Re-Building a Invc/SSt Tanker

[MJB]

I'm looking to do the respec TF with my main tanker General Victory. Problem is I'm not sure what is the best route to go.

I was browsing the official boards and other sites to find an Invincibility/Super Strength build that suited my needs. Here are some examples of what I found I would love some input from experienced players so feel free to chime in...

Level 01 : Resist Physical Damage
Level 01 : Jab
Level 02 : Temp Invulnerability
Level 04 : Punch
Level 06 : Combat Jumping
Level 08 : Unyielding
Level 10 : Swift
Level 12 : Haymaker
Level 14 : Super Jump
Level 16 : Health
Level 18 : Invincibility
Level 20 : Stamina
Level 22 : Knockout Blow
Level 24 : Resist Elements
Level 26 : Resist Energies

Level 01 : Temp Invulnerability
Level 01 : Jab
Level 02 : Punch
Level 04 : Dull Pain
Level 06 : Haymaker
Level 08 : Unyielding
Level 10 : Air Superiority
Level 12 : Swift
Level 14 : Fly
Level 16 : Health
Level 18 : Invincibility
Level 20 : Stamina
Level 22 : Knockout Blow
Level 24 : Resist Physical Damage
Level 26 : Tough Hide

Level 01 : Jab
Level 01 : Temp Invulnerability
Level 02 : Punch
Level 04 : Dull Pain
Level 06 : Air Superiority a
Level 08 : Unyielding
Level 10 : Taunt
Level 12 : Swift
Level 14 : Fly
Level 16 : Health
Level 18 : Invincibility
Level 20 : Stamina
Level 22 : Knockout Blow
Level 24 : Resist Energies
Level 26 : Resist Elements

If anyone knows of a decent site that has some builds I could look at please let me know.

-MJB

[Alaric]

Verfall had posted an Invul/SS Tanker build, but unfortunately that thread's currently in whatever limbo all the old posts now reside in.

[captainspud]

As I said yesterday, Invuln is really easy to build. Take every Invuln power eventually (You want RPD as soon as possible, Resist Energies by 30, and Resist Elements by 38), and then pick and choose the SStr powers. KO Blow rocks, Foot Stomp is good crowd control, and Rage is the entire reason you take SStr. As for the rest, take whatever looks shiny.

Invuln has no real "holes" unlike some other defensive sets, so you don't need to dip into pools to make it playable.

[gdaybloke]

If I get a chance I'll make a list of Ms Knockout's build for you, but Spud's pretty much got it.

[Tortuga]

Min/Maxxers will drop powers like Tough Hide and even the passive Resist powers and replace them with  Tough/Weave from the Fighting pool instead.  Tortuga has all the Inv powers and he can do his job fine.

[Uncle Yuan]

Interesting perspective: I have a very neglected Invul/SS tank and I've often wondered if I was nerfing him or what.  What about taunt?  Is that a must-have-as-soon-as-it's-available power, or can you get by with Gauntlet for a while.

[MJB]

I was wondering the same thing. I was on a PUG last night and was chastised for not having taunt while I have teamed with others who don't care.

-MJB

[Midnight]

I was wondering the same thing. I was on a PUG last night and was chastised for not having taunt while I have teamed with others who don't care.

-MJB

It's a matter of preference. Taunt is useful because it's autohit, but it's only auto on 5 enemies... so... *shrug* I got away without having it on my tank into the late-20s, and this was when taunt auras were broken.

[Tortuga]

I didn't take taunt until after Invincible and Stamina -- so level 22 I guess.

[El Condor]

I was wondering the same thing. I was on a PUG last night and was chastised for not having taunt while I have teamed with others who don't care.

Umoja, my first tank, is Inv/SS, at lvl 17, and has done a very decent job of grabbing and holding aggro so far. It's helped me to learn basic aggro management by just using Gauntlet and technique.  I do plan on taking Taunt at some point post-Invincibility and Stamina.
As for the chastisers, weren't you holding aggro for them?  Then you're fine!   :thumbup: These are the same pains-in-the-butt who endlessly shout "SB!" or "CM" or "Need heal!" They're the ones with the problem.:thumbdown:

EC

[Tortuga]

The worse your teammates are, the harder it is to hold aggro for them. :wacko:

[Verfall]

Of the 3 you posted, hero14's looks to be the best. I'd just switch out RPD at 24 for Taunt.

