Incredible Hulk

[Pyroclasm]

The first Hulk movie was great.  It wasn't as good as Spider-man, but it was leaps beyond Fantastic Four.  Fantastic Four had me checking my watch to see when the pain would stop.  I would put Hulk ahead of all of Marvel's movies except the Spider-man trilogy, Blade or X2.  I own a copy of Hulk and have watched it no less than 7 times.  I'm hoping though that Cat is right and they do not fully discount his previous movie origin even if they go with a different cast, crew and method of storytelling.  I'm just afraid that this might end up being like X3: dumbed down with the action taking precedence over story and characterization.

[steamteck]

To each his own. Hated hated hated the Hulk, Bought the DVD of Fantastic Four.

[Gremlin]

Okies, now that Lent's over, I can watch videos again, and I have to say this new Hulk looks so much more fun than the first one.

[DMenacer]

From the New York Time

What's Big and Green, and Desperate to Be a Hit All Over?

The Hulk from "The Incredible Hulk," a coming film starring Edward Norton that has attracted some negative buzz.
By BROOKS BARNES
Published: April 10, 2008

LOS ANGELES — Bad buzz. Creative infighting. Superhero gridlock at the multiplex. For Marvel Studios, handling gamma rays is starting to look like a cakewalk compared to turning "The Incredible Hulk" into a movie franchise.

The unjolly green giant, born from a botched gamma bomb experiment in a 1962 comic book, belongs to an elite class of superhero. In Marvel's stable of characters, which includes the X-Men and the Silver Surfer, only Spider-Man outsells him. The Hulk, along with his emotionally withdrawn alter ego, Dr. Bruce Banner, has spawned television shows, theme-park rides and best-selling toys.

But big-screen glory has eluded him. In 2003 "Hulk," a pricey attempt to give the monster a Spidey-size movie career, flopped after the director Ang Lee's artsy creature was ridiculed as Gumbyesque. That picture, which cost $150 million to make, sold a disappointing $132 million in tickets in North America and made less overseas.

Now Marvel is attempting what it openly calls a do-over. Starring Edward Norton, "The Incredible Hulk," set for a June 13 release, will serve up more action (Hulk battles a new creature called Abomination) and more female-friendly themes. (Banner is madly in love.) The monster was mute in Mr. Lee's film, but this one speaks, a nod to the campy 1978-82 television series that starred Bill Bixby and the bodybuilder Lou Ferrigno (resplendent in green body paint).

Marvel and its distribution partner, Universal Pictures, expect "The Incredible Hulk" to be nothing short of a blockbuster, citing strong sales for a newly introduced "Hulk" comic book series as one reason for optimism.

"We are really proud about how the new film came out," said David Maisel, chairman of Marvel Studios. "The 2003 movie was like test-driving a car. We were able to see what people liked and did not." But signs of trouble abound, leading to lip-biting among some Marvel investors, Hulk fans and movie theater owners. "There are people who clearly don't think it looks good and are expecting a bomb," said Doug Creutz, an entertainment analyst at Cowan & Company.

The trailer, engineered to vanquish memories of the 2003 film, arrived last month and instantly polarized the comic book crowd. The look of the new Hulk — meaner and greener — won praise from some fans online, but several influential tastemakers held their noses.

Entertainment Weekly pronounced the computer-generated effects "totally fake-looking," while obsessedwithfilm.com deemed the project "just hideous."

And then there's the bickering among the creative team.

Mr. Norton and Marvel, which has the right of final approval on the film, have sparred in recent weeks over trims, among other issues, said studio executives involved, who asked to remain anonymous as they were not authorized to speak publicly. Mr. Norton — who was hired to rewrite the script along with playing the lead — has made it clear he won't cooperate with publicity plans if he's not happy with the final product, these people said.

A spokeswoman for Mr. Norton said he had no comment. Mr. Maisel brushed off the friction as par for the course.

"When you get to this point in the process, there are always lots of passionate discussions," he said. "Edward is very passionate. He is as passionate about the Hulk as we are." (For those unaccustomed to Hollywood speak, "very passionate" roughly translates to a seven on the "he's a difficult person" scale.)

