Game of Thrones

[Starman]

I'm not sure if I liked the finale. For one, this episode signalled the heavy fantasy elements creeping into almost every plot thread ... even Kings Landing, with the slightly jarring mad scientist stuff. The show started off with Dany's storyline being the most fantastic and the rest being pseudo-medieval politics, but now magic is everywhere, aside from Theon's storyline.

Spoiler

Also, I didn't find the deaths in this episode very satisfying.

The Hound getting beaten up by Brienne would have been more believable if they'd emphasised his infected bite wound (I also had this problem when she defeated Jaimie in a duel without emphasising his weakness from imprisonment). As it was, it looked like Brienne just overpowered him ... since we've seen The Hound crushing groups of opponents before, having his head punched off by a tall woman was a bit of an eye-rolling WTF? moment for me.

Tyrion killing Shae was also a weird scene. So, Shae just reverted from her more sympathetic TV version back to her duplicitous prostitute mode from the book? And being strangled by a dwarf means you are paralysed and dead in seconds? Did he snap her neck??? Also, this scene was changed from a straight up murder in the book to practically self defence.

Tyrion killing Tywin (who was probably THE bad guy of the show, alongside Joffrey and Littlefinger) was also a let down, since Tyrion's motivation was no longer avenging his wife's assault (mentioned in Season 1, I think). Who cares if Tywin called Shae a whore? She was sleeping with Tyrion's father and just tried to stab him!

I DID like Jojen's death ... that was unexpected, and Jojen and Meera never really served much of a purpose anyway, aside from explaining things / guiding Bran.

[HarryTrotter]

Is it just me or was the CGI truly horrible this episode?I was ROFL-ing the whole time after I saw those skeletons.

[detourne_me]

Spoiler

so did Varys escape with Tyrion? It looked like he was going home, but when he heard the alarm he went back to the boat to sit with Tyrion. There's going to be a whole new status quo next season.

Also, no one expects the Stannis inquisition!

[HarryTrotter]

Spoiler

so did Varys escape with Tyrion? It looked like he was going home, but when he heard the alarm he went back to the boat to sit with Tyrion. There's going to be a whole new status quo next season.

Also, no one expects the Stannis inquisition!

Spoiler

I think he did get away.
Everyone expected Stannis.it was in the books.

[detourne_me]

Spoiler

so did Varys escape with Tyrion? It looked like he was going home, but when he heard the alarm he went back to the boat to sit with Tyrion. There's going to be a whole new status quo next season.

Also, no one expects the Stannis inquisition!

Spoiler

I think he did get away.
Everyone expected Stannis.it was in the books.

But his chief weapon was surprise!

[Reepicheep]

Spoiler

so did Varys escape with Tyrion? It looked like he was going home, but when he heard the alarm he went back to the boat to sit with Tyrion. There's going to be a whole new status quo next season.

Also, no one expects the Stannis inquisition!

Spoiler

I think he did get away.
Everyone expected Stannis.it was in the books.

But his chief weapon was surprise!

Surprise, Fear and a fanatical dedication to the crazy witch lady.

[Shogunn2517]

I'm not sure if I liked the finale. For one, this episode signalled the heavy fantasy elements creeping into almost every plot thread ... even Kings Landing, with the slightly jarring mad scientist stuff. The show started off with Dany's storyline being the most fantastic and the rest being pseudo-medieval politics, but now magic is everywhere, aside from Theon's storyline.

Spoiler

Also, I didn't find the deaths in this episode very satisfying.

The Hound getting beaten up by Brienne would have been more believable if they'd emphasised his infected bite wound (I also had this problem when she defeated Jaimie in a duel without emphasising his weakness from imprisonment). As it was, it looked like Brienne just overpowered him ... since we've seen The Hound crushing groups of opponents before, having his head punched off by a tall woman was a bit of an eye-rolling WTF? moment for me.

Tyrion killing Shae was also a weird scene. So, Shae just reverted from her more sympathetic TV version back to her duplicitous prostitute mode from the book? And being strangled by a dwarf means you are paralysed and dead in seconds? Did he snap her neck??? Also, this scene was changed from a straight up murder in the book to practically self defence.

