To Share or Not to Share, That is the Question

[AfghanAnt]

I'm taking a page from tommyboy's book to see just how people feel about content distribution (as it is my only concern in this whole forum wide crossover despite what other people think). It doesn't matter if you make content or if you just use it (though we all know where I stand on that), I just want your honest opinion.

We need to figure this situation out as soon as possible so all this hating can come to an end because honestly this is worse than the whole Boxxy situation over at /b/.

No flaming please or trolling.

KTHANXBAI

[Vertex]

can I make two votes? I believe the artists all need to decide and write it down.. and I think even if they do.. you can't do a damn thing about it.

[Podmark]

AA what's your question exactly?
Is it who (how) should (we) settle content disputes? Or who controls content?

[tommyboy]

Good topic.
I would have voted for a combo of "community consensus" with a "creators individual override" on that. If that option was there. (But you can only have so many options before it becomes ridiculous, so I'm not asking you to add new options).
Anyway, thanks.

[AfghanAnt]

AA what's your question exactly?
Is it who (how) should (we) settle content disputes? Or who controls content?

My question is about what my concern was with Bent's mod. Can anyone be allowed to just take bunk content, package it together, and make it available?

I added another option per Tommy's comment.

[murs47]

Once I place my files on the internet I accept that fact that anything and everything could happen to it, positive or negative. If I didn't want it being distributed in a certain way then I just wouldn't share it. This isn't a job to me, I do this for fun. Then I share it. I could care less what happens after. People can download them or not. Kitbash them, re-color them, touch them up, print out and use them as toilet paper because they hate me(it happens). I don't care. I'm not getting paid to do this.


This is my opinion. I'm very closed minded and set in my ways so any kind retort would be a waste of your time. I don't question other people's opinions and I would like that same courtesy returned to me. Thank you, have a glorious night.

[Podmark]

print out and use them as toilet paper because they hate me(it happens).

That's brilliant idea!  I'm doing that tonight!!

[murs47]

print out and use them as toilet paper because they hate me(it happens).

That's brilliant idea!  I'm doing that tonight!!

It's not an idea....people are doing it! Ask Prev.

[BentonGrey]

Howdy AA, I'll have a PM headed your way shortly.  I believe what I have always believed, that the content creator (singular) gets to decide how his or her content shall be used, and that always overrides everything else.  It is also important, however, that, unless stated in clearly codified rules, we cannot tell content creators how they can use their work.  I think this is a good idea AA, and I hope that it continues in this reasonable and peaceful vein. 

[TaskMasterX]

There's only once instance where the community has control over the release of anyone's content, and that is when the content is explicit or is on a site with explicit content. Other than that, it's always up to the creator themselves on how their stuff is released or distributed. Since the former instance doesn't apply here, I'm voting for the creator's of the content.

[Volsung]

So do I.
That's logical that the creator settle the rules of his own creation.

(This is my first post in the crisis of infinite post^^)

[Blitzgott]

I believe that creators should have full control over what they have created. Had I created any content, I would certainly not like it if someone told me that I do not have the last word on its use.

This does not stop me from defending the DCUG mod. In the DCUG thread, many times it was mentioned that BentonGrey had asked to and was given proper permission by the creators of the content he used in his mod before including any of it. I also do not remember any creator denying such claim. In this case, there should be nothing wrong with the mod. If the creators themselves, who have full control over their content, do not mind it if their work is distributed as torrent or as extra content in a mod, I don't see why is there a reason for discussion.

I believe that this whole discussion began because some of the content-creators did not pay enough attention to BentonGrey's intentions when he first presented the idea of his mod. Had they done so, those who did not agree with the idea of BentonGrey's mod could have simply denied the inclusion of their content while it was still in proccess of development. Instead of doing this, they decided to exercise their rights when it was already "too late"; when the mod had already been released. I believe that it is also worth mentioning that it is never too late to exercise one's rights, specially in this case, when Benton has said himself that he has no problems with removing any content from his mod that he is asked to.

Was there damage? Yes. For the short period the mod was avaliable for download, some users have got it. But the mod is gone now, nobody knows when it will (if it will) come back, and if it does, it will, hopefully, be a proper release, with proper permission from the creators of the included content who, hopefully, this time, will be fully aware of BentonGrey's intentions before they choose to give him or not permission to user their content.

Note: This post is not meant to sound agressive. It is just an honest opinion by someone who has keeping tabs in the discussion. While some of this post is directed to a group of people, it is not directed particulary to anyone in special, and said portion was only written down for purpose of getting my point across. If you feel offended by it, please feel free to ignore it. I've had enough of the agressive tone of yesterday's discussion (which I admit to have contributed to).

I am now officially withdrawing from not only this thread, but from this discussion as whole.

[Volsung]

I think that's not exactly the question of that Pool.
If a creator stated that his creations are 'free to use as long as credited'. I guess including those credited creations in a pack does not break their rule.

[Podmark]

This does not stop me from defending the DCUG mod. In the DCUG thread, many times it was mentioned that BentonGrey had asked to and was given proper permission by the creators of the content he used in his mod before including any of it. I also do not remember any creator denying such claim. In this case, there should be nothing wrong with the mod. If the creators themselves, who have full control over their content, do not mind it if their work is distributed as torrent or as extra content in a mod, I don't see why is there a reason for discussion.

I believe that this whole discussion began because some of the content-creators did not pay enough attention to BentonGrey's intentions when he first presented the idea of his mod. Had they done so, those who did not agree with the idea of BentonGrey's mod could have simply denied the inclusion of their content while it was still in proccess of development. Instead of doing this, they decided to exercise their rights when it was already "too late"; when the mod had already been released. I believe that it is also worth mentioning that it is never too late to exercise one's rights, specially in this case, when Benton has said himself that he has no problems with removing any content from his mod that he is asked to.

