DC Extended Universe

[Silver Shocker]

^ Yeah, I think a lot of people found Justice League (or at least the final released version of Justice League) generic and lifeless. Flash actually went over well in my viewing group though. Ezra Miller seemed to be the only one in the cast who seemed to be having much fun (well except maybe for Mamoa)

In any case, yeah, Justice League was kinda the bare minimum of a film. On the other hand, I actually do lament that the "Snyder Cut" never saw the light of say. The version I've heard described (most notably on Kevin Smith's podcast) had SO much more stuff in it that by default it would have had to have been better (it also probably would have had to have been at least a half hour longer). Not saying it would have been GOOD mind you, but it did sound better and a lady in the audience at the podcast filming said she was in a test audience for an earlier cut of the movie that she said was better.

Here's a list of stuff that was allegedly in the "Snyder cut":

Spoiler

-A scene of Flash saving Iris West from a car accident. We see part of this scene in the trailer with him navigating broken glass.
-The flashback with the Wonder Woman characters and the Green Lantern originally had dialogue from all of those characters, including the GL.
-We see a flashback of Cyborg getting into the car accident that resulted in him becoming Cyborg.
-Steppenwolf talking to the Mother Box and plotting to overthrow Darkseid.
-An additional scene setting up Aquaman, including an appearance by Willem Defoe as Vulko and namedropping Orm/Ocean Master
-Superman being revived because Steppenwolf wanted to do it first (aka evil Superman) and the JL wanted to beat him to the punch.
-Superman could only be revived because he had the Codex from Man of Steel in his body.
-Some more callbacks to Man of Steel on the Kent Farm after Superman came back to life, including another Kevin Costner cameo. Supposedly this sequence would have ended with Superman learning to not be so mopey and smile more and it would have put forward the "real" Superman we all know and love. As opposed to the Whedon cut that bizarrely acted like the real Superman was there all along and he was smiling and filming selfies with citizens and stuff, which was bizarrely inconsistent.
-Deathstroke breaks Lex Luthor out of prison, right in the middle of the movie! (As Kevin Smith put it: Why the *&^% would you cut that out?) I always wondered how exactly Lex broke out in the finished film, presumably that shot of the body double was a last minute addition since this sequence wasn't going to make it in.
-Batman is regretful for his more violent actions in BVS, and was going to sacrifice himself during the battle at the end of the movie and lose his life to atone for his actions. Wonder Woman convinces him not to do and saves him at the last minute.
-The nightmare from BVS came up again.
-We see Darkseid in the film. This one got a lot of traction online, with leaked concept art and whatnot. Allegedly the CGI wasn't even close to done so the chances of ever actually seeing him in the film was low.
-A sequel tag for the famed "pt 2" where Darkseid wanted to meet "The Kryptonian". Steppenwolf would have teleported back to Apocalypse where Darkseid would have killed him for his failure.
-Cyborg would have died in the final battle! His body would have been recovered, and put in the Batcave to be repaired i.e. brought back to life in a later film.
-A scene right at the end where some of the Green Lantern Corp show up to warn Batman about a coming threat, apparently to set up part 2.

So yeah, as Kevin Smith put it, if nothing else, the so-called "Sydner cut" at least would have felt like "One complete vision" with more callbacks to the earlier movies. However, the same tone, color palate, director ect would still be there so a good movie wasn't guaranteed. Plus it had the same problem BVS had: setting up too many movies within the same flick. Flash, Aquaman, The Batman (since that's where Deathstroke was supposed to pop up), a Justice League 2 and presumably a Green Lantern flick would have been all set up here.

In any case, back to Aquaman:

Aquaman is apparently a big hit overseas and in China! Yay?

DC/WB is apparently already talking sequel. Honestly, I'm not sure if I'm happy about this or not. On the one hand, I think I'm glad it hasn't bombed since they clearly spent a metric boatload of money on it, and it has apparently gotten surprisingly good reviews, on the other hand, I'm not planning to see the film in theaters and I don't know if they should make more movies with this doofus version of Aquaman.

In any case, the American movie industry likes to make movies (and sequels in some cases, such as Pacific Rim: Uprising and Transformers: Age of Extinction) more appealing to China by casting more Chinese actors in the film (Skyscraper was a good example of this, as was the aforementioned TF 4 where the entire final act took place in China) so if there is an Aquaman 2 expect to see some more Chinese faces in the cast for those wanting to see more diversity in it.

