Who is Hank Pym?

[Tomato]

Just because I'm bored, and I was curious what people thought. The subject is somewhat on my mind due to the Ant Man film (which I'll be seeing Sunday) since there's talk of how much they're incorporating from Hank Pym and Wasp's backstories in the comics.

[kkhohoho]

To me, Hank Pym is Hank Pym (Or 'Dr.Pym', according to my vote in the polls...); a heroic but troubled man who just couldn't decide who he really wanted to be. He finally seemed to get himself together in the late 80's when he dropped all his Superhero monikers and just went by Dr.Pym, scientist-adventurer extraordinaire. When Pym drops the costumes and the codenames, that's generally when he's the most stable and the most whole, and when he starts putting a costume on again, that's usually when his issues start cropping back up. He also just seems to be the most useful and competent when just Dr.Pym, proving that you don't always need to be a traditional Superhero to be a b@d@$$. So for me, Dr.Pym is Hank Pym. (And vice-versa.)

[BentonGrey]

I chose Ant-Man, but I wish there was an Ant/Giant Man option, as that's what I'd choose.  I love Hank Pym, but his biggest problem has always been that dynamic.  He's a good character, but he needs a name that works with his full powerset, because when he's got all of them, he's really a fun addition to the Avengers.  He was great in the 60s and 70s, but for my money he went off the reservation when they had him go nuts and become Yellowjacket.  All he needs is a good name and the concept would have legs.

[Podmark]

I picked Giant-Man, but one of the things I love about the character is how many incarnations he's had. He's fairly unique in that. Pym is likely my favourite Avenger, something about him has just always connected with me.

[kkhohoho]

I chose Ant-Man, but I wish there was an Ant/Giant Man option, as that's what I'd choose.  I love Hank Pym, but his biggest problem has always been that dynamic.  He's a good character, but he needs a name that works with his full powerset, because when he's got all of them, he's really a fun addition to the Avengers.

Except that he's gotten an extra power or two since the Giant Man days. In the late 80's, he got the ability to shrink other people or things instead of himself. Need a blow-torch? In his left pocket. Have a hole you can't quite get over? There's a bridge somewhere in his shoe. Need an freaking awesome laser-gun? Just check his trousers, and now we're talkin'! And so long as he could get close, all he needed to do was get so much as a hairs' breadth near you and you'd be brought down to size, literally. By Kurt Busieks' run, he could shrink and grow himself again, but he could still shrink and grow other people and things, and I think that's probably the most useful ability he's ever had. (He even stored a freaking aircraft in his pants; that's how awesome it was!) Really, he doesn't need a code-name. Just call him 'Hank Pym' these days, and he should have all his abilities. (Well, at least he did before he fused with Ultron and became a robot. Yes, that happened. Make of that what you will.)

[Tomato]

Personally, I went with Giant Man... Aside from being one of the only identities that's more or less unique to Hank (Antman went to Scott, Goliath went to Clint and later to Bill, Yellowjacket was taken by Rita... and I honestly wish it had been given to O'Grady once Scott came back, and Wasp... ugh.), it's also been the one I associate with some of his better stories. Kkhohoho mentions Dr Pym being where Hank's been the most stable, but he's been fairly stable as Giant Man as well... he adopted it after coming to terms with Janet's death in Antman and Wasp, and it was the identity he was using during the Avengers Forever series (which contrasted the stability of that version of Hank with his original mental breakdown as Yellowjacket).

That said, I totally get Kkhohoho's point about the powerset for Dr. Pym. I guess I'm just a sucker for a good superhero outfit. The "Modern" Giant man costume from Avengers Academy was so cool, and that book really made me love the character again.

[BentonGrey]

All good points, Kk, but those are not necessarily limited to just the nameless Pym.  The character's central problem is a lack of clarity of concept, and him having NO obvious central concept doesn't help that.  I think my wife's reaction to the character in Avengers EMH and the movie trailers is a pretty good microcosm of the issue.  She sees this guy called Ant-Man suddenly grow to giant size, and she turns to me and says, "wait, so he's Ant-Man, but he grows too?  That's stupid."  She can't get past the inconsistency.  I imagine that's part of the trouble.

[kkhohoho]

All good points, Kk, but those are not necessarily limited to just the nameless Pym.  The character's central problem is a lack of clarity of concept, and him having NO obvious central concept doesn't help that.  I think my wife's reaction to the character in Avengers EMH and the movie trailers is a pretty good microcosm of the issue.  She sees this guy called Ant-Man suddenly grow to giant size, and she turns to me and says, "wait, so he's Ant-Man, but he grows too?  That's stupid."  She can't get past the inconsistency.  I imagine that's part of the trouble.

