Greg Land guessing game.

[BWPS]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=134443

EDIT: Oh right, I liked Astonishing X-Men, art and all. But this was funny and true.

[Podmark]

Ah Gred Land, probably the worst artist in comics. How does he land Uncanny X-Men? Surely blackmail is involved.

Still he is always good for a laugh.

[GhostMachine]

Greg Land is NOT an artist; he's a tracer. Big difference.

But if you do actually consider him an artist, I'd rate him as the only (known) artist than Rob Liefeld, and only because Liefeld actually draws his stuff from scratch.

Funny thing is, Land not only uses celebrities, but he apparently also uses adult and wrestling magazines. And he doesn't even use appropriate pictures to represent emotions, apparently. On that quiz, I guessed joy or pleasure on one of them, and the answer was fear!

[bearded]

hey! tetragene is the second poster on that, isn't he one of us?

and here is some ref for greg land:
http://jimsmash.blogspot.com/2008/06/more-greg-land-tracing.html

[cmdrkoenig67]

Ah Greg Land, probably the worst artist in comics. How does he land Uncanny X-Men? Surely blackmail is involved.

Still he is always good for a laugh.

I don't know if he's the worst...IMHO I think Liefeld (who has also traced) still leaves him in the dust in that category (and Rob probably gets paid way more too...I suddenly feel ill).

Dana

[Podmark]

I don't know if he's the worst...IMHO I think Liefeld (who has also traced) still leaves him in the dust in that category (and Rob probably gets paid way more too...I suddenly feel ill).

Dana

Might just be that I've read more Land illustrated books. I rarely have to see Liefeld's art.
Land drives me nuts though, especially the inconsistent looking characters. Oh or another good one is characters who don't look like his art style - this happens anytime he draws Rockslide in Uncanny.

[deano_ue]

land does not work as a sequential artist. i enjoy some of his work, but he should really stick to pin ups and covers

and as for photo reference there is bugger all wrong with using it, a lot of people think if you use it in any form it's cheating

[bearded]

photo reference seems ok, but he feels more like a kitbasher to me.

[JKCarrier]

and as for photo reference there is bugger all wrong with using it

Sure, but you have to use it intelligently. Land's stuff looks like he's pulling pictures at random off of Google, without any concern for consistency or appropriateness.

[daglob]

I remember when Warren magazines were filled with swipes from Burne Hogarth's Dynamic Art books... and there is a pose of the Black Panther in Captain America #113, and that swipe of Wally Wood's Spirit in Space... and Wally Wood had filing cabinets full of photo reference, and did a pin-up of Andor that was swiped from James Bama's Man of Bronze cover, and his cover of Needle was swiped from his own Spirit In Space cover (or the other way around)...

Every artist uses photo reference at one time or another. Every artist swipes from another artist at one time or another.

Please note the modifying phrase "at one time or another".

I don't read new comics much anymore, but from the number of examples I've seen of Land's copywork, he does it quite a bit more than "at one time or another". I learned to draw by tracing stuff and altering the costumes and stuff, and eventually started rendering things on my own because I couldn't always find the right poses. I guess Mr. Land has never outgrown that.

Then too, Shedon Moldorf filled his early Hawkman stories with swipes from Alex Raymond's Flash Gordon...

EDIT:
To clear up something: I'm pretty sure Moldorf didn't trace, he copied the art freehand. I don't remember where I saw all the exmaples from Hawkman and The Black Pirate alongside the Alex Raymond art, although The Black Pirate himself was based on Douglas Fairbanks Sr.

[lugaru]

land does not work as a sequential artist. i enjoy some of his work, but he should really stick to pin ups and covers

and as for photo reference there is bugger all wrong with using it, a lot of people think if you use it in any form it's cheating

I came here to play devils advocate too. I dont mind him using reference to make great covers and pin ups but his sequential work suffers a lot from this. Also... referencing illustration feels a lot more taboo to me and he does that a lot.

[cmdrkoenig67]

To tell you the truth...I really don't mind an artist using photo references, but his work comes across as outright tracings of photos and I feel that's just lazy.  Not to mention, whenever he draws females or males who are supposed to be shocked or scared...He draws (or traces) them looking like they are having "O" moments...That's just odd.

I personally, really dislike his artwork in general...He seems to have issues drawing action and his story-telling ability is highly questionable.  a lot of his work comes across to me, as posed pin-up shots (sort of like Lu says above)...Even when he's supposed to be telling a story.

Dana

[AfghanAnt]

I dont mind his covers but I hate his interiors.

[GoldenGladiator]

Just yesterday I was reading X-men tpbs Manifest Destiny and Sisterhood, and I thought I saw Storm in the exact same pose twice, but I just glossed over it in my head. I had never heard accusations of Land doing this before today, but now that I know I don't think I can look at anything he's the artist on the same way again. I just thought his art style was nice but a little weird when it came to emotions.

You've ruined X-men for me. 

[daglob]

Artists often do the same poses. Including Jack Kirby, Neal Adams, James Bama, Jim Steranko, Gil Kane (nostril shots), Steve Ditko, John Buscema, Carmine Infantino... it really is part of their style. Or, if you will, they have certain ways (tricks, techniques, poses) of solving problems in telling a story. Apparently, the difference between Land and the others is that he can't tell a story with his "style". If you can't move the action along and let the reader know what's going on, why were you hired in the first place?

