Freedom Force Civil War: How would it go down?

[BaronGrackle]

What do you believe would happen if a Civil War (similar to the Marvel Civil War--hero versus hero) were to occur in the Freedom Force universe? Which sides do you believe the different heroes (and villains) would take?

I've thought on this before, and I was wondering what everyone's opinion here was. This is how I picture it... I've only read summaries of the Civil War series, so you'll have to correct me if I miss an obvious correlation from them in my thoughts:

(The following is long. Those who haven't played :ffvstr: will be spoiled.)
[spoiler]
No one remembers exactly what happened during the so-called "Entropy Incident". From what most people can tell, it did not have any lasting effects--at least there did not seem to be any property destruction or loss of life. All that anybody knew was that something very significant occurred. A lot of "significant" events had occurred since super-powered humans began appearing in Patriot City. Many of these events (for example, the infamous transportation of Patriot City through time to the dinosaur ages) had almost resulted in the destruction of the thriving metropolis.

And, though the heroic "Freedom Force" had gained prestige by averting these catastrophes, not even superheroes were perfect. Not every building had been saved; not every civilian survived. Plus, in most citizens' minds, there was something vaguely suspicious about how all of these catastrophes began happening about the same time that Freedom Force and the other superheroes had gained their powers.

The answer, of course, was this "Energy X". It was an alien material dramatically warping the genetic makeup of both model citizens and dastardly fiends. A survey revealed that nearly half of criminals in Patriot City prisons had at least a partial exposure to Energy X. There was only one way to ease the public mind: anyone who had been exposed to Energy X should be forced to identify themselves so that they could be studied, properly trained, and held accountable for their actions. Thus began the "Act for the Registration and Documentation of Humans Exposed to Energy X", colloquially known as the Superhuman Registration Act.

Anti-Registration Heroes

• Minuteman: Of course. The Captain America clone has to take Captain America's role. I actually sort of have trouble seeing Minuteman fight against the police and the U.S. government. In the original Freedom Force, he turned himself in when a doppleganger was committing crimes in his name. But, without Minuteman leading the "resistance", it just wouldn't be interesting.


• Mentor: Has Mentor even obtained U.S. citizenship yet? Not a legal resident, either? AND he hasn't registered his superpowers? "But, your honor, these Energy X capabilities are a staple of my planetary culture. Of course I have them. No, your honor, the title "Mentor" was not created for the purpose of hiding a "secret identity". My actual name is unpronounceable by any of the tongues on your planet. Pardon? No, I am not a terrorist. I came to this country to save your nation... nay, your planet... nay, the stream of reality as we know it... from certain doom!" Yeah, right. Tell your story walking, fathead.


• El Diablo: C'mon, is this really so hard to figure out? Even with the personality aside, Ricardo's one of the ones with a past that he doesn't want to make public.


• Man-Bot: Yeah. Man-Bot's probably still feeling an agonizing pang of loss that he cannot even remember or explain. I'm sure he's in just the right mood to deal with the government.


• Eve: Nature does not bow before the whims of mankind. Punk.


• Blackbird: A former cat burglar, Blackbird would likely also see the value of not tying people to identities they are trying to escape.


• Green Genie: 'Cause it's a lotta fun to stick it to the man. And, quite possibly, no reason other than that.
• The Bard: Just about every Shakespearean protagonist is an underdog. The only ones who aren't underdogs are the wicked kings. And the Bard wouldn't be able to lead the pro-registration heroes, so he couldn't be the wicked king. So here he is, trying to drown out Minuteman's rallying pep talk with a perfect recitation of the St. Crispen's Day speech. He ponders for days to discern exactly what his tragic flaw is and how it will lead to the sacrifice of his life for the good of the cause. Except... he'll never get the chance to sacrifice his life. It just won't work; any sacrifice he'd try to make would be fake, forced, part of the stage. And that is his tragedy.
• Tombstone: Heh. Heh heh. Ha ha ha. HA HA HA HAHAHAHA OOHHH my goodness. Oh my goodness. "You wish to know who I really am? I am the man whose wife you could not protect inside her own home. I am the man whom your government murdered, while an unjust killer continued to roam free. I am the man who has now returned... to place judgment on you."

Pro-Registration Heroes

• Law and Order: Other than Man-Bot's suit, the Freedom Force world does not have a Tony Stark. Nor does it have a Reed Richards (unless it was that brother who got exploded-up in Man-Bot's origin story). In my imagining of a civil war, I can most vividly picture Law and Order as the forefront and public image of the pro-government faction. One is a former judge's assistant, and the other is a police officer. They gained their powers because Sarah put her life on the line to be a public witness, and Samson put his life on the line to protect her. If the government had taken a more active responsibility in law enforcement, neither of them would have been in danger on that night. (Sidenote: It WOULD be entertaining if Law and Order chose different sides!)


• Man O' War: What is Man O' War's motivation in life? Once you get past those hard kraken scales to his soft, oyster-like heart of hearts? He wants to protect the most vulnerable people in life; namely, the children. This Superhero Registration Act is as much for the younger, less experienced members of his team as it is for the ordinary citizens of Patriot City. Man O' War has his own type of human compassion; I believe the most accurate phrase is "tough love".


• Liberty Lad: Okay, hear me out. Nick started out as a Freedom Force fanboy, but it didn't take him long at all to try to "prove" he was hero enough to stand with Minuteman and the rest. Maybe he feels like they've held him back before? Anyway, I think this would be a time for Nick to jump at the chance to appear more patriotic than Minuteman. Plus, he seems the type that would enjoy the publicity of unmasking on television. He'd also get a sense of pride from all the fun gadget-grenade technology he could share with the U.S. government. It's his chance to go "Nightwing" or "Winter Soldier". In fact, it's almost a shame that "Winter Soldier" is already taken, since it would fit an American Revolution-style pro-U.S. government character better than a Soviet assassin. Ah well. Out of every hero that would support Superhero Registration, I'd picture Liberty Lad as having the most selfish/evilish reasons.


