The NEW wrestling thread

[thalaw2]

I like CM Punk a lot more in the Straight Edge Society gimmick.  IMO he was lame as a face. 

I never thought i would see the day Shawn Michaels retired.  At least he got to do it in style and with reasonably good health (from the outside).  I guess the Undertaker will retire in a couple of years too...

[GhostMachine]

Ed Leslie, aka Brutus Beefcake and several other names I'd rather not remember because they all stunk, pretty much owes his wrestling career to the fact he's friends with Hulk Hogan. In fact, I'm surprised he hasn't popped up in TNA already! I won't say he's completely talentless, though, because he was decent in multi-man and short (ie, minutes or less) matches, but he's not someone who should have been pushed in any way. Couldn't believe they actually put him in one of the Smackdown vs. RAW games as a Legend; they might as well have added Virgil!

CM Punk made his name in the indies before the WWE signed him - most notably in Ring of Honor. I haven't seen much of his pre-WWE ring work, but he cut some really good promos. And the current Straight Edge Society gimmick he's doing is more or less a rehash of something he did in RoH, just with more religious undertones added.

Punk had his moments as a face, but he's miles better as a heel. He was better as a face in ECWWE than he was as a face on RAW.

My only real gripe with Punk himself (I hate how he was used after he won the title after cashing in the MITB case, but that's the WWE's fault, not his) is that in the WWE he's used finishers taken from Japanese wrestlers without even bothering to change their names! The Anaconda Vice was used by Hiroyoshi Tenzan (who made some appearances in WCW). The GTS, aka Go 2 Sleep, by KENTA.

(Couldn't use his pre-WWE finisher, because it was a Pedigree off the top rope, and would've had to have been renamed even if Triple-H wasn't around and he could have used it. Because it was called `The Pepsi Plunge')

[thalaw2]

What's with all the Beefcake hate? haha!  When i was young I thought he was cool.  I haven't seen any of his work since his face injury (or whatever) more than a decade ago.  I thought it was pretty funny that he would go out and cut up hair after the sleeper...and wasn't he in the Hulk Hogan cartoon?  That's certainly worth of legendary status.  WWE is all about being ridiculous.

[thanoson]

Ahh.... Ed "That's my coke not anthrax" Leslie. He's horrible. I too am suprised he's not in TNA. Oh, thank god the Nasties are gone from there. Every time Knobbs came to the ring I got winded.

[thalaw2]

I would love to see Croft and Beretta...gone!  They have good moves, but the gimmick sucks!   And they really have no chance of being all the great in as a tag team against a well put to gether team......they aint the Rockers!

[Mr. Hamrick]

CM Punk is one of those guys who is okay at best as a face.  As a heel, he is golden.  Some guys in the business are that way, I've noticed.  They can do face or heel but not both.  Punk is a bit of a jerk in real life from what I have seen and heard so being a heel in the ring is not a big stretch for him.

As for Croft and Baretta, if there were more decent teams in the WWE, I wouldn't mind them staying around as a jobber tag team.

[BWPS]

CM Punk is one of those guys who is okay at best as a face.  As a heel, he is golden.  Some guys in the business are that way, I've noticed.  They can do face or heel but not both.  Punk is a bit of a jerk in real life from what I have seen and heard so being a heel in the ring is not a big stretch for him.

Yeah. A friend of mine saw him at a diner after an event he went to say hi and he said something really rude and blew him off. I've rarely heard of any wrestler, no matter how horrible of a person they are in the ring (which I love), who is really not appreciative of their fan base (though this friend wasn't really a fan. Likely because CM is just ten kinds of lame).

[GhostMachine]

You know who should never, eh-eh-eh-EVER (yes, I'm channelling old school Chris Jericho) turn face again?

Randy Orton. He was absolutely boring last time he was a face and his microphone delivery style just screams `jerk'. Plus, he looks like one.