Even if everything were running smoothly, "The Incredible Hulk," which has a budget of about $150 million, would probably be having a difficult time generating excitement. With studios in hot pursuit of franchises, superheroes are booked elbow to elbow at the summer multiplex. Seven movies built around larger-than-life characters will vie for attention between May and August, including Batman's latest adventures ("The Dark Knight") and "Hancock," which stars Will Smith as a misanthropic superhero. "Iron Man," with Robert Downey Jr. as a wealthy industrialist who builds an armored suit, arrives next month from Marvel and Paramount.

Even Stan Lee, a creator of the Hulk and Iron Man characters, seems underenthused about the prospects of his green baby. "My prediction is that it will be more popular than the last one," he said. His "Iron Man" prediction? "Enormous hit," he said.

Universal Pictures, which will distribute and market "The Incredible Hulk," bristles at the notion that the monster needs C.P.R. "I would caution anybody against betting against it," said Adam Fogelson, Universal's president for marketing and distribution.

Mr. Fogelson said the trailer for "The Incredible Hulk" had generated more streams online than any previous Universal trailer. He also said the movie had the largest number of licensing and promotional partners of any Universal project in 2008, although he would not name any.

Universal noted that Mr. Norton's Hulk, according to a recent poll on the ticket-selling Web site Fandango, is the fourth "most anticipated new character portrayal" of the summer. (Over all the movie ranked as the seventh "most anticipated summer 2008" movie.)

As for competition, Marvel and Universal plan to use the giddiness around "Iron Man" to their advantage. A second "Hulk" trailer will run in conjunction with "Iron Man," and Mr. Downey will make a cameo in "Hulk" as Iron Man.

Despite these promising signs — and an insistence that Mr. Lee's film has gotten a bum rap — Marvel and Universal are definitely trying not to repeat their mistakes in 2003. They have held back on showing any footage of the new monster until they are satisfied with the effects. Last time Universal broadcast a Super Bowl ad that quickly prompted the Gumby comparisons, and the studio ended up plowing $20 million into extra special effects.

One detail in the first film that irked fans — the Hulk grows to three different sizes depending on his level of annoyance — has been eliminated. This time he will be a uniform nine feet tall. The two studios are also playing down Banner's loser tendencies and playing up Hulk as a hero.

Perhaps the most obvious difference is that the new movie will stick closer to the television show, which is most people's point of reference for the Hulk. That's partly why the producers added back the word "incredible" to the title. In another nod, Banner's eyes glow bright green when he starts to get angry.

Some fans have picked up on the differences.

"In reading the early hype on the movie, I was concerned that Marvel would seek to dumb down the character in reaction to the failure of the 2003 film," said Charlie Brooks, the moderator of a Hulk message board at comicboards.com. "The trailer gave me hope."

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Strange that the article said that the Hulk speaking would be a nod to the TV series--given that he never speaks in the series either.  I guess the writer of the article just didn't know what he was talking about, which annoys me.

Regardless, I have great hopes for this movie, and some of the thing's I've heard give me more hope.  As for the Hulk's look--this is probably a character that just can't translate into a real life movie all that well as far as his appearance.  That's okay, he won't look perfect and I accept that.  He seems to look decent enough, and I'm not going to nitpick further than that.

[Uncle Yuan]

This article strikes me as a really, really clumsy attempt to create a controversy.  Granted the new H probably won't be the next spider-man, but that's a very long road from making it a bad film.  A moody actor?   (In Hollywood?!  Heaven forbid!!) Lee uses one more adjective for Iron Man than Hulk and he's down on the project?  (Want to bet he was on some sort of Iron Man junket?).  A couple of self-appointed (?self-important?) "taste makers" thinks the big H looks cheesy? (flying in the face of fairly widespread fan acclaim to the trailer).  Tempest in a teapot.

:bangs shoe on table: It's yellow entertainment journalism, I tells ya!!!

[thalaw2]

I wouldn't wipe myself with that article.

[BWPS]

 :wub: Mmmm.... Edward Norton.  :wub: :wub: :wub:

[Midnite]

Don't read further, if you don't want to know stuff! You have been warned!!!!






The preview of The Incredible Hulk was suppossed to start at 3PM in the IGN Theatre at the NYCCC. Unfortunately, a crowd of at least 1,000 of us were left cooling our heels until almost 4PM due to another movie studio running their presentation too long. Needless to say, many of us were not happy! The convention was over at 7PM, The Incredible Hulk presentation was suppossed to be done at 4PM, so it cut into a lot of shopping & other presentations that I wanted to attend. Thankfully, after we all got seated (filling the theatre to capacity!) we were in for a special time!