Tyrion killing Tywin (who was probably THE bad guy of the show, alongside Joffrey and Littlefinger) was also a let down, since Tyrion's motivation was no longer avenging his wife's assault (mentioned in Season 1, I think). Who cares if Tywin called Shae a whore? She was sleeping with Tyrion's father and just tried to stab him!

I DID like Jojen's death ... that was unexpected, and Jojen and Meera never really served much of a purpose anyway, aside from explaining things / guiding Bran.

Actually I kind of disagree.

Spoiler

I didn't think there was anything weird at all about Tyrion killing Shae.  I don't know of the the characterization you're talking about, only someone who gained Tyrion's trust and then betrayed him when he was most vulnerable.  That made for a pretty passionate scene with him killing her.  Which is what happened.  However it might have been conveyed in the books, this was not it but was credible enough for me.  Just as with Tywin's death(who was oddly one of my favorite characters since Khal Drogo).  Tyrion's motivate was his dad turning his back on him, stealing and corrupting the one thing that made him happy and sentencing him to death...  Would be enough for me.  Again, if the books said his his motivation was his wife, then I can't relate because the show is different.  Alas with Brienne, I find her beating the Hound also credible.  Again, because this is the tv show and not the books, her characterization might be not what you're saying it is, but the idea of a female never given any sort of recognition from her male counterparts, but so far we've seen her not just beat every male we've seen her up against, but three of the best we've seen in the show(Loras, Jamie and Hound).  Maybe they didn't pay up the Hound's bite.  Okay, that's fine.  In my eyes, it goes with the idea of in the show that Brienne being THAT good.

So if this is different than the books, I can't be mad at that because this is the television series and that's all that I am familiar with.

[Shogunn2517]

Spoiler

so did Varys escape with Tyrion? It looked like he was going home, but when he heard the alarm he went back to the boat to sit with Tyrion. There's going to be a whole new status quo next season.

Also, no one expects the Stannis inquisition!

Spoiler

I think he did get away.
Everyone expected Stannis.it was in the books.

Spoiler

Everyone, but everyone who doesn't read the books.

[captmorgan72]

I'm in complete agreement with Shogunn.

Spoiler

Brienne is a superb swordsmen but her beating Sandor had a lot to do with his bite infection slowing him down and weakening him. Arya noticed in an earlier episode that the infection was taking it's toll on him. I'm still confused about Tywin dieing from those bolts. I saw one to the lower abdomen and one to the shoulder. I wouldn't think those wounds would be fatal. I'm really looking forward to what becomes of Gregor. Will he become even more of a monster than he already is?

[Talavar]

I'm in complete agreement with Shogunn.

Spoiler

Brienne is a superb swordsmen but her beating Sandor had a lot to do with his bite infection slowing him down and weakening him. Arya noticed in an earlier episode that the infection was taking it's toll on him. I'm still confused about Tywin dieing from those bolts. I saw one to the lower abdomen and one to the shoulder. I wouldn't think those wounds would be fatal. I'm really looking forward to what becomes of Gregor. Will he become even more of a monster than he already is?

Re: injuries...

Spoiler

I would say a gut wound in a society without antibiotics or modern surgical techniques would almost certainly be fatal, though how quickly it would kill is variable.  We're talking crossbow bolts from a few feet away - they'd have driven so deep Tywin would probably have holes right through him.

[HarryTrotter]

I'm in complete agreement with Shogunn.

Spoiler

Brienne is a superb swordsmen but her beating Sandor had a lot to do with his bite infection slowing him down and weakening him. Arya noticed in an earlier episode that the infection was taking it's toll on him. I'm still confused about Tywin dieing from those bolts. I saw one to the lower abdomen and one to the shoulder. I wouldn't think those wounds would be fatal. I'm really looking forward to what becomes of Gregor. Will he become even more of a monster than he already is?

Re: injuries...

Spoiler

I would say a gut wound in a society without antibiotics or modern surgical techniques would almost certainly be fatal, though how quickly it would kill is variable.  We're talking crossbow bolts from a few feet away - they'd have driven so deep Tywin would probably have holes right through him.

Basicly Worf had the Flu http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WorfHadTheFlu

Stannis is so manly he has his own theme song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaJVoZ03sik

[Reepicheep]

Another agreement with Shogunn here.

