Fantastic Four: First Steps

[BentonGrey]

Well, the first teaser trailer has dropped, and...well, for years I've said that we've missed the window for a classic, comic-faithful Fantastic Four movie.  I was positive that we'd see characters switched out, changed in various ways to be more diverse, younger, more appealing, or what-have-you, and all of the attempts before now have shown that nobody has a clue how to actually tell the family-centric, wonder-filled stories that define the team.  However, I may well have been wrong, and if so, I will be extremely pleased to discover it. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzMo-FgRp64

The trailer really looks great, with a wonderful retro-future aesthetic, and it seems to be a pretty much comic-faithful adaptation, at least in the glimpse we get.  And they even seem to be telling the Galactus story...which, while that is an amazing story, is a tough place to start, and honestly, a tough story to tell in one movie.

Nonetheless, I've gone from expecting nothing good to being cautiously optimistic. 

[WyldFyre]

I'm more cynical about this one. I 'hope' I'm wrong but they can somehow make the trailers the best part of the movie and the rest of it be horrible.

I do like the look and feel of the setting, but I'll hold judgement for now.

[BentonGrey]

WF, that's certainly very true about trailers, and I don't blame you at all.  But, if the trailer is at all a fair impression of the film, then they've got several things right from the jump, including the fact that they are a family who love one another, even with their soap opera tendencies. 

It's still very early days, so you are right to be skeptical.  But...well, maybe I am starting to hope a little bit...

It would be nice to get a wonder-filled, hopeful, and joyful film in the current grim climate.

[Randomdays]

I liked the general feel of the trailer, and hopefully we've moved on from having another Dr Doom plot, especially since the Avengers are taking him on. It was neat seeing Herbie as well.

The Thing was the most worrying thing for me - seeing him in the kitchen talking recipes and such was never part of his background as far as I can remember, going all the back to the beginning.

Also, I'd prefer his typical grumbling voice that's been used all the back to the Hanna Barbera version in the 60's

[WyldFyre]

The Thing was the most worrying thing for me - seeing him in the kitchen talking recipes and such was never part of his background as far as I can remember, going all the back to the beginning.

Also, I'd prefer his typical grumbling voice that's been used all the back to the Hanna Barbera version in the 60's

This is one of my reservations. Ben was always more rough and tumble than Betty Crocker. I 'do' like the look of the CG Thing, and the costumes are a nice throwback.

It would be nice to get a wonder-filled, hopeful, and joyful film in the current grim climate.

I really hope you're right, but I cannot understate hollywood's ability to muck things up.

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, agreed.  Ben's voice is the weakest part of it.  It's just not "gravely" enough.  I rather think that the fellow who portrayed him on the 90s cartoon was just about perfect.  That's the voice I hear when I read the Thing.

I really hope you're right, but I cannot understate hollywood's ability to muck things up.

It's truly astonishing.  It seems almost as infinite as human stupidity itself.    I mean, is there a team that has more amazing stories and such ready-made characterization than the FF?  It just seems like a good movie would almost write itself.  And yet...

[Randomdays]

Minor rant;

The saying "if it's not broke, don't fix it" comes to mind.

So many companies, like Dizney to name one, think that they have to "modernize" or "update" classic books and movies, and usually (from what I've seen) they please a very few with this, and alienate almost every one else.

And they don't seem to learn from the bad reviews and low box office returns.

I sill haven't seen the last FF movie, and really have no plans to.

Just leave things as they are - its what the fans of the original work want to see, not what some someone new thinks we want to see.

I also think its disrespectful to the original creators. I have no problem with new takes on the genre like "The Boys", but why would you want to turn something classic into that?

On a side note, I just read that DC is working on a Sgt Rock movie again, this time with Daniel Craig in the lead. Some of the previous attempts I read about moved him from WW2 to the present or the future, gave him a German father to complicate him, gave him a comedy sidekick, or had him fighting zombies.

Minor rant over

[BentonGrey]

I agree completely, RD.  I always say, if you don't want to use the character as they exist, pick a different one, or make your own!

[SickAlice]

It's something I guess I call too far down the road? I do not feel like the trailer tells me enough outside the aesthetic. But it's so far away and I am not looking at getting tickets or if I'll wait for digital to think a lot about it. The thing I am very interested in is I found Fantastic 4 does not translate from paper to film well so it's always interesting to see how filmmakers try and approach it. Like you can see here something made them decide to go with this retro look as opposed to the edgy look the last attempt. It will be interesting to see then how it goes over especially with world audiences, people that aren't into comic books, and after market. I do know how star power works and think Pedro alone will fill seats.

