New Superman Movie

[Tawodi Osdi]

Considering that most modern fans were weaned on the animated cartoons and the comics of the last couple of decades, the original movies should be a non-factor regarding what should be done.  No one complained about the current string of Batman movies not being associated with the previous string, and the old string of Superman movies are a lot older than the Batman movies.  Pretty much, only old fogies, like myself, and dedicated fans are likely to remember much about them.

[BentonGrey]

Why can't they do it like the animated series:

Not to be Benton lite again but that would be the gold standard for me.

And what, pray tell, is wrong with that?

[Previsionary]

Why can't they do it like the animated series:

Not to be Benton lite again but that would be the gold standard for me.

And what, pray tell, is wrong with that?

Oh man, you want a list?

[BentonGrey]

Why can't they do it like the animated series:

Not to be Benton lite again but that would be the gold standard for me.

And what, pray tell, is wrong with that?

Oh man, you want a list?

Better than being a mini-Prev!  Could the world stand such horror?

[UnkoMan]

Oh Vandal Savage. I didn't think of him. He would be perfect, actually... Sort of like Superman's Ra's al Ghul.
Actually I was just thinking Despero would be a rad villain, but like Viking mentioned they probably wouldn't want to get too off-worldy with Superman, at least not at first. They've got Green Lantern for that.

As to all the people mentioning Darkseid, I really dislike that idea. I hate seeing Darkseid as a Superman villain. I much would prefer to see him as an entire planet villain. If they do a Justice League movie they had ought to use him, in my opinion.

But I'm still for Lex using other villains to do his dirty work, as long as they don't make any rad villains end up looking like throwaway punks, ala Nolan's Scarecrow. Anyhow, we'll have to wait and see.

[herodad1]

thats kinda funny. superman, the greatest super hero of all and no one to fight. he's SO super that in a movie theres no one that would give him a big enough challenge. lex luthor has been over used. 4 movies and its always lex luthor. *yawn*! just my opinion but he's got alot of lame villians considering he can move planets. thats why superman is way down on my fave list. they moved him into a super corner. captain marvel is better as far as a character but then his arch villians are a little bald guy and a worm. black adam is cool though. superman can do anything and everything , wonderwoman/captain marvel have the powers of gods, flash runs faster than light, green lantern can imagine anything and make it with his ring, and batmans mind is so deadly he can think of 20 ways to defeat you before the fight starts. then look at their villians. joker, penguin, lex luthor, toyman, cheeta, mirror man, ect...! thats why STAN is the man!

[Mr. Hamrick]

thats kinda funny. superman, the greatest super hero of all and no one to fight. he's SO super that in a movie theres no one that would give him a big enough challenge. lex luthor has been over used. 4 movies and its always lex luthor. *yawn*! just my opinion but he's got alot of lame villians considering he can move planets. thats why superman is way down on my fave list. they moved him into a super corner. captain marvel is better as far as a character but then his arch villians are a little bald guy and a worm. black adam is cool though. superman can do anything and everything , wonderwoman/captain marvel have the powers of gods, flash runs faster than light, green lantern can imagine anything and make it with his ring, and batmans mind is so deadly he can think of 20 ways to defeat you before the fight starts. then look at their villians. joker, penguin, lex luthor, toyman, cheeta, mirror man, ect...! thats why STAN is the man!

I think you're underselling both Flash and Batman's Rogue Galleries a great deal.  As for Superman...

The biggest problem with his rogue gallery is that it lacks the depth of Batman's for the most part. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superman_enemies

The major list is rather short considering the number of years that the ol' big blue boyscout has been around.  Out of that list, there are several Kryptonian and other worldly villains.  However, they are perfectly acceptable villains when used properly in the comics.  Furthermore, in the right story and with the right director, most of them would translate to film without too many adjustments.  Luthor gets used because he is the constant and is always lingering about.  He was misused in the movies in the 80s somewhat actually, in my opinion.  (Which is one of the reasons that Singer dropped the ball in his film.)