Spoiler

I think its reached the point that it isn't worth comparing the books and the series, especially when it comes to character development. Or even character deaths.

Brienne is a tank. I'm not sure I quite get this discussion - whether or not Sandor is feeling a bit weak around the ears, she's indisputably a worthy match.

And yes, I'm certain Tyrion had enough motivation to murder Shae - finding her in his father's bed like that was the nail in the coffin there. (Does that mean that Tywin planted her as a witness at the trial, rather than Cersei?)

Edit: Just reread and realised we were talking about the motivation to kill Tywin, not Shae. I realise the book version reflected on a new revelation around Tyrion's wife, but I believe Tyrion had plenty of reason for killing Tywin regardless. Not only from the immediate events, but throughout Tyrion's entire tortured life. I also believe Tyrion wants to see the Lannisters off the throne, since he is intimate with the various corruptions that his own family is involved in, as well as their illegitimate claim to the throne. Killing Tywin is bound to ensure that they'll lose their power.

I'd also like to second Shogunn's notion that Tywin was a favourite. I definitely appreciated him as a "greater good" type villain. But he was nowhere near the evil of Joffrey or Cersei. He was also the only thing holding King's Landing from complete chaos. It seems Varys would agree with me there.

Heres my question re: Tywin - do you think he was honest when he said he wouldn't let them execute Tyrion? Or was he just desperate in that moment?

[detourne_me]

Spoiler

Tywin was totally lying through his teeth, a last ditch attempt to get his way.  It was really reminiscent of the Hound pleading with Arya for death, but also the complete opposite in a way.  I think the central theme of the episode had to do with choosing your family, as Cersei pointed out when getting back together with Jaime.  She chose Jamie not Tywin, Jamie chose Tyrion, not his father, Tyrion chose himself as well. Arya chose to not become the Hound, and set out for herself, and then you have Bran and Daneryus having to face hard choices.

As for Brienne of Tarth, She is pretty hardcore. Didn't she beat Loras in the little tournament at Renley's camp? Loras was in the top five swordsmen in Westeros. And now, not only does she have Valeryian steel, but a new custom suit of armor, too.


Also, cause I just can't let the joke die.... I didn't expect the Stannis Inquisition!

[Shogunn2517]

Spoiler

Ultimately, I think Tywin's end game was to minimize Tyrion's role in his family.  Jamie's deal to have Tyrion go to the Night's Watch was what he wanted to be OUT the way and NOT his heir and then Jamie sweetened the pot with his deal.  Did he want Tyrion to die?  Probably not, but he wasn't going to get bent out of shape about it.  But yeah, I don't know if it was Charles Dance's portrayal or him being a perfect foil to Joffrey or just his command, but Tywin was AWESOME.  But you got to be a hardcase when you're able to check the two POS's in the show(Cersi and Joffrey).

[bat1987]

My fave Tywin scene (also some cool Tyrion stuff in there)
Obviously some spoilers are involved for those who aren't caught up withs season 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gxAtIjHwbc 

[Talavar]

So apparently...

Spoiler

book/show spoilers coming...

Spoiler

word on the street is that we're never getting resurrected zombie Catlyn Stark.  Like never getting Coldhands, I hate when the show basically confirms a character isn't important because they're cutting them entirely.

[Reepicheep]

So apparently...

Spoiler

book/show spoilers coming...

Spoiler

word on the street is that we're never getting resurrected zombie Catlyn Stark.  Like never getting Coldhands, I hate when the show basically confirms a character isn't important because they're cutting them entirely.

Spoiler

I'm amazed you're surprised by this, given the series so far. But lets talk about importance - you got me thinking.

A character doesn't have to be alive, or even present to be important. Death doesn't make Catlyn an unimportant character in the least bit - quite the opposite in fact. The show has a way of building important, relatable characters for us and then taking them away. It aims to give the audience a sense of loss that hardly any other show achieves, and bloody well succeeds! I was certain that Robb Stark would be on the throne by now.

Then there are the butterfly effects. The actions they set in their lives, the consequences of those actions, as well their martyrdom still play a prominent role.

[Talavar]

So apparently...

Spoiler

book/show spoilers coming...

Spoiler

word on the street is that we're never getting resurrected zombie Catlyn Stark.  Like never getting Coldhands, I hate when the show basically confirms a character isn't important because they're cutting them entirely.