• Bullet: I actually don't know with Bullet. He was the free-wheeling type of U.S. pilot, and he has disobeyed Mentor on important things before, but I think there's a certain loyalty in him that just couldn't bring him to oppose his government without a VERY good reason. I don't think public identities and registration would be a good enough reason for him. I see him as one of the most reluctant in this type of fight, trying to hold his own team back from going too far. And, if any of the characters were to be sacrificed in this type of story, I think Bullet would be the most interesting/shocking choice. This is ALL personal opinion, if you haven't noticed by now.  :D
• Microwave: Microwave is a machine. Despite Mentor's knowledge, I think the government would come up with ways to have their programming dominate his functions. In fact, they'd probably manage to make a small army of Microwaves. Maybe the Anti-Registration faction would have the original Microwave still.
• Supercollider: Hey. Maybe he IS a government project. If he isn't, then maybe the government would come up with a way to control him by dominating his weak mind.

Other heroes

• The Ant: Maybe it's that they made the Ant's personality so much like Spider-man's that it's hard for me to tell the difference, or maybe it's just because I like Spider-man, but I can't imagine the Ant acting much different than ol' Spidey, just as Minuteman is bound to Captain America's decisions. So, I'd imagine that the Ant would initially side with the pro-registration faction, get fired from the Daily Bugle, and eventually recant and join the resistance. Imagine a good nimbly, grenade-filled fight between Ant and Liberty Lad, as LL discovers Ant as he tries to defect. LL starts to gain the upperhand until Ant burrows away and escapes. Yeah.


• Iron Ox: The United States is crazy right now. Why can't Iron Ox pull a Ben Grimm and take a trip to, say, England?


• Sea Urchin: In my mind, Sea Urchin would have a lot to say to Man O' War about "wigging out" on their best friends. And, in my mind, Man O' War would listen attentively, he would realize she was sincere, and he would promptly lock her away in a maximum security facility for her own good. She would have to be rescued at some point or break out on her own.


• Quetzalcoatl: I just can't imagine an Aztec mythological god getting too concerned about this (the same applies to Pan), even if he is trapped in a 14-year-old boy's body. Well, not his body... his living space. But who knows. Maybe Liberty Lad would design a clone of Quetzal. I don't think they'd need it, though, with Supercollider around.

Villains

• Mr. Mechanical: Perhaps, remembering Mechanical's wave of robotic terror from before, the government would see fit to grant him a full pardon in exchange for his assistance in enforcing this act. All they'd need to do is stroke Mechanical's ego just a little, and he'd be glad to give up a life of crime for prominence. He seems better at building death machines than skyscrapers, anyway. Perhaps, if he were to gain access to the Microwave designs, he could give the government a powerful new army. (Side note: was Mr. Mechanical even exposed to Energy X? Or is he just the regular sort of madman?)


• Shadow and Deja Vu: I can see the government controlling and sending out villains like these two ala the Marvel Civil War. Just offer Shadow the finest cosmetic surgery, and give Deja the chance to shoot a ray gun at heroes. The government can get a Microwave army AND a Deja army if they play their cards right.


• Pinstripe: Pinstripe is probably out of jail and on the streets, considering his connections in organized crime. Out of mutual interest and desperation, Pinstripe and the Anti-Registration heroes would likely have to reach a temporary understanding with each other against the government forces.


• Nuclear Winter: Rotting (melting?) in jail. The guy tried to nuke the capital of his own country. I don't think any side would trust that they could control and use him. If they did, they'd just be asking for an atomic weapon to be stolen for the third time.

[/spoiler]

[vamp]

This is actually a really interesting idea but I think i would have a few heroes switched around. Here is my list (anything i agree with will not be shown)

[spoiler]Pro-Registration:

• Minute-Man: He just can't bear to be at odds with his own government. I see Captain america more as the defender of Democracy, while Minute-Man is just the peace-keeper. Kinda of a role reversal, but makes it a bit more interesting for me.
• El Diablo: He is just too attracted to the limelight. Being unmasked would make it so much easier for him to show off and become an insta-celebrity. (Kinda of like Johnny Storm likes to showoff)

Anti-Registration:

• Liberty Lad: The Way I see it is that Liberty Lad is younger so he is more likely to question the government. He would see that it isn't always black in white, and sometimes the government is wrong.
• Micro-Wave: "Anyone who betrays my friends, is my enemy" I Don't see him taking to kindly to a govenrment who doesn't own him, even though he has noting to do with energy X. Alternatively, this may be the way his future came to exist. Maybe the government started mass producing robots (like sentinels), and the eventually took over. He now wants to stop that from happening even if it means he wont exist.

Other:

• Law/Order: I think the two would have conflicting interest, making it an internal struggle for power (like bruce banner and the hulk). Order would be believe that this was the way it should be that the need to regrister, but Law(despite her namesake) would not want more innocent people to be treated like criminals by the very government that said the are all equal. So the two would always be battling for dominance.

[/spoiler]

[BaronGrackle]

This is actually a really interesting idea but I think i would have a few heroes switched around. Here is my list (anything i agree with will not be shown)

[spoiler]Well, a strong part of me agrees with your Minuteman reversal. He did turn himself in to the police after not committing any crimes, and he has billboards all around Patriot City telling people to "Support the Men in Blue!" It would be interesting to see Minuteman and Mentor at conflict with each other!