[detourne_me]

I just saw Aquaman last night, and the theatre wasnt even half full here in Seoul. It was packed for Spider-Man though, but maybe because I saw Spider-Man on the weekend and Aquaman on a Wednesday evening.
The movie (Aquaman) was ridiculous, but in a good way. Probably the most fun live action DC movie since Batman Forever.

[Silver Shocker]

You know I really liked Batman Forever when I was a kid. I haven't seen it since I was a kid, so I don't know first hand if I would find it worse with adult eyes. I knew at the time that Batman and Robin was bad though.

Yeah, I've heard a few reviewers say that it's over the top in an enjoyable way.

[Incredible Bulk]

Just saw Aquaman. I saw in mexico cause i get VIP seating with waiters who bring your food for only $5 for extra wide recliner seat. And i like it. No spoilers but i liked it

[BentonGrey]

Haha, DM, you're not exactly filling me with confidence.

My resolve has actually weakened a bit because the movie looks so freaking close to perfect, however overstuffed it may be.  But alas.

[detourne_me]

I will say that the costumes are pretty much perfect. Some of the best costumes adapted to movies to date. Maybe only Christopher Reeves was better.

[Silver Shocker]

Well, one thing the superhero movie and tv industry has gotten mostly better about over the years is realizing that all us nerds actually like it when the characters look like the characters from the cartoons, comics and video games. We've come a long way since 2000's X-Men made that into a joke to justify the black costumes "You actually go around in this things?" "What would you prefer? Yellow spandex?" Now, the big stigma was always "they'll look silly" so..well, yeah (YEAH!) Aquaman, that was going to be silly no matter what (I've heard it interrupts an important duel just long enough to show you that the war drums are being played by an octopus, which totally sounds like my jam). Even with the initially "barbarian" take on Aquaman (he did play a barbarian tribe leader on Game of Thrones before that) they've somehow ended up leaning into the goofy colorful comic book stuff anyway, so here we are.

I was thinking about it, and you know, the funny thing is I think we end up making fun of the superhero movies that try to be serious more than the goofy ones. Look at how much humor people derived out of Bale's Batman voice, and Tom Hardy's Bane voice, and even Batman V Superman ended up launching 101 "Martha!" jokes.

I think it ends up being the difference between laughing WITH the movie and laughing AT the movie. Which is why anytime any of us go "Mah man!" or "YEAH!" or "I was just gonna pee on it" we're laughing at that ironically because of how stupid it is.

[spydermann93]

I just saw Aquaman and I actually really enjoyed it. Definitely in my Top 3 WB/DC films along with MoS and Wonder Woman. I was really hoping that they weren't going to go crazy with bringing the sea to life but they not only delivered, but faaar exceeded my expectations. The film was beeeeeautiful! The costumes, the sets, the locales, the battles, the fights between characters... such a beautiful movie. Scene after scene left me thinking, "wow, it can't get better than this," and then they did. And again, and again, and again, wonderful!

Aquaman was pretty bad*** in the movie, too. I'm really glad they didn't go Wimpyman. He's bulletproof, knife-proof, BS-proof, thinking-proof, wait... Ok, yeah, he's a bit of a meathead in the movie (which they do address, thankfully), but that leaves him with some good (not great) character development. I always enjoyed the whole "greatness thrust upon you" story arcs and that's what this movie is. Aquaman doesn't want to become king, but he has to cuz Orm is crazy (but strangely not entirely so).

The story overall won't leave you guessing. It's pretty clichéed (sp?), but I wouldn't call it bad, not by any means. It's decent enough and I enjoyed it.

I loved seeing all of the Undersea Kingdoms, even if we only caught a glimpse of some of them. Again, this movie was beautiful and I loved the designs of all of the undersea kingdoms. Some a bit more than others, but still, all well done.

I would definitely say to give this movie a chance. Not the greatest film and it does feel a bit rushed and overfilled with subplots at times, but it all comes together in a very enjoyable way. This Aquaman may not be one who will sacrifice everything to do what's right, but he's definitely a hero and in this context, I enjoyed that. He clearly doesn't want to be doing what he has to do, but he does it anyways.