Spoiler

I'm amazed you're surprised by this, given the series so far. But lets talk about importance - you got me thinking.

A character doesn't have to be alive, or even present to be important. Death doesn't make Catlyn an unimportant character in the least bit - quite the opposite in fact. The show has a way of building important, relatable characters for us and then taking them away. It aims to give the audience a sense of loss that hardly any other show achieves, and bloody well succeeds! I was certain that Robb Stark would be on the throne by now.

Then there are the butterfly effects. The actions they set in their lives, the consequences of those actions, as well their martyrdom still play a prominent role.

I don't mean...

Spoiler

more potential book spoilers coming...

Spoiler

that Catelyn's entire character was unimportant, just her resurrection as Lady Stoneheart, and everything done with the character from that point in the books.  A lot about Lady Stoneheart (as zombie Catelyn gets known by) hasn't been explained or resolved in the books yet - how Brienne escaped getting hanged by her, her bloody vengeance on the Freys, Brienne potentially taking Jaime to her for some reason, etc., and now the show, by cutting her role entirely, has basically said none of that stuff matters. 

It's also concerning, because, without Lady Stoneheart, Brienne's storyline is effectively caught up with the books.  What's she going to do next season?  It's either going to be based on notes from George RR Martin, spoiling more of as yet unpublished books, or made up by the showrunners entirely to kill time until another book is out.

Coldhands is similar.  In the books, the mystery of what happened to Benjen Stark is an ongoing concern, as is the mystery of who the heck is Coldhands, and is he somehow Benjen.  The show, in entirely cutting that storyline, has effectively given it the stamp of 'not actually important' as well. 

When the show leaves out minor characters or tweaks plot events you can put it down to the nature of adapting the source material, but when major characters and developments are cut, particularly those that haven't been book-resolved yet, it's demonstrating that those developments are irrelevant, and that's frustrating, particularly for readers who've been awaiting a conclusion to this story for nearly 20 years now.

[Reepicheep]

So apparently...

Spoiler

book/show spoilers coming...

Spoiler

word on the street is that we're never getting resurrected zombie Catlyn Stark.  Like never getting Coldhands, I hate when the show basically confirms a character isn't important because they're cutting them entirely.

Spoiler

I'm amazed you're surprised by this, given the series so far. But lets talk about importance - you got me thinking.

A character doesn't have to be alive, or even present to be important. Death doesn't make Catlyn an unimportant character in the least bit - quite the opposite in fact. The show has a way of building important, relatable characters for us and then taking them away. It aims to give the audience a sense of loss that hardly any other show achieves, and bloody well succeeds! I was certain that Robb Stark would be on the throne by now.

Then there are the butterfly effects. The actions they set in their lives, the consequences of those actions, as well their martyrdom still play a prominent role.

I don't mean...

Spoiler

more potential book spoilers coming...

Spoiler

that Catelyn's entire character was unimportant, just her resurrection as Lady Stoneheart, and everything done with the character from that point in the books.  A lot about Lady Stoneheart (as zombie Catelyn gets known by) hasn't been explained or resolved in the books yet - how Brienne escaped getting hanged by her, her bloody vengeance on the Freys, Brienne potentially taking Jaime to her for some reason, etc., and now the show, by cutting her role entirely, has basically said none of that stuff matters. 

It's also concerning, because, without Lady Stoneheart, Brienne's storyline is effectively caught up with the books.  What's she going to do next season?  It's either going to be based on notes from George RR Martin, spoiling more of as yet unpublished books, or made up by the showrunners entirely to kill time until another book is out.

Coldhands is similar.  In the books, the mystery of what happened to Benjen Stark is an ongoing concern, as is the mystery of who the heck is Coldhands, and is he somehow Benjen.  The show, in entirely cutting that storyline, has effectively given it the stamp of 'not actually important' as well. 

When the show leaves out minor characters or tweaks plot events you can put it down to the nature of adapting the source material, but when major characters and developments are cut, particularly those that haven't been book-resolved yet, it's demonstrating that those developments are irrelevant, and that's frustrating, particularly for readers who've been awaiting a conclusion to this story for nearly 20 years now.

Spoiler

Book Spoiler, I guess.