Check out:

Mike Sekjowsky's early issues of the JLA, where all the group are arrayed in a long hortizontal panel.
As I said: Gil Kane nostril shots.
Jack Kirby outstretched hands.
Neal Adams outstretched hands.
Jack Kirby's (or Neal Adams' or Gil Kane's) Dramatic Poses.
The way EVERY SINGLE COMIC BOOK ARTIST draws people running.
Spiderman swinging by nearly every artist who has drawn him.
'Way too much stuff drawn by Rob Liefield
John Byrne's faces.
Wally Wood's facial expressions.
Chester Gould. Just everything.
John Buscema's half-turned figures.
Wayne Boring's running-as-he-flies Superman.


There are scores of other examples, but this is enough. The point is, this is either done so subtley or done with so many other techniques in between that they don't seem to make a difference. Collections do tend to exaggerate the problem. I'm reading Showcase Presents the Doom Patrol 2, and while I enjoy Bruno Premani art, there is a certain repetiveness to it.

[thanoson]

But there are no O faces to be seen with most artist. And the spines on some of the girls. Wow. He is definately up there with Leifeld in my book. Btw, saw this link years ago. When that guy was doing the Supreme Powers parody, I kinda saw it then.

[GhostMachine]

Artists swiping poses from other artists or using photo references (or even live models) are nothing new and are pretty much accepted practices.  But swipes (usually) and photo references aren't trace jobs.

What Land does should not be. Ever. Any fool with a pencil and a steady hand can trace, which is more or less what Land seems to be doing. He can't visually tell a story, since he can't seem to convey proper emotions or even make characters look the same from panel to panel. He's a tracer/copier, not an artist.

Can anyone point out a single panel of Land's art and honestly say for sure its 100% original work? I doubt it.....unless there's no people whatsoever in it.

Now, lets not forget there's someone out there who has done worse. David Mack and New Avengers #39 ring a bell? Mack actually traced work by Adam Hughes from Hughes' work on a Gen-13 2-issue mini-series and also copied art from Alex Maleev as well. Then tried to say he did it as a `tribute' when he was busted. When that happened, Marvel should have let him do issue #40 as well and made sure he didn't copy anyone, then cut checks for the artists he ripped off in #39 instead of one for him then suspended him from working for them for several months.

http://jimsmash.blogspot.com/2008/06/david-mack-loves-adam-hughes.html - there are two links in the article that show more of the art he ripped off, including what he copied from Maleev.

[lugaru]

I knew Mack was going to come up which is a shame since I consider Mack to be a total master, no clue why he did that huge swipe job (perhaps because he is not a superheroic illustrator) but it will haunt him. Still for every swipe he has pages and pages of stuff that is on Dave McKean level of awesomeness.

[tommyboy]

I knew Mack was going to come up which is a shame since I consider Mack to be a total master, no clue why he did that huge swipe job (perhaps because he is not a superheroic illustrator) but it will haunt him. Still for every swipe he has pages and pages of stuff that nobody has found what he swiped from yet.

fixed.

[lugaru]

I knew Mack was going to come up which is a shame since I consider Mack to be a total master, no clue why he did that huge swipe job (perhaps because he is not a superheroic illustrator) but it will haunt him. Still for every swipe he has pages and pages of stuff that nobody has found what he swiped from yet.

fixed.

I'm gonna be honest... by his last Kabuki book he swipes himself a lot (he composes in a way that certain images keep showing up again and again) but truth be told just in terms of color, mixed media, realistic anatomy, pacing and cartooning he is miles ahead of most comic artists today. What annoys me is that 90% of people just know him from threads like this, since he has not had that much mainstream work. 

A good place to start:
http://davidmackguide.com/portfolio/kabuki/previews/
Yeah, I'm a bit of a fanboy, whatever.

[tommyboy]

I knew Mack was going to come up which is a shame since I consider Mack to be a total master, no clue why he did that huge swipe job (perhaps because he is not a superheroic illustrator) but it will haunt him. Still for every swipe he has pages and pages of stuff that nobody has found what he swiped from yet.

fixed.

I'm gonna be honest... by his last Kabuki book he swipes himself a lot (he composes in a way that certain images keep showing up again and again) but truth be told just in terms of color, mixed media, realistic anatomy, pacing and cartooning he is miles ahead of most comic artists today. What annoys me is that 90% of people just know him from threads like this, since he has not had that much mainstream work. 

A good place to start:
http://davidmackguide.com/portfolio/kabuki/previews/
Yeah, I'm a bit of a fanboy, whatever.

See, my problem is this. His work in all the things you mention, colour, mixed media, realistic anatomy etc. look to me to be wholly derivative of the work of Sienkiewicz, McKean et al.
Now, I'm not saying nobody can or should use those techniques. People should, including Mack. It just bugs me a little when his work is sold by him or anyone else as "miles ahead of", when in actual fact, he is in every sense decades behind and completely in the debt of other artists. It's like saying someone who consciously apes Kirby's style is "ahead" of other artists. It's factually wrong, not a difference of opinion about the merits of the art. Sorry. Don't mean to attack your taste, or even to devalue Mack's art.
For what it's worth, I've liked some of Mack's art.
But just as I have little interest in seeing a competent Van Gogh imitator churn out "sunflowers" over and over, seeing Mack repeat what Sienkiewicz was doing in the last century leaves me cold most of the time.
All art is of course derivative to some extent, and debates about photo-referencing, tracing, or who developed what techniques are going to be rather pointless and sterile.
It comes down to how individuals receive the art. If you or I like it, however it was created it has worked. If we don't, then for us, subjectively, it has failed.
Again, some of Mack's art I've liked. He clearly has talent. But he's chosen to work in a style which makes him look "innovative" and "different" when in fact he is neither of those things.
In my opinion, of course..

[Spe-Dog]

I dont mind his covers but I hate his interiors.

Right on.  Did anyone see that x-Force splash page with the new line up...geez...shades of Liefeld...