8/10 for me

[Starman]

I remember when people on this board (particularly BentonGrey) were really upset about a dark-haired, dark-skinned part-Hawaiian being cast as a white, blonde-headed comic book character.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2018/12/24/how-aquaman-saved-the-dc-films-universe-and-redeemed-batman-v-superman/#72f7fe853166

It seems like critics and audiences don't have a problem with it. Who would have guessed?

[Silver Shocker]

That's not an accurate take though. The criticism being raised was that they were going with the long-haired, bearded "barbarian" 90's angle for the character, rather than a more silver-age style take, because this was back when Syder was doing Batman V. Superman and he was trying to make everything (including Superman!) darker, edgier and more bada$$. I don't remember his ethnicity being mentioned once until recently.
Plus critics aren't reviewing the casting. They're reviewing the entire movie. Which didn't exist when Batman V Superman was coming out.

[Tomato]

TBF, his ethnicity WAS a big part of the reason for casting, and we did discuss it, just on a temp board due to a FR crash. Snyder felt, and it's one small area I can KIND OF see his point on, that Atlanteans would be islanders similar to Hawaiian or Cuban descent (based on some evidence that indicates Atlantis was off the coast of modern day North America). Thus, having Aquaman be someone of Hawaiian descent, with tribal tattoos that are a part of his heritage makes sense*. I'm not a huge fan of that mentality, since I'm more partial to them being based on greeks (and lord knows it's not like a greek hero wouldn't have been unheard of too), but it's why that went down, and they made a big deal about it at the time. And yeah, I was among those not happy... but part of the reason for that was the clear influence of the 90s awful Aquaman look we were all tired of by that point.

*Though can I just say the fact that they then made Atlanteans white dudes with stupid hair buns in light of that decision is ridiculous. Make it a thing or don't.

[Shogunn2517]

Agreed. The thing with the critics and general audiences is I doubt they're anywhere near as familiar with the character as someone like Benton is. Not that he's the one and only authority for Aquaman, but using him as a proxy, those who are comic fans, hardcore fans, it's rather an unnecessary change or worse.

But here's my problem that just got worse over the course of the films. It would be one thing, if they made him a dark-haired, Polynesian-esque character because Snyder, reportedly, was looking for a more exotic look and if you're looking for something modernized, I suppose I COULD make sense of that, that Atlantis would be in/near the Pacific Ocean and that would be a more natural/realistic "Atlanteen" look. But it's like when they decided to do the solo film, they ignored that whole reasoning. Because when we saw Mera, she was awfully white. Orm? White. Atlanna? White. King Nereus? White.  So I'm left asking myself what was the point casting Jason Momoa to give him an "exotic" look if practically no one else will?

BUT.

To be perfectly honest, I'm with Tomato. I may not like it, but if they can make sense of it, I suppose it can be palatable. But what's making it MORE unforgivable in my eyes is his characterization. Like making Batman team-oriented. Or Superman sulking and depressing. Or making Deadpool serious. Or making Wolverine friendly. This is what I'm getting from this movie. The way Momoa is portraying the actor is beyond ridiculous for me. I rolled my eyes everytime he was on screen in Justice League and with that performance for an entire film, I personally can't get pass it. No matter how pretty the rest of the movie looks. Maybe it might be MY wrong interpretation of the character I've seen from his media, but I typically get warrior, serious, noble, principled. Here he's a biker that likes to swim. I can't take it seriously.

[Tomato]

TBF, I think that's the intent... it's a bit more of a fun and campy movie, so you're not supposed to take it or him seriously. And there's comparisons to be drawn to Thor Ragnarok, where they took a character and put him in a more campy setting to take advantage of the actor's comedic strengths. That said... part of the comedy comes from Thor's stoic nature and Hemsworth plays that up, whereas Aquaman... he's just kinda loud and annoying. I dunno, I'm in the same boat as you and Benton emotionally (I even got free movie tickets through work and though Aquaman was brought up as a possible use I'm like... I'd rather save them for Captain Marvel), even if logically I can see why things are done this way.

[Silver Shocker]

TBF, his ethnicity WAS a big part of the reason for casting, and we did discuss it, just on a temp board due to a FR crash.[/size]

Interesting. I don't think I had any knowledge out of that (either that or I completely forgot because that was a few years ago) so thank you for clearing that up.

Like making Batman team-oriented. Or Superman sulking and depressing. Or making Deadpool serious. Or making Wolverine friendly.

