spider-man one more day

[Talavar]

Eh, Marvel still puts out a few good books - generally the ones that fly under the radar for whatever reason - and the X-books are better than they've been in years*.







*Disclaimer: this statement is dependent on the outcome of the current crossover.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I'm not a Spider-man fan, but this to me just sounds like another in a long line of horrible EiC decisions by Joe Q...All the man seems to be able to do is cause controversy, just to get huge comic sales.  Why can't he direct the characters with a bit more respect and make sure they're written well?

A lot of the things that this terrible wretch-con is erasing, Joe is to blame for letting happen (The Spider Totem stuff, Loose Gwen Stacy and her twin kids, the identity reveal, etc...)...He made bad decisions and he's making more to try and correct them.  Peter Parker making deals with a demon to save a woman (Aunt May) he should just let go.  Let the woman die, Marvel and move on.

I thought killing Steve Rogers was horrible (it still is)...This is worse.

Dana

[zuludelta]

Writer Steven Grant (Punisher, Legends of The Dark Knight, X-Man) had this interesting take on the whole One More Day/Brand New Day thing, as detailed in this thread:

In any case, doing a deal with the devil... that's something future storytellers can just blow off and never mention if they choose, unless it leaves Spider-Man radically transformed, and then they have to reverse it somehow. Personally, given the Civil War circumstances, I'd have preferred to see a long storyline where Peter, left with no other options, cuts a deal with Tony Stark where May and Mary Jane are given new identities and sent off to safety where they don't have to live under threat of revenge from old Spidey villains, while Peter basically sells himself for their sakes to an authority whose righteousness he's incapable of acknowledging, with the soulcrushing knowledge that his "masters" do know where his loved ones are at all times. It'd be interesting to see how long they could go without having Stark or some stand-in threaten harm to wife and aunt when Spider-Man doesn't obey orders they believe are good. Not that I think it's a storyline that would easily sustain... how many Spider-Man books are they selling these days?

[Agent]

Brand New Day preview pages.

Spider-Man.  The George Costanza of the superhero world.

[cmdrkoenig67]

The page with Aunt May waking up Peter and urging him to go get a job is just messed up...This is not a man who is capable,  independent and able to have a stable relationship.  This just screams loser to me...Peter Parker should not be a loser...Should he have money problems?...Yes.  Should he have arguments  with his wife?...Sure.  Should he have trouble with his students as a teacher?...Heck yes.

I know he loves his aunt, but the "living with her, having her cook and clean for him is many, many steps backward for the characters (yes...For Aunt May too).

Dana

[bredon7777]

As far as I'm concerned, Mephisto put Pete in a coma, and all the adventures within this brand new day nonsense are taking place entirely inside his head.

[Sword]

I'll vote for that, bredon.
It has to be a dream.

[Dr.Volt]

[spoiler]
peter and mary never even dating? screw up so many things it's mind boggling[/spoiler]

Yeah!  Exactly!!!  Just like that!  He and MJ never were together at all!!!  That's absurd!!!  And as I've said before...just really crappy writing!

[BlueBard]

Just make mine... Anything but Marvel...

[Panther_Gunn]

Just make mine... Anything but Marvel...

'Nuff Said!

[Podmark]

I read the status quo page, apparently Marvel has just rebooted back to the 70s or something. That is quite lame. However I do believe that the ongoing book could very well be good, it's just built on one hugely crappy retcon.

[Previsionary]

From what JQ reports, everything that's happened when Pete was married still happened...somehow. Basically no continuity was changed except harry being back and spidey's identity was erased from people's minds. Obviously that makes all kinds of sense. It doesn't contradict his other goals at all. All of you stop thinking about it. It's magic, now leave it alone.

Just make mine... Anything but Marvel...

Just make mine... Anything but Marvel...

'Nuff Said!

Comments like this confuse me. Did you guys previously buy spider-man prior to this? Did this convince you not to return to marvel despite them having other better books? Do you not see this as on the same level as a superboy continuity punch or one of DC's many crises? *shrugs*

[BlueBard]

I used to buy Marvel.  If I bought Marvel at all anymore, Spider-Man titles would be what I'd buy.

But why should I pay for 'stupid'?  Or 'offensive'?  Or 'senseless retcon'?  Certain previous Spidey story arcs have pretty much soured me on even buying Spidey titles.

I don't have any real comment on DC's reboots because by and large I never collected DC, never read DC on a regular basis, and aside from the main lineup of the JL never much cared about DC.  I will say that I read some of the 'Superman Blue/Red' and had a similar, if more subdued, reaction.  As in, "This ain't Superman".

