Convince me

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I've never played a real MMO before, but I'm quite interested in either this one or CO.  I'm liking COH, though, because it's older and more mature, has loads of cotent, and keeps getting new stuff added all the time, plus it's cheaper to get started.  I also like the fact that I can leave and still have my characters around to come back to, which with my fickle ever wandering interests is a very good thing. Thanks to the Steam sales, it's also a pretty good time to jump in.

I'm still on the fence though, so now's your chance to convince me.  What's good about the game?  What isn't?  What advice might you have for a potential new player?  Convince me that I should play it.

[DrMike2000]

I hadn't tried MMOs either three and a half years ago, Cat. I'm hooked now.
I highly recommend CoH.

The good:

The costume creator is awesome. You could get your moneys worth without ever stepping into Paragon City. You can now save and load costumes as files on your PC.

Its a mature game with balanced powersets. No powerset is any worse than 80% as effective as another now, despite what people may tell you. The many powersets means you wont run out of new characters for years.

It's a casual game if you want it to be. You gain Patrol XP for not playing a character, the death penalty is very mild, and it doesnt feel like a desperate grind these days, like it used to back when I started. All characters are pretty powerful to start with (designed to take on 3 minions of the same level by themselves) and grow from there.

Loot is not required. You can do amazing things with Invention Enhancements, but you dont need to use them ever, and can just stick to regular enhancements anad ignore the market if you want. You'll still be effective.

The playerbase are nice and helpful on the whole. You dont see much in the way of verbal abuse or spamming broadcast.

The sidekicking system is even better now, meaning its easier to find a team and operate at the appropriate combat level. At the same time, you can solo pretty much any character if no-one's around at the time.

There's heaps of content. The old stuff is a bit rubbish, but the newer content is quite cool. You could play through four or five characters at the same time and not get bored or find it repetitive.

Mission Architect allows you to make your own missions and even earn XP playing them. Its good, but if youve been involved in making FF mods its pretty restrictive.

The bad:

Character creation is tied to archetypes. You can't make a ranged character with defences and status effect protection very easily (like Iron Man) but the archetypes are versatile enough to allow most concepts. You can do the above as a Force Field Defender, for example. Two Tankers can be very different - a really tough Stone Tanker and a lighter more damaging Fire Tanker are two different creatures, for example. So the archetype system isn't too bad.

You have to wait till level 14 to get a travel power. So if your concept involves superspeed, teleporting, flight or leaping, tough. On the other hand, you can pick up a jetpack at level 5 by doing a bank mission, or get parkour style Ninja Run in the Martial Arts booster pack for $10 for the account.

Some things are tied to veteran rewards that really shouldn't be IMHO. If you want wings, you have to have played for 15 months. Unless you buy inventions for tech wings, bat wings or soem others. But feathery angle wings are out for the next 15 months. Boxing Gloves come at 39 months!!!

Status effects like stuns and holds can be a bit over the top sometimes. As a rule, melee characters get protection from these (and knockback) - ranged characters don't. This is not as bad as it used to be though.

My advice for new players

Try a Blaster first - the damage specialists. They're fun, they mature quickly. They can have problems at higher levels due to all the stuns and holds flying around, but if you play one first you'll appreciate the hardier characters like Scrappers (melee damage specialists) when you play them. On a Blaster, get Aim and Build Up, these provide short bursts of damage and accuracy to you.
Tanks and Defenders are both really good, but can be a real slog in the teens due to endurance issues. Maybe try them later on.

Plan to get Stamina at level 20. This requires two other power choices unfortunately. You will run out of endurance regularly otherwise. The exceptions are Regeneration Scrappers and Willpower melee characters, who get a replacement power.

Enhancements start at Training level. At level 12 you can start using Dual Origin (eg Mutant/Magic) and at 22 you can start on Single Origin (eg Mutant only). Single origin (SOs) are twice as good as Dual Origin (DOs) which are twice as good as Training.
Slot intialliy for end reduction in your attacks, and add some accuracy and damage as you get to the teens. By the time you have Stamina, aim to have your attacks slotted with 3 SO's for damage.

If you want to roleplay, go to Virtue. If you don't roleplay but like big teams, go to Freedom. All other servers are less populated than these two, so if you want to experiment in a quiet environment, go somewhere else.

Thats all I got for now. I'd say give it a go.

[rain]

I'll speak for the CoX side.

More content
We have ALOT more content. There are multiple levelling paths right now. You could run 5 different toons from 1-50 and never see the same thing twice if you didn't want to. And that doesn't count the user generated Mission Architect stuff. The game's had 5 years of semi-regular content updates and it shows. There's entire zones you might never see on the way from 1-50 heroside all of them stuffed with some pretty fun stuff.
The original content of the game from when it launched is showing it's age though.

A more customizable Experience
Not talking about the character creator here, more that you can do your own missions on your own terms in several different ways. I think the last issues changes to the "difficulty slider" gave the player alot of control over how they enjoy the game. Want to solo spawns meant for a team of 8, you can.... if you've got a weaker solo build and want to solo your story arcs, you can lower the difficulty enough to make it very quick, and still offer decent rewards.
If I want to solo from 1-50 I can.... if I want to build a pure team based toon, I can do that. All while still enjoying the content at my own pace.
I want to run general "radio missions" all day?.... I can.... I want to run a story arc, I can.... if I want to run a task force mission chain with a set group, I can.
This includes a reward system with many routes that I can choose.