On stage were Tim Roth (Abomination), Louis Lettier (director), Kevin Feige (Marvel Studios), and Gale Anne Hurd(?) (producer). In a surprise move, they brought out Lou Ferrigno!

The Incredible Hulk 5-10 minute clip....

It opens with General "Thunderbolt" Ross (William Hurt) walking with Emil Blonsky (Tim Roth) in a hanger (?). They are discussing the process they are going to perform on Emil. Apparently, Marvel is setting up future movies (as you will read at the end of my tale!) and seem to be introducing the Super Soldier Formula. Of course, Captain America was created using the only known sample of the Super Soldier Serum along with the stabilizing effects of the Vita Rays in 1941. The plan was to turn ordinary soldiers into peaks of human perfection in the effort to thwart the Nazis. Unfortunately, a Nazi assassin/spy shoots & kills Professor Erkstine, the creator of the Super Soldier Serum. Erkstine had committed the formula to memory & had not written anything down, so that the secrets of the Super Soldier Program would not be discovered by the Axis powers. This resulted in the creation of Captain America, the only super soldier.
Ross explains to Blonsky that he must be informed of any side-effects. We then see the very painful process that Emil Blonsky endures. Now we cut to a college university(?) and Ed Norton as Dr. Robert Bruce Banner. Apparently, Banner has been discovered by Ross & his troops! The university has been invaded by the US military. Banner is seen running through an elevated glass/brick tunnel that connects two buildings at the university. Ross has his men aiming at Banner. They shoot tear gas canisters into the elevated passageway. As the gas begins to disperse from the canisters, Bruce spies another player down below---Betty Ross (Liv Tyler)!
The army seems to be manhandling her and restricting her access to Banner. She breaks free & screams for Bruce as she begins running across a green field towards the passageway where Banner is trapped. Soldiers pursue her. In one of my favorite scenes, acting like the Betty of the comics, she elbows one of the soldiers who drops to the ground bleeding from his mouth and nose. The other soldiers grapple and restrain her. Bruce looking down at the chaos is none too happy even as his escape route fills with the tear gas! You know what's coming next, right?
Banner bangs his hands against the glass and screams for them to let Betty go! As the gas engulfs him, his eyes turn green! He is now completely obscured in smoke. We cut to a slightly backwards, side view of Banner in the tunnel. Straight out of issue #1 of The Incredible Hulk, comes the transformation we've been anticipating! We are thrilled to see his boots splitting open, looking as if the late, great,co-father of Marvel Comics, Jack Kirby had drawn it himself! Now we see the fists smashing through the glass of the elevated passage. The Hulk breaks free and leaps upwards, finally landing on the field below to confront Ross and his troops. He bellows a mighty roar and then begins his counter offense!
The Hulk battles the military might of Ross' armored troops---guns, tanks, jeeps, etc...He tosses them about like a child on a rampage! Finally, Ross pulls back his men and tells Emil Blonsky that, "he's up." Emil, now apparently enhanced with the Super Soldier Serum, directly confronts the Hulk. He leaps around like Captain America, avoiding the Hulk's blows and landing some of his own! It seems as if Blonsky has tired out our monstorous hero! They now stand, sideways, facing one another. The 9'(should be 7' folks, but better than Ang Lee's 15') Incredible Hulk looks down at this "puny human" soldier not knowing what to make of him and angry that he couldn't get his paws on him. Emil looks up at him and says, "is that all you've got?" The Hulk responds by kicking him in the chest.

CUT!

The crowd goes nuts in applause!

We now move to a Q&A phase. About 10 of us line-up (including me!). Most of the questions are mundane & have little to do with the movie. One guy is roundly booed for praising the Ang Lee film and asking Leterrier how he is going to "honor" it in this new one? Kevin Feige states that Lee's film had some great parts, but what's different about this new film is that it kicks arse! Someone asks Gale Anne Hurd about the troubles with Norton. She agrees that he is very intense and that he is taking this film very, very seriously. That has caused disagreements about the length and cut. She says that Norton is totally committed to this movie and was just in the editing room with her days ago. Despite the disagreements, (Marvel wants a shorter, concise, fast paced action picture after the failure of Ang Lee's previous cerebral outing, while Ed Norton (who rewrote much of the script) and the director, Louis Leterrier
, want a longer, more explanation filled movie) she says that Ed wants this film to succeed, that he really believes in it. One of the panel members suggests that we read this week's Entertainment Weekly in which Ed Norton's side is revealed and hopefully all this can be put to rest. Unfortunately, I never get to ask my questions....