If you want to be completely invulnerable to smashing/lethal damage you might wanna cram boxing and tough in later, since tough lets you cap out at the 90% mark. Never take weave. Ever. 5%ish defense with an end cost greater than all your other toggles combined is not worth it. Tough Hide easily fills in the -def from unyielding and gives you more of a bonus when 3 slotted.

Also, with the new aura taunts you can actually skip taunt for awhile, since Invinc grabs aggro like mad, but any tank without it is only half a tank from my perspective. I put it on auto when I play Ver, then just go in swinging, with the triple combo of gauntlet, taunt and invinc, you should easily be able to hold your cap of 17 mobs.

Getting rage is, and I say this personally, an iffy prospect for a tank. I just respecced into it on Ver before I went into the hospital to help with soloing, but on a team it actually is a detriment since it interrupts your ability to hold aggro, and on a team your damage even with rage is uneeded usually. Take it only if you have 2 extra slots to put into it and solo with him alot, otherwise it's safe to leave it off.

I'd throw up my build, but it's downstairs and I'm not allowed to use those yet, heh.

[BlueBard]

The worse your teammates are, the harder it is to hold aggro for them. :wacko:

Amen to that.  I've learned the hard way that damage AoE's are for opening shots, point defense, or coup de grace... using them in the middle of a strong mob is usually a bad idea unless you're a tank.

It's slightly off topic because GeoFire is Stone/Fire, but for him grabbing aggro I like to run into a mob with my static defenses plus Rock Armor, pop the nearest lieutenant, toggle Rooted for extra resistance, then touch off Combustion.  The whole mob takes damage and even if my teammates are slow on the heals my defenses can keep me going for a little while.  If I've got a good healer, GeoFire is practically invincible.  The downside is I'm really Sl-o-o-o-w-w with Rooted on and it makes it harder to switch targets, especially when somebody else grabs aggro.  (Well, End drain is another drawback, but I can live with it.) The only time I get nailed is when I have to shut off Rooted to move to a new target and get hit with a status effect while Rooted is down.

[Verfall]

3 slot swift with run speed BB. It brings rooted up to normal run speed, only with the minus jump intact.
Just wait till granite, without TP it's practically impossible to play it without a kin speed boosting you.

[BlueBard]

3 slot swift with run speed BB. It brings rooted up to normal run speed, only with the minus jump intact.
Just wait till granite, without TP it's practically impossible to play it without a kin speed boosting you.

Thanks for the advice, Ver... I was thinking I might need to start taking Fitness soon and that confirms it.  GeoFire is about to hit 20, so I need to choose what to take next real shortly.  Any extra advice will be welcome.

My three main choices at this point are Crystal Armor, Breath of Fire, and Swift.  Backfilling Taunt is another possibility... punchvoke has been less effective at holding aggro for me on a team lately, probably because my damage output isn't keeping pace with other people in the pickup teams I've been on.  I took Mud Pots and that seems to be helping keep the aggro a bit better as well as upping my damage output a little, but it's also draining End like crazy.

But I am leaning toward concentrating on Fitness for awhile.  I've been doing okay without Crystal Armor and Breath of Fire looks like it will just worsen my End problems.

[B A D]

I haven't diverged from the given pools for SS/Invul, and I tank just fine. I've got 7 squishies behind me 99.9 percent of the time with Black Thirteen, so taunt was a must for me. As for offense, KO and Footstomp are the besterest ever, as Is Rage. Jab/Punch/?? works as a constant punchvoke for me. I think the only power I haven't taken yet is Dull pain; haven't needed it as my constant companions are mostly healers/trollers.

[Verfall]

Truthfully, for a team based tank, all Invul needs to reach minimum survival is:

Temp Invul: 4 slotted 3 res 1 end
Dull Pain: 6 slotted 3 heal 3 recharge
Unyielding: 4 slotted 3 res 1 end
Invinc: 3 slotted def
Tough Hide: 3 slotted def
Unstoppable: 3 slotted recharge

With those powers Invul will be able to tank anything for a decent team. The 3 passives and tough allow you to tank for crappy teams really.

