Earth's Mightiest Heroes - Season 2

[BentonGrey]

Talavar, I'd agree with you, at least to a degree.  I think YJ is very close to the quality of Avengers, but then Avengers has crossed that fine line into excellent more often.  Either way, I think the original poster was making their point in light of the rumored cancellation of Avengers.  'Mato, I haven't seen this second season so far, so I can't judge from that.  Curse Toon Disney!

[Talavar]

I think I'm being misread.  I said Avengers is better than any of the other DC shows; 'other' here meaning other than Young Justice.  (For reference: Young Justice > Avengers > Green Lantern, Iron Man: Armoured Adventures, Ultimate Spider-man & probably Beware the Batman).  Are there any other DC or Marvel animated shows in production right now?

I think Young Justice has superior character development in its leads, better ongoing development of over-plots and sub-plots, and more consistent high quality of animation than Avengers.  That said, I prefer the scope of Avengers, with it's top tier characters and villains, over the string of backbenchers Young Justice sometimes uses, but it's not enough to put Avengers over the top.

One gripe about Young Justice however - the Xanatos Roulette-ish tendency of villains to constantly lose yet somehow still achieve most of their aims, and gloat about losing.  I know it's a mechanism to let the villains lose to the heroes of the show episode after episode, yet still seem dangerous and menacing, but, as with Weisman's Gargoyles, it starts making it look like the villains actually plan to lose.  I think they have low self esteem.

[Tomato]

Talavar, I'd agree with you, at least to a degree.  I think YJ is very close to the quality of Avengers, but then Avengers has crossed that fine line into excellent more often.  Either way, I think the original poster was making their point in light of the rumored cancellation of Avengers.  'Mato, I haven't seen this second season so far, so I can't judge from that.  Curse Toon Disney!

Well, to put it mildly, it isn't as good this season. The episodes have been much more self-contained, the stories are less interesting and more generic, and the overall sub-plot of Skrull Cap has been so in-your-face that the inevitable shock from the other team members that "ZOMG he's a skrull!" will just seem forced. I keep hoping they're just taking time to get back into their former rhythm, but it does seem like the writing has taken a nose dive from the last season to this one.

I think I'm being misread.  I said Avengers is better than any of the other DC shows; 'other' here meaning other than Young Justice.  (For reference: Young Justice > Avengers > Green Lantern, Iron Man: Armoured Adventures, Ultimate Spider-man & probably Beware the Batman).  Are there any other DC or Marvel animated shows in production right now?

I think Young Justice has superior character development in its leads, better ongoing development of over-plots and sub-plots, and more consistent high quality of animation than Avengers.  That said, I prefer the scope of Avengers, with it's top tier characters and villains, over the string of backbenchers Young Justice sometimes uses, but it's not enough to put Avengers over the top.

One gripe about Young Justice however - the Xanatos Roulette-ish tendency of villains to constantly lose yet somehow still achieve most of their aims, and gloat about losing.  I know it's a mechanism to let the villains lose to the heroes of the show episode after episode, yet still seem dangerous and menacing, but, as with Weisman's Gargoyles, it starts making it look like the villains actually plan to lose.  I think they have low self esteem.

Well... in my defense, Benton did it too.

[Previsionary]

Silly Talavar, you expected much of Bentonami. Reading is difficult for him. He's a sea creature... and not of the Namor variety. *glares evilly at Benton and disappears in a flurry of feathers*

[Talavar]

This week: "To Steal an Ant-Man":

Spoiler

Someone is committing crimes as Ant-man, so Hank Pym hires Luke Cage & Iron Fist, heroes for hire, to track them down and get his gear back.  Wasp tries to convince Hank not to quit the Avengers, and the rest of the Avengers do sudoku or something. 

So Hank is finally back, moaning and whining like a douchebag.  Yay?  I think it's really interesting that Hank is here complaining that the Avengers are wrong/useless, when the last time we saw him as part of the team, they helped save the world from an inter-dimensional despot.  Still, Luke Cage and Iron Fist were fun and nicely done, Scott Lang exists, which I have no opinion on, but know some enjoy.  Cassie Lang is introduced, but much too young  to really take on the role of Stature any time soon.

