Feedback? what of it....

[Previsionary]

I'll note here that I couldn't decide where this post needed to go, but UE's nagging was grating. He's such an evil little bugger.
-----------------

Ok, this is a general question to the whole community. It's no secret that quite a few creators here feel that feedback isn't always significant or given as it should be especially when they feel like they have to compete against the higher tiered members. So, I decided we should get some dialog going just to see what everyone REALLY wants. In my experience, honest feedback isn't always handled maturely and that can scare or intimidate people, but should you really be scared to speak your mind? Sometimes it's easier to just give simple answers rather than expanding and explaining your thoughts at the risk of possibly hurting someone's feelings. Sometimes the creator ignores it anyway and just goes with the general string of opinions. Well, here's your chance to actually speak out, creators and non-creators. What are your real opinions on giving feedback? And this goes outside of just FF/FR related items such as skins and such. So...who wants to start?

[the_ultimate_evil]

cross post from MM


I'll be honest, i do feel the we as a community have what i have seen called in the past, winners circle syndrome. a select few are only ever given the comments and feedback and the rest are left to be nothing but others or hold overs for something till the main crowd get around to it. it's a shame cause when i joined back at the old myfreedomforce days(yes i was there if your smart you'd know what my name was) along with the ezboard was yes there were artists who were better but everyone was welcomed and helped

but it is a two way street, we as artists put our work up online be it art, writing, digital anything, and we've basically put a giant bullseye on it. some will like it, some will hate it. you have to take both you just can't stick your fingers in your ears and scream lalalalala when you see something you don't want to hear, no one with that attitude ever got any better, if you don't want feedback or critique then don't ask for it.

now  anyone critiquing shouldn't aim to insult the other person with name calling, of vulgar insults, etc. now i try and give critique personally and try to do it in the nicest way i can, but i'm going to be honest and if you don't sugar coat it, but it's not meant as an attack


Some people just can't handle critiques, no matter what you say or do. Those people will never make it as successful commercial artists.

And then some people can handle whatever you throw at them. Those folks have the ability to grow quickly as an artist, and hopefully be successful at the thing they enjoy doing

[Courtnall6]

Honestly I'm too lazy to give honest feedback. Critiquing involves alot of typing and I'm just not into that! :P 

I usually check out every skin/mesh/art thread while I'm here. If I see something that really stands out I'll say so. Personally, I like positive and/or negative feedback on my stuff. Some I agree with and work on...others I ignore and think those people should be locked up in the crazy house for having such absurd suggestions.

When people ask me via PM for a critique I give them an honest one. If I were go into each thread and do that I would be here all day typing, typing, and then typing some more.

I got stuff to do you know! My soviet superman in City of Heroes can't get to level 50 on his own!

:D

[chuckles]

It's very hard for me to give "honest" feedback. Due to the fact that I'm no writer, and not even a passing artist. I'm very simplistic, if I like something I say so, or if I don't I'll say that too (in as nice a way as possible).

For me to critique someone's creation is like pulling my own teeth. For example...I began collecting comics for the art, not the story. All I knew was I liked certain artists, and disliked others. Don't ask me why. I skipped many issues of my favorite comics due to the artist.
(Carmine Infantino, and Gene Colan are artist that have never appealed to me.)

And as for writing, I have family members that have had stories published, but I didn't care for the stories. However they made it in print.
(Beats me how)
I have neither the talent nor drive to really get into writing, on the other hand I love to read.

As far as I'm concerned when it comes to giving my opinion on a story, or a piece of artistic design I seem to come across like a first grader.
I'm not putting myself down, just telling the truth. I'll hand out "Awesome", "Nice work", or "That's cool" I just give a superficial comment, but never an in depth bit of feedback.

For my part I can always try harder to explain the "why" of my opinion. What's funny about this whole thing is that in my family I'm the one that has to explain everything.

[laughing paradox]

This is an interesting thread.

As a new person to skinning, I appreciate any comment on what I do..good or bad. I don't think anyone would say anything from a malicious standpoint, so the negative comments wouldn't bug me. I'm not necessarily looking for approval either...mostly just critiques. I've had comments from some very helpful people that have actually improved my work, and for that, I am very grateful.

I'm going to keep posting what I do, whether anyone likes it or not. Of course I would love for everyone to enjoy what I've done, but that's okay if people don't like it. I mainly create it for myself. I think everyone should have that outlook when they are posting their things: Negative feedback does not equal a personal attack.

