She-Thor??

[detourne_me]

... or at least many a woman has handled his hammer.

Phrasing!

[AfghanAnt]

I don't know why but some of these comments seems misogynistic. Thor has been a frog, a muscly ginger, an alien, and an artitect, but he can't be a woman? Also if it is good for a classic What If story (Thordis anyone), why is it a problem now - these are just that - stories. 

Also if you hate it, just don't buy it. It really is that simple. No one wants to read your nerd-raging over something you probably don't even buy.

[Tomato]

Ummmm... I'm not one to rain on your parade man, but I think you're seeing controversy where there isn't any. The reaction to the news has actually been pretty positive, and most of the "negative" comments are negative about the gimmicky nature of the change, rather than "eww, a girl lead in a Marvel book? I might get cooties." And again, for every one comment about that, there are 3 that say "oh cool, a female lead thor book. that's cool."

[murs47]

The Thor thing is stupid because the male character's name IS Thor. He's a god, not a superhero. Yet they're going to call the female character Thor.

Maybe they'll call her Thormomma.

*crosses fingers*

[AfghanAnt]

Ummmm... I'm not one to rain on your parade man, but I think you're seeing controversy where there isn't any. The reaction to the news has actually been pretty positive, and most of the "negative" comments are negative about the gimmicky nature of the change, rather than "eww, a girl lead in a Marvel book? I might get cooties." And again, for every one comment about that, there are 3 that say "oh cool, a female lead thor book. that's cool."

Thanks for telling me what I read.

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard about and makes Marvel look ignorant of its own continuity:

Still feel the way though.

[Tomato]

Apparently I have to, because you didn't actually read what they said:

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard about and makes Marvel look ignorant of its own continuity:

Thor Odinson is a PERSON.  Mjnolir grants him POWERS.  While I am fine with Thor being judged unworthy and someone else getting to wield Mjnolir, that person gains Thor's POWERS, they do NOT BECOME Thor. Thor still exists. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb.

Someone else posted this on another forum and I thought it was such a good reason why this is so idiotic:

"This is the equivalent of saying that anyone who wears the Iron Man Armor becomes Tony Stark."

These are NOT misogynistic comments. THIS is a misogynistic comment. Brendon's comment is hyperbole, and given that this is still the internet, you should recognise it as such.

Coming into a thread and just saying that people are being misogynistic is hurtful, just like if you called someone racist or homophobic. It's the equivalent of me coming in here and saying "AA is a big giant stupidhead because I don't like his face." People are not going to react well, and you need to be careful where and how it's used.

Now, anytime something like this comes up (and the same thing has been happening with Captain America being black) issues of race and gender are going to come up. And, to be fair, there are one or two comments that make me shake my head a bit. But you came in declaring THE ENTIRE THREAD misogynistic, whereas over 2 thirds of the posts have been positive about the book. I could have understood if most of the thread or even half the thread was bashing the book, but the comments you're referring to are so minor that it hardly seems worth the venom implied in your post.

[AfghanAnt]

As always you are missing my point. Thor is a fictional character who has been through a bunch of changes. The comments I read tried to give logical reason why a fictional character can't be a woman or wouldn't be the "REAL" Thor. It is like arguing whose Santa Claus is the most correct. It becomes daunting to constantly read the same nerd-rage comment any time there is a racial/gender change to their "favorite" character. The whole point of this change (which Dr. Mike's very enlightened comment put so well) is Marvel want to increase diversity to get new readers and hopefully tell better stories.

Whether I felt it was a causal misogynistic comment is completely my opinion -'nuff said. You arguing with me about it doesn't make you correct, it makes your opinion different.

[bredon7777]

As the person who made the comment, it has nothing to do with misogyny and everything to do with continuity. And I am very tired of people defending the mangling of continuity(which should be paramount) with casual accusations of racism and misogyny with little to no thought behind them.

I find it insulting you gloss over the point where I said I would be fine with  a new God of Thunder in the Marvel universe who was a woman; hell if you want to do a reboot and make Thor a woman that would be also fine; double hell, if you actually want to make Thor into a woman, that's fine with me as well.  I consider it extremely stupid that someone who wields the hammer becomes Thor(woman or no) as it is in direct violation of continuity. They do NOT become Thor, they get his powers. That's how Marvel themselves set it up to work.  Claiming otherwise makes Marvel look stupid, IMO.  And yes, it is stupid continuity violations like this that led me to stop buying Marvel comics.

Now, Ive given this more thought and I could see the people on Earth assuming she's Thor and calling her Thor because she has Thor's power. As long as in private they make it clear she has another name, which seems likely due to the fact that Thor Odinson will not only still exist, but be a supporting character in the book, this may be less stupid than I originally thought.

I am all for increasing diversity and bringing in new readers in SMART ways (though lets be honest, this is a cheap PR gimmick which will be reversed by the time Avengers 2 comes out). Mangling continuity is never smart.

As for not complaining about it if I'm not buying it- I'm sorry are you aware how the Internet works?  I have as much right to complain about a boneheaded move by Marvel as you have to defend it.

