New Superman Movie

[thalaw2]

Ok.  I knew about it being part of the El family coat of arms, but never read the Mark Waid stuff (I know I should...I love that man...for his writing). 

It's a good thing that aliens have one language all across their planet unlike us Earthlings.  We'll never unlock the secrets of intergalatic travel until we're all speaking the same langauge and share one culture.

[Midnite]

 

[BentonGrey]

Haha, that's very clever.

[Midnite]

Man of Steel - "Fate of Your Planet" Official Trailer [HD]

[steamteck]

Eldest daughter is taking me to the midnight premier Thursday as a pre father's day thing so I'll report back. I must confess , I am insanely excited.

[BentonGrey]

I'm looking forward to hearing what folks think.  The reviews I've read so far are not terribly encouraging, and if nothing else they definitely seem to say or more less what many of us have been saying since the project was first announced, that attempting to shoehorn angst and ultra-serious tones into Superman is missing the point of the character.

In that vein, I've been engaged in a running debate with a friend of mine about the viability of Superman as a solo character.  He, like Hollywood and many folks on the street, thinks Supes is boring because he's a morally upright character with 'no flaws,' while I argue that just because a character doesn't have an arc that leads from heel to hero doesn't mean you can't tell great stories about him.

[Podmark]

In that vein, I've been engaged in a running debate with a friend of mine about the viability of Superman as a solo character.  He, like Hollywood and many folks on the street, thinks Supes is boring because he's a morally upright character with 'no flaws,' while I argue that just because a character doesn't have an arc that leads from heel to hero doesn't mean you can't tell great stories about him.

I think it's less that you can't tell great stories, and more that most audiences and creators think that sounds less interesting/ it's easier to tell interesting stories about flawed characters.

Previews look promising, but I don't know if I'm enough of a Supes fan to see this in the theater.

[Shogunn2517]

So reading through some of the reviews, I've pretty much come to similar coclusions that Benton did.  Not the that's all a bad thing.  It promises to be high on the action and angst.  But there are a few things that I skimmed over accidentally that bothered me about this movie and any sequel(s) that will be produced.  It's a bit of a departure from what we know to be Superman and what makes the story what it is.

Please, if you do not want a pretty MAJOR plot point revealed, do not read ahead...

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I'm warning you...

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You've been warned...

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Lois figures out Superman's secret identity.

[BentonGrey]

I think it's less that you can't tell great stories, and more that most audiences and creators think that sounds less interesting/ it's easier to tell interesting stories about flawed characters.

I think that's quite fair.  It's certainly EASIER to tell fantastic stories that feature Superman with the League, and Batman lends himself to compelling storytelling more easily, but it doesn't mean that you can't do the same things with Supes by himself.  Well said.

[Jimaras8]

To bw honest with you Benton, Superman is not a very interesting character in my point of view. Considering that he has similar values with Cap someone could say i find both of them boring. But that couldnt be farther from truth. Cap resides on his humanity such as Batman. They are both compelling because despite the fact they socialize with Super beings they are both leaders in their teams. Why? Because the feats they accomplish have far greater value due to their lack of superpowers. They are more grounded and they reflect in some degree US. Superman is a god. I dont care with psychological problems he has(no pun intended) but he will never be so inspiring due to his supreme traits. Just my opinion.

[Tomato]

Jimaras, I disagree strongly with that statement. I agree that most writers don't know what to do with him, so he's boring like, 80% of the time, but there are some really great, down to earth superman stories. I grew up listening to some of the old Superman Radio series (My dad got me into them as a kid) and most of those stories are just superman against small town thugs, but they're every bit as engaging now as they were when I was a kid because the characters are much more grounded in reality.

Again, I'm reserving judgement until I see it, and not letting other people decide for me. If I had gone in listening to what critics were saying, I might have disliked IM3... and that was one of the better movies in the franchise. I've heard very good things from some hardcore superman fans too, so it's not like this is a hopeless mess.