I've noticed, also, that I post more comments on other people's artwork now that I actually do skinning. I can appreciate that feedback, any feedback, is so beneficial; especially to us who are new to the game.

Of course there are going to be favorites on this board..there are people who's skill set is much higher than others. I take it as an inspiration, not a reason to be jealous or discouraged.

[AfghanAnt]

I like feedback both positive and negative. Oddly enough I posted how I feel in regards to skinning/skoping in djfredski's thread below this one.

[Podmark]

Most of my comments are in regards to costume accuracy and mesh choices and stuff like that, or just pointing out stuff I like. In all honesty my artistic knowledge is pretty limited so I'm uncomfortable with more indepth critiques. There's a few skinners that I feel are friends and I try to always comment in their threads. Everyone else is a bit hit-or-miss. If I see stuff that I like or have a specific comment I try to drop a post. I tend to dodge original creations unless I find them especially interesting in some way.
Also I'm far more likely to comment if I know the character.
Honestly I try to get through my day with as little typing as I can.


As for comments I'll take all. Funny thing is the comments I've always liked the best are comments about the character and whats been happening with them/how people feel about them etc.

[Carravaggio]

I appreciate any feedback, even if its as simple as 'cool stuff' or 'awesome'. I like suggestions and divergent ideas, even if I don't address each one, although I try.
I love it when people take characters I've made and come up with ideas for allies, enemies etc. for them (Dr Volt, I'm looking at you :P). Constructive criticism is great, and helps you push your skins further. Its the ideal. But if someone doesn't feel qualified to comment that way, then a thumbs up is just as good. I appreciate people liking what I do, its motivating, and we skinners need that (at least I do). I had an instructor once that said 'If you aren't exhibiting your work to the public, to the world, then all you're doing is (masturbating)'.
The logic being if the art/creative endeavour isn't for some grander purpose, then you are only doing it for self-gratification. Which is ok sometimes. In fact its ok often. But not all skinning is self gratification. It has a purpose, which is why we share it with the forum (and the lurkers. Get a username and join the party, dammit :P I see a good eight to a dozen 'guests' at any time.)

I found early on, making original characters doesn't get you a lot of responses. I know some skinners who are frightened away from creating originals or skinning altogether because originals don't 'sell'. They are also harder to comment on because there is no standard or preconceived notion of what they should look like to compare the skin to. It'd be nice if people gave a bit more attention to originals (other people's originals, that is, I get plenty of attention these days, and I thank the community for that). I get why mainstream is so popular, and hey, I have all eight Capt. America meshes by Ren on my HDD too. They are brilliant. I have a 30 ft tall Monarch by TB. You can't get that anywhere else in the world.
But originals is what this game was made for. So lets support them.

As for commenting on others work, I try to address the areas I think most new skins often lack (seams and highlights). I try to be honest and constructive, because thats what I aim to receive.
I guess its harder for new skinners, especially with originals, as their early efforts are likely to be more simplistic than we are used to (a spoiled bunch, we) and there is less to comment on.

Also Prev brings up a point that feedback isn't always handled well. Some people are happy with their current skill level, and others choose what they call a 'style' that they refuse to change a thing about. Feedback isn't so good for these people, if they are unwilling to change or try harder, all people can say is 'thats good' or 'thats bad'. If all they want is accolades, they should show it to their mum, I'm sure she will love it. Mums always do.
If you tell them its not so great, they get huffy as to their ears, you just insulted the validity of their 'style'.

I've thrown this offer up before in public, and I'll do so again; I'm no expert but if you want an in depth critique or your original character skin, PM it to me :)

In summary I appreciate all the feedback I get, and even I could afford to be more vocal in supporting the creative endeavours found on this board. After all they are taking the time to share it with us, so they aren't wholly doing it for themselves.

[Midnight]

It's been a long time since I've done any Freedom Force modification, but I do have bit of experience with giving and recieving feedback, so I'll throw my hat in the ring.

There are basically three types of feedback; Positive feedback, negative feedback and critical feedback

Positive feedback are the "Great job!" and "That's awesome!" posts. They're pretty good for motivation, especially in an environment like this, where we're getting no compensation for our work other than praise. Unfortunately, to me, this feedback feels disingenuous. "OMG that's so awesome!!!" doesn't take much effort to type, and really... who is that excited all the time? I understand it's value, but you will rarely see me give this type of feedback.