I like the villain structure used with great success in the Nolan Batman films.  Basically a 4 villain structure with two of them being major, one being a "mob" villain, and a cameo.  I think a similar villain structure could be used for the Superman movies with One major villain, one cameo, and Luthor in the background manipulating.  We see Luthor, we know he's the villain and Supes knows but proving it is another matter.  The major villain could be a character that Luthor is providing funding for (think a Metallo type) or Kryptonian in origin and Luthor forms a temporary alliance with them (Donner tried it with Superman II and failed because of the misuse of Luthor) and the cameo could be anything from Intergang to Livewire.   You could almost do two major villains with this format as well if the cards were played right.

As for rather or not Superman's villains are lame, a lot of the pre-crisis Superman villains were but it's gotten a little better since the early 90s.  I think the biggest problem is figuring out how to effectively use the villains given Superman's abilities. 

As for "Stan the Man", I have much respect for the guy but hardly feel he is infallible.  The Fantastic Four is a prime example of this as their rogue gallery leaves a lot of be desired once you move past Sub Mariner, Silver Surfer (both of whom are now their allies), Dr. Doom, Super-Skrull and Galactus.  There are others but it's hard to take them too serious.  As a matter of fact, several Marvel characters have a lot worse Rogue Gallery than Superman or Batman.  The worst of the bunch is The Hulk.  (A character who I pretty much abhor.)  Iron Man is not known for his Rogue Galleries' depth either.  The Avengers?  You got Ultron Thanos (I think) and Kang and then others brought from individual heroes.  That's it.    The only good Rogue Galleries are the X-men, Thor and Spiderman, pretty much.  So, Stan is far from batting 100.

[herodad1]

true mr. Hamrick, very true. like i said before...just my tiny, humble opinion. i do like flash's rogue gallery more than any for some reason. most (99%) of my DC stupidity comes from lack of DC knowledge. ive always liked MARVEL from age of 6. more of marvel's characters( villians ) are more evenly matched in my opinion or stronger than their arch foe. alot has to do with a persons preference DC or MARVEL. a fan will focus on their likes and overlook the truly silly stuff but not the other way around. what i wish they would do with superman is pin down just how he has all these powers. no saying because he's an alien. is his powers psionic, gravity, mutant, ect..? superman is a big super mystery to me.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Originally, Superman came from a high gravity planet, so all his powers came from that--high strength, high endurance, and a super high jump, essentially.  As he became more and more popular, they started throwing more and more powers at him.  I think it's kind of like the old Batman show.  If they had a problem for Batman to solve, the writers just created a new Bat-gadget out of nowhere to deal with them.  Same thing with Superman's powers.  Most were forgotten, but a few have stuck around ever since.

Of course, they no longer make that much sense, but at least they are better than some of the ones that have been forgotten.

[Talavar]

What I'd really like to see is Superman vs. an alien invasion.  Basically throw Superman at Independence Day or War of the Worlds - you've got the invaders' high technology AND  superior numbers to actually challenge Superman's abilities, showcase him fighting in orbit vs. their drop ships or starfighters, in cities vs. some kind of mechs, walkers or tanks, and finally one on one vs. their despotic superpowered overlord, who could be a version of several DC villains (Mongul, Despero, maybe Darkseid).  He could fight alongside the various military and police forces of earth to showcase his ability to inspire, and you also get the thematic contrast of Superman the benevolent alien vs. the invading malevolent ones.  It's also thematically strong because Superman is saving the whole world, contrasted with the destruction of his birth planet Krypton.

As to the "science" of Superman's powers, well, it doesn't make a lot of sense.  His cells are essentially vast solar batteries, absorbing energy from our sun.  That energy enhances his muscles and physical durability, increases his senses and speed, and can be used to power flight and heat ray vision.  If cut off from sunlight for long enough, Superman will expend his store of energy and be rendered powerless, he can't absorb light of some other spectrums (notably red), and radiation from Kryptonite interferes with his ability to absorb and make use of this stored energy.  Why?  Because it's a product of his alien physiology in our environment - and that's about as good an explanation as it gets. 

Early on, Superman's powers weren't just based on Krypton having high gravity - they were the product of Kryptonians being more advanced than humans, both technologically and evolutionarily.  That's why one of Superman's early tag lines was 'the Man of Tomorrow;' it implied that one day humans could be as advanced as his people, and have similar powers.  As power creep made Superman, and by association all Kryptonians, more and more powerful, as well as the realization of its unpleasant associations with eugenics and racial evolution,  this explanation for Superman's power was dropped.