Croft and Baretta beng around just points out what's wrong with the WWE; they don't have enough pure tag teams, and now with Cryme Tyme apparently being split up, there's one less. I can't even remember the last pure tag team to hold the tag titles, unified or otherwise, unless you count DX.

[Mr. Hamrick]

CM Punk is one of those guys who is okay at best as a face.  As a heel, he is golden.  Some guys in the business are that way, I've noticed.  They can do face or heel but not both.  Punk is a bit of a jerk in real life from what I have seen and heard so being a heel in the ring is not a big stretch for him.

Yeah. A friend of mine saw him at a diner after an event he went to say hi and he said something really rude and blew him off. I've rarely heard of any wrestler, no matter how horrible of a person they are in the ring (which I love), who is really not appreciative of their fan base (though this friend wasn't really a fan. Likely because CM is just ten kinds of lame).

Well, in Punk's defense, though not much... even the nicest guys are prone to being a bit prickly when approached while they are eating.  Especially when it's an after match meal.  Punk's problem is that he is a hypocrite about a few things and that hypocrisy shows through in the way he deals with most fans.  As for his fan base, about half of his "fan base" are smarks (or smart marks) or think they are smarter to the business than they really are.  And those fans tend to annoy a lot of the boys (and the girls on the indy scene) anyways.

As for Orton, I think his current "face run" has some promise.  The biggest reason is that he really hasn't "turned face" but has been put in a situation where he is being cheered for against people the fans dislike more.  It's the same situation that turned The Freebirds face in the 80s.  I'm willing to give that sort of thing a chance.  I'll go as far as to say its the kind of face turn I enjoy out of heel the most.

Tag Team wrestling has not been taken seriously in the WWE in years.  I thought that was a given.  It's like saying that the Women's Division has never been taken seriously period.  They are halfway trying but they are not really being that serious about it.

[Xenolith]

I don't follow wrestling any more, but every once in a while I read something online to catch up on the news.  Anyway, I've read quotes from Stephanie McMahon-Triple H that stated the WWE sees no value in tag teams from a story telling perspective.

[Mr. Hamrick]

I don't follow wrestling any more, but every once in a while I read something online to catch up on the news.  Anyway, I've read quotes from Stephanie McMahon-Triple H that stated the WWE sees no value in tag teams from a story telling perspective.

There's a lot of things that the WWE see no value in that even a blind person would recognize. 

[thalaw2]

The script for WWE tag teams is basically the same anyway...just as it is for most tag team matches. 

The WWE NXT needs to be taken off the air....It as much a reality show as Joe Schmo (which I actually liked because it was so opposite), but far less effective.  I wouldn't be surprised if the audience is told in advance that it's just a scripted TV show and that they are paid to go...just like a Hollywood TV show.

[Mr. Hamrick]

The script for WWE tag teams is basically the same anyway...just as it is for most tag team matches. 

The WWE NXT needs to be taken off the air....It as much a reality show as Joe Schmo (which I actually liked because it was so opposite), but far less effective.  I wouldn't be surprised if the audience is told in advance that it's just a scripted TV show and that they are paid to go...just like a Hollywood TV show.

The thing with NXT is that I think a few of those guys actually won't make it to the main roster. (Tarver, Slater and Young)  However, there are a few who obviously will make it regardless of the outcome of the show. (Bryan, Barrett and Otunga)  Gabriel and Sheffield could go either way.

Either way, the show is there to get over new talent and get them exposure. in that regards, it works.

[GhostMachine]

NXT is okay for what it is. Granted, I haven't watched it much, though. However, its painfully clear from him guest hosting RAW that Otunga needs to work on his mic skills a bit more.

I don't watch the WWE or TNA for wrestling as much as I do to see what kind of trainwreck will happen (TNA and WWE) and who will be given a badly done push (WWE). If I want to watch actual wrestling, I download matches from Japan. (And Japanese women wrestlers blow American women wrestlers out of the water; unfortunately Joshi (Japanese women's wrestling) is in a bad decline at the moment.)