Negative feedback is, of course, trolling. Telling someone his work sucks isn't helpful. Period.

Critical feedback is where I personally thrive. There is nothing quite so satisfying as being able to tell another person exactly what you like and dislike about their work. It's also important to be able to give suggestions on how they might improve it. Really, it's not even important that this type of feedback is "right" or "wrong," what's important is making the creator think about their own work and how it can be improved.

On the other side of this coin, being able to take critical feedback and either explain your decisions or make changes is one of the most important things you can learn. Forget skinning, modelling, writing and all that garbage. Learning how to take critical feedback is an important life skill.

My thoughts on feedback and how it pertains to FR is dated, to say the least, but generally I see too many "I think that's awesome!" posts. These are empty calories. In the old days, New Power Inc. was a refuge for those who wanted Work In Progress feedback in order to produce a better finished product. To be quite honest, my best work was a product of NPI critiqing. The main problem was, it was just a dozen of us tossing ideas back and forth. We didn't have the breadth of knowledge (or bodies) that FR has.

For those who say they're "Not qualified to give feedback," 95% of us are not qualified for any of this. There's a handful of people with graphic design degrees, there's a few people who work in gaming, but really... we're all amateurs. As long as you have two eyes and some ideas, you're capable of giving feedback. It might not be "good" feedback, but that's not important. What's important is making the subject think about his own work critically.

On the other end, people shouldn't be sore about getting an honest critique. If I spend an hour reading one of Prem's stories and spend another hour writing a critique, it's not because I hate him. If I hated him, I would ignore him and spread rumors about him behind his back, not waste two hours of my life trying to make him a better writer.

To be honest, FR's feedback lacks in depth. I would rather present my work to a few close friends than post it here, and that's really sad.

[AfghanAnt]

Has anyone seen any negative feedback on this board?

[Carravaggio]

Not I.
But I think some people fear constructive criticism might be seen as negative, and therefore pull their punches.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

Has anyone seen any negative feedback on this board?

While I would not call it negative feedback (using Middy's definition), I can recall a few instances in which there have been posts containing critical feedback (again, using Middy's definition) couched in some arguably negative terms (e.g., "This piece doesn't pass muster, and I've seen you do much better in the past.").  Posts of this sort have, in the past, caused something of a stir; however, interestingly, the minor rows that ensued seemed to go on between the critics and the artists' fans and not between the critics and the artists themselves.  By and large, I would say that most (but not all) of our veteran artists welcome and accept criticism graciously.

[SLIGHTLY OT]

My thoughts on feedback and how it pertains to FR is dated, to say the least, but generally I see too many "I think that's awesome!" posts. These are empty calories. In the old days, New Power Inc. was a refuge for those who wanted Work In Progress feedback in order to produce a better finished product. To be quite honest, my best work was a product of NPI critiqing. The main problem was, it was just a dozen of us tossing ideas back and forth. We didn't have the breadth of knowledge (or bodies) that FR has.

To be honest, FR's feedback lacks in depth. I would rather present my work to a few close friends than post it here, and that's really sad.

At one time, I had hoped that one of MeshMatters' functions would be to attempt to serve as at least a pale-shadow surrogate for NPI (which can never be replaced except by its own renaissance), but, alas, the "bodies" are still in short supply.
[/SLIGHTLY OT]

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[tommyboy]

Square peg, round hole.
This site, and this community, is not, and never has been, an artistic improvement and criticism workshop.
It's a loose collection of people interested in superheroes and videogames.
There are lots of sites by and for artists and writers, if you want 'serious', no punches pulled appraisal, post stuff there.
Observing that the level of artistic critique here is somehow lacking is about as useful as observing that we don't discuss how to rebuild car engines, or how to minimize taxes paid. Because it's not that sort of site, and not that sort of community, and that is not any sort of failure on the part of the community or the site.
Yes, some of the posters here are artists, or writers, or car mechanics or tax accountants. But unless any of those things specifically apply to superhero comics or FF/FFv3R content, they aren't likely to be discussed in much depth.
I post what I make here so that the community can see it, and download and play with it if they want to. Not to get advice on how to improve, (though that, like praise, is an added bonus if and when it happens).
If I'm 'serious' about becoming a better artist, I can do that in a number of ways; I can keep practicing my art, I can take a course or lessons, I can join a discussion forum dedicated to art of the kind I try to do.
What is unlikely to further my Artistic Progression is to berate a community who never said they were going to make me as good as Renegade or Grenadier for not giving me enough in-depth technical criticism. If people just want to post 'that is great', I have no problem with that. If they want to offer in-depth constructive criticism, I have no problem with that, either. But I know that the vast majority of people here didn't sign up to Improve Me As An Artist.
It's strictly my responsibility to do that, nobody else's.
The people who want lots of advice and criticism are basically barking up the wrong tree here, in my opinion. Sites like MeshMatters, or NPI were set up specifically to provide that type of forum. FR, so far as I'm aware, wasn't.
Maybe there could, and should, be a subforum for more in-depth discussion. But if people are unwilling or unable to post in the existing forums, I doubt a new subforum would change that much.
But I could be wrong, again.