But at least do me the courtesy of quoting my opinion and the reason why I think this is stupid accurately.

[BentonGrey]

As for not complaining about it if I'm not buying it- I'm sorry are you aware how the Internet works?  I have as much right to complain about a boneheaded move by Marvel as you have to defend it.

Yeah, folks have been dismissing opinions that they don't share with that type of logic lately, and it doesn't wash.  These are discussion boards, they exist for the purpose of discussion.  We shouldn't completely condemn a story we haven't read/watched, what have you, but we certainly don't have to have seen the finished product to talk about or express an opinion on a particular creative choice.  That is more or less the reason that this section of the boards exist, so we can talk about stuff going on in comics and movies.

I haven't really seen anything misogynistic so far in the community's responses.  In general, we're a pretty level-headed and fair-minded group, so I'd say it's best to give something that may cause you to raise an eyebrow the benefit of the doubt.  If you're concerned, why not ask them for clarification before jumping to a negative conclusion.

There's no reason to be rude if we happen to disagree, gents, so let's moderate our responses to one another.

[Starman]

It becomes daunting to constantly read the same nerd-rage comment any time there is a racial/gender change to their "favorite" character.

bredon7777, I'm not sure what your opinion is here. It was mentioned early in this thread and in the related news articles that this is a brand new female character using the superheroic moniker of Thor, as well as taking his powers. She's not replacing Odin's son Thor in the Marvel Universe ... he will continue to exist as a character.

Someone else posted this on another forum and I thought it was such a good reason why this is so idiotic:

"This is the equivalent of saying that anyone who wears the Iron Man Armor becomes Tony Stark."

I thought the equivalent would be that someone who takes on the role of Iron Man and wears the armour can use the superhero moniker Iron Man. The only difference is that Thor's birth name and superheroic name are the same ... I don't think that is a massive issue.

Yeah, folks have been dismissing opinions that they don't share with that type of logic lately, and it doesn't wash.  These are discussion boards, they exist for the purpose of discussion.  We shouldn't completely condemn a story we haven't read/watched, what have you, but we certainly don't have to have seen the finished product to talk about or express an opinion on a particular creative choice.

BentonGrey, if someone says they dislike something they haven't even read, makes huge generalisations or persistently pushes an uninformed opinion ... personally, I find those people's opinions difficult to take seriously and their posts exhausting to read.

[spydermann93]

BentonGrey, if someone says they dislike something they haven't even read, makes huge generalisations or persistently pushes an uninformed opinion ... personally, I find those people's opinions difficult to take seriously and their posts exhausting to read.

So long as they talk about the concept itself, I think that it's perfectly valid for somebody who has not read the series to express their distaste in the event.

However, if that person starts making remarks on how the writing is bad without having even read the story, that's where you run into issues.

For example (I'm just using this whole Thor shindig as an example), somebody could see the news that Thor is being replaced and say "Not again! Why do they do this stuff so much!?" and I would be perfectly fine with it.  I wouldn't necessarily agree with the opinion, but the stance is perfectly valid.  However, if the story has been out for quite some time and that person has not even given it a read, and they say "The writing to this story is so tasteless!  Look how right I was about this!", then yeah, that's just some hot air, right there.

I'm just going to see where it goes.  If the reviews are good enough and if I have enough money, I might check it out.

[Outcast]

Personally, i don't mind it much. I've seen this kind of gender change tactic enough times to become used to it.

I'm with Dr. Mike in that i would like to see some diversity from either Marvel or DC. But sometimes i think this is just a safe way yet lazy way of diversifying or increasing their character line ups. It's just reusing the same all iconic characters they already have over and over again. If they really want to increase and diversify their selection of characters, i just think that they should try inventing and creating new characters instead. Having their own names, look, powers, and stories of their own. But if she would be called She-Thor, i guess that would count her as a new ( though not a very original one at that ) character. Just like what happened to She-Hulk, Red Hulk, War Machine, Venom, Scarlet Spider, Batwoman, and so on. If that would be the end result, sure ok why not.

[SickAlice]

Sorry to drop this but maybe it will break some of the aggression in here. Anyone read She-Hulk #5? Anyways in sort of a related subject Herman Schultz aka the Shocker had this to say:

Spoiler

...leading in from Herman telling Jen about the rating system where thugs classify certain hero's into groups...

Jen: " Thors? There's only one Thor. "
Herman: " Nah. Lots. The fat one with the red beard, the hot blonde gal, the weird one with the horse face. "
Jen: " Those guys aren't Thor. That's Volstagg, and Valkerie, and..."
Herman: " Yep. Thors. Trust me. They're all Thors. "

Lol, just thought that was funny considering. And hey, Word Of God there and canon. I'm not one to argue with Herman usually so I guess that's the mantra now. Or at least something I'm considering printing on a bumper sticker. Anyways sorry for the interruption, have fun peeps.