If anyone wants to know where I download matches from, PM me. Its all legal, because its mostly Japanese wrestling, including Joshi (with some lucha; has some American stuff, but its mostly from defunct organizations - someone's been posting some WOW, which was a really lame women's fed, for instance) and they don't allow anything commercially available to be posted, so no TNA, WWE, RoH, Chikara, WCW, PWG, etc, since they sell DVDs. They also post wrestling themes to download. Its a message board, and you have to register and be logged in to even see the section with downloads.

[thanoson]

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! They released Mickie James. Those bastards! Why god why?

[GhostMachine]

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! They released Mickie James. Those bastards! Why god why?

Because it was a `last straw' situation. Her being moved to Smackdown was punishment for something, and on the European tour they did she kept showing up late for the bus. That was it, and she got canned.

However, I'm more disappointed that they released Katie Lea and Shelton Benjamin. (Slam Master J, Funaki and Jimmy Yang also got the ax)

[thanoson]

Mike Knox too. Still, she was one of the only pure wrestlers they have. Beth Phoenix being the last of the good ones they have. Gail Kim has lost something since coming back. She would have been better off staying in TNA. At least there she wouldn't be buried. McCool is horrible as well as that Alicia Fox. She looks so forced in everything she does. sigh

[Mr. Hamrick]

I am not surprised on the releases at all with the exception of Funaki.  I figured if anything, he'd be given some sort of backstage job offer.  Maybe he was and didn't take it.  

Mickie James has been prepping for some sort of music career in recent months.  This has been pretty public knowledge.  I think its a similar situation to Jericho leaving to tour with Fozzy with they expected her to ask for the release so they gave it beforehand.

Katie Lea hasn't been used for anything since they signed her.

Natalya and Gail can both wrestle as well.  Neither have been allowed to show this.  Same goes for Melina and Jillian, though neither of them were all that "great".  Melina is often her own worst enemy sometimes, though.  
I'm no fan of Alicia Fox or McCool.  However, I think Eve, Kelly, and Maryse have become relatively competent with the "WWE style".  In a similar way that Trish Stratus developed slowly.  

Yang and Slam Masta J both are no surprised.  Neither have been much more than jobbers for MONTHS!  I suspect they will be both snatched up by ROH or TNA pretty soon. 

Yang has already said as much.  It was also implied that his being let go might have been due to wellness policy violations.  This was on his Twitter account.

?3 strike and your out i hear florida is a nice place to visit.?

The problem with Shelton is that both he and Haas wanted out of there.  They both wanted to jump to TNA and join up with Angle.  Don't tell me that Angle's break from TNA will not capitalize on this if at all possible.  So, I am not surprised really to see him leave.

Mike Knox was pretty much worthless.  You had a big guy with no charisma, a jobber gimmick, and arguably limited talent.  He was horrid to watch in DSW and not fun to watch when he was called up either.

[GhostMachine]

I saw enough of Mike Knox in DSW to know that they made a huge mistake when they called him up to ECW as a solo wrestler. He was way too green and not too talented, but a decent enough tag team wrestler. And Knox is one of the wrestlers I was hoping would be released.

Katie Lea was used sparingly on RAW since they broke her and Paul Burchill up. I think she only wrestled in multi-women matches when she actually was used, but I think she's nice looking and I've heard she's actually a decent wrestler.

Gail Kim was fairly lousy when she was first in the WWE (and I think them making her a heel was a big mistake); she had to go to TNA to prove she could actually wrestle. Too bad the WWE won't really let her. Jillian is pretty good, too, but she needs a decent gimmick if she wants to be taken seriously.

Melina I believe is too injury prone. When she returns she needs to prove otherwise before they consider putting a title on her. I think they should see if she can stay off the DL at least a year!

