Original Mesh:  Mephisto
Original Mesher: Valandar
Original Mesh: Century / shoulder pads/ spheres/ Cape
Original Mesher: Tommyboy
Original Mesh: Loki
Original Mesher:  Grenadier
Original Mesh: Male_heavy_capeUPDATE_Horns_Loincloth_Cuffs_Bands_Pads
Original Mesher:  Grenadier
Male Basic Bones & KF.. i use to stop the floating Cape
mix it all up and you have LOKI!!!
Scope By Johnny Patches
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/wicketharley_photo/loki.png

I've just been humbled! :(

mmmmmm yes Mr Patches, your work is awesome indeed... and Mr Style.... i would love to see some new things from you :)

Quote from: The_Baroness on July 05, 2008, 12:59:19 PM
mmmmmm yes Mr Patches, your work is awesome indeed... and Mr Style.... i would love to see some new things from you :)

thank you baroness.. and i like to see some of styles stuff too ,, he is the one who inspired me..

Johnny O.o wonderful work!!! this wheel is... astonishiong

Wow, great work, Johnny! That Big Wheel is amazing.

Wow... I think Renegade has just been surpassed as the person with the biggest "Characters with Shield" fixation...

Seriously though, I really like the idea of the alpha all in one skopes that you guys have been working on, and the results thus far have been stellar.

I'm not very happy about this. I have a master file that has all these parts in it (my parts anyway) and if I wanted to release an all-in-one-mesh, I would have.

I've generally been good about skoping in as far as people doing it to make a version of a character that hasn't been made, or an a different character altogether, but I have always drawn the line at skopes and hexes that just repackage or tweak characters I've released. By doing this you put out something that uses my own hard work to make a mesh that competes with that very same work, thus creating a disincentive for someone to download the actual original meshes.

So Baroness, while I recognize the rather large amount of work you put in with Cap (and I should as I did it all first), I wish you had asked me about this before you started, because I really don't appreciate what was done here. What you do for your own private use is of no consequence to me and you can do what ever you like, but when you opt to release something like this it flat out devalues my work.

Ren perhaps it would help if I adjusted your entry in the permission thread. I'm just not sure what it should state. Maybe "with the exception of minor edits including all-in-one skopes"?
Let me know what you think.

I'm sorry Ren, i will mark it as no release and remove it..... i hope no hard feelings

Thanks Baroness. No hard feelings at all.

Quote from: Renegade on July 06, 2008, 11:49:16 PM
I'm not very happy about this. I have a master file that has all these parts in it (my parts anyway) and if I wanted to release an all-in-one-mesh, I would have.

I've generally been good about skoping in as far as people doing it to make a version of a character that hasn't been made, or an a different character altogether, but I have always drawn the line at skopes and hexes that just repackage or tweak characters I've released. By doing this you put out something that uses my own hard work to make a mesh that competes with that very same work, thus creating a disincentive for someone to download the actual original meshes.

So Baroness, while I recognize the rather large amount of work you put in with Cap (and I should as I did it all first), I wish you had asked me about this before you started, because I really don't appreciate what was done here. What you do for your own private use is of no consequence to me and you can do what ever you like, but when you opt to release something like this it flat out devalues my work.

Besides real talk there's no skope here or anywhere that comes close to replacing any mesh made by you Ren! And thats just me being real!

Quote from: style on July 07, 2008, 10:32:31 AM

Besides real talk there's no skope here or anywhere that comes close to replacing any mesh made by you Ren! And thats just me being real!

real talk

as i slowly remake every skope i ever previewed, I made this




and 2 skopes of styles hand skope to fit my personal hero files,




more comming soon

Armor Spider-man
was made from
tommyboys: thin chin mesh male
tommyboys: iron-man Armor
Original mesh: spidey
mesher: jik, i just use oringinal Bones and keyframes from this mesh
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/wicketharley_photo/armor.png
Scoped By Johnny Patches
crash dummy tested. armor spidey skin not included it can found on rens site
already uploaded and for release
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/WiCKeT_HaRLeYs_Freedom_Force_Skopes/files/

That just shows great minds think alike I did an Armored Spider-man skope similer to yours but never previewed it.

Alittle C6ing and something somethings added to JP's skope!



And a twist of one of his!


And Beast Skope!

wow! love that fantasticar! is it built from ink's oracle so sue can drive?

How did you get them to do the thumbs up?

Quote from: detourne_me on July 08, 2008, 11:08:38 AM
wow! love that fantasticar! is it built from ink's oracle so sue can drive?

Quote from: AfghanAnt on July 08, 2008, 11:41:15 AM
How did you get them to do the thumbs up?