My mother is excited. She was a Fantastic Four, Hulk and Wonder Woman fan when she was a kid, Fantastic Four being her favorite. She is who introduced me to comics then of course. I was very critical of the 2005 movie then and she loved it and she pointed out things about that were reminiscent of stuff she liked about the comic book in the 60's. Heroes Reborn was probably were I first read Fantastic 4 otherwise. But I am just noting it because I can see where they also derived elements from the very old comic books and am already wondering how that will go over with broad audiences. You know like right away enough people were excited to see H.E.R.B.I.E. for example where more people than not in the world probably have no idea what that even is. And I think he looks good, ready to sell some toys lol. Actually I predict a lot of Galactus toys are going to sell after this releases.

Otherwise again I'm just passive about it and will probably feel something a little stronger once we are closer to the release. Like right now I am the Daredevil and Last Of Us brain while anticipating Thunderbolts* It's akin in a way to me travelling. Right now aside sudden circumstances that is a year or better out from now so I am more focused on the now. Though I suppose my favorite thing about movies and shows is acting. I was a theater buff as a kid. And that's I was showing up for in things like Daredevil (I watched the whole Netflix about a month before Born Again) and The Last Of Us. So while I can Pedro whose acting I enjoy the previews so far really have not given me much to have an idea what the performances are going to be like in this. Knowing of course one component is the actor but the other the script they have to work with.

edit: Right on female Surfer or Shall or whoever this is. As a comic book fan since childhood it just looks out of place to me though maybe again this will not register with international audiences but I recognize a lot of these iconic scenes including where she floats toward the screen with Galactus behind her. But my brain remembers a male Surfer in that image drawn by a classic artist. I will not presume the reason and do not think anyone who says they know does.  Common reasons would be needing more women in the cast, artistic license or some sort of signature that makes this film stand out from the rest (as we see the various Spider-Man and Batman films). Or and I am hoping this is because of a big plot twist. We do know the multiverse is in play and leading up to sort of movie about Hickman's Secret War. But to my eyes it is contrasting and feels out of place for now.

[Tomato]

*blows dust off the thread*

Saw FF last night. Before I jump head first into the spoilers, movie was really fun, highly recommend to anyone here who maybe has had a bit of MCU fatigue. Like with Superman, Fantastic Four is a movie that comes right out of the gate like "Yes, I'm a comic book movie, and I embrace that fact." It knows what it is, it knows what it's trying to do, and it's a lot of fun.

Ok, let's go Spoiler town now.

Spoiler

Let's get the big one out of the way: Shalla Bal Silver Surfer. Oh, they changed her gender because politics blah blah blah... No. The reason they chose not to do Norrin this go round is for storytelling reasons. In the original story, Sue reaches out to the Silver Surfer, appealing to his humanity and getting him to turn on Galactus. Those plot beats still need to happen, but frankly, Sue's busy right now. Instead, we shift that plot over to Johnny, which gives him something important to do in the story. Making Surfer a hot alien lady puts her in Johnny's orbit, which starts the dominos. It's part of an effort to balance everyone's stories, which works... for (ironically) everyone but Thing, but I'll get there.

I will say though, gender aside, Surfer is cool as heck in this movie. The number of times they incorporated that surfboard into a cool move or action beat... my goodness. I've never been that fond of Surfer as a character personally (yeah yeah, cosmic surfer. Whatever) but this movie was like "No, this concept is cool, they're cool, here's ALL OF THE EYE CANDY". She also looks really good. We've come a long way from the 2000s movie in terms of CGI metal. The work they do with some of those subtle reflections is *chefs kiss*

Going back to Human Torch, I think he's going to be the character fans are most conflicted on, but I liked it. I feel like the core is still there (he's still got the correct dynamic with Sue and with Ben) but rather than going the 2000s route and making him the hotshot pilot to justify why he was on that flight, he's an astronomer. Maybe not smart on the same level as Reed, but he's the one REALLY invested in Space exploration, in alien culture, all that jazz. It gives him his own unique dynamic with Reed in the movie, which I really liked.

We'll do Reed next, since I mentioned him. I really liked how Pedro portrays him. The movie does not shy away from the more negative aspects of Reed's character: This is the smartest man in the room, and he will look at every problem in the most cold, detached, logical way possible. But Pedro's great at subtly showing how much that fact tears away at him, how much he wants to just not think about those things, but he can't stop his mind going.

In short, anyone still going "wah, why'd they cast Pedro instead of John" is wrong. He nailed it. Not just as "internet daddy" but from his actual acting. I believe this Reed going toe to toe against Doom.