Then just don't give him a codename. If he doesn't have a codename, then he doesn't have to live up to any expectations that might otherwise be set by him. Besides, what codename could you possibly give him that covers all of his abilities? (Of which he has many.) At one time or another, he's had:

*Shrinking Himself
*Enlarging Himself
*Shrinking Others
*Enlarging Others
*Speaking to/Controlling Ants
*Enhanced Jumping Ability
*Flight
*Firing Energy Blasts

I just can't think of one identity that would cover all of that. (I'd say 'The Atom', but that's been taken. )

[BentonGrey]

Haha, yeah, but it's hard to sell a superhero without a superhero name.  I think that presents the same PR problem, so to speak.  You're right, Kk, it is hard to find a name that encompasses everything, but if they could, I think that would help.  The Atom would really be about perfect, generic and evocative enough to work.  Too bad.

[Outcast]

For me, i guess with Hank Pym having so many identities and transformations.  He is essentially Dr. Pym. A scientist turned hero who has so many experiences that eventually lead him to become Dr. Pym. Of course, i imagine the people at Marvel will try to create more interesting stories for him. But given his past of changing/adopting so many identities, they would be tempted to exploit that and make him revisit those (by changing his identity once again). He would really become a very problematic man if they make him do this. Though i haven't really followed his adventures after he became Dr. Pym. I know he sorta became the Wasp though.

Personally, i liked his costume as Goliath (the blue and yellow one). As well as the classic Yellow Jacket costume. Though i only read a couple of issues of him as those two. So i never really knew how crazy he became as Yellow Jacket.

[kkhohoho]

Though i only read a couple of issues of him as those two. So i never really knew how crazy he became as Yellow Jacket.

Well, let's see here: He blasts a villain who wasn't even that villainous in the back, builds a giant robot to attack the Avengers which he will then defeat to -- as he sees it -- get back in the Avengers favor, and, oh yeah, he slaps his wife. (That last one wasn't even intended. Back then, Marvels' artists were trained to draw panels in the most dramatic way possible, and what was supposed to be a harmless push or a shove turned into a freaking slap. Go figure.)

[Outcast]

Though i only read a couple of issues of him as those two. So i never really knew how crazy he became as Yellow Jacket.

Well, let's see here: He blasts a villain who wasn't even that villainous in the back, builds a giant robot to attack the Avengers which he will then defeat to -- as he sees it -- get back in the Avengers favor, and, oh yeah, he slaps his wife. (That last one wasn't even intended. Back then, Marvels' artists were trained to draw panels in the most dramatic way possible, and what was supposed to be a harmless push or a shove turned into a freaking slap. Go figure.)

Oh...i see. Did a quick search and found something like that.

Spoiler

Well that only makes him human to me. Prone to mistakes and depression. Whether we like it or not. They did what they did. And that will be forever a part of who Hank Pym is. Unless they go for a Marvel new 52? We still have another alternative or universe. Ultimate Hank Pym, how he is portrayed there, i haven't the slightest clue yet.

*For me though, classic Yellow Jacket's costume still rocks.

[Tomato]

Ultimate Hank Pym tried to kill Janet with a can of bug spray. He is one of the shining examples from the Ultimate Universe of what happens when writers try to make things EXTREME.

[Outcast]

Ultimate Hank Pym tried to kill Janet with a can of bug spray. He is one of the shining examples from the Ultimate Universe of what happens when writers try to make things EXTREME.

Hmmm..yeah just read about that one now in the wikia.

I thought the Ultimate Universe was about making things more "realistic"? (I probably thought that because of some the modern design choices they did for the likes of Captain America and Hawkeye?) Not sure about the others though.

Anyway. Trying to kill one's wife is indeed extreme. But i think those things do happen. Given Hank Pym's history, i guess that makes him the most suitable guinea pig for them to try that out. Doesn't make it right. But other comics may have shown worse. At least from what i read, he is a hero now. As Yellow Jacket? and still continues to be a hero.

[kkhohoho]

Ultimate Hank Pym tried to kill Janet with a can of bug spray. He is one of the shining examples from the Ultimate Universe of what happens when writers try to make things EXTREME.

To be fair, Ultimate Captain America isn't much better.

[HarryTrotter]

Though i only read a couple of issues of him as those two. So i never really knew how crazy he became as Yellow Jacket.

Well, let's see here: He blasts a villain who wasn't even that villainous in the back, builds a giant robot to attack the Avengers which he will then defeat to -- as he sees it -- get back in the Avengers favor, and, oh yeah, he slaps his wife. (That last one wasn't even intended. Back then, Marvels' artists were trained to draw panels in the most dramatic way possible, and what was supposed to be a harmless push or a shove turned into a freaking slap. Go figure.)

Oh...i see. Did a quick search and found something like that.

Spoiler

Well that only makes him human to me. Prone to mistakes and depression. Whether we like it or not. They did what they did. And that will be forever a part of who Hank Pym is. Unless they go for a Marvel new 52? We still have another alternative or universe. Ultimate Hank Pym, how he is portrayed there, i haven't the slightest clue yet.

*For me though, classic Yellow Jacket's costume still rocks.