1. As much as I love what I have seen, I am very disappointed by the "reimagining" of the Abomination's appearance. Perhaps, the general movie-going public is oblivious to the Abomination's existence, but to those of us, who have followed the Hulk's comic book adventures as children, the Abomination is our most beloved villain. I mean----why not include his trademarked ears?!?!?!?

2. I am happy with the inclusion of long-time Incredible Hulk supporting character, Dr. Leonard Samson. Will we see a gamma induced transformation come his way in The Incredible Hulk II ?

The reason that I didn't get my chance at the mike was because of the surprise appearance of Lou Ferrigno, who got a standing ovation! Lou was invited to sit on the panel. Director Leterrier states that he dislikes "cameo" walk-on appearances in films. He says Lou will actually have a role in the film and that some of it is quite funny! Hopefully, we will see a stare down between the two Hulks! Leterrier
then talks about fans constantly asking if this Hulk will speak & he looks at Ferrigno. Lou says that he thinks it had always been a mistake not to have Hulk speak in the TV show. Leterrier asks him if he wants the job now? ***Now we don't know if Leterrier
was joking or not. He did say that, "you guys really want to hear Hulk say "Hulk SMASH!", don't you?" This of course met with lots of applause! We'll see! I really hope that they realize that the Hulk is not mute in any way & allow him to speak in this film!**** At the conclusion of Leterrier's discussion with Ferrigno, they had Lou roar----"Hulk SMASH!!!" That really met with a round of applause!
Things that were gleaned from the panel....

- Leterrier had many, many images from The Incredible Hulk comic books through the years posted all around his office for inspiration. He said that while viewing the film the other day that he was quite happy that each and every image has made the cut into the film!

-Leterrier stated that not only was the comic book used as source material and inspiration, but also was the TV show. The whole panel went on glowing about Bill Bixby's work and how it truely set the tone for what is to come.

-Leterrier said that he was working with the composer on the score this past week and that it is very, very good....STAR WARS good!

The panel then announced that they would show us the previously unseen new trailer for The Incredible Hulk! They also said to wait about 15 seconds before leaving to see something that has been rumored for months (and leads me to believe the connection between future Marvel films that I have talked about earlier!)

The trailer opens. It includes footage from the teaser trailer, scenes from the little preview we had seen earlier, and more new Hulk scenes. The one scene that I loved was a shot of Betty and Hulk sitting together, perched on a cliff, perhaps talking? That comes directly out of this issue, drawn by Dale Keown---



and fulfills the director's pledge of including actual scenes from the comic!

As the trailer closes, the lights stay down and we are in for a very short tease...

On the screen, we see General Ross, sitting alone at a table in some rural bar. A well dressed man enters and walks over to Ross. It's Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark (Iron Man)! He says that he hears that Ross needs some help with "his problem." Ross says, "my problem? What about YOU'RE problem?"

The crowd goes nuts! The lights return. The panel is over and we are told that the new Hulk movie poster will be available at the Marvel booth.

The End!

[GhostMachine]

They SHOULD have Lou Ferrigno do the Hulk's voice; he did it for the Hulk cartoon series that was on UPN back in the 90s and did a pretty awesome job.

As for the Abomination....ugh. He looks more like Bi-Beast with only one face than the Abomination, quite frankly.

I'm betting the next movie will probably have the Leader (I've heard Sam Sterns is in this one) and Doc Samson in it.

[zuludelta]

As for the Abomination....ugh. He looks more like Bi-Beast with only one face than the Abomination, quite frankly.

Would that make him a Uni-Beast or just a plain Beast?

I'm not going to take the Abomination's lack of webbed ears against the film's design team, though... in many instances, the decision to go with one design element over another is ultimately made by a "suit" and not by somebody who's actually familiar with the property. In fact, here's how I imagine the early design meetings went:

Movie Exec: (looking at concept sketch of Abomination) Why does he have webbed ears? Is he an amphibian or something?