I also find it interesting that, while we're differing on our interpretations of Liberty Lad's reactions/motivation, we both have the "sidekick" on the opposite side of the Minuteman. Perhaps this is meant to be one of the series' climactic fights. Remember that LL was able to take on the Minuteman doppelganger in the first Freedom Force; I'm sure a part of him hasn't forgotten.  :thumbup:

With Microwave, I think I'm starting to lean toward copies of him on both sides.

Though I enjoy my version of Law and Order spearheading support for the government, it actually might be more entertaining of a comic book/video game if they disagree. Can you imagine? How would they function?! For your version, maybe they'd come to an internal truce where they purposely stay neutral to avoid destroying themselves. And, there's a slight chance that one of them would betray the other to further his/her faction. In your version, if a hero were to be sacrificed (or something else equally akin to the sacrifices of the first two games), I think it would involve a fundamental change to what Law and Order are as an entity.[/spoiler]

[vamp]

This is actually a fun little idea. I have been thinking about battles and such all day because of you :P. I am even tempted to redraw a Civil War Cover with Freedom force Characters instead. I your ideas had my mind bouncing with excitement, then when mine came along it got worst.

I have a few questions though:

Would this have happened in the same era as say  :ffvstr: or maybe in more modern times. I Think that could change alot in Liberty Lad's character.

Also, if this did happen in the more recent future, would Sea urchin have married El Diablo by now? That could a definitive issue in deciding which side she will be on.

[BaronGrackle]

ANYONE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE SPOILED SHOULD JUST STOP READING THIS THREAD NOW.  :P

This is actually a fun little idea. I have been thinking about battles and such all day because of you :P. I am even tempted to redraw a Civil War Cover with Freedom force Characters instead. I your ideas had my mind bouncing with excitement, then when mine came along it got worst.

I have a few questions though:

Would this have happened in the same era as say  :ffvstr: or maybe in more modern times. I Think that could change alot in Liberty Lad's character.

Also, if this did happen in the more recent future, would Sea urchin have married El Diablo by now? That could a definitive issue in deciding which side she will be on.

See, the question about which era this would happen is one of the items that I wanted to hear different people's opinions on. I started thinking about this before I even finished the second game, so Alchemiss had an important role on the Anti-Registration side before she, umm, suddenly ceased to exist. Alternatively, it could be slightly different from standard Freedom Force continuity (as Marvel does periodically when it makes different versions of their characters), to the point that major characters are changed. Man-Bot and Alchemiss could co-exist; Mr. Mechanical could have never been a criminal; some of the heroes could be important civilians who never gained powers; etc.

I personally think it would need to happen a couple of years after the second game. Give Liberty Lad and Sea Urchin a few years to grow up--and to strengthen their powers. Regardless of which way Minuteman/Liberty Lad go, it'll help to have the Lad as a late teen / borderline adult. Possibly with a more "grown up" name, though I can't think of any (as much as I initially liked the name "Winter Soldier" because of Thomas Paine, the connotations in this universe would have been WAY too negative for anyone to have that sort of name who wasn't one of Nuclear Winter's lackeys). I've been trying to think of some phrase or colloquialism either from the American Revolution or the American Civil War, but none comes to mind.

With Sea Urchin, she and Diablo weren't really close to fulfilling Tombstone's prophecy when the last game ended. I'd picture that as happening after this event, or possibly in relation to it. If Diablo is Anti-Registration, he could help her escape. If he is Pro-Registration, he could do something equally heroic (save Man O' War's life?) that would convince Sea Urchin--very reluctantly--that the act isn't so bad. Then the naval dynamic duo could be reunited.

If any artwork comes of this, it would definately need to be posted here! I notice that neither of us (or anyone else) has weighed in on which side we think would triumph.

[The Hitman]

Great thread, Grackle! I've been racking my brain about this all day!

[spoiler]
I think Minute- Man would be Pro- Reg for reasons stated above.

El Diablo would, in my mind, be more of the Spider- Man of the story, first on Pro- Reg for, in this case, fame until he sees how the Anit- Reg folks were being treated.

Mentor would be Anti- Reg, for the standard "Energy X is no reason the classify humans" thing.

Man- Bot would be Pro- Reg, because of the accidental death of his brother, and the idea of regrestering would prevent similar accidents.

I think Order would be Anti-, while Law would be Pro-. I dunno, just a feeling.

The Ant would be Anti-, he'd see the government like the bullies that used to pick on him.

Eve would be Anti-. Why, I don't know, but I think she would be.

Bullet = Pro-, if for nothing else for his military background.

Liberty Lad (or, if in the future, just Liberty?) would be Anti- for that special "Hero vs. Sidekick" fight.

The original Microwave might be Anti-, but I agree Mr. Mechanical would be Pro-, and probably make mindless drones of him to pad their numbers.

I think Pinstripe and Nuclear Winter would be Anti- fighting on their own, until reluctantly joining with the heroes.

Shadow and Deja Vu are dead on as Pro- bounty hunters, Thunderbolt's style.

Man O'War, Sea Urchin, Supercollider, Blackbird all the same as previously stated. Iron Ox is out of town. Maybe that's where Shadow and Deja Vu come in.

That makes 9 Pro-, 9 Anti-, not counting El Diablo, him being the weight that tips the scales. Notice I didn't include any FFvTR characters. I don't own that game, and I don't know the characters as well.
[/spoiler]

[BaronGrackle]

Notice I didn't include any FFvTR characters. I don't own that game, and I don't know the characters as well.