And as for any 'winners circle' phenomena, firstly I think that by and large any putative 'winners' are likely to be there on merit. Popular because consistently good. Yes, it's often arbitrary and unfair that comment and praise are not sprinkled evenly on all contributors. But you know what? It's not a perfect, fair world. People are just humans, and are subject to sociological and psychological pressures that lead to that type of unfairness. You cannot legislate for it, or for any length of time, change it.
Is there a 'caste system' of sorts here? Probably, yes. These things emerge whenever humans group together, as far as I can see. You'll find exactly the same phenomena at many other sites, or groupings of people.
Why do people like musician A better than musician B, who is technically as proficient? They just do. Popularity is bestowed almost randomly by a public who couldn't tell you why they do it. You can't really blame the popular, or the unpopular, or the public who somehow decide who is who. It is what it is, we are what we are. And recent newcomers, like Marcelo, prove the community is quite willing to heap praise on someone outside of the 'chosen few'. Nothing is written in stone.

[AfghanAnt]

... I know that the vast majority of people here didn't sign up to Improve Me As An Artist.
It's strictly my responsibility to do that, nobody else's.

IAWTC.  I realized a long time ago if I need feedback on a skin I'll just pm a few people I know have a good critical eye. Hell, even I ping C6 about mapping issues because he is good at it.

I don't know about the motivation of other skinners, meshers, modders here but I do the work I do because I care about a character which is why even though someone else has skinned something (possibly better) I will too. It's not about upstaging or creating a fan-base. It is about just make stuff I love. In fact a majority of my skins are labors of love (which is why you will see 6 different version releases in less than a year...Coipel's Thor...). But I am also aware that if someone else's has skinned that character I probably won't do it unless I'm bringing something new and different to the table. I've been very vocal with the fact that when I skin something I'm not thinking about others. I'm thinking about what I want.

As far as originals, can people really comment on design elements for your original character? They can comment on techinque and craftsmanship of the skin but the design seems like something that should be left up to the artist. I'm not saying you can't make comments for the design (boy did I get a few Black Afghan Ant's antenna is odd/horn or Grase's Ironman elements) but honestly I had the same thoughts when I was skinning them and I realized either I wanted something that did look odd and I don't see a problem with being using outside design elements. Honestly when it comes to designing my originals I think to myself what hasn't everyone seen or how can I get the look I want but better.

Lighten up it's just skinning.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

Lighten up it's just skinning.

Are you insinuating that my (non-existent) skins are too dark?!  Right, sirrah!  Let's take this outside!

:P

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[AfghanAnt]

 :P @ ow_tiobe_sb

[Podmark]

I don't know about the motivation of other skinners, meshers, modders here but I do the work I do because I care about a character which is why even though someone else has skinned something (possibly better) I will too. It's not about upstaging or creating a fan-base. It is about just make stuff I love. In fact a majority of my skins are labors of love (which is why you will see 6 different version releases in less than a year...Coipel's Thor...). But I am also aware that if someone else's has skinned that character I probably won't do it unless I'm bringing something new and different to the table. I've been very vocal with the fact that when I skin something I'm not thinking about others. I'm thinking about what I want.

I think the same way when I skin.

[Previsionary]

I guess I should actually chime in here since I did create the thread. I'm glad so many of you responded positively and gave us, the community, things to think about. I have a few thoughts to note, so I will do so now.