Designer: Uh, no sir, we made him with webbed ears 'cause that's how he's always been drawn in the source material.

Movie Exec: I don't like it... it makes him look like he crawled out of a swamp, lose the ears.

Designer: Uh, sir, you do realize that amphibians don't have external ears, much less webbed ears, right? I think many of the people who are familiar with the Abomination character might take issue with him losing the distinctive ears.

Movie Exec: I've been in this business a long time kid, and trust me, I know what people want, and webbed ears isn't one of them. Now lose the ears, and while you're at it, give him bones coming out of his spine... people are terrified of skeletons, so the more protruding bones on this Abomination character, the better.

[Carravaggio]

this seems frighteningly accurate

[TheMarvell]

this seems frighteningly accurate

I concur. You got that down way too good, Z. Have you ever seen the movie "The Player"?

[zuludelta]

this seems frighteningly accurate

I concur. You got that down way too good, Z. Have you ever seen the movie "The Player"?

The Robert Altman movie? Sadly no. But I've been in enough production meetings to gain a sense of the sometimes ridiculous reasoning that goes on behind the scenes when it comes to design decisions.

[TheMarvell]

You should see the movie then. It's a funny take on Hollywood execs, mixed in with a murder story. It's quite good. Also, have you seen An Evening With Kevin Smith? He talks about his encounter with one of Hollywoods big producers when asked to write a script for a Superman movie in the 90's, and the producer had silly ideas that would later be used in Wild Wild West, lol. Your mock dialog reminded me so much of that.

also, am I the only one not thrilled by this new "marvel hero crossover/cameo" thing about to happen? I thought it was agreed upon that they wouldn't do any crossovers in the movies and just have each hero in their own universe? I'm just not too keen on it.

[crimsonquill]

also, am I the only one not thrilled by this new "marvel hero crossover/cameo" thing about to happen? I thought it was agreed upon that they wouldn't do any crossovers in the movies and just have each hero in their own universe? I'm just not too keen on it.

No, that was agreed upon because with Marvel originally not having a Hollywood Production role and being forced to sell off their rights to seperate movie companies that it would be impossible to make it happen. But if each Marvel comic never was allowed to cross over into another then the Marvel Universe wouldn't be such a great mixing bowl of storylines - so when Marvel created their Production Offices in partnership with Paramount Pictures that was the first problem they resolved to fixing. And I'm quite sure that Columbia's future Spider-Man trilogy will also be joining the ranks of the cross cameo appearances as well. Really, would an Avengers movie ever get made if Marvel kept each major character seperated from each other just to keep the storylines simple? The writers are keeping these surprise cameo appearances as easter eggs to tie the Marvel Universe together even in film form and if it helps explain a plot point like the Supersoldier Formula then all the better in my book.

Plus Marvel learned after selling the rights to Fantastic Four, X-Men, Daredevil, and Elektra to 20th Century Fox and finding out that a contract mistake ended up not allowing them to be used in any crossover with another companies characters. This was discovered when the Spectacular Spider-Man animators wanted to use Kingpin in their new series and Fox wouldn't allow them because Columbia owned the rights to Spider-Man and they were compedators. Apparently something had changed between Fox and Columbia after the CGI animated Spider-Man had the black Kingpin voiced by Michael Clarke Duncan. Universal Studios worked out a deal with Paramount so they could release the Incredible Hulk and maintain the rights but had to opt for a clause to allow for crossover characters. So the good news is that Wolverine will not be appearing in any non-mutant movies unless it's in Fantastic Four or Daredevil sequels.

- CrimsonQuill

[Protomorph]

The shared universe is the way they are gearing up for an Avengers Movie. Iron Man, then Hulk, then Nick Fury, then Thor, and AntMan (hopefully introducing Wasp) probably waiting until the Avengers movie to bring them all together to introduce Captain America.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Exactly what I was thinking, expecially with the Super Soldier formula playing a role in the Hulk movie.

I'm thing we're going to see more bits of open plot let for the Avengers movie and other hints as the individual movies come out.  The Avengers movie will then end up as a sequal to all the individual movies and not so much its own entity.  And personally, I like that.  If these characters are going to be together, we should feel that they are part of the same universe, from the beginning if possible.  Otherwise, we have the kind of disconnect that makes people hesitate at bring the Superman Returns and Batman Begins continuities together.  They just don't feel like they are in the same universe.