PS. While a number of DC villains are weak, the Joker and Lex Luthor are the two best villains in comics.

[UnkoMan]

Hmm... that's a good idea. I could see maybe Superman's been doing things secretly for a while but the big alien invasion forces him into the spotlight, and after he defeats them the entire world is pretty much, "Holy crow, Superman is awesome!" Thus setting him up to be a big deal, which is he, and for Lex Luthor to totally resent him.

Also, thinking about it, lots of superheroes have lousy rogues galleries. Iron Man 2 used Whiplash as the main villain. I always thought that guy was lame in the comics, but he worked in the movie. Most of his villains who aren't the Mandarin are just guys in versions of his own armor (Hey Iron Monger!). So, I guess I'm not too worried about it.

But Hammy... Hulk is swell! And Leader is a rad villain. I also like Abomination, Absorbing Man, Bi-Beast, MODOK, Tyrannus. I even like seeing him fight Rhino or Juggernaut, even though those aren't his villains. Of course most of these guys are just "random super strong weirdo" but I've always dug that. It's what Hulk stories are about. Superman fighting a random super strong weirdo would be pretty lame. Unless that weirdo was a giant gorilla with laser eyes.

[Tawodi Osdi]

One area where Marvel villains over DC villains is that Marvel has longer history of sharing its villains between different heroes.  Who hasn't fought Dr. Doom, after all?  But, in DC, villains are tied to specific heroes with very little sharing.  Personally, I don't have a problem with a movie maker creating a new villain from scratch, and I don't feel that movies and comic books need to share the same continuity.  My complaint is when they change the character of a character I like.

[Mr. Hamrick]

Hmm... that's a good idea. I could see maybe Superman's been doing things secretly for a while but the big alien invasion forces him into the spotlight, and after he defeats them the entire world is pretty much, "Holy crow, Superman is awesome!" Thus setting him up to be a big deal, which is he, and for Lex Luthor to totally resent him.

Also, thinking about it, lots of superheroes have lousy rogues galleries. Iron Man 2 used Whiplash as the main villain. I always thought that guy was lame in the comics, but he worked in the movie. Most of his villains who aren't the Mandarin are just guys in versions of his own armor (Hey Iron Monger!). So, I guess I'm not too worried about it.

But Hammy... Hulk is swell! And Leader is a rad villain. I also like Abomination, Absorbing Man, Bi-Beast, MODOK, Tyrannus. I even like seeing him fight Rhino or Juggernaut, even though those aren't his villains. Of course most of these guys are just "random super strong weirdo" but I've always dug that. It's what Hulk stories are about. Superman fighting a random super strong weirdo would be pretty lame. Unless that weirdo was a giant gorilla with laser eyes. 

My issue with The Hulk actually is less to do with his rogue gallery and more to do with other factors.  I use to have the same issues with Wolverine that I have with The Hulk but Wolverine has grown on me a bit.  The Hulk never has.  I disliked pre-crisis Superman, too.

One area where Marvel villains over DC villains is that Marvel has longer history of sharing its villains between different heroes.  Who hasn't fought Dr. Doom, after all?  But, in DC, villains are tied to specific heroes with very little sharing.  Personally, I don't have a problem with a movie maker creating a new villain from scratch, and I don't feel that movies and comic books need to share the same continuity.  My complaint is when they change the character of a character I like.

I'm not sure why DC never has really gotten into doing that.  I would assume it's because in theory, the match-ups wouldn't be that good.

As for the movies creating a new villain, I'm all for it.  Especially if that villain can somehow be incorporated back into the comics in some cases.   I also prefer the idea of a similar but different continuity between the two as long as it makes sense.

[JeyNyce]

The thing with the Hulk vs the Leader was brains vs brawn.  With Lex & Supes it's more of a "why do we need worship an alien?  They should be worshiping me!"

[Talavar]

Various sites from around the net are reporting that blonde women are auditioning for the part of...

Spoiler

Ursa.  That suggests that the villains will be her and Zod, escaped Kryptonians criminals.  Let me be the first to give this news a hearty thumbs down. 