And likewise, "This ain't Peter Parker".  They're mucking with the history of a beloved character in a really pointless (even offensive) way and I reserve the right to be disgusted with it.  I invite everyone who likes the changes to ignore me completely.  As long as the newspaper comic continues to print the Spider-Man I know and love, Marvel can do whatever the heck they like with that other guy.

[Bujin]

I know I'll probably be drawn and quartered for saying this, but I'm okay with it.  <ducks>

Now before you all start yelling at why I'm wrong, please remember that (a) it's only my opinion and I'm not asking you to change yours, and (b) no amount of posting will get me to change mine, so don't bother.  Now let me explain my thinking - and much of what I initially thought was supported by Joe Q's own logic in his recent interviews:

- Pete's marriage to MJ did indeed paint some stories into a corner, and fundamentally changed the core of his character.  He was no longer the lovable hard-luck hero, he was a guy married to a super-model.
- The marriage was a marketing decision, not a storyline driven one.  For the most part (and I admit to only reading Spidey sporadically over the years), few if any of the stories written since the wedding couldn't have been written without the marriage - but the fact that he was married could limit other stories.
- In some ways, the idea that Pete lives with Aunt May and has problems getting a job, due to his wall-crawling activities is very much in line with his core...his responsibilities as Spider-man have prevented him from the luxuries that others take for granted.
- I don't care how Harry came back...I'm glad he is.

As for the implementation of the story itself, folks are posting things that seem to be inaccurate.  Agree or disagree with the decision, at least argue from fact:

[spoiler]- Some have stated that Pete and MJ never dated:  the real story is that they dated, but Mephisto changed history so that something interfered with the marriage.  Virtually all of the other events leading up to the wedding still "occurred" (for the continuity-conscious).[/spoiler]

[BlueBard]

I like this quote best so far: "Marvel should sell their soul to Mephisto to make sure that no one remembers this."

(http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756&page=2)

[Previsionary]

- I don't care how Harry came back...I'm glad he is.

I don't think anyone would care if Harry was back if this was truly an alternate dimension or if it was actually explained off in the book or BND (which Joe said they would be ignoring OMD for awhile so I don't count on that happening), with him just appearing with a new girlfriend just hurts his death story. Kinda like regressing Peter so far back to deal with stuff he's already been through hurts him (I'm ignoring him kissing some random girl until I get details on that).
Ironically enough:

[spoiler]616 Harry was reborn and ultimate harry *died* on the same day.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]- Some have stated that Pete and MJ never dated:  the real story is that they dated, but Mephisto changed history so that something interfered with the marriage.  Virtually all of the other events leading up to the wedding still "occurred" (for the continuity-conscious).[/spoiler]

I kinda pointed that out above. Regardless, when those comments were posted, no one had a reason to believe otherwise. That was just cleared up recently and it wasn't acknowledged in the book yet beyond the "icy" comment so, that can change at any time.

[Talavar]

Bujin, as some have said (myself included), the problem isn't that the marriage was ended, but how.  The story-mechanic of a literal deal with the devil is pretty off-putting to many readers, again, myself included.

Now, there seems to be a fair bit of positive buzz about the creative team behind 'Brand New Day,' but I won't be reading.  I don't particularly care if that storyline goes on to be the Shakespeare of Spider-man stories, I can only express my displeasure with Marvel's editorial decisions by withholding my money, so that's what I'll be doing.

[Podmark]

I was very interested in BND. I wasn't going to jump abroad immediately but I had planned to keep a close eye on it. I really feel that having 3 issues a month would make for some great reading, assuming the creators are up to it. And I was pretty excited about the artists involved like Jimenez McNiven, and Bachalo. However OMD really hurt my interest.

[Panther_Gunn]

Did you guys previously buy spider-man prior to this? Did this convince you not to return to marvel despite them having other better books? Do you not see this as on the same level as a superboy continuity punch or one of DC's many crises? *shrugs*

I haven't regularly bought comics since mid-'91, and for the most part, from what I've seen & heard about, I think I got out of the game just in time (perhaps even a bit later than I should have).  When I collected, I purchased huge amounts of both companies regularly, and would branch out into other titles for a year or so due to crossovers/summer events/favorite artist, etc.  Way back when, while I was still in school, when I couldn't afford to get as much as I'd like, my Marvel buying started out with Fantastic Four and Spider-Man (both titles, with only occasional issues of Marvel Team-Up).  From watching the old cartoon (Spider-Man, Spider-Man, does whatever a spider can) and picking up the storyline in the comics from back then, Pete has always been one of my Marvel faves.  When he finally hooked & married MJ, I thought that was the best thing that could happen to him.  He's not a philanderer like Stark, or using the Playboy cover, like Bruce, he's a normal guy, that wants things all of us want, so having him go through all these girls over the years was making things look worse & worse for him.  Most of us *want* the hero to get the girl, and I can think of easy ways off the top of my head to keep it interesting while still keeping him married.  