I definately recommend it, if you can find it. If you don't see yourself buying it, there's a fairly easy-to-find Youtube video that goes through the entire campaign. Of course, you can't PLAY it that way...

Alright, so we're seeing a storyline where Minuteman stays pro-registration, Liberty Lad is against registration (which, if I'm looking at the list correctly, would make him perhaps the most dominating public image of the resistance), and Law and Order find themselves fighting an internal struggle against each other. You've both convinced me to change my version in the above regards.

Man- Bot would be Pro- Reg, because of the accidental death of his brother, and the idea of regrestering would prevent similar accidents.

You know, I never actually thought of it that way. You have a VERY good point; I didn't really have a reason to assign him as anti-registration other than him being a grumpy guss.

[BentonGrey]

Well, this is a really cool idea, and I could actually see it happening in the FF world and making a heck of a lot more sense then in Marvel U, especially given the blind faith many of them have in the government.  I mean, it would actually be reasonable for Minuteman to back the government to begin with, and even be a little unclear as to his teammates' reasons for opposing such a measure.

I'm definitely seeing the sides as-

Pro Reg: Minuteman, Man O' War, Supercollider, Bullet, Law, Manbot, and an army of weak copies of Microwave (plus some villains).
Anti-Reg: Mentor, Liberty Lad, Sea Urchin, The Ant, The Bard, Blackbird, Tombstone, and Microwave (this would be a really great story to see Microwave develop a personality and a conscience) 

El Diablo is the tough one, but I think he'd end up going Anti, since he's already got tons of fame and publicity WITH the mask on.

[vamp]

Man- Bot would be Pro- Reg, because of the accidental death of his brother, and the idea of regrestering would prevent similar accidents.

Never thought of it that way, but it makes alot of sense.

So what would the powder keg to this war? I really have no idea of what would be the trigger.

[The Hitman]

So what would the powder keg to this war? I really have no idea of what would be the trigger.

Well, Alchemiss hasn't been mentioned at all yet, so, if this is a slightly alternate universe, I suppose her "evil side" Entropy could resurface and destroy a town or something.

[BaronGrackle]

So what would the powder keg to this war? I really have no idea of what would be the trigger.

Well, Alchemiss hasn't been mentioned at all yet, so, if this is a slightly alternate universe, I suppose her "evil side" Entropy could resurface and destroy a town or something.

See, it would be a lot less complicated if everyone had a MEMORY of what happened during the end of the last game. Civilians and the government would realize that, somehow, one of the Freedom Force heroes had gained near-unlimited power and nearly destroyed the fabric of reality. I think that would be enough to set off concerns.

Or, if we want to approach a grittier bronze age... something could go wrong with the heroes. Lots of scenarios.

Deja Vu clones the heroes' DNA, sending out waves of evil versions. Or, Blitzkrieg is revealed to be alive, and he mind-controls several heroes into rampant destruction. Either way, once the dust settles, the government realizes how many lives would have been saved if they had more information about the heroes and their weaknesses.

Or... Freedom Force is foiling a petty crime. Somehow, Man-Bot's suit becomes disconnected. *POW!* He takes out everybody within a block. "What... NO! NO, NOT AGAIN!" The government has its incentive, and Man-Bot is among the first to submit.

Or... if we're tired of Man-Bot plot, and we want to be closer to Marvel's version... there can be a small team of Energy X heroes who are not members of Freedom Force. Forming a more amateurish squad, they try to take on an amateurish supervillain, resulting in terrible collateral damage and loss of life. So many things could happen.

EDIT ADDITION: I'm really liking the idea of Microwave on one side and a Microwave army on the other side. If one of the Pro-Registration heroes brings Microwave's schematics to Mr. Mechanical, and Mechanical builds this army for the government, then we have an actual in-universe reason for why the original Microwave would be structurally superior to these copies! If anyone here has played Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2, just imagine HK-47 and the HK-50 droids!!

[BaronGrackle]

Not meaning to spam or anything, but I was just thinking of El Diablo. Most of us can't seem to decide here which side he'd be on.

It's his origin video all over again; there's gonna be a rumble. Only this time, can he stop it? He can't leave like Iron Ox probably will; his friends are all here. Like Hitman said, he'd be "the weight that tips the scales". What to do, Ricardo?  :o

[Carravaggio]

...love to see some EZScript on this guys...

[GogglesPizanno]

So what would the powder keg to this war? I really have no idea of what would be the trigger.

The trigger would be easy, the resolution is what would be hard...

The problem I see (much like the Marvel version) is that its an intriguing idea, and sets up all kinds of scenarios, but what's a satisfying ending? Its a story with two POV's but unless you specifically make one of them the "bad" one, there is no real good way to end it...Unless of course you just spin this out into a reworked alternate universe sort of thing and make the outcome the new reality.

Which I admit has its own sort of fun aspect to it.

...love to see some EZScript on this guys...

What if you made it a campaign, and during the first mission you got to choose what side you were fighting for? Or if during subsequent missions, if you changed your mind you could switch sides again? It would require some doubling up of missions written form each side's perspective... but that could be quite intriguing. Not to mention give some interesting replayability to it.

[BaronGrackle]

What if you made it a campaign, and during the first mission you got to choose what side you were fighting for? Or if during subsequent missions, if you changed your mind you could switch sides again? It would require some doubling up of missions written form each side's perspective... but that could be quite intriguing. Not to mention give some interesting replayability to it.