[B A D]

My team is the besterest.  :wub:

[MJB]

Ok. Hows this for my re-build?

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: General Victory
Level: 25
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(1)  DmgRes(3)  DmgRes(3)  EndRdx(11)
01) --> Jab==> Dmg(1)
02) --> Punch==> EndRdx(2)  Dmg(7)
04) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(4)  Rechg(5)  EndRdx(5)
06) --> Haymaker==> EndRdx(6)  Dmg(7)  Dmg(13)
08) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(8)  DmgRes(9)  DmgRes(9)  EndRdx(11)
10) --> Air Superiority==> EndRdx(10)  Dmg(13)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14)  Fly(15)  Fly(15)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)  Heal(17)  Heal(17)
18) --> Invincibility==> DefBuf(18)  DefBuf(19)  TH_Buf(19)  EndRdx(23)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)  EndMod(21)  EndMod(21)
22) --> Knockout Blow==> EndRdx(22)  Dmg(23)
24) --> Taunt==> Rechg(24)  Rechg(25)  Taunt(25)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Dmg(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Heal(2)
---------------------------------------------

This is basically Hero14's build with Taunt thrown in. So should I take Resist Physical Damage later?

-MJB

[Alaric]

Uh, I'm not exactly an expert on tankers, but I would have kept Rest single-slotted, and put a Recharge in it, instead of a Heal. It's usually more important to have it come up when you need it than to have it work faster, in my opinion.

Of course, this could just be a leftover instinct on my part, from back when Rest took longer to recharge than it does now.

[Verfall]

Uh, I'm not exactly an expert on tankers, but I would have kept Rest single-slotted, and put a Recharge in it, instead of a Heal. It's usually more important to have it come up when you need it than to have it work faster, in my opinion.

Of course, this could just be a leftover instinct on my part, from back when Rest took longer to recharge than it does now.

The numbers next to the names are when you get the power, for rest he gets it at lvl 2, so thats when he gets the slot, not that he's putting 2 slots into it, heh.


Anyway, that's a good start jeebs, but I see a few slotting errors. First of, don't slot Health or Taunt till the 30's or 40's. Your attacks should be seeing any slots that aren't being used on defenses. I'd also hold off slotting fly till the 30's as well. You also have no accuracies in any attacks.
Also, Invinc doesn't need an end reducer, it's a very cheap toggle. And putting tohit buffs in is worthless since it doesn't boost it enough to bother. Invincibility should see no more than 3 slots ever. You also slotted Dull Pain horribly. It never ever needs an end reducer, the only thing it should see is 3 recharge and 3 heals.

Here's what I'd go with:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 26
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(1)  DmgRes(3)  DmgRes(11)  EndRdx(13)
01) --> Jab==> Acc(1)  Dmg(3)
02) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(2)  Rechg(5)  Rechg(7)  Heal(11)  Heal(13)  Heal(15)
04) --> Haymaker==> Acc(4)  Dmg(5)  EndRdx(17)
06) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(6)  Dmg(7)  EndRdx(19)
08) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(8)  DmgRes(9)  DmgRes(9)  EndRdx(17)
10) --> Swift==> Run(10)
12) --> Punch==> Acc(12)  Dmg(15)  EndRdx(19)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)
18) --> Invincibility==> DefBuf(18)  DefBuf(25)  DefBuf(25)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)  EndMod(21)  EndMod(21)
22) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc(22)  Dmg(23)  EndRdx(23)
24) --> Taunt==> Rechg(24)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

[MJB]

Cool, thanks Ver. I'll definitely use your advice. As far as the slotting goes I was just using Hero14's build. Those were his slots, I don't know enough about the powers to make those calls on my own.

If you don't mind, would you take that build you showed me to 50? That way will have a reference to use. :)

Here is Hero14's whole build. This has been my reference so far.

Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Super Strength

01) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(3) EndRdx(11)
01) --> Jab==> Dmg(1)
02) --> Punch==> EndRdx(2) Dmg(7) Dmg(34) Dmg(37) Rechg(46)
04) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(4) Rechg(5) Rechg(5) Heal(45) Heal(46) Heal(46)
06) --> Haymaker==> EndRdx(6) Dmg(7) Dmg(13) Dmg(37) Rechg(40) Rechg(43)
08) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(8) DmgRes(9) DmgRes(9) EndRdx(11)
10) --> Air Superiority==> EndRdx(10) Dmg(13) Dmg(34) Dmg(37)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14) Fly(15) Fly(15)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16) Heal(17) Heal(17)
18) --> Invincibility==> DefBuf(18) DefBuf(19) DefBuf(19) EndRdx(23) TH_Buf(31) TH_Buf(33)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Knockout Blow==> EndRdx(22) Dmg(23) Dmg(34) Dmg(36) Rechg(40) Rechg(43)
24) --> Resist Physical Damage==> DmgRes(24) DmgRes(25) DmgRes(25)
26) --> Tough Hide==> DefBuf(26) DefBuf(27) DefBuf(27)
28) --> Rage==> Rechg(28) Rechg(29) Rechg(29) TH_Buf(33) TH_Buf(33) TH_Buf(42)
30) --> Resist Elements==> DmgRes(30) DmgRes(31) DmgRes(31)
32) --> Unstoppable==> Rechg(32)
35) --> Resist Energies==> DmgRes(35) DmgRes(36) DmgRes(36)
38) --> Foot Stomp==> EndRdx(38) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(43)
41) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(41) Rechg(42) Rechg(42)
44) --> Hasten==> Rechg(44) Rechg(45) Rechg(45)
47) --> Laser Beam Eyes==> EndRdx(47) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Rechg(50)
49) --> Super Speed==> Run(49) Run(50) Run(50)

-MJB

[Verfall]

Ok need some questions answered first:

Do you want to run rage all the time, or do you plan to turn it off when tanking? It does give an 80% damage boost and a 30% To hit boost, and can be made permanent, but every 2 minutes you lose 20 endurance, can't attack or taunt for 10 seconds, and lose all of your defense.

Do you want to take both super speed and fly? Are you basically wanting to build him some what like Superman? Hero14's build is essentially the old Superman build. Do you also want to take hasten, since with Rage and hasten running that's almost half your endurance dropping if they both drop at the same time. That can lead to running out of end alot.

If you want to use his build, and have fly and super speed for the "Superman" affect, I can do that for ya. He wasted alot of slots that are better placed elsewhere.

[MJB]

Ok need some questions answered first:

Do you want to run rage all the time, or do you plan to turn it off when tanking? It does give an 80% damage boost and a 30% To hit boost, and can be made permanent, but every 2 minutes you lose 20 endurance, can't attack or taunt for 10 seconds, and lose all of your defense.

I haven't taken Rage before but after reading your description I'll probably toggle it on and off when I need it.

Do you want to take both super speed and fly? Are you basically wanting to build him some what like Superman? Hero14's build is essentially the old Superman build. Do you also want to take hasten, since with Rage and hasten running that's almost half your endurance dropping if they both drop at the same time. That can lead to running out of end alot.

I honestly didn't look at the build past lvl 26 because that's where the General is.  :oops: All the Super Speed powers can be axed. The Fighting power pool abilities were mentioned, should those be dropped in place of the SS power pool?

If you want to use his build, and have fly and super speed for the "Superman" affect, I can do that for ya. He wasted alot of slots that are better placed elsewhere.

It was never my intention of making a "Superman". I've always wanted to make my character instead. :) That is why I picked the Teleporting power pool. It may suck as a travel power but it fit the character. I got tired of running out of end and being the last team member to the mish so I dumped it.

-MJB

[Midnight]

I personally think that more than one travel power is generally a waste of a power slot, but that's just me.  :P

If you pump end reducers and range increase into Teleport and use the teleport bind (/bind shift+lbutton "powexec_name teleport"), it's the fastest overall travel power.

[Verfall]

Well if you go with fly it'll be 3 slotted, and if you go with tp it'll be 3 slotted with end reducers, which lets ya go about 2 miles before reaching half end. So which do you prefer?

[Uncle Yuan]

and use the teleport bind (/bind shift+lbutton "powexec_name teleport"), it's the fastest overall travel power.