[Jimaras8]

Tomato, call me Jim and will be easier for you  . I understand what you are saying and i strongly declared that my post was my personal POV. Superman is the most famous comic book hero, it would be insane if he didnt have avid fans. I just never grew on him and the DC universe in general. I am not saying Man of Steel is bad, havent seen it yet, but maybe snyder fall into the trap of mimicing Dark knight style due to Nolans influence on the project. Dont know, but if they are trying to do a <<Man of Steel Rises>> they are on the wrong track if you as me.

[stumpy]

Jim, when written well, those non-"relatable" characteristics are largely what I like about Superman. I can go to the supermarket checkout stand and read about what humans do, but I don't want those as Superman stories. And, there are plenty of superhero stories written where the message is "despite all the powers/skills/gadgets, he's still just like you and me under it all." That's fine for them, but I don't want Superman to be "humanized". Bleh. He isn't like me or like anyone I know and I don't want him to be. Superman isn't special just because of his powers, but because he takes the high road in ways that most people would not. He overcomes the temptation to misuse them (e.g. he doesn't return from a 5-year space trip and use his powers to stalk his ex-girlfriend and find ways to interfere with the stable environment she's built for her young son), he beats the bad guys without using their tactics, he values and protects humanity despite the fact that he is so different, and he is a beacon of hope despite traditionally having a backstory that is as tragic as that of anyone in comics.

Don't get me wrong, there are excellent superhero stories to be written about flawed individuals who overcome those flaws (or who don't) and go on to save the day. In fact, that's the normal story-writing template. I just don't see it as the best Superman template.

FWIW, I personally think Elliot S! Maggin (a Superman writer during the Silver Age) had about the best take on Superman (and Luthor, too). For better or worse, comics were targeted at younger audiences when he was writing, so some of the comics don't have the sophistication and polish we expect these days. But, his two Superman novels, Superman: Last Son of Krypton and Superman: Miracle Monday are both excellent reads and tell compelling Superman stories without "going dark" or giving every other street thug a chunk of kryptonite. I bought both in paperback form from an online used book seller several years back, but they were also available for online reading at least one Maggin-affiliated website for a while. I highly recommend them.

BTW, Morrison and Quitely's All-Star Superman mini-series was also an excellent modern take on Kal. Engaging stories about a very powerful being who faces challenges and meets them in the characteristic way Superman would.

Anyway, I am hopeful about the movie. I have my doubts about Hollywood's ability to make a big picture about a unique character without panicking and falling back on the standard bag of tricks in order to humanize him and make him relatable. But, Snyder generally has done some good work and he could pull this off.

[Jimaras8]

Stumpy, i see your point and is totally respected  . I am just more into guys who are somehow....psychos. One hint is that my favourite marvel chars are wolvie, deadpool and rocket raccoon. So.... that says a lot. A good writer can make wonders with characters like supes. I just think he distant form what i want from my super heroes. Flying with super speed, catching airplanes, or smashing walls, or go turn back time are a bit outdated for me. Instead a shootout against multiple foes, a survival story thats tests a characters limit, or a brawl showdown between arch enemies have my number. But after all these are tastes!

[steamteck]

I'm obviously an enormous Superman fan and I'm good with a little "alien raised as a human who doesn't really quite fit in anywhere " in my Superman.  The above mentioned Elliot S! Maggin  used that theme quite often. The loneliness of never quite fitting in is part of Superman to me. One thing I like about Superman, Captain America, Thor, Doc Savage and their ilk is their larger than life heroism and strong moral stance. I get tired of protagonists I feel morally superior to.

Like Superman I'm a country boy who moved to the big city.Like Superman (as a SF and fantasy geek in the 60s and 70s growing up in a small town) I never quite fit in. To me Superman is very relatable and at the same time someone you wish you could be.. I can even relate from work and life experiences choosing to make the right moral decision when the world seems to be against you doing it.

[BentonGrey]

Extremely well said, Stumpy.  I'll have to look those books up.  As the Atomic Robo team wrote:

Loading characters up with angst was a revolutionary move on the part of Marvel Comics back in the '60s. I haven't looked at a calendar today, but that was four decades ago. There are other emotions and motivations available to characters.

Steamteck, I know precisely what you mean.