I'm a little surprised you made those comparisons. Sulking, depressing Superman I get but team-oriented Batman goes back to before I was born (Batman and the Outsiders, 1983) to say nothing of his involvement in the JL in the comics and cartoons and the Bat-family in general. And Deadpool actually has quite a bit of pathos to him if you're reading the right comic (Joe Kelly's original late 90's run being a very good example, along with Duggan's more recent run, and even some of the more tragic parts of his backstory in the films) And Wolverine wasn't that brooding or that much of a loner in the original Claremont/Cockrum/Byrne stories. I know I'm reading too much into and drifting off topic but there's years of precedent for all of those.

In any case, I think by this point and all the "my man" We seem to have kinda forgotten, when Momoa's Aquaman was introduced in Batman V Superman, he wasn't portrayed as goofy or comedic or anything like that. He was portrayed as a found-footage cryptid (ala Bigfoot, Loch Ness ect) while ominous music played. Whereas Barry Allen was shown foiling a convenience store robbery in his civvies while picking out something from the cold foods and beverages aisle. For whatever reason (course correction due to feedback? Whedon?) They seemed to have changed their mind as to what this version of Aquaman was going to be.

[BentonGrey]

*Ignores Starman

'Mato and Shogunn have pretty much hit the nail on the head.  Like 'Mato, though I didn't like the change (as it is unnecessary), the proposed reasoning for it wasn't terrible and I could begrudgingly appreciate it.  Of course, that justification is gone now, making the change all the more unnecessary.  But, as the others have said, the biggest problem is that he looks like the stupid, long-haired 90s version of the character and he acts like Aqua-bro.  Urg...just seeing him in the trailers made me shake my head.  "Heh, I was just gonna' pee on it, hurh hurh hurh."

In short, he's not the character I love, which is a shame.  Since most folks know nothing about the character, unlike Batman and Superman, it's no surprise that folks don't object to the changes, especially since the rest of the movie looks really cool.

[spydermann93]

I think like Superman from MoS, Aquaman is going to grow and evolve.

Man of Steel is one of my favorite movies (Superman being one of my favorite heroes), but the Superman in that movie was not much of a Superman. Being taught to hide his powers, brooding, killing his antagonist, not saving his dad; none of that was really "Superman." There were glimmers of Superman in there such as saving that bus when he was told not to, but that was about it.

It wasn't until later movies that we started seeing more of what makes Superman amazing. In BvS, we see him travelling around the world saving people. He even stopped in the middle of tracking some baddies down to go save people half-way across the world. He started breaking out of his slump (not entirely, though). That is something I can see happening with Aquaman.

He was raised to be a bit of a meathead, to meet his problems with his fists, but he's learning. He's learning to think more and to be a real leader. He was an immature hot-head in the movie for sure, but there were definite signs of growth. It might not end up being a carbon-copy of the Aquaman his fans love, but it does seem like he's going to grow just like Superman is. And now that I think about it, Wonder Woman kind of had the same problem. Hiding away for several decades is NEVER something she'd do, but she came out and is starting to act like a SUPER hero.

I guess that's why I didn't really have a problem with how Aquaman was portrayed. Growth seems inevitable, and in a good way.

[Shogunn2517]

Jeez, you're pretty much practically pointing to the essential problem I have with the DCEU lol. It's the characterization of most of these characters. Even the ones they do seemingly get right, there's a bit of a flaw that aggrivatingly sticks out. Like Wonder Woman. They have a whole movie talking about her responsibility to mankind only for her to disappear 70-80 years?  And SS, while I hear you, particularly from a Pre-Crisis Batman, Post Crisis, I don't see him as needing others or proactively seeking help from others. If anything its begrudgingly or only on his terms. Superman is super and does have a responsibility that he feels, but he also acts in a way that isn't the Superman we know. Whether he's brooding and being a jerk(does anyone actually see Superman tossing a government drone out of the sky smashing it on the ground and then lecturing the military for it?) or doing things he typically wouldn't do. And then there's Aquaman. I mean I halfway expect him to smash a beer can against his forehead at the end of every scene just because.

[BentonGrey]

Precisely.

But, another point that Spyder brings out with his discussion of growth is the lack of consistency and planning in the DCEU.  Unlike Marvel, where there was a good plan in place that capitalized on the spirit of the characters and the universe, DC's execution has been slipshod and poorly thought-out from day one.  That means that we get inconsistent characterization.  Yeah, you could call it growth, but it doesn't flow from existing stories or follow logical directions, by and large.   