In other rumours, supposedly Olivia Wilde (House, Tron Legacy) has auditioned for the part of Lois Lane.

[BentonGrey]

If that rumor is true, that is not surprising, but it is pretty disappointing nonetheless.

[Trelau]

edit: wow, sorry about the spoiler fever
Really?

Spoiler

kneel before Zod!

is probably the most iconic thing/most beloved memory from the original Superman movie franchise; so i don't see why it's such a bad thing.
Or is it that you think that particular story doesn't need to be remade?
Anyway i'm all for it. It offers the possibility of having Luthor as a secondary villain

Spoiler

)collaborate with the kryptonaian, get his hands on some of their tech for later movies)

and most importantly givs us the possibility to be an origin movie without really being one:

Spoiler

No need to show krypton exploding, the kent finding the crashed spaceship and such. Act I, you begin the movie in metropolis, he's either already a hero or better yet becomes one for the first time to save lois lane; making him realise that his weird capacities he was told to hide since he was a  kid could actually be used to make a difference in the world.
Act II, Zod arrives, recognise him as one of his own and tries to recruit him, giving him all the background info an origin movie needs without needing to lose the first act to it. Training montage to show him learning about his powers and his heritage, maybe even finding a message of his father (carefully edited by Zod to helf supes make the wrong choice). Act III, supes realise they're evil, oppose them, classic grand finale battle. But in the end people fear that he could one day turn on them like Zod did. Post generic sequel-hook: luthor is asked to make a military controlled super freak of his own to ensure  the security of the world. Leading to bizarro controlled by luthor in the second movie, hopefully.

A reboot is the best thing that could happen to this franchise anyway. 1&2 are okay, we'll just pretend the others don't exist. But i still wouldn't show those to "convert" someone to the superman mytho. So if they manage a "light" origin in the movie (as to not alienate the older generation who knows evething about the character) plus an introduction of the two most iconic villains he had in the previous franchise (

Spoiler

Luthor and Zod

) then this would allow a new genration to join  the old fan for the possible sequel where they would have to pick as-yet unexplored villain (brainiac having been written out of three previous script and being almost present in superman 4 if i'm not wrong, he might be an obvious choice )
So, here's to hoping it won't suck

[BentonGrey]

Ehh Trelau, I don't have much of a problem with that set of villains in-and-of themselves, but what you said is about it:

Spoiler

We've already seen this.  There are a thousand and one great stories that could be told, and I for one really wish that they'd do Brainiac.  While Zod and co. do most everything I think they really need to do in a new Superman movie, I just feel like there are several other characters who could do those things better.  Most importantly, they can give Superman a good fight, which is an absolute necessity.  However, it's been done, and after the train wreck that was Returns, I'd rather we avoid anything that smacks of the Donner films, even the more positive elements of them.

[Talavar]

On that same topic...

Spoiler

Like Benton and Trelau have both said - Zod and Co. have been done, so having them as the villains isn't terribly interesting to me.  Like Benton, I also think any connection to the Donner films needs to be eliminated.  Sure, to people who grew up in the '80s "Kneel before Zod" is iconic, but people who grew up in the '80s also liked Ewoks.  Superman 2 isn't a great film by any means, particularly the edit most people from that decade actually saw (Cellophane S throw, anyone?  Memory wiping kiss?  The third, comic relief evil Kryptonian?). 

I'm also getting tired of the recent crop of superhero movies pitting the hero against basically villainous versions of themselves.  Iron Man has fought 2 bad guys in power armour at this point, and the Hulk fought the Abomination.  I don't need to see Superman fight two people who can do exactly the same stuff he can - let's see something different.

