kinda scary

[Mr. Hamrick]

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/movie-talk-twitter-campaign-wants-community-actor-to-be-first-non-white-spider-man.html

not so much the actual subject but the idea of social media being used to be that much of an influence on casting.

[Previsionary]

you mean the media + social sites haven't had much power before? Wasn't it just a month ago that Betty White got on SNL purely off public demand alone? Of course it doesn't always translate, but the power of social sites has been in our faces and active for years. That's why we have Youtube and Myspace stars all around... and yes, those have translated into TV shows and casting decisions before this year. Most of them didn't last long however (or thankfully).

[yell0w_lantern]

Next thing you know, they'll cast Ryan Reynolds as Hal Jordan.

[Mr. Hamrick]

you mean the media + social sites haven't had much power before? Wasn't it just a month ago that Betty White got on SNL purely off public demand alone? Of course it doesn't always translate, but the power of social sites has been in our faces and active for years. That's why we have Youtube and Myspace stars all around... and yes, those have translated into TV shows and casting decisions before this year. Most of them didn't last long however (or thankfully).

While I loved the results of the campaign to get Betty White on SNL, a couple of things should be noted:

1) She didn't actively join the campaign.  She didn't push it.  In fact, she was completely unaware about it till it was brought up in an interview.  This guy is actively pushing the campaign.

2) Betty White has a few emmy and Golden Globe nominations (and I think a win or two) not to mention a proven track record as a comedic actress.

3) Wasn't a huge fan of the campaign itself.  But there is a huge difference between hosting a show like SNL and a lead role in a feature that is sure to be pushed as a summer blockbuster.

As for the power of social sites, not to mention the "You Tube" and "Myspace" stars, you said yourself that most of them didn't last long.  "You Tube" is great for posting demo reels.  It's not a replacement for auditions or for casting decisions.  And twitter most certain is not a replacement for casting decisions.  That said, what began as a minor annoyance and at times a fluke as become as much of a potential blackmark on films and tv as the careers of Paris Hilton, Carrot Top, and those of Heidi Montag and Spenser Pratt.

[Previsionary]

The length of their stay wasn't the point; the pertinent statement is that these tools have been affecting Hollywood for years to the point that youtube stars HAVE been cast into movies, tv shows, and have actually made it onto the production side of the table from their myspace, youtube, facebook, and now twitter promotion alone. Heck, that Fred kid has a music video and a TV movie being made after his character, right? So twitter being used in this way to make something that is not very likely to happen on its own come into fruition is not surprising to me.

With that said, if Danny, who I like, wants to play Spider-man, it'll only be in a very altered adaptation (see: Superhero Movie). Not many fans are fond of main characters going through racial changes just because. It reeks of pandering. It'd be the same as Steel (superman series) being played by an Asian guy, Thor being played by an Indian, or Static (which I think Danny would be good for) or Luke Cage being played by a British white guy. It just makes you think, "why use this as a source if you're just going to do what you please anyway?"

As a random fun thing just to get his name out there, I don't particularly care one way or another. I'd probably go with him over some of the other names I've heard over the past few months.

[BWPS]

If they're going to reboot it instead of sticking with a good thing. Donald Glover is the way to go. He's hella funny. If we could get the whole cast of Community to play the characters, Ahbed as Harry, Britta as Felicia/Black Cat, Annie as Mary Jane, villains could be Chevy Chase as Vulture, and Joel McHale as Wolverine.

[Flying_Fox]

Why does Spidey have to be played by a white guy? Well, mostly because Spidey IS a white guy...

Imagine the uproar if they tried to cast a white dude as Luke Cage or Blade or Black Panther!

[Talavar]

Why does Spidey have to be played by a white guy? Well, mostly because Spidey IS a white guy...

Imagine the uproar if they tried to cast a white dude as Luke Cage or Blade or Black Panther!

It's a false comparison, because most minority characters in comics have their ethnicity as an intrinsic part of their character.  Let's look at Luke Cage - a white defender of Harlem - what is still perceived as a 'black' neighbourhood?  That'd go over well.  Black Panther, the king of an African kingdom that was never colonized by Europe - that'd be odd.  Now Blade is about the only minority superhero that could work if he was white - there's nothing specific to his character that would really change if he was a different ethnicity.  And what is it about the character of Spider-man that changes if he is black?  Nothing. 

[pr1983]

except the character himself. i'm not talking about spider-man, i'm talking about peter parker. if they want a black spidey, then by all means do so, just not peter parker imo. that glover guy is pretty funny from what i've seen watching community, and wouldnt be against him appearing as a spider-man.

i don't believe that being defined (even to a small extent) by your ethnicity is a pre-requisite for being the only reason you should keep it when being translated.

[yell0w_lantern]

Why does Spidey have to be played by a white guy? Well, mostly because Spidey IS a white guy...

Imagine the uproar if they tried to cast a white dude as Luke Cage or Blade or Black Panther!

It's a false comparison, because most minority characters in comics have their ethnicity as an intrinsic part of their character.  Let's look at Luke Cage - a white defender of Harlem - what is still perceived as a 'black' neighbourhood?  That'd go over well.  Black Panther, the king of an African kingdom that was never colonized by Europe - that'd be odd.  Now Blade is about the only minority superhero that could work if he was white - there's nothing specific to his character that would really change if he was a different ethnicity.  And what is it about the character of Spider-man that changes if he is black?  Nothing. 