[Starman]

Here are a few quotes from the first discussion of Jason Mamoa's casting as Aquaman:

BentonGrey:

as I've said many times before, eys, hair color is something of a big deal when you're dealing with characters who are visual in their presentation.  Comics are a visual medium, Superman is as much a guy in red and blue as he is the Last Son of Krypton.  Imagine a blonde Superman or a red headed Batman.  It just wouldn't be the character, because the character is their appearance, in part.  As others have pointed out, Momoa isn't just the wrong hair color, he's completely the wrong look.

Did you miss my comment about the roughly 60 years our of his 75 year existence during which Aquaman has worn basically the same costume?  I think that objectively qualifies as a definitive look.  Plus, for 75 years he's been blonde haired and blue eyed. 

As for the latest dust up here, awkward comments aside, it isn't racist to want an actor to be have the same look as the character they are supposed to be playing, it's just sensible.  I think we can all be adults when it comes to that conversation and realize that nobody is saying that the problem is the race of the actor, it's how closely they resemble the character.  I'd be just as annoyed if they cast Momoa (or Chris Hemsworth, for that matter) to play Ryan Choi.  

So, skin tone is not part of physical appearance?  How silly of me.  Anyway, the guy just doesn't look like the character he's supposed to play.  Your disregard does not diminish the point.  Momoa doesn't look like the character, and I don't think anyone has actually argued that he does.  Can he still play the role?  Assuming he's a decent actor, (an assumption I've seen no evidence to support) obviously that's possible, but that doesn't mean that he magically fits Aquaman.

Shogunn2517:

In which variation did Aquaman look like the Apache Chief?

What's so weird about it?  Chris Hemsworth, Henry Cavil, they are white.  Anglo.  Of European descent, Caucasian.  That's what they are.  Likely for far more than two or three generations.  That's not Jason Momoa.  His father is a Native Hawaiian.  They are of Asian descent. That's not a tan.  That's skin pigmentation.  His blood has a different level of Melanin than your or mine.

What has been said is that a Half Hawaiian, half German/Irish/NATIVE AMERICAN actor wouldn't look right for the role he's been playing, a Caucasian, blonde-haired, blue-eyed Atlantean.  He doesn't resemble the character audiences and fans readily recognize as Aquaman.

All of these comments were made before "Justice League" had even been released / anyone had seen Momoa's acting in the role. They were based purely on casting.

So ... yeah, as I mentioned, I remember when people on this board were really upset about a dark-haired, dark-skinned part-Hawaiian being cast as a white, blonde-headed comic book character.

I'm glad that, as it turns out, critics and audiences don't have a problem with it, and a film starring Jason Mamoa can make $1bn (and counting).

I think it's great when people can wholeheartedly embrace this kind of modern, diverse casting.

[BentonGrey]

So Spyder, what makes Man of Steel one of your favorite movies, despite the Superman in it being, admittedly, not much of a Superman?  I mean, for my own part, as dreary as much of it is, I still would have called it the best Superman movie we've had until the conclusion, but I'd say that's more a reflection on the other movies than praise for that one.    I'm joking a bit, but I am genuinely curious.

SS, you make a good point about the 'team Batman' of earlier days, but even in his Silver/Bronze Age appearances he usually wasn't as much an enthusiastic team member as, say, Superman or Flash.  I haven't read Outsiders, but it is my understanding that Bats begins to be more controlling and jerky in that book.  Is that correct?

[Tomato]

Starman, knock it the hfil off. No one that was a part of that conversation before was denying it happened. Also, the "well it makes money and therefore is fine" is the same lame defense given to the michael bay transformers films, and just because a film critic praises it as a FILM does not mean it authentically captures the source material for those with the most attachment to it.

I don't agree with Benton a lot of the time, but in the case of Aquaman, the fact that he was CLEARLY being based on the 90s version was even off putting for me (and I'm usually the obnoxious champion for diversity in actors) right out of the gate, and that's a problem no matter what ethnicity the actor was. Frankly, I don't like Momoa in the role either, and it's a big reason I have no desire to see the film. I don't like the dudebro archetype, period.