Two versions I can think of for handling playable campaigns (yay to scripters!). One version has them as two different campaigns (a la Warcraft or Command and Conquer games). Whichever side you choose, you gain prestige to actually recruit members who are undecided or who are having doubts about being on the other side. Some of them who are really doubtful might have empty, cost-boosting attributes to make them really difficult to recruit. (If this is done with FX, all villains would have the "Infamous" attribute, and government missions would be forced to use them sometimes). Can a cinematic activate once a team member is recruited through prestige? They never had that in the original games.

A different version has a single campaign, but it alternates between the sides (when you play a Pro-Government level, the Anti-Government heroes can't be in your squad). Then, could you make it so that for the final levels, the hero(es) you choose dictate which side you play?

On a different note, I've been thinking about Law and Order  :D. If we'd want to have them disagree, it may be best to work out a way that Law is Pro-Government and Order is Anti-Government. The reason? If you look at any of our rosters, the Pros could really use a strong female figure, and the Antis could really use a big powerful wrecking machine. We could say that they have different perspectives on the accident: Law made her identity public then for the good of society, and she would have been fine if the government had taken its responsibility to protect her. Order was a member of this government (police force) and was a victim of its negligence; he doesn't feel they can get their act together to do more good than harm.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

As for the resolution, how about a new enemy who emerges in the chaos and uses the registration to track down and capture or destroy all the registered heroes.  The unregistered main FF characters are the only ones left.  They break out the registered ones and the two sides are united again as they defeat the bad guy.  In the aftermath of this, they conclude that registration has its own disadvatages and dangers.  As a compromise, registration becomes optional so long as FF and other official recognized supergroups oversee the heroes.  Criminals and heroes who break laws are still kept track of, however.

[GogglesPizanno]

As for the resolution, how about a new enemy who emerges in the chaos and uses the registration to track down and capture or destroy all the registered heroes.

OK, thats not bad. Though I think to really sell it, you'd need to have at least one or two dramatic deaths (though what character really ever "dies")

A different version has a single campaign, but it alternates between the sides (when you play a Pro-Government level, the Anti-Government heroes can't be in your squad). Then, could you make it so that for the final levels, the hero(es) you choose dictate which side you play?

What if you had a set mini-roster of pro and anti, and then put the rest of the characters in a pool, and every time you started a campaign, it would assign the rest randomly. This would make the game strategically more varied as you were never sure what side would have what characters. It potentially could make it pretty unbalanced, but I think for a storyline like this, it kind of makes a bit of sense.

[BaronGrackle]

As for the resolution, how about a new enemy who emerges in the chaos and uses the registration to track down and capture or destroy all the registered heroes.

OK, thats not bad. Though I think to really sell it, you'd need to have at least one or two dramatic deaths (though what character really ever "dies")

I'd recommend a villain without any Energy X powers. So that the only way he'd have a chance at succeeding is through this program. Maybe he'd be a corrupt general or just an ambitious crimelord.

Since this isn't attached to any continuity, we could in theory kill off as many heroes as we please.  :verf

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I'd recommend a villain without any Energy X powers. So that the only way he'd have a chance at succeeding is through this program. Maybe he'd be a corrupt general or just an ambitious crimelord.

Perhaps one of the major powers behind the registration in the first place, someone who hates everyone with powers.  Maybe not.  Further thoughts?

[GogglesPizanno]

What if the people responsible for proposing the registration are in fact the secret identities of some yet unseen villains.

You could tie it into existing continuity by making them deep undercover agents of the Dominion that were left at the end of the first game. Or you could go even more insidious and make them like some of the Cylons in BSG... they actually think they are real people doing good until they are "activated."

[vamp]

As for the resolution, how about a new enemy who emerges in the chaos and uses the registration to track down and capture or destroy all the registered heroes.  The unregistered main FF characters are the only ones left.  They break out the registered ones and the two sides are united again as they defeat the bad guy.  In the aftermath of this, they conclude that registration has its own disadvatages and dangers.  As a compromise, registration becomes optional so long as FF and other official recognized supergroups oversee the heroes.  Criminals and heroes who break laws are still kept track of, however.

Very cool Idea :thumbup:

OK, thats not bad. Though I think to really sell it, you'd need to have at least one or two dramatic deaths (though what character really ever "dies")

Though this pains me[spoiler]

• El Diablo: Simply because he is the fence sitter. Not only would this cause a shock to the players, but also a shock to the ingame heroes.

The next to are just possibilities if it more deaths are needed:

• Minute-Man:Not only would it allow for the a new leader to emerge (presumably Liberty (-Lord?), but it would bring the team back together
• The Ant: For nothing more than the shock factor. Can you imagine if Spider-man would have died in civil war?

[/spoiler]

I'd recommend a villain without any Energy X powers. So that the only way he'd have a chance at succeeding is through this program. Maybe he'd be a corrupt general or just an ambitious crimelord.

Perhaps one of the major powers behind the registration in the first place, someone who hates everyone with powers.  Maybe not.  Further thoughts?

That would be cool. It would have to be a brand new enemy though. Maybe someone from there past who they hurt. Or possibly even a league of villians ie the guy tombstone killed, plus more (I cant think of the others involved in the there bios. And if a leader of this new group is needed, why not man-bots brother. Imagine this whole time he thought he was dead, but his brother has actually been plotting against him this whole time.

[BaronGrackle]

Though this pains me[spoiler]

• El Diablo: Simply because he is the fence sitter. Not only would this cause a shock to the players, but also a shock to the ingame heroes.

The next to are just possibilities if it more deaths are needed:

• Minute-Man:Not only would it allow for the a new leader to emerge (presumably Liberty (-Lord?), but it would bring the team back together
• The Ant: For nothing more than the shock factor. Can you imagine if Spider-man would have died in civil war?