I personally am really sick of the anti-superhero sentiment in a lot of comics & associated media, arguing that superheroes are pointless.  Hank in this episode says that the Avengers are basically useless to Jan, not only quitting because of a distaste for violence, but refusing to help the team in any capacity.  At  my count, however, the Avengers saved the world 6 separate times in season 1: from Kang, Ultron, Loki, the Leader, a detonating Kree sentry, and the Casque of Ancient Winters.  All required an Avengers/superheroic response, and only 1, Ultron, was the direct result of an Avenger's actions (even then, since weaponizing Ultron was necessary for the defeat of Kang, it's mitigated somewhat).  Therefore, Hank Pym and the producers of these arguments are idiots.

[detourne_me]

Talavar,

Spoiler

About your third paragraph,  I believe they are going to try to work in something about Hank's schizophrenia, or something along those lines....  did you see when he flipped out in the lab there was a closeup of a yellowjacket?

[Talavar]

Talavar,

Spoiler

About your third paragraph,  I believe they are going to try to work in something about Hank's schizophrenia, or something along those lines....  did you see when he flipped out in the lab there was a closeup of a yellowjacket?

I hope they do work in something to explain his behaviour, but Hank isn't the only person giving this sort of opinion on the show - Maria Hill is even worse.  It was also a general indictment of this sort of attitude, which has also been cropping up a lot in comics over the past couple of years.

[detourne_me]

Right, well if you take a look at Warren Ellis' example in Planetary, the Fan4 are pretty much the biggest arses in the universe because they have access to such amazing tech but use it all on selfish purposes like exploring the microverse.
if they really wanted to be heroes they'd created sustainable energy and provide the poor with the means to live a comfortable life.

Hank had been mentioning that last season, wanting to help the villains to become productive members of society, not just bashing their heads.

I think Dan Slott has really addressed this issue well in the pages of Amazing Spider-man recently.  Peter's work at Horizon Labs is turning into consumer products that really help people, while his new motto as Spidey is "Nobody dies!"
Slott's been able to approach the concept of superhero on both sides, and it's just a fantastic read too.

[Talavar]

While their big screen counterparts are getting all the attention, there was still a new episode this yesterday.  This week, in Avengers: Earth's Danglingest Plot-lines, a man named Michael Korvac appears, claiming to have been abducted by aliens...

Spoiler

Korvac here is an amalgam of the comic character's history, jumping from his abduction to super-powered space god and jumping over a middle portion there.  The Guardians of the Galaxy show up in pursuit of Korvac, whom the Avengers are sheltering, have the mandatory hero vs hero throwdown, then team up against Korvac who has been blowing stuff up in space for some time before coming back to earth. 

It's neat to see the Guardians of the Galaxy in animated form - the most recent version of the team, largely.  Star Lord, Rocket Racoon, Groot, Quasar (Phyla-Vell) and Adam Warlock are the members shown.  They're interpreted a little weirdly - Groot especially having weird, super-fast regeneration/dispersion & reintegration as a power, and Warlock heavily featuring his soul gem - something he no longer had as a member of the Guardians.  Phyla never mentions a link to the Kree, who come up as the abductors of Korvac, which given Kree appearance in the show - I don't think 'white' Kree exist - cuts away her backstory without replacing it with anything for this brief appearance.

A lot is never really explained: how Korvac got so powerful (beyond random experimentation), why he's so crazy and destructive (again, beyond the whole abduction thing), and there's not much resolution.  With so many storylines up in the air at the moment, this feels like a wasted episode.  It doesn't appear to connect to any of the existing ones (Skrull Invasion, Kree/Skrull War, Superhero Registration, etc); if anything, it's a link to still others   (I can't help but think the Guardians of the Galaxy are a connection to Thanos, particularly with the emphasis given to Warlock's soul gem, and it's tie to the infinity gauntlet storyline).  Clearly this is all culminating somewhere, farther down the line, but I much preferred the mini-arcs of last season, with two to three episodes to deal with most major plots.  The team behind Avengers just aren't as good at balancing satisfying individual episodes with the season-long storyline as the folks working on Young Justice.

[oldmanwinters]

While their big screen counterparts are getting all the attention, there was still a new episode this yesterday.  This week, in Avengers: Earth's Danglingest Plot-lines, a man named Michael Korvac appears, claiming to have been abducted by aliens...

Spoiler

Korvac here is an amalgam of the comic character's history, jumping from his abduction to super-powered space god and jumping over a middle portion there.  The Guardians of the Galaxy show up in pursuit of Korvac, whom the Avengers are sheltering, have the mandatory hero vs hero throwdown, then team up against Korvac who has been blowing stuff up in space for some time before coming back to earth. 