Most importantly....
Coolest group of guys you could ever play with:
While the channel is quiet at times, we've got a core group of about a half dozen of us teamining nightly and a loose bunch of other regulars.
They are the best kinda folks... fun... supportive.... kind and always a hoot to do dumb stuff with.


I know CO has:
A better character creator
A more flexible character power build system
A Dang cool Nemesis system
More up to date "comic booky" visuals.

Personally I still love it.... I'm at about 40 months of active subcription time. Alot of people a burned out on it right now but I'm not.


That's not to say that it doesnt have problems.
1. PvP is pretty much broken. It's not important to me, but I think we've had one pvp night in 6 months. It was reasonably fun within the confines of the FR-NRF crowd, but on the wide scale this is not that important. I hear that CO's PvP was a *little* better. If PvP is a factor to you, keep this in mind. The PvP zones go widely unused.
2. Content Villian-side is, while superior, less bountiful.
3. There hasn't been a major content update in many many months. The devs have been working on Going Rogue Expansion content for a long time. This past year has given us only Cimerora (which is VERY light in terms of story) and a new Taskforce that is pretty much broken, villainside (the heroside one rocks though). That said we did get the Mission Architect this year and it's got more than enough decent playable missions to level several toons to 50. This does lend to a general enui of parts of the population.
4. The farming is killing the general teaming aspect of the game at higher levels. While this isn't a problem for me because I've got a good group of people to play with, general pickup teaming can be a very grim experience as people demand specific builds and solo artists get squishies killed with no real thought to it being wrong.


All this said... both games offer a free trial and if you can't find one for CoH, I'll gladly send you a refferal for one.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Didn't know about the trial, but I was able to find it easy enough.  I'm downloading and installing it now.

EDIT:  And it's going to take 1 1/2 to 2 hours.  Nuts.  Anyhow, I'll likely be fiddling with it some time this afternoon.

[Lionheart]

Dr. Mike and Rain hit it pretty much on the nose with regard to CoH. I'm a 40-month vet as well, and the QoL advancements made this past year (supersidekicking, power colorization, Mission Architect, etc.) have reinvigorated the game. I think a lot of what we have seen in the past few updates are spin-offs of the Going Rogue development.

As for CO, I can't off much. I was in alpha/beta for eight months and gave up on it. The best thing I got out of playing CO was better appreciation for CoH. Opinions will vary, of course. 

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Thanks for your help everyone.  I've played around with it a bit.  It seems fun, but I frankly don't see anything special about it that I couldn't get with a regular single player game being played multiplayer.  I'll probably fool around with it a bit more, but at this point it seems likely that I'll just let the trial account expire.

[BlueBard]

If you really want to give the game a chance, you should play one character up to level 14.  Any character.  It is indeed possible to do that (and beyond) within a 30 day trial period if you've got the play time.  You tend to gain more XP in a team, so unless you're set on soloing you should try to join a team.

The first few levels are same-old, same-old to the point where I prefer to spend a lot of time in the Mission Architect for the early levels.  You can easily create missions tailored to yourself that will help you level up.  THAT ability to roll your own very quickly is pretty darn unique, I think.  Your custom missions can be as simple or as complex as you want, the only limitation being the file size cap.

By level 14 you should have gained--

A travel power.  Essential to relieve the grind and also to give you a real taste of being super.  All of the travel powers are fun to use, but flight really gives you a sense of freedom.  Plus it helps squishy types stay out of melee range out-of-doors.

A decent number of powers from both your primary and secondary powersets.  Face it, this is what ultimately defines what your character can do.  Two or three powers just doesn't cut it for very long.

Ability to use multi-build.  Basically you can maintain two somewhat different versions of your character's powers and enhancements, which allows you to optimize.  Personally I like having a solo-optimized build and a team-optimized build.

More choices.  You're more able to go where you want, do the missions and story arcs you want to do, and play the way you want to play.  You'll have earned more influence/infamy to upgrade your enhancements and had an opportunity to unlock more content (maps, costume pieces, etc) in the Mission Architect when creating your own missions.  A lot more content opens up the higher you go. The maps tend to get more complex, too. At level 20 you get a second costume slot to play with.  At level 25 your character can gain access to the Ouroboros zone (Time Travel!) which allows you to replay a great many missions, some of which you may have outleveled before you could play through the first time.  

As has been pointed out, a lot of options have been unfortunately tied up in the Veteran Rewards system and in the optional bonus packs at $10 a pop.  But I can say with experience that once you've gotten a few of them (especially the choice of Nemesis Staff or Blackwand) you really start feeling the improvements in "quality of life".

Another thing you get over time are "Day Job" badges and accolades that provide you with extra benefits and even temporary powers... just for logging out in the right places!