Spoiler

Ah, right! I see what you're saying now. I didn't realise Zombie Catlyn was actually a thing from your first post! You'll have to forgive that I have not read all of your second post, since I want to stay in the dark.

I'd say wait and see - rumours could be leaked to suspend some surprise.

[murs47]

Spoiler

When Prince Obryn was killed, my dream of seeing a fellow Mexican ride a dragon was shattered.

This season's finale was very positive in comparison to the previous finales, however. *suspicious*

[Shogunn2517]

Just saw something with a read through Wikipedia.  Had a FB friend of mine post an article about the lack of diversity in GOT, which I thought was ridiculous becau more than half the world is not white.  But to prove that point, I went to check the spelling of some names and saw some familiar faces cast for season 5:

Kiesha Castle-Hughes from Whale Rider and Revenge of the Sith will be playing Obara Sand.  By her last name you can tell she's a ambiguously foreborn, her father being Prince Oberyn Martell.

Alexander Siddig from Star Trek DS9 and 24(Day 6) will be playing Lord Doran Martell, the older brother of Oberyn Martell.

Another name that I saw that caught my eye was Jonathan Pryce, who's had a number of roles from GI Joe to Command and Conquer and Brothers Grimm.

[Silver Shocker]

Just saw something with a read through Wikipedia.  Had a FB friend of mine post an article about the lack of diversity in GOT, which I thought was ridiculous becau more than half the world is not white.  But to prove that point, I went to check the spelling of some names and saw some familiar faces cast for season 5:

Kiesha Castle-Hughes from Whale Rider and Revenge of the Sith will be playing Obara Sand.  By her last name you can tell she's a ambiguously foreborn, her father being Prince Oberyn Martell.

Alexander Siddig from Star Trek DS9 and 24(Day 6) will be playing Lord Doran Martell, the older brother of Oberyn Martell.

Another name that I saw that caught my eye was Jonathan Pryce, who's had a number of roles from GI Joe to Command and Conquer and Brothers Grimm.

Don't watch the show, but those castings are nice. I always liked Siddig, and it's great to see see get more work after DS9.

Jonathan Pryce I like, he was a good President in GI Joe and he was a decent Bond villain in Tommorrow Never Dies.

[HarryTrotter]

Anyone watching season 5? 
Julian Bashir is the ruler of Dorne,thats awessome.

[Shogunn2517]

It's interesting... These producers promised more of the individual storylines would be converging this season, or we'll be seeing more cross over.  They seem to be setting it up over the last few episodes(end of S4 and start of S5).  One of the biggest draws of this show is to see how it all turns out.  Does Daenarys return to Westeros?  Will Stannis make his move(again)?  What will Dorne's reaction be to the death of Oberyn AND Tywin?  Will a Stark sibling meet ANY other surviving Stark sibling ever again?  So many questions that have lingered for seasons.  Show would be enough to continue to watch even if the acting, directing and writing wasn't absolutely spectacular already.

[HarryTrotter]

The show changed so much,that it has very little in common with the books at this point.So I really no idea where this is going.Im really sad they cut out Griffs.I hope that at least that plot is moved to season 6,since they are probably my favourite characters. 

[bat1987]

First half of this season was pretty slow, but man oh man did it pick up in the second half.

[JeyNyce]

Last night episode was good, but nothing beats last week's with Jon Snow and the White Walkers

[bat1987]

The highlights for me this season:

Spoiler

- Tyrion meeting Daenerys
- Cersei in prison. Finally she gets to suffer.
- Just when you thought you couldn't hate someone as much as Joffrey, comes Ramsay Snow
- The White Walker battle! Unbeleivable, also reminds us how dangerous they really are.
- The scene where Stannis's daughter gets burned was shocking and horrible. From the moment she realizes what's going on to her screaming. Just when you thought he's not as psycho as he seemed.
- The finale of the last episode was pretty spectacular. Daenerys riding Drogon was really epic.

Probably forgot something. Can't wait for season finale.

[HarryTrotter]

I should probably say that in the books Stanis would never do that,but I dont think anyone cares about the books at this point.

[bat1987]

Well the whole thing

Spoiler

was actually George RR. Martin's idea, so he might do it in the books as well.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/08/game-of-thrones-showrunners-talk-last-nights-death-scene