[steamteck]

OMG. It was fantastic! Seeing again with the wife on Tuesday ( $5 movie night ) some purists may have a problem with the  final big fight but it worked for me.  We're talking Marvel  cinematic universe good here IMO.

[Shogunn2517]

Just got back from the first showing.  I gotta say I wasn't too much impressed.  It had its moments, but it didn't stick with me.

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I'm not going to go through every bit that bothered me and such, but I'm really getting bothered by this recent trend of certain producers feeling a need to alter intrinsic parts of what makes some characters and book work for whatever reason.  I mean, I'm still having trouble finding a reason why

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Lois had to discover Supeman's identity.  And then feel the need to blurt out his name whenever she felt the need.  I know it might just be me being picky, but the whole Lois/Superman/Clark triangle is an element that's almost as ingrained in the Superman mythos as him being the last son of Krypton.  But her finding out who he is, again, can't figure out what it accomplished.

More than that though, it seemed like they wanted to go out their way to make Superman a Superman for 2010 and what would Superman be like in the real world, but then dampen that idea by having these large-scale , massive holocaust like destruction, laying waste to entire cities cause them to be effective war zones.  I know a superpowered alien stretches by suspension of belief, but ain alien invasion by earth seemed to be taken fairly well by an entire population.  Especially after the death of thousands with skyscrapers being pulverized like dandilions.  Hard for me to take it too seriously when it does that.

It just seemed rushed or disjointed and it seemed to go out its way to make it more complicated than necessary.

[steamteck]

Just got back from the first showing.  I gotta say I wasn't too much impressed.  It had its moments, but it didn't stick with me.

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I'm not going to go through every bit that bothered me and such, but I'm really getting bothered by this recent trend of certain producers feeling a need to alter intrinsic parts of what makes some characters and book work for whatever reason.  I mean, I'm still having trouble finding a reason why

Spoiler

Lois had to discover Supeman's identity.  And then feel the need to blurt out his name whenever she felt the need.  I know it might just be me being picky, but the whole Lois/Superman/Clark triangle is an element that's almost as ingrained in the Superman mythos as him being the last son of Krypton.  But her finding out who he is, again, can't figure out what it accomplished.

More than that though, it seemed like they wanted to go out their way to make Superman a Superman for 2010 and what would Superman be like in the real world, but then dampen that idea by having these large-scale , massive holocaust like destruction, laying waste to entire cities cause them to be effective war zones.  I know a superpowered alien stretches by suspension of belief, but ain alien invasion by earth seemed to be taken fairly well by an entire population.  Especially after the death of thousands with skyscrapers being pulverized like dandilions.  Hard for me to take it too seriously when it does that.

It just seemed rushed or disjointed and it seemed to go out its way to make it more complicated than necessary.

I must have seen a different movie? Seemed pretty tight to me.

Your big spoiler issue is actually not a big deal for me. I actually prefer this approach  ( now rebooted away in the comics)

[Mr. Hamrick]

I am not a huge fan of Superman either.  I never have been one.  There have been a few Superman stories that I liked, though.  (One of those stories was "For Tomorrow" which Brian Azzarello wrote a few years ago.  Which might tell you something.)    For me, the 'darker' story is not a bad thing.  I don't even think it is going to be that 'dark' but rather more 'serious' in tone than the Donner films or Singer's fiasco. 

I've already see spoilers for the movie.  The one that Shogun mentioned was one of the first things that I heard earlier this week.  I was cool with it.  I am far more disappointed regarding something else that I heard about the movie. 

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No after credits cameo by any other DC hero.

but I can see why given DC's track record of getting their heroes on film.

Regardless, I am looking forward to seeing this movie.  I'm going to see this with minimal expectations but that's been the case from the outset..  However, I won't be able to see it for a week or so.

[Shogunn2517]

Just got back from the first showing.  I gotta say I wasn't too much impressed.  It had its moments, but it didn't stick with me.