I tried this, and it was a real pain.  Maybe it's because I use a track ball, but I had a tough time getting where I wanted to go without falling all the time.  Now I just bind it to a random keyboard key and use that.  You can activate the next TP while the animation for the current TP is firing so that you arrive with your cursor already going.  I also find it very usefull to switch to first-person camera mode when traveling (default key is B to toggle first-second person camera modes), if you don't use it all the time already.

Also, Hover/flight or a temp flight power is really handy to keep you from falling if there's lag.  I also bind this to a key so it's quick to hit it I start falling.  And since I usually travel pretty high I have plenty of time to catch myself.

[Dweomer Knight]

I have a question:

What would you do if you were planning on taking Superspeed or Superjump as your travel power instead of flight?  Would you still take Air Superiority?  If so when and when would you take the prereq for Speed or Jump?

DK

[Verfall]

I have a question:

What would you do if you were planning on taking Superspeed or Superjump as your travel power instead of flight?  Would you still take Air Superiority?  If so when and when would you take the prereq for Speed or Jump?

DK

If you want air surperiority as well, you'd take either your first fitness power or your pre-req travel power at 6, unyielding at 8, air sup at 10, and the opposite of whatever you took at 6 at 12. This would move dull pain to level 2 and haymaker to level 4. Punch is nowhere near as good as Air Superiority, so I'd leave that off.

So for SS I'd take swift at 6, hasten at 12 and SS at 14.

For SJ I'd take combat jumping at 6, swift or hurdle at 12 and SJ at 14.

TP would go Swift at 6, Recall Friend at 12 and TP at 14.

Taking fly makes things interesting since it effectively leaves you with one extra power slot to fill. For my latest build for Verfall, where I ditched TP and went pure flight, I put boxing in at 12 so i coulkd grab tough in the early twenties. You could also go with taunt, a passive power, aid other if you decide to go that route, or anything rlse you want.

[Verfall]

Here's a TP Build with Rage:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: General Victory
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(1)  DmgRes(3)  DmgRes(7)  EndRdx(17)
01) --> Jab==> Taunt(1)  Dmg(5)  Dmg(33)  Dmg(34)  EndRdx(37)  Rechg(45)
02) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(2)  Rechg(3)  Rechg(7)  Heal(11)  Heal(13)  Heal(13)
04) --> Haymaker==> Acc(4)  Dmg(5)  Dmg(15)  Dmg(34)  EndRdx(37)  Rechg(43)
06) --> Swift==> Run(6)
08) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(8)  DmgRes(9)  DmgRes(9)  EndRdx(17)
10) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(10)  Dmg(11)  Dmg(15)  Dmg(34)  EndRdx(36)  Rechg(43)
12) --> Recall Friend==> Rechg(12)
14) --> Teleport==> EndRdx(14)  EndRdx(25)  EndRdx(25)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)  Heal(42)  Heal(43)
18) --> Invincibility==> DefBuf(18)  DefBuf(19)  DefBuf(19)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)  EndMod(21)  EndMod(21)
22) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc(22)  Dmg(23)  Dmg(23)  Dmg(31)  EndRdx(37)  Rechg(40)
24) --> Taunt==> Taunt(24)  Rechg(50)
26) --> Tough Hide==> DefBuf(26)  DefBuf(27)  DefBuf(27)
28) --> Rage==> Rechg(28)  Rechg(29)  Rechg(29)  TH_Buf(48)  TH_Buf(50)  TH_Buf(50)
30) --> Resist Physical Damage==> DmgRes(30)  DmgRes(31)  DmgRes(31)
32) --> Unstoppable==> Rechg(32)  Rechg(33)  Rechg(33)
35) --> Resist Elements==> DmgRes(35)  DmgRes(36)  DmgRes(36)
38) --> Foot Stomp==> Acc(38)  Dmg(39)  Dmg(39)  Dmg(39)  EndRdx(40)  Rechg(40)
41) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(41)  Rechg(42)  Rechg(42)
44) --> Laser Beam Eyes==> Acc(44)  Dmg(45)  Dmg(45)  Dmg(46)  EndRdx(46)  Rechg(46)
47) --> Resist Energies==> DmgRes(47)  DmgRes(48)  DmgRes(48)
49) --> Hover==> Fly(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------