[TheMarvell]

I guess I'm just not that excited about an Avengers movie, and think its kind of, well, unnecessary. If they can do it, and do it well, then more power to them, but I just get this vision of some big superhero special effects action fest with little to no substance. Not that they can't pull off an ensemble movie, far from it given the X-Men films, I'm just skeptical that it will work.

also, why Ant-Man? I'm honestly not familiar with the character at all and haven't even heard of him until I heard of the movie they're making, and when researching his character, I still failed to understand why they'd make a movie for him.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

I guess I'm just not that excited about an Avengers movie, and think its kind of, well, unnecessary. If they can do it, and do it well, then more power to them, but I just get this vision of some big superhero special effects action fest with little to no substance. Not that they can't pull off an ensemble movie, far from it given the X-Men films, I'm just skeptical that it will work.

My fears precisely!  IMO, the only X-Men film that approached a worthy ensemble piece was X2, and even that lacked much screen time for James Marsden, who was supposed to portray the team leader, Cyclops (:huh:)--so we still ended up with a film much more focused on the de facto team leader and fan-favourite, Wolverine.  I'm not at all convinced that the writers and directors of these Marvel Comics films have the ability to pull off a decent ensemble piece whilst keeping the strictly capitalistic urges of the studio executives at bay.  Certainly, if there is a team title that deserves a good film, 'tis The (original) Avengers, but I fear that 'twill suffer from the problems faced by X3 or Spider-Man 3: too many mutants/superheroes/villains, too little screen, and too little time for respectable character/plot development (unless the studio execs are willing to go to 2.5-3 hours for a first time team outing, which they may be willing to do based on the box office strengths of the solo prequels).

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[Alaric]

also, why Ant-Man? I'm honestly not familiar with the character at all and haven't even heard of him until I heard of the movie they're making, and when researching his character, I still failed to understand why they'd make a movie for him.

Because he was a founding Avenger (not to mention, under a variety of identities, a character extremely important to the history of that group). All of this does seem to be in part a deliberate build-up toward a possible Avengers movie.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

but I fear that 'twill suffer from the problems faced by X3 or Spider-Man 3: too many mutants/superheroes/villains, too little screen, and too little time for respectable character/plot development (unless the studio execs are willing to go to 2.5-3 hours for a first time team outing, which they may be willing to do based on the box office strengths of the solo prequels).

Actually that's one of the problems that building up in this manner will help to avoid.  With bits of the plot already in place, they can throw a story at you without much of the preliminary stuff.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

Actually that's one of the problems that building up in this manner will help to avoid.  With bits of the plot already in place, they can throw a story at you without much of the preliminary stuff.

I still think you are giving the writers, directors, and film studios too much credit, cat.  Never underestimate the movie industry's ability to completely arse up a perfectly good idea.  It takes a great deal more than a cameo appearance from Robert Downey, Jr. in The Incredible Hulk to establish the often rocky relationships between The Avengers' characters, and, with very few exceptions (e.g., the relationship between Peter and Mary Jane in the Spider-Man series or the relationships between Wolverine and characters who interact with him frequently in the X-Men series, etc.), I've yet to see laudable attempts at interpersonal character development. 

Nevertheless, your point is taken, and I will try to keep an open mind about any prospective Avengers film project, despite the fact that these comic book conversion films have often left me unimpressed.  Of course, I liked films such as The Hulk and Superman Returns, so my tastes and expectations might represent a minority in the field of public opinion.

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I still think you are giving the writers, directors, and film studios too much credit, cat.

It's more like I'm starting from a position a optimism and waiting for evidence that it might turn out badly, while you seem to be coming form the opposite direction.  Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, but it leads to a large difference in perspective.

Could they mess it up?  Of course, but the way they are doing things so far is in a direction full of potential.  You can't ask for much more at this point.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

It's more like I'm starting from a position a optimism and waiting for evidence that it might turn out badly, while you seem to be coming form the opposite direction.  Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, but it leads to a large difference in perspective.

No arguments here, cat.  I'd be the first to identify myself as a career pessimist.  In any case, I hope you are right about a potential Avengers film and its likelihood of achieving a higher quality through the groundwork of the prequels.