As for the whole "grow into the character" argument... no, no they haven't. I defended MoS tooth an nail because I was certain, CERTAIN that they were going to evolve Superman into the hero he was in the comics. That killing Zod was what would cause him to adopt his no kill code. That he'd find a better way next time. And guess what? That NEVER HAPPENED. Superman continues to kill people in BvS, and his "savior of the people" persona in Justice League is never earned. When he dies in BvS, he'd just been the cause of senate hearings, but somehow after death he's been deified? BS.

I'm willing to concede that Aquaman is probably a perfectly fine film and, without the baggage I have with the DCEU and it's portrayal of the character, I'd probably enjoy it. I enjoyed GL and Venom for goodness sake. But I DO have that baggage, and I have no desire to spend theater money on the film.

[Silver Shocker]

SS, you make a good point about the 'team Batman' of earlier days, but even in his Silver/Bronze Age appearances he usually wasn't as much an enthusiastic team member as, say, Superman or Flash.  I haven't read Outsiders, but it is my understanding that Bats begins to be more controlling and jerky in that book.  Is that correct?

Actually, yes, that's right. Batman and the Outsiders basically starts out with Batman pulling a Bender and going "Screw you guys. I'll form my own team! With Blackjack, and hookers". And yeah, at this point I realize my example actually undermined my argument, but oh well.

[spydermann93]

So Spyder, what makes Man of Steel one of your favorite movies, despite the Superman in it being, admittedly, not much of a Superman?  I mean, for my own part, as dreary as much of it is, I still would have called it the best Superman movie we've had until the conclusion, but I'd say that's more a reflection on the other movies than praise for that one.    I'm joking a bit, but I am genuinely curious.

I guess what it boils down to is that most of Superman's shortcomings came from how Jonathan Kent raised him rather than Superman himself. Seeing Superman eventually break through his parent's rules and paranoia to become something better was kind of a refreshing change of pace. He's not the Superman I love, but he is one that I grew to like. He eventually grew into a hero, but even by the end of the movie, he was still learning. While I do have my grievances about the ending, I did come to realize that this isn't a Superman who can find the solution to any problem, but one learning how to deal with them on his own. His parents didn't really teach him anything about being a superhero and how violence is not the answer.

It was also nice to see a Superman that wasn't an evil "Imma rule the world with an iron fist, muahahaha" Superman that we see over and over and over and over and blah blah blah, but still not quite the paragon of justice from the comics. It was a nice middleground for a man who was still good at heart, but not raised to be what he truly could have been.

As for the whole "grow into the character" argument... no, no they haven't. I defended MoS tooth an nail because I was certain, CERTAIN that they were going to evolve Superman into the hero he was in the comics. That killing Zod was what would cause him to adopt his no kill code. That he'd find a better way next time. And guess what? That NEVER HAPPENED. Superman continues to kill people in BvS, and his "savior of the people" persona in Justice League is never earned. When he dies in BvS, he'd just been the cause of senate hearings, but somehow after death he's been deified? BS.

And 'Mato, I disagree with the "no growth" notion. Regardless of how the public sees Superman, we see him doing good out there in the world. He wasn't afraid anymore. He didn't hide like his dad told him to. He was out there defending people who could not defend themselves. That's growth. The movie just did a poor job showing how the people responded to that. And yes, clearly he does not have his "no kill" code, but he isn't just going around murdering random thugs and criminals. The one guy who had a gun to Lois' head is the only guy I remember getting killed by him.

I even said that he is NOT exactly like comic Superman, but he is growing. Slowly and awkwardly, but he is.

[Shogunn2517]

Yes, I'm completely with Tomato. Starman's making it sound like he I or anyone is against diversity and diversity in casting and as far as I'm concerned that's the complete opposite of what's true definitely for me, apparently Tomato too and I'm sure Benton as well.  I clearly had a problem with this casting. Still do and they've only given me MORE reason to have problem with it.  Again, I don't care about the movie itself. It might be good.  But a good movie or even a good performance doesn't mean the casting was right.  I mean I was about to reply to SS's comment on the Marvel thread about Black Widow and Captain America and their appearance. And if I have a problem with a short-haired Thor, a blonde Black Widow or a bearded Captain America of course I'd have a problem with a Hawaiian Aquaman. That should tell you it's not about diversity, but about comic accuracy. Heck, we're on a Freedom Force forum, a game I've modded to play with characters more accurate to their comic counterparts and not any sort of gameplay balance whatsoever. That's what this is about to me.