[/spoiler]

My take on possible deaths:
[spoiler]
El Diablo would be great, IF this takes place after he and Sea Urchin get married. If it happens before then, then we should probably keep them both alive--even though there aren't continuity ties.

It was mentioned that a villain at some point could be eliminating heroes that are registered, taking advantage of his information:
Bullet (through radiation or acid) and Man O' War (through cold) are both powerful heroes with distinct vulnerabilities that could destroy them. Man O' War's death could especially create a character shift in Sea Urchin.

Side note: unlike Minuteman and Liberty, I cannot imagine either Man O' War or Sea Urchin purposely harming each other under any circumstances, even if they were on different sides.

Minuteman or the Ant would be shocking and random. As far as how it happens, I think it would be better if at least one person were killed in the midst of civil war-fighting, not just by a villain.[/spoiler]

For the civil war to be authentic, it can't ONLY be a supervillain puppeteering the heroes. There have to be legitimate rationales for both sides, and I don't think it should just end with a "we were clearly right, and you were clearly wrong."

I still think Liberty Lad should have at least partially selfish motivations for fighting. The rebellious nature type. I could see him killing an enemy hero (it wouldn't have to be a fair fight, mind you), or killing one of his own team members while trying to take out an enemy with a supergrenade. In my mind, he'd have developed into a character willing to make these types of "sacrifices" for the "greater good" of individual freedom. This way, even if Registration is proven to be a supervillain's design, there're valid arguments against heroes being left to their own devices.

Some features of my dark ending:
[spoiler]
A handful of important heroes are killed.
After an internal struggle, Order's psyche has been completely overwhelmed by that of Law, so that she cannot transform into him (much to her eventual regret).
El Diablo and Sea Urchin are much closer together, so that their future marriage can be inferred.
Liberty Lad has been responsible (either directly or indirectly) in at least one death; at the end, he'd either be convinced to be imprisoned or he'd go on self-imposed exile.
[/spoiler]

[The Hitman]

Some features of my dark ending:
[spoiler]
A handful of important heroes are killed.
After an internal struggle, Order's psyche has been completely overwhelmed by that of Law, so that she cannot transform into him (much to her eventual regret).
El Diablo and Sea Urchin are much closer together, so that their future marriage can be inferred.
Liberty Lad has been responsible (either directly or indirectly) in at least one death; at the end, he'd either be convinced to be imprisoned or he'd go on self-imposed exile.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
Mentor killing someone would be interesting. A sort of "I'm not from here, I don't have to follow Earth's rules" personality develops, and knocks out, ummm... Eve. Well, not really Eve, but her mortal shell she's been using on Earth. Or maybe The Ant. But his memories are transferred into hundreds of ants, which can reform his form at will... maybe not that second one.

Because of this, Minuteman calls is quits, and passes his staff to Liberty Lad. (To be fair, that would set up a mod idea I have entitled "Freedom Force: The End," where an aged MM comes out of retirement to take down a lunitic vigilante Liberty Lad.

I like the Law/Order idea, and I REALLY like the El D/Sea U plot point.
[/spoiler]

Undercover Dominion agents would be perfect for this...

[vamp]

Though this pains me[spoiler]

• El Diablo: Simply because he is the fence sitter. Not only would this cause a shock to the players, but also a shock to the ingame heroes.

The next to are just possibilities if it more deaths are needed:

• Minute-Man:Not only would it allow for the a new leader to emerge (presumably Liberty (-Lord?), but it would bring the team back together
• The Ant: For nothing more than the shock factor. Can you imagine if Spider-man would have died in civil war?

[/spoiler]

My take on possible deaths:
[spoiler]
El Diablo would be great, IF this takes place after he and Sea Urchin get married. If it happens before then, then we should probably keep them both alive--even though there aren't continuity ties.

It was mentioned that a villain at some point could be eliminating heroes that are registered, taking advantage of his information:
Bullet (through radiation or acid) and Man O' War (through cold) are both powerful heroes with distinct vulnerabilities that could destroy them. Man O' War's death could especially create a character shift in Sea Urchin.

Side note: unlike Minuteman and Liberty, I cannot imagine either Man O' War or Sea Urchin purposely harming each other under any circumstances, even if they were on different sides.

Minuteman or the Ant would be shocking and random. As far as how it happens, I think it would be better if at least one person were killed in the midst of civil war-fighting, not just by a villain.[/spoiler]

For the civil war to be authentic, it can't ONLY be a supervillain puppeteering the heroes. There have to be legitimate rationales for both sides, and I don't think it should just end with a "we were clearly right, and you were clearly wrong."

I still think Liberty Lad should have at least partially selfish motivations for fighting. The rebellious nature type. I could see him killing an enemy hero (it wouldn't have to be a fair fight, mind you), or killing one of his own team members while trying to take out an enemy with a supergrenade. In my mind, he'd have developed into a character willing to make these types of "sacrifices" for the "greater good" of individual freedom. This way, even if Registration is proven to be a supervillain's design, there're valid arguments against heroes being left to their own devices.

Some features of my dark ending:
[spoiler]
A handful of important heroes are killed.
After an internal struggle, Order's psyche has been completely overwhelmed by that of Law, so that she cannot transform into him (much to her eventual regret).
El Diablo and Sea Urchin are much closer together, so that their future marriage can be inferred.
Liberty Lad has been responsible (either directly or indirectly) in at least one death; at the end, he'd either be convinced to be imprisoned or he'd go on self-imposed exile.
[/spoiler]

I can't believe I forgot about El Diablo marring Sea urchin :doh:

Your ideas do make a lot more sense then mine though (In truth mine were pretty random :D)

I kind of don't like the idea of LL being somewhat evil. I pictured it maybe it starting as him simply trying to prove he is better than MM, but eventually he finds truth in what his side believes in. Then again I don't know too much about the character....