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I'm not going to go through every bit that bothered me and such, but I'm really getting bothered by this recent trend of certain producers feeling a need to alter intrinsic parts of what makes some characters and book work for whatever reason.  I mean, I'm still having trouble finding a reason why

Spoiler

Lois had to discover Supeman's identity.  And then feel the need to blurt out his name whenever she felt the need.  I know it might just be me being picky, but the whole Lois/Superman/Clark triangle is an element that's almost as ingrained in the Superman mythos as him being the last son of Krypton.  But her finding out who he is, again, can't figure out what it accomplished.

More than that though, it seemed like they wanted to go out their way to make Superman a Superman for 2010 and what would Superman be like in the real world, but then dampen that idea by having these large-scale , massive holocaust like destruction, laying waste to entire cities cause them to be effective war zones.  I know a superpowered alien stretches by suspension of belief, but ain alien invasion by earth seemed to be taken fairly well by an entire population.  Especially after the death of thousands with skyscrapers being pulverized like dandilions.  Hard for me to take it too seriously when it does that.

It just seemed rushed or disjointed and it seemed to go out its way to make it more complicated than necessary.

I must have seen a different movie? Seemed pretty tight to me.

Your big spoiler issue is actually not a big deal for me. I actually prefer this approach  ( now rebooted away in the comics)

No, you were not seeing a different movie.  I can't fault you and how you see things.  I'm not saying it was poorly directed or acted.  It was a good movie.  It just tried to do to much and seemed to want to BE epic instead of just IS.  I don't want to dump on the movie.  It just didn't stick to me as much as I wanted it too.

[detourne_me]

Here's a collection of my random disjointed thoughts on the movie.

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- my girlfriend put it best when she said, the movie was good, there just wasn't a climax.
- as an educator I really really loved the scenes of Clark growing up. It really came across as him being a child with special needs, especially after watching the TEDxTeen talk by 12 year old Jacob Barnett
- Kevin Costner was amazing as a father
- we finally got to see big massive fights in a Superman movie, but there did seem to be few consequences for the fights (ie loss of human life, damage taken by combatants)
- finally we have a Pulitzer prize winning journalist that could track down a story and figure out a mystery. One of the most well-written Lois Lanes I've seen.
- the whole terraforming plot is dumb, didn't they see how awesome it is to live with powers?
- Kryptonian culture was definitely alien here.  I loved it. The tech was better than random crystals and it referenced both silver age krypton and Geoff johns krypton
- no post-credits scene 
- only a passing reference to Lex Luthor, no Jimmy Olsen, lots of room for growth.

In all, I really liked it,  streets ahead of Superman Returns, and Green Lantern, not quite on par with Thor.
My thoughts and hopes for the future of the franchise:

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- the next movie should be called "Man of Tomorrow"
- it should focus on the rebuilding of Metropolis into a futuristic city, Superman becomes a shining light for humanity
- introduce Jimmy Olsen and work on establishing Clark Kent as a secret identity at the Daily Planet
- introduce Lex Luthor as villain, with either Bizarro or Doomsday as the person to fight
- probably bizarro would be better, since Kal already holds the entirety of Kryptonian DNA in his blood.  A clone could be made.
- the main conflict is about the future of humanity, can we do it on our own (like what Luthor wants) or do we need a Superman
- Bizarro/Doomsday is used either as a result of mad science or extraterrestrial conflict, and it comes across as Superman's fault...almost Prometheus unbound like

- the third movie should be called "Last son of Krypton"
- following on the events of the last movie, Brainiac becomes interested in Earth
- the story of the Kryptonian codex is followed up, Brainiac is also interested in Kryptonian DNA
- Lex Luthor needs to resolve differences with Superman, or kind of back him up in a way against Brainiac
- a bottle city of Kandor(of a sort) is found on Brainiac's ship.  It's up to Superman to reinvigorate it wi life from his DNA.
- Superman has to bridge the gap between Earth and a new Krypton
- other fun stuff happens...

[Podmark]

Those are some great ideas, detourne_me. Hopefully WB is as a creative as you are.

[spydermann93]

DM, you are a genius.