Was there damage? Yes. For the short period the mod was avaliable for download, some users have got it. But the mod is gone now, nobody knows when it will (if it will) come back, and if it does, it will, hopefully, be a proper release, with proper permission from the creators of the included content who, hopefully, this time, will be fully aware of BentonGrey's intentions before they choose to give him or not permission to user their content.

I don't think that's the issue at all.

The main issues being thrown around are:

• the question of whether Benton's mod breaks a rule banning mass content packages
• Whether the rule should exist
• concerns over potential monopolies both in the existence of a sandbox DC mod AND through mass content packages

If I'm missing anything let me know. It's good to know what we're actually fighting about.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

The creator should be able to do anything he dog gone well pleases with the excepted of selling work on a non licensed copyrighted character.  If wants to included it in a mass download fine.  If he doesn't, fine.  If he only wants it included in mods released during a full moon on a Tuesday, odd, but fine.

[Blitzgott]

I don't think that's the issue at all.

The main issues being thrown around are:

• the question of whether Benton's mod breaks a rule banning mass content packages
• Whether the rule should exist
• concerns over potential monopolies both in the existence of a sandbox DC mod AND through mass content packages

If I'm missing anything let me know. It's good to know what we're actually fighting about.

I don't think Benton's mod breaking rules or not is the issue in this particular thread. From what I've understood (I may be wrong), the purpose of this thread is to decide who should have the most active voice (roughly speaking) when it comes to content distribution. The poll's options are: creator, community, compromise between community and creator... It's all written there. Anyway, this would not have been the first time I've been wrong, so please do elaborate on what you think I may have missed, if you feel the need to.

[Podmark]

I don't think that's the issue at all.

The main issues being thrown around are:

• the question of whether Benton's mod breaks a rule banning mass content packages
• Whether the rule should exist
• concerns over potential monopolies both in the existence of a sandbox DC mod AND through mass content packages

If I'm missing anything let me know. It's good to know what we're actually fighting about.

I don't think Benton's mod breaking rules or not is the issue in this particular thread. From what I've understood (I may be wrong), the purpose of this thread is to decide who should have the most active voice (roughly speaking) when it comes to content distribution. The poll's options are: creator, community, compromise between community and creator... It's all written there. Anyway, this would not have been the first time I've been wrong, so please do elaborate on what you think I may have missed, if you feel the need to.

Well you're right about this thread. I was talking in general the problems we've had.
Is anyone actually arguing that the creators shouldn't have final say? We've always done things that way.

[BentonGrey]

I don't really think that my mod should be at issue here.  AA was trying to start up a discussion of the underlying issues that DIDN'T dissolve into a furball over whether or not the DCUG should be released, and bravo to him for the effort.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

i mean i have full creative control over my work sure, but my actions could ruin it for everyone else somehow. in the past we were large enough to take hits. and we took several hits like this. but there isn't many of us left now to take hits like this. where do my rights end and the community's kick in?

Which is highly subjective and also irrelevant.  If you really believe that you simply won't let your work be used in that way.  If you don't believe that, then too bad for anyone else. That sounds harsh, but freedom is a two way street.

[daglob]

While I voted that the creator should have control, I realize that by posting stuff on the internet I relinquish that control to a great extent. I can't stop people from kitbashing my stuff or putting it in mods or even claiming it as their own. All I can do is ask for common courtesey, and hope that it will be provided. I don't know if you can reverse-engineer a mesh, but the meshers are in a similar situation.

Once that little bird is on the wing, it may be gone forever.

That said, the community does have some control. If a mod were created that used our skins and meshes in ways that we did not approve (like a Hustler version of The Avengers or JLA), and violated the spirit of Freedom Force, for instance. Something like the past couple of weeks would ensue, except with more emotion. What if the creator was not as concientious as Benton, and refused to pull the mod? At that point, the community would have no control over the content. Unless we all pulled together and simply refused to download the material, banned the perpetrator from the forum, and otherwise refused to have anything to do with him/her. But, the material would not cease to exist. 

The amount of control the creators have over material they have released actually depends on the community at large. Without the courtesey of community, we creators have no control. 

Of course, without us creators, y'all don't have anything new to play with.

[Vertex]

While I voted that the creator should have control, I realize that by posting stuff on the internet I relinquish that control to a great extent. I can't stop people from kitbashing my stuff or putting it in mods or even claiming it as their own. All I can do is ask for common courtesey, and hope that it will be provided. I don't know if you can reverse-engineer a mesh, but the meshers are in a similar situation.

Once that little bird is on the wing, it may be gone forever.

That said, the community does have some control. If a mod were created that used our skins and meshes in ways that we did not approve (like a Hustler version of The Avengers or JLA), and violated the spirit of Freedom Force, for instance. Something like the past couple of weeks would ensue, except with more emotion. What if the creator was not as concientious as Benton, and refused to pull the mod? At that point, the community would have no control over the content. Unless we all pulled together and simply refused to download the material, banned the perpetrator from the forum, and otherwise refused to have anything to do with him/her. But, the material would not cease to exist. 

The amount of control the creators have over material they have released actually depends on the community at large. Without the courtesey of community, we creators have no control. 

Of course, without us creators, y'all don't have anything new to play with.

You sir are a brilliant man.

[Figure Fan]

It's the artist's decision, basically.

If someone made a mod, and included the work of various creators (with their permission), then that's where the dispute ends.