We already discussed this,EXTENSIVELY. And again,he isnt even the only one.
About Ultimates...oh,boy...Created by Mark Millar,flanderized by Jeph Loeb and apparently Joe Quesada demanded that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch be "together".
Thou,after Wasp justifies it as normal,you dont really feel bad for the bug spray. 
About Captains comment:
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/estandsfor7.jpg

[Tomato]

Yeaaaaah... I feel like we really need to curtail this portion of the discussion now. We're starting to get into some hot button areas here, and some of the commentary is becoming divisive. Ultimates was bad, m'kay, lets leave it there.

[HarryTrotter]

Before this escalates,Ultimate Wasp didnt deserve to be bug sprayed.But the justifying of incest was VERY squicky,btw.And counting Carly and Spider-man,FBI should really look up Joe Quesada.
Ehem,back to the point.We already talked about all this.None of the examples were justified.And Ultimate universe runs on flanderization,so ofc,the biggest flaw or life mistake becomes the whole character.Like Tony whos ALWAYS drunk.Heck,his ROBOT-duplicate is always drunk.

[JeyNyce]

Guys, I have a question:

While you guys all made valid points and stuff, What does this have to do with the poll posted on top??

To me, while I knew Hank as Ant-man, I like him better during the Giant-man stage.  I always though of Yellow Jacket as a jerk.  Even before the movie.

[kkhohoho]

Guys, I have a question:

While you guys all made valid points and stuff, What does this have to do with the poll posted on top??

Well, the poll's about Hank Pym, and we're talking about Hank Pym. Unless someone creates a general 'Discuss Hank Pym Thread', then this is as good a place as any talk about Hank Pym.

[JeyNyce]

Guys, I have a question:

While you guys all made valid points and stuff, What does this have to do with the poll posted on top??

Well, the poll's about Hank Pym, and we're talking about Hank Pym. Unless someone creates a general 'Discuss Hank Pym Thread', then this is as good a place as any talk about Hank Pym.

Cute, but I'm trying to draw attention away from the discussion Hank hitting Jan.  That was years ago and we had a deep discussion about this before.  I got an email earlier about someone feeling uncomfortable or the topic of Hank hitting Jan would start an argument.  So I'm trying to get into the Topic of Who is Hank Pym, not what he has done, but his personality during his time as certain heroes.

[kkhohoho]

Guys, I have a question:

While you guys all made valid points and stuff, What does this have to do with the poll posted on top??

Well, the poll's about Hank Pym, and we're talking about Hank Pym. Unless someone creates a general 'Discuss Hank Pym Thread', then this is as good a place as any talk about Hank Pym.

Cute, but I'm trying to draw attention away from the discussion Hank hitting Jan.  That was years ago and we had a deep discussion about this before.  I got an email earlier about someone feeling uncomfortable or the topic of Hank hitting Jan would start an argument.  So I'm trying to get into the Topic of Who is Hank Pym, not what he has done, but his personality during his time as certain heroes.

Oh. Sorry about that. I had no idea, honestly. But I think if someone is asking about what just what's Hank done, then I should at least let them know. Though I suppose I can do so via PM if doing so in the thread would make other people uncomfortable. (In other forums I'm at, we can talk about this sort of stuff freely, which I guess doesn't fly here.) Again, sorry; I had no idea.

[JeyNyce]

No problem.  Usually if a touchy subject is posted and it we (Mods & Admins) get an email stating that it made people feel uncomfortable, then it is reviewed by the Mods and Admin.

I want to move away from the subject because of something that was posted earlier that may have been taken out of context, that's all.  Please feel free to continue.  If anything comes up, I will let you guys know.

[Podmark]

One of the things I really like about Hank is how he overcame the mistakes of his past to become a respected hero again. The Busiek run and Avengers Academy showed this quite well, and I imagine the West Coast Dr. Pym era did as well. When he's at his best he comes off as a more mature character to me, someone who learned his weaknesses and overcame them.

Another thing I like is the varied costumes and identities he's had. It's never boring with Hank Pym. Whereas you take a hero like Captain America and he only has one real iconic look, Hank has 3-5 that everyone will recognise. You could dedicate a whole toy wave just for him.

Lastly, at Marvel I've always felt Pym is the main legacy point. There's so many characters that connect off his Pym Particles, so many people who have taken up the mantle of his discarded identities throughout time.

He's a neat character with an interesting history.

[HarryTrotter]

Also,on the earlier discussion of Ultimate U,Hank and Jan do get back together.It makes no sense,but nothing in Ultimates 2 does.And that one is considered good.

[laughing paradox]

I tend to always associate Hank Pym with his Goliath/Giant-Man identity, more than the others. I don't think his Yellowjacket persona lasted very long and I liked that it went to a super-villain. (The female member of the Masters of Evil.) He is also no longer Ant-Man to me, with two others taking that mantle.

However, my favorite iteration of the character was when he was simply Doctor Pym in the West Coast Avengers, using his pym particles in a totally different way. That's where he used his intellect in a fight, instead of bashing bad guys with his size, and that seems much truer to his character. It's a shame that didn't last longer. I think Hank is better as Avengers support and not on the front lines, unless for an emergency.

[HarryTrotter]

I would have to say I liked him best during the Mighty Avengers days as Wasp.And during Ant-man and Wasp.