Captain America (spoilers for Cap 25)

[Podmark]

A splinter discussion from the 'Cap's death?' thread, because I wanted to discuss something separate without getting into other ideas involved with the issue.

With Steve Rogers now seemingly dead who should be, or should there be, the next Captain America?

This was of course one of the first things I thought about. Actually considering I was pretty sure Cap would die in 25 I was actually thinking about it for the last few days. We've been told the Captain America title will continue, so assuming Steve is dead or incompassitated for some time, will someone else become Captain America? Now those following the Cap's regular title are aware of the regular role of Bucky aka the Winter Soldier and I have to assume there's a good chance it would be him. But if Someone were to take up Steve's mantle I really wish it would be Falcon. I've really gained a great respect for Sam and his relationship with Steve, and I really feel that if there was one person who understood him and was in the best position to take up the mantle it would be Sam. I'd adapt the Captain America costume so it would have Sam's solid sound wings, maybe change the chain mail to a feather patterm, but otherwise leave it unchanged. The real question though is if Falcon could elevate himself well enough to carry on indefinitely as a viable title character of a solo title long term. The answer there is probably no, but I'd be willing to give it a shot.

I'd love to hear other's thoughts, whether you think someone else is a better person for the job, or whether you think the mantle should die with Steve. Or any speculation you have on what will be coming up in the months ahead for Marvel and whether someone new will become Captain America or not, or even if Steve will return.

[MyndVizion]

Glad you brought this up. After reading the news today (I *never* expected to see Steve Rogers die....ever....but then again I never expected to see him surrender either but I digress...) I thought about who would take up the shield. It's pretty obvious somebody else will - at least for a little while.  I thought it would either be a) The Falcon, or b) The Punisher.

The Punisher is a ruthless vigilante and a perfect opportunity for Cap to be ruined even more than he already has.  So with the opportunity right in their face, I'm sure Marvel will happily jump for that.  Though they'll probably work the angle of Steve Rogers *inspiring* Punisher to greater deeds yadda yadda yadda....

As for the Falcon well, here's an opportunity for Marvel to give the shield over to a minority character all for the sake of political correctness and that the mantle of liberty can be wielded by anybody.  While I'm not against a minority (afterall I am one) portrayed as a patriot - I would applaud Falcon since I think he's the best choice to fill the shoes of Steve.  Mainly because he more closely exhibits the traits of Steve than any other character out there.  Steve stood for every American citizen regardless of race or whathaveyou.  The Readers do not need to be smacked with political correctness - but considering how awful this can truly get - again I don't put it pass Marvel at this point.

If I was going to take the odds to Vegas I'd wager on Punisher becoming the next Cap.  It was forshadowed in the comics moreso than Falcon.

[Spring Heeled Jack]

Who should be the next Cap?

Batman.

[Blkcasanova247]

If there's going to be a next Captain America (which there shouldn't be) I'd say it's even money on it being his old partner Bucky/Winter Soldier. They've brought this suped-up version of Bucky to do what? Play second fiddle to Cap...I don't quite see it that way.

[lugaru]

Here's my candidates in order:

1) Winter Soldier but still totally himself. In other words a similar suit than what he has now but carrying the shield.
2) Isaiah Bradley or Josiah X. They both have captains powers and combat experience and both would be righteously anti gov.
3) John Walker: "captain america is not dead, he joined the pro registration finally!". John Walker in the suit of course.
4) Jack Flag: Gets "repaired" and takes on the mantle.
5) Taskmaster: Brainwash him and send him into the world as Captain America. Again a great pro-reg movement.

Longshots:

1) Maya Lopez: a deaf version of taskmaster who dosent mind going around looking like a dude.
2) Bruce Wayne: because SHJ rocks.
3) T'Challa: He's really the caps brother from another mother.
4) Frank Castle: I love the character to death and hope he keeps his own comic... but he would be less super and more soldier.
5) Captain america clone: It worked with THOR! Kind of... oh geez clone Captain just killed a hero...

[Podmark]

For the record Tony has/will have the shield by Fallen Son.

[konbiz]

Patriot maybe? I think that would be interesting, sort of following in the footsteps of his grandfather, but I don't think he would get a solo book just yet. Interestingly enough when Luguru said Captain America clone, perhaps it was a clone of Cap who got killed in the first place?.

If I had to guess, I would say probably Winter Soldier.

[BlueBard]

For the record Tony has/will have the shield by Fallen Son.

Which sort of implies that Stark will have some input into who assumes the mantle (I heard he was now head of S.H.I.E.L.D. so why not?).  So, who would Stark put in the Red, White, and Blues?  Or to be more accurate, who would Marvel have Stark put in the uniform?

