim stand in... funny and always up for a good fight.

Firestar as a Johnny Storm and also as the oldest member (basically team Babysitter)

Hellion As Sue Storm, unless you can think of a better character. I dont know if 2 "New X-Men" is a bad mix.