Sue was great from start to finish. I mentioned they gave her SS plotline to Johnny, but they do make a point of showing Sue as the peacekeeper in the team. Some of that's a bit ham-fisted (the ambassador stuff was a bit much), but her speech in front of the Baxter Building is a really solid showcase of it. The relationships she had with the others was really on point as well: I get solid sibling vibes with Johnny, and her back and forth with Reed is the beating heart of the movie. They also do NOT shy away from her as the powerhouse of the team, while Johnny's ability to move quickly is often more useful, by the end Sue's clearly THE most powerful member.

Finally, Thing. It kinda stinks, because you do see that there clearly was a plotline for him laid out (whole thing with a new love interest, scenes of him feeling mopey and non-human) but I feel like the heart of it got cut out in editing. Admittedly, that was probably the right call overall (this movie is plenty stuffed already, having a whole on-earth plotline would have been a needless distraction) but it is still a shame to see Thing relegated to pure Supporting Character status. Especially in light of the heartfelt dedication to Jack Kirby... more than any other character, I've always seen Ben as Kirby's self-insert. So yeah, it does kinda sting that the movie that goes out of its way to praise Kirby and embrace his visuals and concepts... sidelines the FF member based most on himself.

That said, when I mentioned this movie embracing its roots, my goodness. We don't show most of them because the movie doesn't want to hire actors for everyone, but Mole Man plays a decent role in the film, and we see a fight with Red Ghost's Super Apes (apparently there's a cut scene with Red Ghost himself, which is a shame but I do get it), and there's mentions of a whole bunch of other FF villains like Puppet Master, Mad Thinker, Diablo, etc.

As for the giant Green cloaked mech suit in the room... there are a few nods here and there, but Doom is mostly a non-factor in this movie. I'm surprised they didn't give him any lip service at a few points, but I'm also glad we're not bogging this movie down in that drama.

Galactus is perfect. He maybe could have been a bit more colorful, but they chose to drop that down a bit to contrast against the FF's bright colors. He's still gigantic and purple and blue and embracing Kirby's goofy design aesthetic, so it's a win in my book. There's not much to him as a character (his motivation is pretty straightforward) but they did a good job with the acting on him as well.

Overall, I'd say 8.5/10. There's some flaws, some things I'd personally have liked to see tweaked, but it's a solid Marvel (not MCU, *Marvel*) movie that serves as a MUUUUCH needed shot in the arm.

[BentonGrey]

That's a great review, 'Mato, and I think you're basically spot-on.  I'll post some specific responses to a few of your points later, but here's my own review.  I think we assessed it pretty similarly.  It's a great FF film, and a very strong superhero film in general.  I think you're rating is about right.  Being a teacher, I tend to think in grades, haha, and I'd give it a solid A.

Spoiler

Recently, I saw Fantastic Four: First Steps, and I thought I'd share some thoughts for anyone interested.  Now, let me preface this by saying two things.  First, the Fantastic Four are some of my favorite Marvel characters; I love their classic stories.  You're hard-pressed to find a better distillation of the amazing creativity and imagination Stan Lee and Jack Kirby poured into the nascent Marvel Universe than their run on the Fantastic Four's book.  Second, for years I have said that we are too far down the rabbit hole of the culture wars to get a classic, comic-faithful Fantastic Four.  It seemed to me inevitable that we'd get some stupid reinvention that tried to "update" them to the moment, providing something that completely misses the point of the team, like the last film.  Yet, when I saw the trailers for this movie, I thought that maybe, just maybe, I was wrong. 

Well, turns out, I was, and I have rarely been so pleased to be mistaken.  Simply put, this is a very good movie and an excellent adaptation of the Fantastic Four, far and away the best on film, not that there is that much competition.  It's not perfect, but it has no major flaws and many strengths.  Most importantly, just like with Gunn's Superman, this film succeeds because its creators seem to be folks who finally understand the FF.  From the very beginning, Fantastic Four stories have been about two things: the team as a family and the wonder of exploring the aptly named Marvel universe. 

And this film delivers on both scores, firmly and clearly focusing on the Four, not just as a team, but as a family, complete with family dinner every week, sharing each other's joys and sorrows, and loving and supporting one another through both.  And, just like Gunn's Superman, this film benefits greatly from arriving in an era where audiences are used to the marvelous, and it presents a universe that is full of wonder (and danger) in the finest tradition of the comics.  From the delightfully absurd foes of the Four that we meet in the montages, like communist super apes and the Mole Man and his moloids (yes, this film actually gives us a pretty much straight version of the Mole Man, which is incredible, another in the long line of things I never thought I'd see), to the planet munching menace of the god-like Galactus, the film is stuffed with the fantastic.  And, crucially, it doesn't waste any time trying to convince you that these things could exist; it simply presents them and trusts that you'll accept them. 