That, I don't know.

I confess to have had a ridiculous picture in my head of Iron-Man in Red, White, and Blue armor toting the shield. 

I don't think even Marvel has the stomach for the outrage THAT would produce in the fanbase, and it wouldn't make a particularly good story either, so I suppose we can rule that out. :)

[GhostMachine]

If anyone takes over the role of Cap, I'd want it to be either Winter Soldier or Sharon Carter.

So help me, if Tony Stark has any say in who is the new Cap and its not one of those two, then I hope that person is shot in the head the issue after they debut! Because you just know he'll pick someone who is pro-reg. We've already had one government bootlicker (USAgent) in the role of Cap. We don't need another. Cap represents the people, NOT the politicians, and that's the way it should be.

And whoever said it looked like Sharon Carter was the shooter, I've seen a couple pics from the comic, and wasn't she near him when he was a shot by a sniper?

[The Hitman]

Well, Cappy's been in an Iron Man- esque Exo Suit back when his serum burned out the nervous system and was rendered a paraplegic, so "Iron Cap" isn't too far off. Shoot, they gave Spidey armor for a while!

While my money's on Winter Bucky, Punisher, or John Walker (in that order), I think a really interesting turn of events would be to have Cable in the suit. But have everyone know it's him, so it's more like a homage to the man, and not just a "filling of the shoes". He has a very high regard for Cap, he holds many of the same ideals (now), he's built like Steve, and he's used the shield before (in the future). Plus, now that he and Deadpool have (for the most part) split, he's in need of his own book. Perminant? No. But a neat idea nonetheless.

Oh, and if I were a betting man, I'd say it's a Life Model Decoy that got shot, while Cap goes to Canada and joins Omega Flight under an assumed alias for a while.

[GhostMachine]

Well, Cappy's been in an Iron Man- esque Exo Suit back when his serum burned out the nervous system and was rendered a paraplegic, so "Iron Cap" isn't too far off. Shoot, they gave Spidey armor for a while!

While my money's on Winter Bucky, Punisher, or John Walker (in that order), I think a really interesting turn of events would be to have Cable in the suit. But have everyone know it's him, so it's more like a homage to the man, and not just a "filling of the shoes". He has a very high regard for Cap, he holds many of the same ideals (now), he's built like Steve, and he's used the shield before (in the future). Plus, now that he and Deadpool have (for the most part) split, he's in need of his own book. Perminant? No. But a neat idea nonetheless.

Oh, and if I were a betting man, I'd say it's a Life Model Decoy that got shot, while Cap goes to Canada and joins Omega Flight under an assumed alias for a while.

Cable as Cap? Interesting idea....

I'm hoping it was an LMD, with Sharon being in on it. But Cap going to Canada to join Omega Flight? Don't see that happening. If anything, I'd suspect that Steve would either go underground and try to get in touch with the common man (see Frontline #11 for why....and geez, I can't believe they wrote that crap) or wait for the registration to blow up in the pro-reg side's face (ie, someone who shouldn't get access to it getting access and havoc ensuing) then pop up and do an `I told you so!' and kick Stark's butt.

[Podmark]

I think a really interesting turn of events would be to have Cable in the suit. But have everyone know it's him, so it's more like a homage to the man, and not just a "filling of the shoes". He has a very high regard for Cap, he holds many of the same ideals (now), he's built like Steve, and he's used the shield before (in the future). Plus, now that he and Deadpool have (for the most part) split, he's in need of his own book. Perminant? No. But a neat idea nonetheless.

Actually if you've read Cable & Deadpool, and maybe some of the recent X-Men, then Cable homaging Cap would make so much sense. It won't happen for various reasons but I really like the idea. I used to hate Cable, but the last few years he's turned into one of my favorite characters.

Hey maybe this is why Cable currently has an image of Cap's shield on his shoulder!

I'm still betting it's Bucky, but I'd love it if it was Sam.

[lugaru]

Well cable has turned into a great dissident character. The only thing that bugs me is how they write him: invincible, be it his super high power level at first or now that he is de-powered his batman cleverness. Still all in all Captain america, part cyborg, white hair visible, big anti-reg statement from the get-go... that would be cool.

[gdaybloke]

USAgent would be a very interesting choice, considering his relationship with Tony. Based on everything I read way back when (i'm thinking Force Works era), Tony wasn't really fond of John at all, but had a measure of respect for him.

All that said, considering the negative results of John's last stint as Cap, I don't know that it makes any sense to put him back in the suit.