[Trelau]

Well Benton, i might be biased, but the thing is, I wasn't even born when those movies were released. I only saw them on tv in a badly dubbed way some 15 years later and...i didn't liked them the first time around. What Talavar said about the 80s feel and sometimes stupidity of these is true, and that's why i only liked them after learning to like the character (Superman Tas and later JLU) and getting curious about his history.
But like i said, i wouldn't ever show them as an introduction to the character, they've aged (in my opinion) relatively badly (as opposed to the Tim Burton's Batman who can still hold itself against the Nolan version)
We really need a new "updated" superman for a new generation, and i believe it should mean redoing what as already been done but in a new way. Batman had already fought the Joker played by Jack f**king Nicholson, i though they could never do better than that, and yet i think we can all agree that the other/new version of the Joker as now his place in his history.
So yes i think he should fight Luthor again, even if it's been done to death, because there's potential for something completely different.
Same goes for

Spoiler

Zod

, even the Smallville version had its merit. And with Snyder in command, whose fidelity/dedication to comic books is not to doubt, i believe he could pull something great, by keeping the good part of the old movies and removing the cheesiness (and executive meddling) inherent to the eighties.

Now about the trend of fighting the evil version of oneself in superhero movie...yeah, i admitt it's getting old; but it's also due to the rogue of some heroes (ironman DOES spend most of his time fighting guys who stole his tech). Maybe there'll be more than one villains in the movie, even having cameo of lesser known ones.
The problem will still be that his rogue gallery consit of 50% evil kryptonian, 25% aliens (green lantern's job) and 25% mutant/experiment gone wrong who needs there own origin (i don't think we can use Parasite, metallo, grundy or silver banshee without first explaining where they come from)

I thinki also accept the recycling of villains better because i'm already expecting the second and possible third movie, so i want the first one to take the safe route and give use a solid "see? that's superman" movie to show my nephew. Let them go wild in the sequels.

[Midnite]

First Look at Russell Crowe as Jor-El in Man of Steel

[thalaw2]

Laurence Fishburne as Perry White....wow! 

I wonder how they'll get Kevin Costner to keep his clothes on.

It really seems to be a cast full of stars so I hope DC delivers a great superman film.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I'm not really a Superman fan, but I think any "first" Superman film would be wise to use Lex Luthor, as he is one of, if not the most important Earthly enemy of Superman.  I'd like to see a combo of Luthor and Bizarro or Luthor and Metallo, to be honest.

Dana

[Talavar]

Laurence Fishburne as Perry White....wow! 

I wonder how they'll get Kevin Costner to keep his clothes on.

It really seems to be a cast full of stars so I hope DC delivers a great superman film.

Are we thinking of the same Kevin Costner?  When has he ever had trouble keeping his clothes on?  I don't remember a lot of male nudity in Field of Dreams or Waterworld....

[Tomato]

I'm not really a Superman fan, but I think any "first" Superman film would be wise to use Lex Luthor, as he is one of, if not the most important Earthly enemy of Superman.  I'd like to see a combo of Luthor and Bizarro or Luthor and Metallo, to be honest.

Dana

I disagree. While I think Luthor is important to the mythos overall, I don't think he really needs to be in every superman film. Looking at a movie like Fantastic Four, I honestly think they'd have benefitted from not having doom at all in the first film, and bringing him in later on. By contrast, Begins didn't jump at Joker, choosing instead to spend the next movie developing him.

[captmorgan72]

Lex should be in this. Not as the villian, but rather as the bystander who is helping both Supes and Zod for his own gain. Moving the pieces on the board, playing these two kyrptonians against each other. Planning his next move three steps ahead of the "aliens". If done right, Lex could shine in the movies. Oh yeah, have Michael Rosenbaum play him otherwise forget putting Lex in. 

[John Jr.]

Luthor was in four of the five earlier movies, the Superboy TV series, Lois and Clark, Smallville...
I'm very glad baldy will take a vacation, he'll probably be back in the sequel, but we need to see someone else in the next movie.

[thalaw2]

Laurence Fishburne as Perry White....wow! 

I wonder how they'll get Kevin Costner to keep his clothes on.

It really seems to be a cast full of stars so I hope DC delivers a great superman film.

Are we thinking of the same Kevin Costner?  When has he ever had trouble keeping his clothes on?  I don't remember a lot of male nudity in Field of Dreams or Waterworld....

And yet his best movies were those where he dropped trou.  Well, maybe they should let him direct himself into a nude scene.

[Midnite]

Superman Goes Shirtless in New Man of Steel Pics

He put me to shame.

[docdelorean88]

I do this not to re-hash an old topic, but because i just saw a design that had incorporated the trunks into the new suit's style, and it captured what i was imagining.

Spoiler