The film is full of visual wonder and delivers on spectacle, especially during the set pieces that take our heroes to Galactus's ship or see the giant planet-eater strolling through New York.  Yet, one of the best things about the film is found, not in those big moments, but in the simple world design.  The film has a delightful retro-futuristic aesthetic that is really well realized and is also part of the imaginative work of the movie, presenting us with a world remade by the presence of our heroes, an alternative past, hopeful, optimistic, and improved in seemingly every way.  It is both nostalgic and forward-looking, an interesting combination. 

In terms of the Four themselves, they're all reasonably well represented, with no one being particularly out of character and everyone being recognizable and presented as likable, sympathetic figures.  In a very pleasant surprise, the movie avoids the easy, lazy characterization shortcuts of comics and film (Reed as a cold fish, disconnected from his family, Johnny as an idiot man-child, etc), instead giving us versions of the characters that are unusually nuanced and warmly human. 

Sue is the mother and heart of the team, as she always has been, holding them together and keeping them sane, but she's also a woman struggling with what being an actual mother in such conditions might mean.  Vanessa Kirby does a solid job with Sue's struggles, though some of her delivery can be a bit cheesy.  Johnny and Reed, who are the easiest to get wrong, are both particularly impressive. 

Joseph Quinn's Johnny Storm is basically perfect: young, immature, and hot-headedly impulsive, yet not completely defined by those qualities.  He is also a loving brother and a man with hidden depths.  Pedro Pascal, for his part, plays his Reed Richards with his usual intensity and skill, delivering a nuanced, emotional performance as the smartest man in the world, and thus, the man upon whose shoulders the weight of that world rests.  His Mr. Fantastic is really great, balancing that pressure and drive, while not losing the love of his family that defines the character, even at his most distracted. 

The weakest of the characters is, ironically, the one that is easiest to get right, the biggest, boldest, most clearly drawn of the Four in the comics, Ben Grimm.  Now, don't get me wrong, he's still the weakest out of a strong field, so it's still a good portrayal, just not as good as it should be.  The Thing is written and played too subtly, and if there is anything 'the bashful, blue-eyed idol of millions' ain't, it's subtle.  Ebon Moss-Bachrach captures some of Ben's loneliness and insecurity, but he loses his bombastic nature in the process.  The comic Thing is lonely and insecure, but he hides those qualities underneath a mask of larger-than-life machismo. 

A perfect example is the film's treatment of the Thing's catchphrase, "It's clobberin' time!"  The film makes this phrase a product of an in-universe cartoon, a pop-culture exaggeration of Ben, and one he rejects.  This gives them a symbol to connect to his arc, as he finally delivers the line during the climax, but doing so has a cost to his broader characterization.  Nonetheless, it's still a fairly good portrayal overall, and compared to the ill-fated assassin-Thing of the previous movie, this one feels like it is channeled directly from the imagination of Jack Kirby.

The film's only real weakness is, perhaps, an inevitable one for an attempt to adapt the Galactus saga in a single movie.  It does a remarkably good job, but ultimately, this story is a little too big for the space they've got.  Now, unlike Superman, this movie doesn't feel overstuffed, and the whole feels well-paced and tightly scripted.  However, it's delivering a lot of information and emotional freight in a few scenes with Galactus and the Silver Surfer.  Interestingly, the change to the Surfer, from male to female, which annoyed me initially, proves to have a narrative purpose, as it streamlines the story. 

In the original story and most retellings, Ben's girlfriend, the blind sculptress, Alicia Masters, befriends the Surfer and helps him reconnect with his lost humanity.  That obviously adds another character and takes up more story time.  By making the character female, they collapse all of that into the main cast, with Johnny playing Alicia's role.  It makes for a more efficient story, and that efficiency is necessary, as Galactus requires a lot of plot to cram into one film. 

While the filmmakers handle the challenge deftly, we really needed to spend a bit more time on Zen-la, the Surfer's homeworld, and see her life and feel the pathos of her story, before it was resolved.  In the same way, we needed a bit more time with Galactus himself to fully abosrb the scope of his existence and the burden it represented. 

Nonetheless, these are fairly minor weaknesses, all told.  Ultimately, this is a strong and original Marvel film, definitely one of the best of the last several years, and, like Gunn's Superman, a hopeful and vibrant rebuttal to the doom and gloom that has seized our culture.  Fantastic Four achieves the inspiration that Superman only manages to brush against.  It presents us with a vision of a brighter world that might be, and it is a joyful and imaginative escape from our own dark horizons.  That's one of the chief purposes of the fantastic and of the superheroic, and this film gets that.  Go see it.  It's worth it.