[Agent]

Setting aside the fact that I'm not yet convinced Cap will stay dead past the end of this storyarc and assuming Marvel will have someone else take up the mantle of Captain America, it depends on the situation.

If the US government decides to choose someone to become the new Cap, which would make since considering what's happened, anyone who was anti-reg wouldn't be a likely choice.  If I'm not mistaken, John Walker was against registration and is apparently heading to Canada so he's out.  One possible choice would be the Anti-Cap from the short lived Captain America and the Falcon series but I doubt he's high profile enough.

If you're talking about a hero choosing to take on the mantle on they're on, Winter Soldier and the Falcon are the front runners.  They essentially have the same credentials for the role.  Both were Cap's closest allies, they're both skilled fighters, both courageous, etc.  If one has a mark against them I'd say it's the Winter Soldier since he uses lethal force and the Falcon doesn't. 

You could even have a situation where several heroes, some pro-reg and some anti-reg, all want to take on the mantle of Captain America.

[Alaric]

You could even have a situation where several heroes, some pro-reg and some anti-reg, all want to take on the mantle of Captain America.

They could call it "The Reign of the Captain Americas (Captains America?)"...

[Podmark]

One possible choice would be the Anti-Cap from the short lived Captain America and the Falcon series but I doubt he's high profile enough.

Didn't he die at the end of the series?

[Dweomer Knight]

Well, assuming that Steve is actually dead (which I doubt and hope he isn't; after Disassembled, House of M and Civil War, I don't really trust Marvel to do anything good with his death storywise), I would think the revived Bucky the most likely choice; since I see little point to bringing him back otherwise. 

The Falcon would make a great Cap.  However, because he was so close to Steve, I think he would refuse to do it.  Unless heavily pressured to do so by other heroes he respected, I think he would be very resistant to the idea of him being the new Cap.  In fact, I think the Falcon would believe that no one could fill Steve's shoes and would be suspicious of anyone who tried.  I think he'd find some other way to honor Cap's memory.  That's my opinion anyway.

DK

[Podmark]

The Falcon would make a great Cap.  However, because he was so close to Steve, I think he would refuse to do it.  Unless heavily pressured to do so by other heroes he respected, I think he would be very resistant to the idea of him being the new Cap.  In fact, I think the Falcon would believe that no one could fill Steve's shoes and would be suspicious of anyone who tried.  I think he'd find some other way to honor Cap's memory.  That's my opinion anyway.

DK

I completely agree.

[UnfluffyBunny]

They previewed a female captain america before civil war even started, but the images got pulled, i'll see if I can find one

[edit]
before it gets said, no it wasnt american dream

[Podmark]

hmm now that is very interesting....

[konbiz]

Ergh now I wouldn't like to see that. It seems nowadays when someone new takes up a mantle of a superhero/villian there has to be something totally different about them. Scorpian into a woman, before we knew Ronin was Echo she was drawn extremely masculine, the whole Magneto - Xorn thing. I think they need to think less about shock factor, and more about logical choices.

[Agent]

One possible choice would be the Anti-Cap from the short lived Captain America and the Falcon series but I doubt he's high profile enough.

Didn't he die at the end of the series?

Oops.  You're right he did.  Forget I said that part.   :P

[Sword]

I'm sure it's been brought up, but I'd like to think that Ms. Marvel was telling the truth in The Initiative.

[Urthman]

Captain America isn't like a Green Lantern or a Flash.  His "power" isn't really the Super Soldier serum and/or the indestructible shield.  The essence of the character is that he's Steve Rogers, a man who inspires respect and confidence in everyone he meets.  He's the one mortal that Greek and Norse gods will gladly follow into battle.  His skill, courage, competence, and moral character are legendary. 

And it's that "legendary" that's really important.  The essence of the character is not just that he has these exemplary qualities, but that everyone knows he has them.  It's the respect that other characters have for him that is Captain America's real power. 

You can't duplicate that by giving someone powers and putting them in the same costume.  And you can't reproduce that mythic aura by just writing a story where you say, "Oh, everybody *really* respects this guy."  The only reason Steve Rogers makes it work for the reader is because he's been earning that respect for 40+ years.

[crimsonquill]

Captain America isn't like a Green Lantern or a Flash.  His "power" isn't really the Super Soldier serum and/or the indestructible shield.  The essence of the character is that he's Steve Rogers, a man who inspires respect and confidence in everyone he meets.  He's the one mortal that Greek and Norse gods will gladly follow into battle.  His skill, courage, competence, and moral character are legendary. 

You can't duplicate that by giving someone powers and putting them in the same costume.  And you can't reproduce that mythic aura by just writing a story where you say, "Oh, everybody *really* respects this guy."  The only reason Steve Rogers makes it work for the reader is because he's been earning that respect for 40+ years.