I mean, I'm a black guy. My profile pick is of my favorite superhero(with superpowers). My nephew is half Asian. For the most part I have completely no issue with diverse cast, particularly when a character's race isn't specifically characterized. I like the fact that Iris and Wally West are black.  Could have cared less that Lawrence Fishburn is playing Perry White. I'm a boxing fan and was thrilled when I heard Ann Wolfe(trust me, YouTube her knockout) was cast as Artemis in Wonder Woman.  Wild Dog is latino and couldn't be bothered by it one bit. I watched the heck out of Luke Cage and will call anyone a bad name if you try to tell me it isn't the best show on Netflix.  I'm thrilled Marvel's network series is lead by an Asian actress.  My next two favorite television series will star latino actors in each series(they're Star Wars related).

I write all that to say diversity in casting isn't the issue.  The issue is capturing the character and the source material best and DC isn't doing that here and as Spyder laid out, they're doing a rather hack job at it overall.

[Shogunn2517]

And also, I too, gonna have to slightly disagree with the non-evolution of Superman. I actually liked him just fine in Justice League. He was everything I thought he should have been in the prior two movies.

[captmorgan72]

Absolutely loved Jason Momoa as Arthur Curry. Really loved the movie. I can totally understand though why some fans didn't like the casting. Arthur has always been depicted as a white, blonde, blue eyed man and never with a surfer dude personality. That is why the multiverse fixes all of this. In this world, on this earth, Thomas Curry is of Māori descent. Arthur gets his looks from his father and his powers from his mother. His attitude and personality was formed from everything he experienced growing up and feeling like he doesn't belong in his father's world or his mother's. So, Jason is not the Aquaman for some fans and IS the Aquaman for legions of drooling women/men. 

[Silver Shocker]

I mean I was about to reply to SS's comment on the Marvel thread about Black Widow and Captain America and their appearance. And if I have a problem with a short-haired Thor, a blonde Black Widow or a bearded Captain America of course I'd have a problem with a Hawaiian Aquaman.

Hey, they looked like the characters when they first appeared.

Anyway, I've said this elsewhere, but anyone who immediately assumes that diverse casting will immediately be treated with bile, I have two examples I like to use:

1. Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain that an Iranian was playing a character most famously portrayed by Linda Carter and almost always depicted with Caucasian features despite a Greek background. People talked about whether she had the build for the character. And I remember when watching Batman V Superman saying that Wonder Woman with an accent of any kind would take some getting used to (I'm used to it now) But she looks like the character and she acts like the character.

2. B.D. Wong as Hugo Strange in Gotham. Now you can look over to the Jurassic World movies and say that someone decided that for some reason B.D. Wong needs to be playing mad scientists, but his version of the character is pitch perfect. He looks spot on with his nice suit, bald head, goatee and Morpheus glasses, and his calm-mannered-yet-sinister performance fit the character. The fact that he was played by an actor of Asian descent didn't get in the way of making an accurate portrayal.

And hey, Ezra Miller's Flash is Jewish. I almost forgot about him.

[UnkoMan]

Are we allowed, in here, to talk about DC's upcoming movies?
Mostly I'm curious to hear opinions/news on the new Wonder Woman flick. Actually, I'm even more interested in Joaquin Phoenix's Joker, but I'm pretty sure (I hope) it isn't part of the DC Cinematic Universe.

[crimsonquill]

I'm even more interested in Joaquin Phoenix's Joker, but I'm pretty sure (I hope) it isn't part of the DC Cinematic Universe.

No, It's not.. That Joker film is a one-shot character study which dumps him into an '80s retro era with tones of Scarface and Taxi Driver type films. Rumors are setting up the plot to be a Gotham trying to be saved by Thomas Wayne who is caught in a political battle with an unknown adversary which leaves a comedian humiliated during a late show appearance to transform himself into a crime lord to make a point.

- CQ

[UnkoMan]

It sounds pretty good in the same way Logan was good. I'm trying not to read too much about it though. Want to just save it for the movie.

But for Wonder Woman, I don't care as much. I'd hear about it. Kristen Wiig is Cheetah? Pretty weird casting, although I guess she does all sorts of serious roles and whatnot now.
I guess I have never viewed her as particularly physically threatening, but okay.

Or we could talk about Shazam. What's the deal with Sivana being a big muscle man now? When did this happen?