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I'd love to see a Bizarro in film.  As I told my friends, I think of Luthor more as the side-villain/manipulator; not exactly the villain who Superman has to face the entire movie.  That doesn't mean that he can't play a large role, though

[deano_ue]

l seen it last night and honestly I don't know. I can seem to put my finger on a view point

It may sound like over analyzing it but this one may take some thinking about. my main problem with mos is simply,Mos just seemed off there was some amazingly spectacular parts but others just seemed to dumb and so random. It's a strange film that seems to really have polarised people. I honestly can't seem to make a final decision on it.

It's in no way a bad movie it just seem to be something that doesn't sit

One think that does stand out and I know it will not be popular especially on the hype but they really need to pull back on the Nolan filter as its being called online, it may work in some places but in others it seemed extremely jarring. it seem to be a great action movie but every low on heart in the characters


and as for the ending im not a fan or against it because of personal beliefs but this is simply going to really PO a lot of fans

[JKCarrier]

The movie has some good things going for it. I just wish...

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...Superman was better at saving people. We don't specifically see it, but given the widespread destruction -- Metropolis looks like a nuke hit it -- the death toll must be in the hundreds of thousands at least. And since the only reason Zod comes to Earth in the first place is because Superman's there, it makes Supes look more like a liability than a savior. One of the things I liked about the Avengers movie was that the heroes at least gave lip service to the idea of protecting civilians and limiting collateral damage. Superman doesn't seem to give a hoot.

[docdelorean88]

I was generally ...im not sure displeased is appropriate.... just... not impressed i guess. It was ok. The casting was SPOT ON(Henry Cavil is my new favorite superman to be honest). But... it was... disjointed. Jumpy. FAR too angsty. UE basically said what ive been thinking. Id write a longer review, but i cant seem to figure out how to put a spoiler tag in here

[BentonGrey]

I was generally ...im not sure displeased is appropriate.... just... not impressed i guess. It was ok. The casting was SPOT ON(Henry Cavil is my new favorite superman to be honest). But... it was... disjointed. Jumpy. FAR too angsty. UE basically said what ive been thinking. Id write a longer review, but i cant seem to figure out how to put a spoiler tag in here

Disjointed?  Jumpy?  Not in a Nolan affiliated superhero flick!  Shock and disbelief!

The spoiler tags are now the hazard symbol, next to the quote button.

[Shogunn2517]

I figured I wouldn't be the only person who felt the way I did about this movie. 

Again, no one(I don't even think the actual critics) is saying that this is a bad movie.  Snyder did a pretty fine job directing.  The acting was WELL done from just about everyone.  The thing is, something just seems off.  It's like they had in their minds these certain points, benchmarks or devices that they thought they had to hit to make an epic movie and that's what they did. 

"Bad arse heart pumping music? Check."
"Inevitable adopted son/father 'you're not my dad anyway' argument? Check"
"Hero not knowing what to do turns to random priest for advice? Check"
"Touching teachable flashback moments? Check"
"super big bad over the top superhero fight? Check."
"Heart jerking emotional farewell kiss? Check."
"Superman doing something Superman-zy? Check."
"Clark Kent reporting for duty with dorky specs readying for the sequel? Cha-Ching"

It's like they said, okay this is what we need to do to make an epic movie.  Now that we did it, this will be the most epic movie ever!  Well... No.  The movie was good.  I smiled at the end.  Smashed popcorn in my face googily eyed at the super fights.  Marveled at a Superman who finally looked like the Suoerman we all wanted to see.  It was a good movie, but like I said, it just didn't stick with me.  I see it much like I saw Thor or Captain America or Batman Begins.  It was a good start and entertaining... Just something's didn't sit well with me.  Heck if it's anything like Nolan Batman movies, I'll love the 2nd one because the remembrable villain and the character coming into his own and then I'll hate the 3rd one when Nolan changes the entire essences and trajectory of the character by like giving him a kid and sending him on a random five year trip when he's supposed to be earths protector.................

[steamteck]

Wait you preferred the 2nd Batman movie to Begins or Thor or Captain America? Those didn't quite sit right. Wow! we really really are on a different wavelength. That's cool though everybody's different.


Well, I'm seeing again on Tuesday with the wife and maybe Wednesday. Its doing well so a sequel has been greenlighted. I'm happy.