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I only have a 14 day trial, not 30.  But on the other hand I can get the Good Vs. Evil for $5, and Architect Edition for $10, so I suppose I really don't lose much if I decide after another 30 days that I'm no longer interested, so I guess I may give it a shot.

As for joining a team, I'd love to, but don't have the foggiest how, nor could a I find a good forum or website about various teams.  My first toon could join the main FR team, if I could only learn how.  (EDIT) He's in Freedom, which I'm pretty sure is the right one.  (EDIT 2: And the steam sale is over, the day I was about to join Steam.  I guess, I remain an Impulse only man, and I go for the $5 GvE deal instead.)

[BlueBard]

Ah, there is a difference between joining a Supergroup -- which is basically equivalent to a Guild in other MMO's and which Freedom Reborn is -- and a team.  Supergroups are basically like the JLU or the Avengers in a sense.  Or a union, if you look at it that way.  The main benefit is the creation and upkeep of a base of operations.

There are teams you join with your buddies and pick-up teams which are basically whoever is available.  (There are good and bad pick-up teams and I've been on both kinds.)

A team is 2 - 8 characters who are able to share missions for the duration of the team, which is basically until everybody decides to quit.

The chat window has a clicky for Team and this is one way you can use to advertise your availability.  It is also one jumping off point for searching for others to invite to a team that you lead.  You are able to include a short message such as, "lvl 10 blaster LFT, PST first"  (translation: "Level 10 blaster looking for team, please send tell first.").  You can also click on names in the chat window, or right click on a character you can see.

A lot of people also advertise that they are looking for a team by sending a Broadcast message that goes to everyone in the same zone as you are in.  You can select your chat channel by clicking on one of the letters just above the text box.  B is for broadcast, L is for local, T is for Team, S is for Supergroup, etc.

The leader of the team is the person who selects the active mission for the team.  They are said to "have the star", which means they have control and this is indicated by a star next to their name in the team window.  The navigation bar also has a star on it which indicates the direction of your team leader relative to yourself.

Good teams might look for a certain archetype to round themselves out, but aren't too picky.  The team leader will be relatively patient and willing to communicate, but tries to keep everybody on the same page and doesn't wait around forever just because they can't find a certain archetype or the team isn't full.  Sometimes a good team will charge headlong into the action, but they change their tactics after a team wipe where everybody goes down.  Bad teams generally don't.  Basically, if you're getting a bad vibe from the others on your team or the team leader isn't doing their job, do yourself a favor and find another team.  Most of the time I can tolerate one team wipe.  It happens.  But two or more is a sign that you might want to part company real soon.

If you get knocked out after level 10, you can incur what's called XP Debt.  It's a deficit in your XP earnings that you have to "pay off" and slows down your advancement.  Before level 10 you don't have debt, so you can afford to take lots of chances.  Some folks just ignore it altogether.

[77]

Trial accounts are limited on many things mostly level cap, influ cap, and chat restrictions. The chat thing can make it hard for you to find anyone and for us to find you, best bet is to try and set up a time. I should be on the better part of the day if you post where and when youll be Ill look for ya.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Probably be on 6 pm EST.  I'll upgrade to full in a week or so, so that should help.  Handle is @catwho, and I haven't left Galaxy City yet.

[Reepicheep]

THERES your problem!

Go to Atlas instead.

[77]

Yea Atlas is the "hub" for lower level toons. and also once you go full version you can join the freedom reborn channel to keep in touch with mostly everyone from FR.

[BlueBard]

When I'm on, it's usually after 9 pm EST... and might be any hour of the night if I can't sleep.

@BlueBard

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Well, I'll try to make my way over at some point, but I'm already working on the tech missions where I am.  There are other heroes around anyhow.

EDIT:  77 took me around, showed me how jumping and flying worked, then I finished with Galaxy and went to Atlas, where I joined a pick up team and spent over 2 hours on a rather fun task force, went up three levels, and learned about playing in a team.  A good time was had by all.  Thanks for all your help and patience.

[BentonGrey]

Hey Cat, let me encourage you to try out the free demo of CO after your CoX runs out.  I hate the feeling of most MMO's, where it seems like you're just doing the same thing over and over again: click first power, while it's recharging, click 2, then three, rinse and repeat.  CO feels at least a bit different thanks to the ability to play with a game pad and the way the powers work.  I wish it were even MORE different, but I find the gameplay a good deal more visceral than CoX.  I like the setting a lot more too, as I feel like the characters and world I'm moving around in is interesting and relatively well fleshed out.  That isn't a feeling I really got in CoX.  I never particularly cared about any of the things I did.  In CO, I like smashing Viper (a lot like Cobra), and I have some idea of who they are and what they're about, etc.  It is still just getting started, and there are definitely areas that need improvement (Snake Gultch!), but on the whole I've really enjoyed playing it.  I'd love for you to join us, maybe bring some LB characters in to fight alongside The Rogue, Blue Guardian, and Ulysses.

[Tortuga]

Hands down, the thing that made CoH great was the FR community.  Whenever I've tried CO (I was in alpha, beta and I've done a trial or two) and from reading the CO forums, it seems rather lacking in that regard.  MMOs are about the people you play with...otherwise you may as well be playing a single player game, which is what ended up happening in CO.