And as for El Diablo
[spoiler]If it is decided that it wasn't only enemies making the registration (even then), I think El Diablo should be the sacrifice that ends the war. Maybe after him playing both sides he decides neither one is right or wrong and goes to stop them. It would of course be even more climatic if LL in the battle earlier had killed one of the opposing side, causing them to want to retaliate, much to MM's disapproval. After they destroy a good amount of the city, ever member of both teams is down except LL and MM. They both go for there deathblows (MM of course holds back a tad), sending minute man's staff and Liberty's shield (in the design i made he had a shield) into a building. El Diablo intervenes with a flaming explosion sending both members flying. He then notices the building that holds both the staff and weapon about to collapse on Sea Urchin. She opens her eyes to see El Diablo using his last bit of power to hold up the building. So much so that he becomes completely engulfed i flames and discinegrates the building, but in doing so went with it.

It ends with El Diablo seeing Alchemiss again. She says "Another one playin hero, eh sugah?". He replies "Do I know you?'. She laughingly replies "Well that ain't all that important right now, but it does look like you are needed back on earth more then we need you here. Lets see what we can do 'bout that...." [/spoiler]

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Another thought I had about my ending is that the real bad guy ends up gaining control of all the Microwave copies and uses them to attack the heroes, using the information from registration, and starts conquering the planet.  This even more drives through the point that registration was a bigger danger than the one it was meant to prevent.

[vamp]

So do ya'll think that some heroes need costume updates for this war?

I think Liberty needed one [spoiler][/spoiler]

Do ya'll know any others that might need one?
I might do a few others if I knew who needed one....

[Gremlin]

DUDE.  That's awesome! :thumbup:

I don't know if I like the shield...too much like the Cap.

If there's somebody killing registered heroes due to leaked information (Mr. Mechanical working under the table?  If he's the pro-reg's tech guy, I can see him backstabbing everyone), maybe there could be somebody violently anti-reg, attacking pro-reg politicians?  Marvel's seemed obviously "this is the good side, the other is the bad side;" FF needs a bit more grey.

As for a resolution...none!  Everybody dies! :P
How about the flip of Marvel: the registration is repealed.  The databases are destroyed, but any leaked information is still out there.  The divisions might still remain due to bad blood; no government can force people to still work together this time.  Shadow and Deja Vu, working pro-reg, flaunt their pardons.  And the anti-reg side is furious that people died over virtually nothing.

[BaronGrackle]

[spoiler]
Or maybe The Ant. But his memories are transferred into hundreds of ants, which can reform his form at will... maybe not that second one.
[/spoiler]

Yes, yes, wicked YES! Spider-man meets Swarm. Goodbye the Ant, and hello the Colony. Civil War subject aside, this is a great idea.

And as for El Diablo [spoiler]It ends with El Diablo seeing Alchemiss again. She says "Another one playin hero, eh sugah?". He replies "Do I know you?'. She laughingly replies "Well that ain't all that important right now, but it does look like you are needed back on earth more then we need you here. Lets see what we can do 'bout that...."[/spoiler]

Sometimes I forget that an important part of comic book deaths is that about 99% of them don't actually die. This would be an fun way to have it both ways... and incorporate a lost character.

Another thought I had about my ending is that the real bad guy ends up gaining control of all the Microwave copies and uses them to attack the heroes, using the information from registration, and starts conquering the planet.  This even more drives through the point that registration was a bigger danger than the one it was meant to prevent.

Oh yes. Here is an idea for a couple of short levels, toward the end of the campaign. Of course, you can see the Star Wars influence in me:

(long)[spoiler]
Nuclear Winter stands in a dark containment cell.
Offscreen Guard: Ugh! (falls to the ground)
Computer Voice: Heat containment grid powering down.
Nuclear Winter: Who is here? Who is foolish enough to loosen the restraints of Nuclear Winter?
Mysterious Voice: Someone who wants to help you. Someone who thinks we can help each other.
Nuclear Winter: Your people already came for that Shadow Babushka and Deja Nesting Doll. I am no running dog! I will not serve you!
Mysterious Voice: (dismissively) Oh please, Agent Sukhov. Not even Moscow trusts you to serve them.
Nuclear Winter: You will not call me...
Mysterious Voice: Our master only wants you to do what you desire. He wants to help you accomplish your goals. He has seen great potential in you from the very beginning, when the Energy first spilled to this planet. You should know that, had the gift not been accidentally released, you would have still been one of his chosen.
Nuclear Winter: My chamber has nearly cooled, Tovarich. I suggest you run.
Mysterious Voice: And I suggest you listen. My master wants to help you destroy your true enemies: The Freedom Force.
Nuclear Winter: Bah! Freedom Force is a paper tiger. I will crush them!
Mysterious Voice: Yes, and precisely because you continue to play rock to their paper, they will continue to defeat you.
Nuclear Winter: Enough of your American idioms! What is the point?
Mysterious Voice: My point is, we know a better way. We know a way... you can win.

Screen fades to black. New mission selection screen:

Squad Members
1. Nuclear Winter
2.
3.
4.

Other available members: Ice Trooper (x3), Frost Warrior (x3), Ice Queen (x3), Snow Man (x3)

New cutscene begins. A group of American soldiers run on-screen, surrounding Man O' War.