FEEDBACK:

As of lately, I'm very passive in most of my feedback and I regressed to my "few words and maybe a simple critique/comment" style of posting when I do actually post on a skin or mesh (it's very rare). In fact, since I don't play FFVTTR, don't fx, mod, skin, hex, or even play with max anymore, I don't really go out of my way to comment on anything related to the game. I choose to help those that may need help in my quirky (and partially sarcastic) style. However, if I'm asked, I will say more and actually expand on it (see: UE, Syn, Beyonder). I'm just so far out of those genres that I just don't comment on them anymore. Though, I will note that the skinners still around and upcoming are really raising the scales, so congrats to all of you for keeping the game fresh for those that play.

However, one part of this forum is horribly mistreated unless it's accompanied by a skin or mesh and that is the fanfiction forums. I'm shocked at how lifeless that forum is now compared to the golden days of FR when a story seemed to be posted everyday. There're some great stories going on there and it's pretty discouraging that no one here seems to visit and encourage those folks because they're not producing visuals/play things. So, to help with that, I *try* to make comments on every piece of writing I read because it's what I would want from others. Also, since I'm reading something someone has put a lot of work in, my responses are going to at least SHOW I took a bit of time to think about their work and respond effectively. You might not like what I say, but at least you can be assured that your work made me think about something, no?

But yes, when I do critique something, I want it to appear that I took the time to actually think about what I liked or disliked rather than just saying something just to say it.

RECEIVING FEEDBACK:

Anyone that knows me knows that I looooove feedback. If I don't think I'm getting enough information back from the person giving me said feedback, I'll make sure to question them and get more of their opinion. However, I have found that most people don't feel qualified enough to give feedback or set up their own mental blocks to justify not being able to express their thoughts effectively. I don't agree with that, but I can't do anything about that. But, in the long run, I enjoy any piece of feedback anyone throws my way (including negative) just because you took the time out to give it. I may not always agree with it, and I'll attempt to explain why I don't in a good manner, but I'll always appreciate it and I usually make some sort of compromise anyway if I believe you've made a good point.

It's always a good idea to have that dialog going whether you plan on improving or not. People should feel like the creator is open enough to all types of opinions and won't shun them off just because something is said that they don't like. Most of the artist here got better because of "feedback" and active progression towards something better. I can pretty much assure you that if they didn't get feedback from someone, they probably wouldn't be as far along as they are now. They don't have to get it from here and that wasn't the reasoning behind this thread. It's an open discussion on feedback in general, let's keep that in mind.

BUT, and it's a big but (ha), I don't really depend on FR for indepth criticism much these days as it doesn't really exist here anymore outside of the skins forum and the old major opinion givers aren't around as much. NPI was a great idea, so it's too bad that place didn't hold up and MM didn't catch on like I hoped it would. Also, I don't seem to find myself able to take some posts seriously after a time just because if I notice the poster passes out "awesomes (w/ added !!!!!!!!!! for emphasis)" for three pages, I begin to question their sincerity. Though, it's always nice to know that some skins and mods have found their way around the net where people say their thoughts unrestrained because they probably don't know anyone here, heh.
------------------------

So to summarize: I like getting feedback. I find it's important to have the opinion of the people that read or use your stuff so you know what works, what doesn't, and how to improve it (if you so choose). If I don't think I have enough info from your initial feedback, I will probe your mind just to get a better position on your thoughts. I rarely give feedback outside of "fiction" because I don't really deal with FF anymore. And finally, I think some of you need to cruise by the "fanfic" thread more often and broaden your horizons. And I just want to note for everyone that we should try to spread the love a little bit better or we run the chance of losing some awesome creators who feel like they aren't being noticed.

NOTE: I would also like more of the "non playable content" providers to chime in so we get more rounded responses...if that's not too much to ask for. ^^

[UnkoMan]

I can't believe I read the whole thread. I barely even come to this forum. On this topic, though, I feel an urge to post.

Stuff like the fanfiction forum being overlooked. I think it's very true. Personally, I never go there. I've always felt uncomfortable and awkward reading fanfiction, or even amature stories, especially on a forum of some sort. I don't want to rip anybody apart, but I always feel this urge to go through their entire thing and take out my red pen. Granted, I'm a bit of a grammar nazi when it comes to actual writings. At the same time, I don't want to hurt other people's feelings.

It's the same way for skins. On the one hand, I do feel comfortable giving people tips, since I have some proficiency in this area, but I don't want to make anybody feel like a turd. Usually I just pick one or two points that could be improved upon and then over-explain how they could correct it. With critiques I really just want to help people to get better at it. That's what I honestly wish more people did. When I was just begining, I was awful. All my skins were terrible and I had no idea how to make things work. Eventually I discovered, but I could have done it so much sooner if somebody explained things like seams or told me how I should critically check where I put shadows. Things like that.