Michelle McCool is THE Diva left that I'd fire in a heartbeat if I was in charge. Its a crime she's been pushed, and that's probably due to her relationship with Undertaker, if the stories are true. She's jobber material at best. The only reason I'd dump her over Layla is because at least Layla is hot! (McCool is facially attractive, but she's too skinny, and Layla is better on the mic)

Alicia Fox is watchable, but she's not championship material. She comes off as just barely above catfighting skills at times.

I'd say the three best female wrestlers on the roster now that Mickie is gone (and I'm not saying she was or wasn't the best), are Beth Phoenix, Gail Kim and Natalya, but unfortunately they haven't let Natalya wrestle much, if any. Eve, Maryse and Kelly have become pretty darn good wrestlers, and you have to remember that Trish didn't start out as a wrestler, either, so they could very well become almost as good someday. (I really hope Maryse turns face someday)

[Cyber Burn]

I have to say that I'm really disappointed in the poor and insufficient usage if the female stable in the WWE. I'm wouldn't mind seeing if the women could pull their weight in a show of their own. Maybe replace NXT with the women of WWE. I'm kind of getting bored watching the Gimmicky multi-women matches. I'd like to see the women get their fair share of the spotlight and to have them really have the opportunity to develop as actual wrestlers.

[GhostMachine]

Tonight was the annual WWE draft. I'm happy about some changes, but others....meh.

Spoiler

First of all, new Unified Tag Team champions! Miz kept writing checks with his mouth that his body couldn't cash, and ShowMiz lost the titles to the Hart Dynasty (Hart Attack + Sharpshooter on Miz by Tyson Kidd). Big Show nailed the KO Punch on Miz afterward.

To RAW:

John Morrison - Absolutely thrilled with this pick. I'm betting we get a feud between him and the Miz fairly soon.

R-Truth - Couldn't care either way. Last time I cared about him in the WWE, he was called K-Kwik and was teaming with Road Dogg!

Edge - Was happy about this pick at first, but he *may* have turned heel at the end of RAW. I like Edge, but am sick to freaking death of him as a heel, and would like to see Edge vs. Sheamus. Plus RAW needs a main event face more than it does a heel, with Triple H out of action. (He's taking some time off, which is why they did the injury angle at the PPV)

Chris Jericho - BAD idea. This means that the Edge/Jericho feud might continue on RAW, if we don't get an Edge/Orton one. But at least it means there's little chance of a JeriShow reunion (see the `To Smackdown' list).

To Smackdown:

Kelly Kelly - At least it wasn't Gail Kim. If they had moved her, they might as well shut down the entire RAW women's division.

Big Show - Good move, if they make him back into a singles wrestler. Unless they re-unite him and Kane as a team, I'm not interested in seeing him as a tag team wrestler again for a while.

Kofi Kingston - EXCELLENT move. Kofi's been wasted on RAW since his push stopped.

Christian - EXCELLENT move, as well. I think Christian will fit in better on SD. (Saw this coming when Edge got drafted, because I didn't think they'd have them both on the same brand)

Of course, there will be a `supplemental draft', so that's not all the moves that will be happening. I just hope Drew McIntyre, Michelle McCool and Vickie Guerrero all stay put on Smackdown, and either JTG or Shad goes to RAW.

3 of RAW's 5 picks came from a 5 on 5 team battle royal, so Smackdown actually won the most matches, but two of those wins really weren't clean (interference in one and Maryse being selfish as usual costing her).

Main event stunk huge! And gee goody, we're going to get Batista vs. Cena for the title again, thanks to Edge coming in and spearing Orton! *yawn* (Batista is supposedly on his way out, unless he's signed a new contract, so I bet either Cena gets a decisive victory or Sheamus puts Batista on the shelf next so the match doesn't happen.)

No guest host tonight; Cena was the closest thing to a guest host.

