Power Magnitude: None

[Outcast]

When choosing what kind of powers your character will have, some of you may have noticed that there are certain powers that have No Magnitude. By default, you can see this on powers like the Stun Grenade which does not do any damage but instead has a high percentage to stun. Other powers give a high percentage to knockback instead. So far i've seen this being done with the crushing type of damage.

I was just wondering if you can use this combination to all the other damage types as well such as piercing,energy,fire,cold,mental(such as panic or rage),mystical(such as blind or hex), electrical, acid,radiation,etc. without making it seem weird. I'm interested to know specifically (if there are any) which damage types that's not really suited to having a power magnitude of None combined either with a stun or knock back effect. (Possibly because it would not make sense to do such a combination. :mellow:)

Any help/suggestions appreciated. :)

[stumpy]

The thing to keep in mind with powers where the base damage type is a state change (acid burn, irradiate, the various mental and mystical states, etc.) is that the power has to affect the target in the first place (that is, it must not be resisted) in order for the "side effects" like stun and knockback to take place. So, if you buy a blind power that does some knockback, buying the magnitude as zero is pointless since it would always be resisted and the KB would never take place.

Similarly, powers that cause a primary state change will not cause that state and stun because stun is another primary state and there can only be one primary state in effect on a character at a time. So, a hypnosis attack that also stuns a character will not do both

[Xenolith]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah!  That answers so many questions that I had about my blinding powers.  I never knew that.  Thanks, Stumpy.

[Outcast]

Thanks Stumpy. :) I'm just curious if you guys use the "None" Magnitude in some of the powers of your heroes and characters. Or if you guys seldom/almost never use it. I remember using it with a Fire damage type projectile, i added a stun effect.

[GGiant]

Thanks Stumpy. :) I'm just curious if you guys use the "None" Magnitude in some of the powers of your heroes and characters. Or if you guys seldom/almost never use it. I remember using it with a Fire damage type projectile, i added a stun effect.

Me? I sometimes use those, but changes its damage type for the enemies.
Like when I fight Nuclear Winter, its fire damage but no magnitude but high chance of stun, so it is not most likely that he will resist, I think.

[stumpy]

I use zero-magnitude attacks for various powers where the primary effect of the attack is to stun an opponent (like a taser) or do knockback (attacks that might represent a column of air or a magnetic push, etc.).

[Outcast]

Thanks for the feedback GGiant, Stumpy.

It seems there are still quite a few uses for the zero magnitude attacks, and not as unpopular as i thought. I never thought of using them for tasers,air attacks or magnetic attacks.  :thumbup: Great examples Stumpy!

[UnkoMan]

The thing to keep in mind with powers where the base damage type is a state change (acid burn, irradiate, the various mental and mystical states, etc.) is that the power has to affect the target in the first place (that is, it must not be resisted) in order for the "side effects" like stun and knockback to take place. So, if you buy a blind power that does some knockback, buying the magnitude as zero is pointless since it would always be resisted and the KB would never take place.

Similarly, powers that cause a primary state change will not cause that state and stun because stun is another primary state and there can only be one primary state in effect on a character at a time. So, a hypnosis attack that also stuns a character will not do both

Does this mean that my flashing lights with blind and stun is pointless?

[stumpy]

Does this mean that my flashing lights with blind and stun is pointless?

Not at all. You can have a primary state in effect at the same time as one or more secondary states. So, an attack power that blinds and sometimes stuns can be an effective attack because you can be blinded and stunned at the same time (and it helps that most secondary states last longer than stun, so the target will still be blinded for a while after the stun wears off). What would be pointless would be combining stun with another primary state like panic, because you can't be panicked and stunned at the same time.

[Outcast]

Not at all. You can have a primary state in effect at the same time as one or more secondary states. So, an attack power that blinds and sometimes stuns can be an effective attack because you can be blinded and stunned at the same time (and it helps that most secondary states last longer than stun, so the target will still be blinded for a while after the stun wears off). What would be pointless would be combining stun with another primary state like panic, because you can't be panicked and stunned at the same time.

How about combining panic with a knockback effect?

What about the other types of attacks?  Acid Burn, Alteration, Clone target, Decrease, Density Max, Energy Leech, Genetic Damage, Hypnosis, Irradiate, Mental Blank, Power Null, Remove Defense, Stasis,Weaken, Toadify.... would it be pointless to combine any of these with stun/knockback?

I'm not so sure. What i think would fall under other pointless combinations with stun are: Balance, Disrupt Object, Freeze, Hex, Ignition, Molecular Excitation,Objectify,Rage, Polymorph, Possession, Purgatory. Knockback....is another matter.

Am i wrong in some cases? :huh:

[stumpy]

The the issues with knockback are more just common sense considerations. I.e., there is no point in combining knockback with a power like stasis, exile, or freeze that locks a character into a certain position. Similarly, there isn't that much benefit to combining knockback with a state that changes the physical form of the target (like objectify) since I don't know that the game keeps the momentum for the new object (though I don't recall checking that for sure). And, obviously, there is limited value in adding KB to a state attack when the state is one that is removed as soon as the target affected is damaged, as is the case with hypnosis or mental blank.

Now, I have never bothered adding stun to powers that only work on objects because objects can't be stunned. When I first started playing, I thought the stun and KB for ignition and disruption attacks applied to the explosion created when those objects exploded. But (it's been a while now), I am pretty sure that's not what happens.

I will admit that I have had some fun by adding KB to a molecular excitation beam, though.  :cool:

I don't recall if I've ever tried it, but I don't see why it wouldn't be effective to add stun or KB to a balance attack...

[Outcast]

Thanks again Stumpy for your patience. ^_^

I'm trying to make something random. So i wanted to get some input/second opinion regarding this. Just needed to clarify some things.

[Epimethee]

Panic + knockback + stun swapped to irradiate or acid progressive damage = Mwhawhawhaw!

[stumpy]

It would be cool, hypothetically. But, so that people who aren't sure don't get confused, the stun in a panic power is one of the combinations that won't work, right? The stun won't swap out to anything because the game engine replaces it with panic before the sink's callback is serviced.

I was almost certain that primary state attacks with stun don't do much that's useful with the stun. At least, stun carrier swaps don't work. Do I need to test that again?

(Actually, I should note that the stun actually takes place, but the engine replaces it with the other primary state almost instantly. But, one side effect of the momentary stun is that the character is stunned for a millisecond or whatever and the engine cancels his current attack actions, makes him fall if he was flying, etc.)

[Epimethee]

LOL. My memory fails me miserably (again!); the swap is to panic and the main attack to progressive damage (or is it? I'd need to check that hero file again, as my brain seems rather unreliable).