[spydermann93]

Personally, i don't mind it much. I've seen this kind of gender change tactic enough times to become used to it.

I'm with Dr. Mike in that i would like to see some diversity from either Marvel or DC. But sometimes i think this is just a safe way yet lazy way of diversifying or increasing their character line ups. It's just reusing the same all iconic characters they already have over and over again. If they really want to increase and diversify their selection of characters, i just think that they should try inventing and creating new characters instead. Having their own names, look, powers, and stories of their own. But if she would be called She-Thor, i guess that would count her as a new ( though not a very original one at that ) character. Just like what happened to She-Hulk, Red Hulk, War Machine, Venom, Scarlet Spider, Batwoman, and so on. If that would be the end result, sure ok why not.

I realllllly hope that they don't just call her "She-Thor".  That takes the fun out of a new character being introduced. I would really like a clever name to come out of this.  It gets boring when female characters are just named after a titular male character.  Yeah, some heroines under genderswapped monikers have made it quite well (Supergirl, Batgirl, She-Hulk, etc.), but it just feels lazy.

"Don't go for something new if you aren't going to put a good amount of effort into it."
~Somebody wise

@SA

Hahaha! I love that!  That is gold, right there!

[Tomato]

*shrug* Addressing Brendon's post (I meant to do so ages ago, but the thread had moved on to other things... but since it's kinda come up again anyway) While it's perfectly fair to say that whoever holds Mjolnir does not become Thor Odinson, it IS established since the original continuity that whoever wields the hammer possesses the power of Thor. And in the early comics (and many modern ones) whoever wielded the hammer actually became Thor. So there IS basis for this in established canon which you're overlooking.

And lets be honest... much as we might rave about continuity, no writer in the history of writing has EVER put continuity above telling a good story, nor (realistically) should they. If "canon" gets in the way of say... having a female protagonist in a Legend of Zelda game, then you change the rules so that can happen. I stopped caring about continuity back when I realized I was only reading books that had nothing to do with major crossover events purely because I was scared about following all the continuity. Continuity is a storytelling device, a way of leading readers into newer and better stories, it should not be shackles to which stories should be tied.

[Talavar]

Sorry to drop this but maybe it will break some of the aggression in here. Anyone read She-Hulk #5? Anyways in sort of a related subject Herman Schultz aka the Shocker had this to say:

Spoiler

...leading in from Herman telling Jen about the rating system where thugs classify certain hero's into groups...

Jen: " Thors? There's only one Thor. "
Herman: " Nah. Lots. The fat one with the red beard, the hot blonde gal, the weird one with the horse face. "
Jen: " Those guys aren't Thor. That's Volstagg, and Valkerie, and..."
Herman: " Yep. Thors. Trust me. They're all Thors. "

Lol, just thought that was funny considering. And hey, Word Of God there and canon. I'm not one to argue with Herman usually so I guess that's the mantra now. Or at least something I'm considering printing on a bumper sticker. Anyways sorry for the interruption, have fun peeps.

That was a great bit.  The new She-hulk run has been fun.

[detourne_me]

Right on Talavar and SA!
That's how I look at it too,  I'm assuming that civilians in the marvel universe might say the same thing as shocker.
When people talk about different athletes, I just say "yup. They are sports players"

[JeyNyce]

http://io9.com/heres-what-thor-will-look-like-now-that-hes-no-longer-t-1609140391?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

So it's Thor and Thor Odinson...go figure

[Podmark]

Yeah Thor Odinson is still around. He becomes unworthy of his hammer somehow and this new woman (might be an existing character) takes up the hammer and gets it's powers. We don't know the context of why she's called Thor though. Everything I've heard so far sounds as if it fits well with established continuity.

[spydermann93]

How exactly did Thor end up not being worthy of Mjolnir?

Or has that not been explained, yet?

[Podmark]

How exactly did Thor end up not being worthy of Mjolnir?

Or has that not been explained, yet?

Hasn't happened yet. He'll be unworthy by or during the AXIS event which starts in October I think. New Thor is after or during AXIS.

[spydermann93]

How exactly did Thor end up not being worthy of Mjolnir?

Or has that not been explained, yet?

Hasn't happened yet. He'll be unworthy by or during the AXIS event which starts in October I think. New Thor is after or during AXIS.

Ah, ok.

[JeyNyce]

I thought  it would happen after Original Sin because he open the 10th world to get his sister

[DrMike2000]

And Marvel continue to show their dedication to building up their female cast by getting Greg Land to draw Spiderwoman in a new ongoing! What could possibly go wrong?

Seriously, fingers crossed that he and Dennis Hopeless (who I don't know at all) do a good job. After all, Ed Benes was a brilliant and somewhat unlikely pairing with Gail Simone on Birds of Prey, and that was fantastic.

[trebean]

It was JLA/Avengers that was in continuity, Marvel vs DC wasn't if it was they would have referenced it in JLA/Avengers, if you're wondering how JLA/Avengers is canon, the Krona Egg is later used in a later storyline and the Avengers are referenced, albeit not directly