As to not feeling qualified, I'll admit that I get that a lot. I can't find anything to critique about AA's skins, so I end up just posting "sweet" comments, since... well... I love them. I used to be a lot worse for this, even, but since I have slowly improved I've felt more confident about giving other's advice. In fact, I'll sometimes even just point them to an example in one of the skins I've done. I think really looking hard at other people's skins and trying to figure out how they did things is the biggest part of learning to skin. That can, obviously, be applied to anything, really.

Oh, another thing! I tend to gravitate more towards obscure and original characters. I will reply to them more than to something really mainstream. Why? Well, I've seen mainstream. A lot. I can't get too excited about a new version of Wolverine or something (unless it's in brand new mesh form by Ren). But give me something I haven't seen and I will think it is rad. Show me a personal design, and I will love it. And if somebody has, say, a design they are struggling with... that's my favourite. I love to colab on designs, or to get improvements.

And, I guess I will talk about my own skins. I usually get a few "looking nice" posts. Not a ton, but enough that I usually feel people dig my stuff. This is good because it encourages me (even though I hardly do anything anymore). At the same time, I find myself wishing I could get a bit more. I'm fine with not getting an indepth run down, but I wouldn't mind folks pointing out little mistakes I may have missed or giving me tips on things they think I could improve. I don't want to intrude and say "You people need to tell me what things I can fix," but I would like to get some of that. I noticed quite a few people say they PM others if they want that sort of thing, but I don't know if I would be comfortable with that. I wouldn't want to be pushy or anything.

Maybe that's the problem, ultimately. We are just too polite to be a decent critique site. And really, is that so wrong? But, yes, I would enjoy both giving and receiving it more.

[Ares_God_of_War]

I'm one of those that has absolutely no artistic experience or background what so ever. My feedback would probably come more in the "empty Calorie" type feedback since I cant really give any sort of opinion on style or come close to telling any of you how to improve on what you have made. I can pretty much just tell you that I like or dislike a peice and why I like or dislike it but I cant really give you anything more than that and since my dislike would not come with anything to positively improve the peice I just stick with the like :)

[Shazam]

I hardly ever come here anymore since I have other pursuits.
Heres what I have found in my time here. There are some folk that get oodles of feedback, then there are those that get virtually none.

I put myself in the latter.
When someone turns up as a newbie and shows off a really excellent skin, they get noticed. If on the other hand they produce something average, they get very little feedback.
I have made some content for the game in my time.
I have made contributions to FFX and I have made a few skins.
Very few people even know what I did for FFX, even though I appear in the credits.
When I started skinning, I got very little feedback, I got some, but not much. I must admit I got annoyed when I got so little feedback, I wasn't looking for people to say "Wow your skins are great!" all I wanted was for people to give critique to help me become a better skinner.
Then I decided to change my identity. I changed my name to Voltimax and started a thread showing some new skins. Well suddenly lot's of people were posting in my thread and I was getting lot's of feedback, but not the feedback I was after.

To date I have made a small mod, it still sits on my hard drive and it will continue to stay there. I wanted to create something for the community that had given so much to me, but no one seemed that bothered, so I too lost interest. I then started to lose interest in all things FF and moved on.

Shame really, all I was after was to be nurtured and maybe for some of the bigger names here to point me in the right direction, but I'm not bitter, I've had a good time here  :D

Of course Prem/Prev knows how I feel about this as I've been in his ear many a time  :P

Thanks for starting this thread, nice to get it off my chest after all this time.

[Cyber Burn]