It's neat to see the Guardians of the Galaxy in animated form - the most recent version of the team, largely.  Star Lord, Rocket Racoon, Groot, Quasar (Phyla-Vell) and Adam Warlock are the members shown.  They're interpreted a little weirdly - Groot especially having weird, super-fast regeneration/dispersion & reintegration as a power, and Warlock heavily featuring his soul gem - something he no longer had as a member of the Guardians.  Phyla never mentions a link to the Kree, who come up as the abductors of Korvac, which given Kree appearance in the show - I don't think 'white' Kree exist - cuts away her backstory without replacing it with anything for this brief appearance.

A lot is never really explained: how Korvac got so powerful (beyond random experimentation), why he's so crazy and destructive (again, beyond the whole abduction thing), and there's not much resolution.  With so many storylines up in the air at the moment, this feels like a wasted episode.  It doesn't appear to connect to any of the existing ones (Skrull Invasion, Kree/Skrull War, Superhero Registration, etc); if anything, it's a link to still others   (I can't help but think the Guardians of the Galaxy are a connection to Thanos, particularly with the emphasis given to Warlock's soul gem, and it's tie to the infinity gauntlet storyline).  Clearly this is all culminating somewhere, farther down the line, but I much preferred the mini-arcs of last season, with two to three episodes to deal with most major plots.  The team behind Avengers just aren't as good at balancing satisfying individual episodes with the season-long storyline as the folks working on Young Justice.

I saw it and noticed that it was dedicated to Boyd Kirkland.  I hate to admit it, but I had no idea he passed away in January.  I was a big fan of his extensive work in animation and I am saddened that he is now gone.

[Cyber Burn]

Hate to say it, but season 2 just isn't hitting me the way season 1 did.

[captmorgan72]

Hate to say it, but season 2 just isn't hitting me the way season 1 did.

I'm in your boat.

[Shogunn2517]

I think the next episode would put it more in my stride if anything.  Hopefully.

[MJB]

Hate to say it, but season 2 just isn't hitting me the way season 1 did.

Been feeling the same way. So far it's been "meh".

[Talavar]

I think the biggest problem with the second season is all the dangling plot-threads.  In the first season there were a variety of mini-arcs.  Masters of Evil, the Leader's gamma domes, Kang, Ultron, in addition to more stand-alone episodes.  Thus far this season, they've all been largely stand-alone, but tying in here and there to half a dozen different ongoing stories that are advancing at a glacial pace.

[Podmark]

Saw the Ant-Man episode tonight. Quite enjoyed it, probably my favorite of the season. Looking forward to the GotG ep.

[Talavar]

Hey, a new episode of Avengers that advances a storyline!  My stars and garters! 

Spoiler

Nick Fury returns in this week's episode, with Mockingbird and Quake, I want to say, in tow, and looking a little more like Samuel Jackson.  He reveals to Tony that skrulls are infiltrating the planet, including the Avengers.  Hawkeye is their prime suspect for skrullification, but Tony concludes that any of the Avengers could be skrulls.  Ms. Marvel tries to take Hawkeye in to SWORD for questioning, and the team basically breaks up over it.  Cap rallies Hawkeye, Hulk and the Wasp to remain as Avengers, then later checks in with his skrully superior that everything went as planned.  That superior: Mockingbird!

This was a pretty solid episode.  We get real movement on a major storyline, the characterizations are generally well done, and Ms. Marvel confronts Hawkeye in a way where you can legitimately see both points of view -neither comes off as completely in the wrong.  That said, the ending concerns me.  We have 2 choices for Skrull-motivations: they either want the Avengers together as a useful weapon against their enemies the Kree, or they want the Avengers mistrustful and divided so they're out of the way of the Skrull Invasion.  Skrull-Cap rallies some of the Avengers to stick together, suggesting possibility 2, but the only people who found out about the Skrulls were Mockingbird and Nick Fury.  The Skrulls could have prevented the information of their existence from ever coming out, keeping the Avengers together completely.  That Mockingbird didn't do this suggests possibility 1.

Basically what I'm saying is that the writers have some major hoops to leap through to make this all work without making the Skrulls seemingly working against themselves at some point.

[oldmanwinters]

Hey, a new episode of Avengers that advances a storyline!  My stars and garters! 

Spoiler

Nick Fury returns in this week's episode, with Mockingbird and Quake, I want to say, in tow, and looking a little more like Samuel Jackson.  He reveals to Tony that skrulls are infiltrating the planet, including the Avengers.  Hawkeye is their prime suspect for skrullification, but Tony concludes that any of the Avengers could be skrulls.  Ms. Marvel tries to take Hawkeye in to SWORD for questioning, and the team basically breaks up over it.  Cap rallies Hawkeye, Hulk and the Wasp to remain as Avengers, then later checks in with his skrully superior that everything went as planned.  That superior: Mockingbird!