These two questions will have to go to Johnny Patches. He did the bomb of a skope! :thumbup: I just added new hair to Sue a cigar in Grimms mouth and a kitbash of C6 skins and textures.

hey i like what you did with it..  :thumbup:
man we are too close on the amor-spider-man :cool:
That just shows great minds do think alike  :P

Quote from: style on July 08, 2008, 12:34:31 PM

Quote from: detourne_me on July 08, 2008, 11:08:38 AM
wow! love that fantasticar! is it built from ink's oracle so sue can drive?

Quote from: AfghanAnt on July 08, 2008, 11:41:15 AM
How did you get them to do the thumbs up?

These two questions will have to go to Johnny Patches. He did the bomb of a skope! :thumbup: I just added new hair to Sue a cigar in Grimms mouth and a kitbash of C6 skins and textures.

Bip01 L Finger0 & Bip01 L Finger0

Quote from: detourne_me on July 08, 2008, 11:08:38 AM
wow! love that fantasticar! is it built from ink's oracle so sue can drive?

yes it is ink's oracle.sue can i think maybe with a good kf master (hint hint) :D

NifScope Dr Doom
made from.
Original Mesh: Tharok_t
Original Mesher: tommyBoy
Original Mesh: Dr_Doom_tvlite
Original Mesher: tommyBoy
Original Mesh: vxmaleV2
Original Mesher: vertex
scoped by johnny patches
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/wicketharley_photo/doom.png

VX Doom! VEry, Very nice Johnny...but he can't shoot that gun right? Not to blow your very cool skope outta the water but...Renegade has a Doctor Doom mesh on the horizon. ;) :thumbup: UE and I were workin on one last year and Ren let us know that he had this in the pipe. Hence no skope. ;)

Yes I had to shut down one of my doom skopes I'd rather a Ren one any who! :thumbup:

And next on the skoping block!

Quote from: Johnny Patches on July 09, 2008, 03:59:57 AM
VX Dr Doom
made from.
Original Mesh: Tharok_t
Original Mesher: tommyBoy
Original Mesh: Dr_Doom_tvlite
Original Mesher: tommyBoy
Original Mesh: vxmaleV2
Original Mesher: vertex
scoped by johnny patches
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/wicketharley_photo/doom.png

OK, I've held my tongue on this for a long time, but the fact is, there are some aspects to NifSkoping that bug me.
Johnny, this is not aimed solely at you, Doom's a nice 'skope with some original touches, that in some ways escapes the criticism I have.

But this is the essence of my displeasure.
I make a mesh of a character like Iron Man, Or Dr. Doom, or anyone else. Someone else comes along and copies pretty much everything I've made onto a Vertex mesh and suddenly it's VX_Iron_Man, and VX_Dr_Doom.
Well, sorry, but that ticks me off that my work is labeled as being Vertex's. Vertex is a great mesher, and I'm sure that he's MORE than capable of making a better version of Iron Man or any other character than me. But the point is, he HASN'T. If the aim of these 'skopes is to get that character with fingers, I've made meshes with fingers that you could skope my parts onto.
The 'skoping of my parts onto Vertex meshes for original creations I can live with. But like Renegade said above, I do wonder at the point of my making stuff that is just going to be the raw material for what are often the exact same character using the exact same parts as my version. As long as there are some changes made (as Johnny has done with the Doom 'skope above), I'm OK with it.
But stuff like this:

I honestly think 'why did I bother?'. It certainly doesn't make me think, 'yes! I know, I'll spend a week on making this character so someone can skope all the parts onto a VX base!'. And it does mean I am less inclined to mesh, and to release stuff when I do.

What I particularly don't want to see is MY work labelled as 'VX_anything'. It's not a VX mesh, it's a skope, using parts made by Vertex and other artists.
And unless skopers are going to start a convention of labeling ALL 'skopes with ALL the contributing artists names in, or just stop this 'VX_' business when using my work, I'm afraid that I'm going to consider pulling my permission from this point on, for my future releases.
I would suggest that the convention used for naming 'skopes should be 'Name_of_character_skope'.

I don't mean to bring all this down on Johnny's head (or anyone else's), it's been bugging me for months as I watch versions of my meshes being re-released, sometimes using my own skin, often without any mention of who's work it is in this thread (though credit may be given in readmes). I think any 'end user' who downloads something called VX_Dr_Doom or VX_Iron Man or VX_Warlock or VX_Mandarin might not bother to read the readme.txt and just assume its a mesh made by Vertex.

I've nearly posted this post or something similar on a number of occasions, then pulled back. But I feel it's only fair to let people know what I'm feeling.


So to sum up and clarify:

1. You may use my existing body of work to create original 'skopes PROVIDED that said 'skopes are not labeled as some other mesher's creation.