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[TheMarvell]

even with prequels lined up and made to get that ground work and back story up and out of the way, there still resides the main fear of having nothing but a superhero/villain brawl fest. Sure, they won't have to tell you how the superheroes got their powers because they already did in other movies, but I'm sure most of hollywood producers would just take that as a means to put in less story, and much more action. A superhero movie requires action, but if that's all it is, then you have no movie.

I guess I'm mainly skeptical about all this because Hollywood really hasn't perfected the superhero movie quite yet, in my eyes. For every great one that comes out, there's an equal one that's a huge dud. For every Spider-Man, there's an Elektra. Or ones with mixed results like Spider-Man 3 and The Hulk.

It's very, very difficult to balance out story, characters, and action with that many involved in the movie. Like was already said, even in the great ones like X-Men 2, you still had those characters put on hold for part or most of the movie, like Cyclops, that were virtually pointless.

[BlueBard]

X3 was okay as a re-imagining of the Dark Phoenix storyline.  It was rather short on plot, but the action was pretty intense.  X-Men mix-ups tend to be large anyway, so it's not really a surprise.  My biggest problems with it had to do with the characterization for Jean Grey. 

Why she 'disappeared' Cyclops in the beginning of X3 was not really explained nor justified.  They hint that it might have been accidental, but they don't say so.  Nor was it really in character for her to passively follow Magneto around and suddenly start trusting him.  She was just too passive and reactive when it should have portrayed her as increasingly more intoxicated with power.

S3 I didn't bother to watch.  I'm no fan of Venom, it was obvious they tried to put in too much for one movie, and the clip of emo Peter flipping his hair back made me gag.  I may eventually rent it just to see it once.

The Ang Lee Hulk movie, IMHO, was a disaster... and that's just from skimming the novelization.  I had no desire to actually watch it.  This one sounds more promising, so I'm cautiously optimistic. 

I'm definitely anticipating the Iron Man movie and very much want to see it.

An Avengers movie?  Not unless they're actively planning for a trilogy and willing to focus on one plotline at a time without trying to blend too many things in at once.  Otherwise you can't do them justice.  The question is, what villains would be logical and reasonable choices for an Avengers movie?  And you can't really answer that question without first asking which Avengers.  One thing is sure, it has to be some kind of national or global threat.

[Previsionary]

An Avengers movie?  Not unless they're actively planning for a trilogy and willing to focus on one plotline at a time without trying to blend too many things in at once.  Otherwise you can't do them justice.  The question is, what villains would be logical and reasonable choices for an Avengers movie?  And you can't really answer that question without first asking which Avengers.  One thing is sure, it has to be some kind of national or global threat.

Ultron, Kang, or Loki. ^_^

[Alaric]

An Avengers movie?  Not unless they're actively planning for a trilogy and willing to focus on one plotline at a time without trying to blend too many things in at once.  Otherwise you can't do them justice.  The question is, what villains would be logical and reasonable choices for an Avengers movie?  And you can't really answer that question without first asking which Avengers.  One thing is sure, it has to be some kind of national or global threat.

Ultron, Kang, or Loki. ^_^

Both Ultron and Kang would, in my opinion, work better for sequals than for the sifrst move- build the Avengers up before giving them opponents powerful enough to potentially beat the whole team single handedly.

I find it kind of funny the Loki's developed a reputation as a major Avengers foe- despite being responsible for the team's forming, he's never really been an important reccuring Avengers villain. Since issue 1, he has only very occasionally fought the team- maybe once per decade, if that- and, with the exception of Acts of Vengeance, he's never really shown himself to be a major threat to the team. By contrast, another magic-wielding Asgardian, the Enchantress, was a major reccuring Avengers foe throughout the Stan Lee and Roy Thomas runs on the series, only to suddenly completely lose interest in the group once Steve Englehart took over as writer.

Frankly, I think some sort of Baron Zemo/Masters of Evil storyline would work best- especially if, as the line-up of movies currently in the works would suggest, it's basically the original Avengers lineup we're talking about.

[BlueBard]

Masters of Evil is problematical because you have a whole bunch of relatively obscure villains.  I had to look them up online just to remember who they were.  So then you have to introduce -them- as well as develop the hero characters.

Kang, maybe.