So what you're saying is that there are two sets of standards?

[Talavar]

except the character himself. i'm not talking about spider-man, i'm talking about peter parker. if they want a black spidey, then by all means do so, just not peter parker imo. that glover guy is pretty funny from what i've seen watching community, and wouldnt be against him appearing as a spider-man.

i don't believe that being defined (even to a small extent) by your ethnicity is a pre-requisite for being the only reason you should keep it when being translated.

But what about Peter Parker requires that he's white, except that they drew him that way originally?  He's from Queens, a very diverse part of New York, he's a nerd, he's from a lower middle class background - none of these things are impacted by his ethnicity.

Why does Spidey have to be played by a white guy? Well, mostly because Spidey IS a white guy...

Imagine the uproar if they tried to cast a white dude as Luke Cage or Blade or Black Panther!

It's a false comparison, because most minority characters in comics have their ethnicity as an intrinsic part of their character.  Let's look at Luke Cage - a white defender of Harlem - what is still perceived as a 'black' neighbourhood?  That'd go over well.  Black Panther, the king of an African kingdom that was never colonized by Europe - that'd be odd.  Now Blade is about the only minority superhero that could work if he was white - there's nothing specific to his character that would really change if he was a different ethnicity.  And what is it about the character of Spider-man that changes if he is black?  Nothing. 

So what you're saying is that there are two sets of standards?

Yes, though not based on ethnicity, but on character.  Luke Cage and Black Panther have their ethnicity as a major part of their backstory.  Blade doesn't.  Spider-man doesn't.  That's not saying people wouldn't go nuts if a white guy was cast as Blade, but having a look around the internet, people are going pretty nuts based on a black actor just wanting to be cast as Spider-man.

There are white characters whose ethnicity factors in to their character, and changing it would require major changes to the character, but they're few and far between because white male is the default setting in most superhero comics.  There are some notable exceptions, but most characters who are a different ethnicity than white have that ethnicity as a major character point, let alone the ones who are basically a Super Caricature for their ethnic background.

[docdelorean88]

If it happens, i doubt it would go over well in the box office. Hes a fantastic actor, i just can't see it being pushed through if only for the fan reactions.

[Previsionary]

Tal, I think you have some good points, but, imo of course, if Spidey was made black or any other race, that'd change the character completely, usually to fit a certain demographic or stereotype. So Spidey being white is intricately tied into his character (and not just because he was written that way or the time period he was created). It may not seem that way, but I think it's fairly obvious that it is. All we have to do is go through history and look at what happened whenever a what-if story happened where a white character became a completely difference race. Heck, Nick Fury is a perfect example of what happens when a character goes through a race change. Nick became "cooler," more hard edged, and even had elements of African American history implemented into his very development.

random:

Spoiler

[BWPS]

See, the old movies just weren't funny enough. Spider-Man is better when he's funny. In the comics, he isn't done justice because comic book writers have terrible senses of humor and just try to channel Stan Lee and fail miserably. The movie just cast the wrong guy as Spider-Man and really none of them had very good scripts (though everything else more than made up for that). If they're dumb enough not to give Sam Raimi what he wants for a guaranteed success, do the one thing he never did right: humor. Make it an action comedy. It's doomed to fail as a teen budget-superhero movie for the Glee crowd or whatever the hell they have planned now. It'd just be so funny with Donald Glover, he may not have much experience in serious drama, but he's hilarious and he's a black nerd. Though obviously it shouldn't go to over-the-top comedy and end up something like Superhero Movie, which was really funny though no one believes me, but definitely not what Spider-Man should be. Of course, Drake Bell is hilarious too, he'd make a good Peter Parker. Though unfortunately it'd be near-impossible to believe he was unpopular in high school because he's so handsome and likable.

[BlueBard]

We should peel off the discussion about Peter Parker as a black man into a different thread.  It's a different conversation frought with all kinds of landmines and it's liable to change the topic.  Other than a certain visceral reaction to such a dramatic change in one of my childhood heroes, I can't honestly say that Spider-Man couldn't have worked as a black man.  (I think the cultural change that would entail is being understated, though.)

I would side with Hamrick about the potentially unwelcome aspects of social media's influence on the entertainment industry.  I can see why it would be unsettling.  Filmmaking is still very much an art form and ideally it needs to be free to create.  It's not all about marketing and not everyone is in it for the money.

If this campaign succeeded, it wouldn't necessarily be because it was a good creative direction.  It would be a politically-forced decision based on marketing to a limited demographic and it could have a dramatic negative impact on how movies get developed.

Furthermore, our society is extremely media-centric in an unhealthy way.  "If the media says it, it must be right."  As special-interest groups gain influence through the media, they work to control how information is presented and try to impose their own worldviews on everyone else.  If you don't bow to that worldview, you are labeled as intolerant or bigoted or ignorant.  Nobody wants to be labeled like that, and the label itself is a negative influence.

So if I have issues with a black man playing Peter Parker, for example, it's because "I'm a bigot" and has nothing to do with my geeky obsession with continuity or the nostalgic image I hold in my brain of who Peter is or my respect for the character's history.  The issues get oversimplified and manipulated for someone else's ends.

That is not a good environment for fostering freedom of creative vision.