2. You may NOT take the parts I have made that define a character and just plonk them down on someone else's mesh to create the same character I have already made. IF there are sufficient additions/changes/recombinations made to justify it as a new version that is SUBSTANTIALLY different from the version I have already made, then fine. (Johnny's Doc Doom works as an original skope, But fails the Naming Convention rule. Call it 'Dr.Doom_skope' or 'Dr.Doom_fingers' even, just not 'VX_Dr_Doom'). Just adding or removing a buckle, for instance, does not justify a new 'skope, as far as I'm concerned. I'm willing to discuss this with some leeway if people contact me, but if you can't be bothered to do that, assume that my answer is 'No, you may not skope the Pied Piper, or whoever, changing one or two parts'.

3. If you want to 'skope a version of something I've made onto a mesh with fingers but for whatever reason feel my fingered meshes aren't suitable, DO NOT label the resultant 'skope with someone else's name.

4. I like Nifskoping, really I do. Some wonderful, creative, brilliant stuff has been done, and is being done with it. My permission remains to use my meshes, within the terms set out above. 90-95% of the stuff in this thread I have no issues with. 90-95% of the 'skopes using my work I have no issues with. If anyone is unsure about using my stuff, PM me and ask, preferably with a picture of the end result. I'll crosspost some of this in the 'nifskope permissions' thread to reflect my changed 'rules'.

5. Should people feel unable or unwilling to abide by my wishes, I'll simply stop releasing meshes, and remove my work from my site, anyone else's sites, and close all my Yahoo groups. Not a threat or an ultimatum, just a statement of fact. You'll still have whatever has already been downloaded to play with, but nothing new will be added.

Sorry if any of this seems petty or unreasonable, and for the mega-rant-post, but I needed to communicate this.

Tommy...you are absolutely right. I myself have used pieces from your work to create certain characters...but I have tried to govern the amount of your work that I take from. If I have contributed to your displeasure...I most sincerely apologize. I am generally only skoping "originals" these days and will continue to do so because between you, Renegade, Yellow Lantern, Grenadier and all of the other meshers in the community past and present...we all have the superhero toys that we could wish for. ;)

I 100% agree Cas...... :rolleyes: But in Johnny's Defence he did do this:
VX Dr Doom
made from.
Original Mesh: Tharok_t
Original Mesher: tommyBoy
Original Mesh: Dr_Doom_tvlite
Original Mesher: tommyBoy
Original Mesh: vxmaleV2
Original Mesher: vertex
scoped by johnny patches

As Im sure he'll do and the rest of us skopers will do from now on is add skope at the end of the names of our skopes. Great Idea :thumbup:

Quote from: tommyboy on July 09, 2008, 06:49:04 AM
The 'skoping of my parts onto Vertex meshes for original creations I can live with. But like Renegade said above, I do wonder at the point of my making stuff that is just going to be the raw material for what are often the exact same character using the exact same parts as my version. As long as there are some changes made (as Johnny has done with the Doom 'skope above), I'm OK with it.

Well...he wasn't targeting Johnny but just the idea skopin all of his parts onto another mesh body like he never even did anything. Like the pick he showed of that Iron Man. ;)

I would have thought it obvious, but VX is the designation of an actual person, Vertex, who is the only one who can add that "brand" to a new mesh. The same way only I can make a new _REN mesh and only Tommyboy can make a _TV or _TF. I understand that people are trying to acknowledge the original mesher, but it really only muddies the waters.

Personally I would rather a skope was just labeled the "character name_skope" rather than "character name_REN_skope". Including "REN" makes it seem like I had something to do with it, which I didn't in any real direct way. The same holds for a so-called "VX" mesh. Last time I check Vertex wasn't much active around here anymore or releasing new meshes. The readme file should contain the source information of course, and that's enough as far as I'm concerned.

That sounds very reasonable Ren and I totally understand how that would clarify some of these skopes up. ;)....When I first started skoping I was extremely happy because I felt like I can finally add something to the Freedom Force community. And I Only touched characters that the meshers refuse to touch. Or gave a filler till they actually mesh the character. Or I would skope a mesh onto  another to get the keyframes that more so suites the character. Or maybe they didn't have a weapon and that character useally had one. How many meshers(and we don't have many these days) would say they'll mesh the Ultra Force team or The WildC.A.T's team? So I would skope the characters in that team that noone has done. I can't dictate everyone else but for now on I will as a promiss to the meshers out here mesh Characters that hasn't been done yet. Or need a weapon. For example I took two of or best meshers Vigilante meshes respectively and put them together. Because Rens mesh was bikeless. But I hope we as a skopers group get better at under standing principle of what would offend a mesher. We are really not trying to show anyone up or hurt any feelings or definately anger any of the meshers or skinners for that matter. For as they are the heart of this community!