*edit* Supplemental draft results:

Spoiler

Rosa Mendes to Smackdown
Hornswoggle to Smackdown
Goldust to RAW
Ezekiel Jackson to RAW
Chris Masters to Smackdown
Natalya to RAW
Cody Rhodes to Smackdown
Chavo to Smackdown
The Great Khali to RAW
The Hart Dynasty to RAW
MVP to Smackdown

Glad Natalya and the Hart Dynasty are now on RAW (maybe now Natalya will get to wrestle!), but am not happy at all they're moving Ezekiel Jackson to RAW. (WHY do they move injured wrestlers, anyway?)

Happy as sin that Hornswoggle is getting off my tv, since I don't watch Smackdown much (Might change when the show moves to SyFy, because there's no way it stays on Friday nights). But I wish they had moved Carlito there, too.

[thalaw2]

Big Zeke was injured?!?!  Oh no!  No wonder I hadn't seen him.  The Book of Ezekiel is my favorite finisher (by name not execution). 

I'm thinking hooded guy helping Punk is The "A" list David Otunga, but I guess most of you already know that...I'm slow. 

[GhostMachine]

1. Ezekiel Jackson was injured on the European tour at a house show in Scotland earlier this month. He tore one of his quadriceps in a match with Kane. And since he's projected to be out six months, it didn't make sense to have him be drafted, because by the time he returns people would've forgotten which brand he was with anyway.

2. The hooded man helping the SES isn't David Otunga, according to what I've read. Its actually an ex-tag team wrestler who was released a long time ago making his return to the company -

Spoiler

Joey Mercury

.

[Mr. Hamrick]

2. The hooded man helping the SES isn't David Otunga, according to what I've read. Its actually an ex-tag team wrestler who was released a long time ago making his return to the company -

Spoiler

Joey Mercury

.

There is another guy that was mentioned in the "hooded mystery man" thing and that was a developmental guy who I believe is named "Alex Price" or something like that.  It was mentioned that he was at the PPV dressed about the same way that the hooded guy was and has his head buzzed too.

I wager it's Mercury, though.

However, could go with the ultimate swerve and have it be Darren Young.

[thalaw2]

I guess it would make too much sense story wise for it to be Otunga...seeing as how when he hosted RAW he screwed Cena to get in good with the Miz.  Punk is a pro/judge too so it seems logical (at least to me) that you would go after his vote too.

[GhostMachine]

Apparently Orton's shoulder wasn't injured at Over The Limit. He actually hurt it during a tag match at a house show a day or two before, and the match at OTL just made it worse. And apparently he still has somewhat of an attitude problem, because he threw a tantrum in the locker room after the match.

And it seems we dodged a bullet. Jack Swagger wasn't the original choice to win the World Heavyweight championship. Seems the wrestler they planned to give it to instead has a bit of an attitude/ego problem.

The wrestler I'm referring to? Drew McIntyre.

And I don't care about NXT anymore. Of the 3 left, the only one I care about is Wade Barrett, but I have a horrible feeling David Otunga is going to win.

[thalaw2]

I don't really care for any of the NXT wrestlers.  At least of DO wins he might get his wife to come sing the national anthem.  I like her sangin'

[ubergreendragon]

Seen on this weeks Smackdown that the Undertaker was found in a vegatative state by his "brother" Kane and will never be back ...which im sure its just to work a storyline for his return after he recovers from his broken nose, concussion, and some occular bone that was broken accidentally during his match last week with Rey Mysterio. Seems alot of the top talent are injured latley

[Ares_God_of_War]

I still think they should have put Kane in the match instead of Mysterio since he is the one that caused the injury to taker and if I remember correctly he is still fighting about money and wants to take some time off.

[GhostMachine]

I still think they should have put Kane in the match instead of Mysterio since he is the one that caused the injury to taker and if I remember correctly he is still fighting about money and wants to take some time off.

Kane replacing `Taker would have made more sense except for the fact he's more or less a midcarder now and Mysterio isn't.

As for the angle....who stole the urn this time?