   First off, let me just say that I have no artistic skill whatsoever. When I first got into FF, it was because FLASH_22798 was playing the game and encouraged me to try it out. Then when I saw him skinning and skoping, I was just blown away at how cool it was that you could put something that you had made into a pc game. What little I do know about skinning and skoping, I learned from him. My reason for trying to skin and skope is that I just want to see something that I actually worked on to be in a game. It's just the coolest thing for me.
   That said, I'll post a pic of something I did every now and again, either because I'm proud of what I accomplished, or because I want help improving it on a conceptual level. I know I can't put to much detail in the skins I make because my hands shake quite a bit because of medications that I am on. So if no one responds, then so be it. No harm, no foul. No one here is being paid to guide me along, and I don't expect it.
   In regards to posting in other people's threads... I'm not really the best qualified to critique someone else's work. But if I see something I really like, then I try to make a point of letting that person know. If something doesn't really grab me,for whatever reason, I keep my mouth shut, because I don't want something I said to come out wrong. I don't want to offend someone because I couldn't verbalize my thoughts correctly.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I should also point out that their are a further two types of feedback, artistic and technical. I've dealt mostly with the later, not being an artistic type.  Unfortunately, people seem rather shy and cautious sometimes about giving technical feedback, when that is only detrimental to the final product, which turned out to be quite a problem in developing Liberty Bay.  Why you do have to worry about feelings and such for artistic feedback, it is a big mistake to do so when it comes to technical feedback.  Believe me, the people working on the product want to get rid of the problems, they just don't know what they are.  This applies to bugs, ballancing issues, glitches, and even artist elements which don't work with the whole.  Being shy on such things just causes problems for the creators.

[Renegade]

Some people simply can't handle criticism well, constructive or otherwise. Some can. Not being able to tell who can and who can't means that it's usually better to just not offer criticisms most of the time with people I don't know personally (and many I do). Even well meaning words can be misunderstood easily and cause problems where none existed before. Especially when the criticisms are offered up in a public forum.

Unless someone asks me for my honest opinion in a PM, I find it better to offer up praise only when I think the work really warrants it, and to bite my tongue when it doesn't.

[Mr. Hamrick]

Alright, I guess I can chime in here. 

FEEDBACK
I will occasionally peruse the Artist area and comment on if I see something I like.  There are some people here who I genuinely like the art work of and some who I am indifferent to one way or another.  However, I can't say there is any one person here who I do not like the work of.  However, I don't really comment for the sake of commenting all that often.  With regards to the fiction board, a lot of the stuff posted here are done for the fiction challenges and despite never seeming to be able to get an entry in on time (curse you real life), I try to manage to read or at least skim the entries.  There are not a lot of other entries there that catch my eye all that often.

RECEIVING FEEDBACK
The only things I have ever attempted to post here recently for feedback were my website and the videos on my website.  I received minimal to know feedback on them.  As a matter of fact, every time I have tried to post a link to a video I have done, it has gone largely ignored.  This might have something to do with why I do not comment on other people's work as well.  This could also be a reason why I have not posted any script stuff up.  (That and because I am picky about posting script stuff because of legal reasons and because said scripts are not comic book/super hero related.)

[Lunarman]

I expect HQ would have some worthy words on this topic if he were here.

On feedback in general. I think it is a good idea, the worst thing is when you post a skin and get no replies at all. A post of negative or positive feedback is great to see (at least it shows people have looked at your skin).

I'd say all feedback here is good feedback. I've never seen anyone walk into a thread and say "Your art is rubbish. Period".
Negative or critical feedback is among the most helpful to help improve your skills in whatever area, and to produce a polished finished product.

I think the reason for most people not flooding threads with thoughts or feedback is due to laziness, Me included. Each morning I check e-mails and forums for about 90mins, and believe me. Writing a feedback post could add 10min to that time. Also, my position as a skinning/artist are both very part time in the sense I rarely do either and therefore am not in a good position to advise skinners/artists who make much higher quality stuff than me.

[Vertex]

This was and still is a sore point for me.

FEEDBACK!!!

Nothing was ever so annoying as showing somebody or the forum as a whole a mesh and see "great work! good job! perfect!" and asking no no please give suggestions, what could be better, what does it need to you? .. and getting NOTHING!
  Worst of all was making something and hearing how good it was and then seeing peeps use something else for the same character and then asking.. well ummmm you said mine was so great.. why not use mine?? Then and only then would I finally find out what the person really felt about the mesh I made.
  Honestly I would not only encourage (which I tried all along to do) but LOVE constructive feedback on meshes. Nothing is more frustrating to me at any rate to see someone praise something I've made and then make a point of not using it.. actions speak louder than words peeps and while this is NOT a rant of "why don't you use my stuff" it is my attempt to say "if you want my stuff to more like you want to use SAY SO in how you respond to it when i post previews and such".

  The squeaky wheel gets the grease ladies and gents and you will NEVER hurt my feelings by honestly saying what you think of something I've done. Nothing irritates me more than posting a preview and seeing GREAT JOB!!! and not one critique in the whole bunch when I KNOW not everybody is happy with what they see.