Soldier: Area secure, Commander Waters. No sign of reported criminal activity.
Man O' War: I can see as much myself, lad. Radio Minuteman's squad and see what he's found.
Soldier: Negative, sir. Radio communication just went down.
Man O' War: Blast it all! What I wouldn't give for Mentor and his temporal link again. The director's certainly going to hear about this one.
Soldier: If you don't mind me saying, sir, something smells fishy--umm, funny. Why would they...
Man O' War: I was just thinking the same thing, lad. Let's recede elsewhere.

The group turns to move. An alien portal opens, revealing Nuclear Winter and his squad.

Nuclear Winter: But you have just arrived, Tovarich. Sit down. Enjoy a nice, cold beverage.
Man O' War: Nuclear Winter?! I'd as soon have a Molotov cocktail. Alright, lads, let's... uh...
Nuclear Winter: Ha! Sorry for the frosty reception.
Soldier: It's an ambush! Hero to the back! Get him outta here!

Mission begins. Primary Objectives:
*Defeat Man O' War. Don't let him escape!
*Defeat every soldier--no witnesses!

Mission ends. Cutscene:

Man O' War: Uhh...
Nuclear Winter: Ha! You are kaput, Comrade Caviar! A minnow trapped in the frozen River Volga. (he attacks with an ice beam, trapping Man O' War in a frozen state)
Frost Warrior: We have done it! We have beaten him!
Nuclear Winter: Nyet. He is not finished. But I will end this now... (fires another ice beam at Man O' War) Do svidanja, Man O' War. (the ice beam is sustained as the screen goes black)

Meanwhile, another cutscene opens. Bullet is in a small room with several Microwave robots.

Bullet: Mighty cramped in here. You sure we're in the right place, Microwave guy?
Microwave Mech: Positioning systems indicate correct destination. Do you request confirmation verification with central headquarters?
Bullet: Uh, yeah, that'd be nice. Didn't see any crime goin on in this whole building. And back up a bit, would ya? No offense, but y'all and your ray guns kinda creep me out.
Microwave Mech: Contacting central headquarters. Receiving new directives. Updating.
(short period of silence)
Microwave Mech: New objectives uploaded. Updating friend/foe matrix: Commander Dwight Arrow now designated as target.
Bullet: Huh. That ain't right.

Mission begins with player's only character as Bullet. Primary Objectives:
*Escape from the facility.[/spoiler]

So do ya'll think that some heroes need costume updates for this war?

I think Liberty needed one

Very nice! Liberty looks... adult. I wouldn't say that everyone needed a new costume, but I would say that if you give L-man this geddup, then the others might look anachronistic without a change themselves. Especially Sea Urchin and perhaps Green Genie. Looking at the game manual, apparently El Diablo was 19 years old in the first game, (but he already looks older than that) and the Ant was only a year older than Liberty Lad! I don't think we need a Scarlet Ant (Fire Ant?) or Black-suited symbiote, though.

If there's somebody killing registered heroes due to leaked information (Mr. Mechanical working under the table?  If he's the pro-reg's tech guy, I can see him backstabbing everyone), maybe there could be somebody violently anti-reg, attacking pro-reg politicians?  Marvel's seemed obviously "this is the good side, the other is the bad side;" FF needs a bit more grey.

As for a resolution...none!  Everybody dies!
How about the flip of Marvel: the registration is repealed.  The databases are destroyed, but any leaked information is still out there.  The divisions might still remain due to bad blood; no government can force people to still work together this time.  Shadow and Deja Vu, working pro-reg, flaunt their pardons.  And the anti-reg side is furious that people died over virtually nothing.

I'm fine with somebody being violently Anti-reg. The idea of it being Liberty Lad wasn't too popular, but someone suggested Mentor. An alternative would be if they accidentally cause a large amount of collateral damage.

I actually wouldn't want Mr. Mechanical to be the backroom villain... I like the idea of him suddenly getting recognized and acknowledged by the government, being fawned over, and being able to legitimately make death machines. I prefer the idea of secret Dominion agents... if Mentor finds out about that, he'd have more reason to be enraged at those supporting registration.

If registration does turn out to be a secret evil plot, then I think the resolution would need to have at least a draw or a slight anti-registration victory. I like the idea someone gave of a compromise between the idealists of the factions (both the sides becoming somewhat disenchanted by their own cause, but still opposed to the other cause).

[Protomorph]

Vamp, that Liberty Lad costume is killer!

But being Minuteman's partner, he'd likely have taught him to use a staff, or some other weapon. A mace, maybe...hmm. Too bad Order already has a hammer. Quetzy has a staff too, so what other weapon could Liberty Lad (Liberty Man?) use, if not a shield?

[The Hitman]

Vamp, that Liberty Lad costume is killer!

But being Minuteman's partner, he'd likely have taught him to use a staff, or some other weapon. A mace, maybe...hmm. Too bad Order already has a hammer. Quetzy has a staff too, so what other weapon could Liberty Lad (Liberty Man?) use, if not a shield?

I agree, that Liberty Lad costume is freakin' great, but he'd probably use a bostaff rather than a shield.

You know what'd be great? If the Dominion is really behind all of this, why wouldn't there be undercover spies on both sides? Hear me out:

Mentor kills someone (doesn't matter who.) Everyone's shocked. Then, when both sides are at their weakest, the Dominion shows their true form, and it turns out Mentor has been replaced early on by a Dominion spy as well! He could reveal a "Dark Mentor" costume and takes charge of the Dominion troops! Maybe it's Praetor, after some appearance surgery?! That'd be cool, I think.

EDIT: Vamp, buddy, could I get a copy of that skin please. I may have something- something- something that it would look good on...

EDIT AGAIN: I got bored this evening, so I did a quick mock- up of what I think Liberty Lad would look like.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Vamp's skin would look really sweet on this, guys...