Uhm, yes and no... Steve Rogers didn't reveal who he was until just a few years ago. Captain America already once had been replaced with John Walker and nobody realized the difference until he started going crazy after his parents were shot and The Captain popped up elsewhere to do crimefighting. And I believe 5 different people have worn the uniform over the lifetime of the character but he was still just as respected and loved because no matter what happened to Captain America he kept on fighting like the legend he was. What everone has forgotten since the '80s was that Steve drove cross country in his van using his Stars & Stripes phone network to "walk among the people" and understand how things have changed since he was thawed out. Heck, He even worked as an artist on his own comic book - you can't be any more in touch with your target audience then that.

What makes this different was that Steve unmasked himself on live television to surrender and essentually removed himself from the legend so that someone worthy could take on the namesake without his "arrest" tarnishing the name.

Besides long time fans know that Nick Fury didn't vanish into the underground after Secret War to "retire" so there is a huge chess game being played between him and The Red Skull's allies who have been making big plans.

- CrimsonQuill

[Dweomer Knight]

What makes this different was that Steve unmasked himself on live television to surrender and essentually removed himself from the legend so that someone worthy could take on the namesake without his "arrest" tarnishing the name

Unfortunately, from a reader's persepective, his surrender was poorly written and seemed out of character, the name of Steve Rogers and Captain America have both been tarnished, and I firmly believe that the few people truly worthy of inheriting the Cap legend would refuse to do so.

Heroes don't decide, "Hey, I'm a legend today!".  Other heroes and the populace in general will make a legend out of someone based on that character's actions.  Similarly, a character can't say "Forget it, I'm not a legend anymore."  That just isn't believable.  A legend will always be a legend as long as people still believe in what he/she stould for or unless he completely betrays those values.  Few readers accept, as written, that Cap abandoned his values though this seems to be the stance that Marvel is taking and thus his name is tarnished. 

Since Marvel seems to be trying really hard to make us believe that Cap was in the wrong here (the post CW interview for example), it makes me wonder why anyone in the general populace of the MU would want another Cap at all.  His name and legend have been tarnished; Marvel's been forcing that tarnish down our throats (and doing a crappy job of it, IMO).

Presumbaly this will continue until a) Marvel tries to pull off a big surprise by reversing everything, b) enough time passes that some writer will just "forget" that any of this ever happened, or c) the next retcon rolls around.

DK

[GhostMachine]

What I think will happen is, the registration will backfire at some point. Either some hacker will get into the database and publish it online for the world to see, or some technological villain will gain access to it and cause havoc for people who are registered. Maybe something akin to a Scourge that takes out heroes instead of villains. Then Stark and all the other pro-reg heroes will come off looking like idiots. I just hope its after Cap is back so he can do an `I told you so', then slap the taste out of Stark's mouth (figuratively, that is).

[Spring Heeled Jack]

I just don't get Tony Stark. I mean...sigh. I really, really like Iron Man. But this whole thing has me baffled. I hope it's just a HUGE ruse in the end.

[Urthman]

Captain America isn't like a Green Lantern or a Flash.  His "power" isn't really the Super Soldier serum and/or the indestructible shield.  The essence of the character is that he's Steve Rogers, a man who inspires respect and confidence in everyone he meets.  He's the one mortal that Greek and Norse gods will gladly follow into battle.  His skill, courage, competence, and moral character are legendary. 

Uhm, yes and no... Steve Rogers didn't reveal who he was until just a few years ago. Captain America already once had been replaced with John Walker and nobody realized the difference until he started going crazy after his parents were shot and The Captain popped up elsewhere to do crimefighting. And I believe 5 different people have worn the uniform over the lifetime of the character but he was still just as respected and loved because no matter what happened to Captain America he kept on fighting like the legend he was.

I don't mean that everyone knew Captain America = Steve Rogers.  I mean that while other guys have worn the costume and held the shield, it's Steve Rogers that has the amazing charisma that makes him such an inspiring leader.  When the heroes were squabbling during the original Secret Wars about who to lead them, you can bet Thor wouldn't have vouched for Captain America if it had been John Walker in the uniform.  I can't see Hercules having the same loyalty to Sharon Carter or Bucky that he does to Steve.  Sam Wilson can't give pep talks that (despite or maybe even because of their corniness) make spider-man get a lump in his throat and forget to crack jokes.

Steve Rogers was the guy no other hero could say no to.  At least until Tony brainwashed 3/4 of the Marvel Universe.  (Hmm...which team is the good guys?  Captain America's team or the team with Venom and Bullseye on it?)