This was a pretty solid episode.  We get real movement on a major storyline, the characterizations are generally well done, and Ms. Marvel confronts Hawkeye in a way where you can legitimately see both points of view -neither comes off as completely in the wrong.  That said, the ending concerns me.  We have 2 choices for Skrull-motivations: they either want the Avengers together as a useful weapon against their enemies the Kree, or they want the Avengers mistrustful and divided so they're out of the way of the Skrull Invasion.  Skrull-Cap rallies some of the Avengers to stick together, suggesting possibility 2, but the only people who found out about the Skrulls were Mockingbird and Nick Fury.  The Skrulls could have prevented the information of their existence from ever coming out, keeping the Avengers together completely.  That Mockingbird didn't do this suggests possibility 1.

Basically what I'm saying is that the writers have some major hoops to leap through to make this all work without making the Skrulls seemingly working against themselves at some point.

I tend to watch the 8pm Sunday airings of the Marvel Hour on Disney XD as opposed to the morning airing, so this episode's big reveals were totally ruined by the fact that Disney XD aired the preview for next week's episode immediately before re-airing this week's episode.  I was initially confused but soon ticked off.

[Podmark]

I saw the Korvac episode tonight. Seeing the DnA Guardians was a thrill, I was a big fan of that book. The characters all looked great but their voices were far from what I'd read them with.

[Previsionary]

I... need to catch up on this show, so I guess that should tell you all you need to know. USM, I've given up on.

[Talavar]

I saw the Korvac episode tonight. Seeing the DnA Guardians was a thrill, I was a big fan of that book. The characters all looked great but their voices were far from what I'd read them with.

I'd definitely agree with that.  Starlord and Rocket Racoon's voices I found downright jarring.

[oldmanwinters]

Wow, I totally didn't expect to see the Dwarvian Blacksmith in both Ultimate Spider-man and Avengers: EMH on the same day!

I liked both episodes, but I seem to remember last week's preview for Avengers would continue the Skrull plotline from last week.

[Talavar]

I forgot to comment on "the Ballad of Beta Ray Bill," namely that I'm shocked to be seeing an episode of a cartoon primarily focused on Beta Ray Bill.  Crazy stuff.

In other news, Avengers is taking a few weeks off, with no new episodes until near the end of June.  From episode descriptions though, it looks like the Secret Invasion storyline will become a major focus, to which I say: "thank Neptune."  This show has needed a major focus all season.

[detourne_me]

So about 6 new episodes just got *ahem* released.
Anyone else get caught up?

An amazing storyline... Quite focused and much stronger than the start of the second season

[Talavar]

So about 6 new episodes just got *ahem* released.
Anyone else get caught up?

An amazing storyline... Quite focused and much stronger than the start of the second season

Is that so....  I'll be back in a jiffy.

[captmorgan72]

Just watched them and now I am caught up. Between this and the Avenger movie, I really want to play a game with these guys. I find myself contemplating buying Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 again. I am a sucker for great graphics and part two has nice graphics.

[cripp12]

Is there anywhere I can get a list of all the episodes and description?
When are the xmen scheduled to come in.

[Talavar]

Is there anywhere I can get a list of all the episodes and description?
When are the xmen scheduled to come in.

Wikipedia.  Search for Avengers episodes and you'll find it.

[cripp12]

thanks. I had tried that but I didn't realize there were 2 pages.
the list page is perfect.

[oldmanwinters]

I'm hoping to take advantage of this re-run period to catch up on a few early Season 2 episodes that I've missed.  I watched this weekend (and thought the whole thing could be easily adapted as a loose script for Avengers 2!), but I'm disappointed I have yet to see "The Private War of Doctor Doom" if only to see the Fantastic Four and Skrull Invisible Woman!

I missed the whole last half of Season 1 (only got to see the first 14 episodes on borrowed DVDs), so I'm confused about a lot but still following along with interest.

I am very disappointed in DisneyXD for chopping up the intro theme song and superimposing a lame voice-over narration over the epic "Bad City" song.  I have no idea why they would ruin one of the best ever cartoon intros in recent memory like that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbHLEOg5RPo

The lyrics just fit so perfectly well with the characters:
-Tormented and attacked (Hulk)

-Lost from when we wake (Captain America)

-With no way to go back (Thor)

-I'm standing on my own, but now I'm not alone (Iron Man)