A civil suit wipes out MJ's savings (or a hacker, or identity theft, etc, etc), and she ends up getting blacklisted from modeling and acting (it does happen).  They have to move back in with Aunt May until things pick up.  Not having a good, steady job is again an issue for Pete, without rebooting his entire life after high school.  Why would I want to read about a character that *had* moved on, only to be put back at square 1 through some contrived storyline, and just stagnate there?  The clone saga, the spider god ( :blink:), fallout from Civil War, the delving into the darker side of Pete (as seen in the savage beating I read through him giving Kingpin recently), and making a deal with Mephisto to "go back to the way things were", frankly, makes me overjoyed that I no longer buy comics.

And, no, I don't think it's any better or worse than the whole Superboy Prime fiasco, nor, I think it was called Identity Crisis, where a retcon had the JLA essentially brainwashing & partially lobotomizing some of it's foes.  That's a kind of sour taste that just doesn't go away any time soon.

I know I'll probably be drawn and quartered for saying this, but I'm okay with it.  <ducks>

*shoves a pumpkin bomb down Buj's shorts*

[Bujin]

Bujin, as some have said (myself included), the problem isn't that the marriage was ended, but how.  The story-mechanic of a literal deal with the devil is pretty off-putting to many readers, again, myself included.

Now, there seems to be a fair bit of positive buzz about the creative team behind 'Brand New Day,' but I won't be reading.  I don't particularly care if that storyline goes on to be the Shakespeare of Spider-man stories, I can only express my displeasure with Marvel's editorial decisions by withholding my money, so that's what I'll be doing.

And, as much as I understand that, I truly believe that the reaction would have been the same with most readers no matter what the specifics of the story were.  For many folks (and I'm not pointing to you or anyone specifically on this thread), the simple fact that they've changed the almighty continuity is heresy.

As I indicated above, I really have no interest in defending a position here.  There's nothing to be gained by that, so I'll leave my opinion there, and simply predict that, in a year, folks will have adjusted (as they did after the uproar regarding the Clone Wars, Gwen's twins, organic webshooters, etc.), and most will still buy Spidey comics. 

[Previsionary]

Bujin,

I respect your opinion and all, but most people would've respected a divorce or some other logical story; at the very least, there wouldn't be this huge uproar of negativity, fan division, and threats of quitting a book/company. Yes, there would be complainers because there's always someone around to complain about something, but this story was just wrong in so many ways. Joe isn't even trying to really hold on to old readers, he's all about new readers and he's made it clear he's willing to take the flak and push old readers out the door for his goals. Most of the arguments and disagreements isn't even about the story anymore and it's solely focused on Joe and his decision making skills. He even said that Peter kissing anon. girl on the first page of BND was a "slap in the face" for long time readers or something like that and what do you think the fan reaction was? Exactly. It's not just the story because people aren't even focusing on it anyway. The whole arc, people just focused on one single aspect--the marriage becoming undone by Marvel's Satan/devil. And you know, I can't take a [married] man seriously that's willing to mandate undoing a marriage using magic (ignoring that it was mandated initially. That's not an issue in today's period and it's also not really relevant as it could've been undone years ago if someone wanted to make a good story about it), but at the same time, mandate a marriage between Storm and Black Panther which also didn't make sense and isn't even working out to his advantage.

But anyway, people still complain about the clone wars, believe it or not, and now with JMS's interview about Gwen and the twins, it's back in the front line. Sure, people will adjust eventually, but they also have a right to share their opinion because we, as readers, do have the ultimate power in what sells and such. Though, if you stopped reading a long time ago and don't plan on, or even consider, returning to marvel's lower revenue sales, then you kinda used your power and moved on a long time ago...so complaining now seems sorta futile, no?

[BlueBard]

Though, if you stopped reading a long time ago and don't plan on, or even consider, returning to marvel's lower revenue sales, then you kinda used your power and moved on a long time ago...so complaining now seems sorta futile, no?

Obviously, you don't know the old saying about a happy sailor.  ;)

[doctorchallenger]

A couple of pennies:

I see one flaw in Marvel/ Joe Q's logic: I can see that since the marriage, the hard-luck nature of the Spider-Man has been reduced if not nullified.  It does stand to reason that removing the marriage would then allow that aspect of the character to beused with, for lack of a better word, authenticity.  After all, how hard luck can a character be if he is married to a success supermodel/actress?  Here's the flaw: if the point was to return the character to this track, the story as written completely negates the notion of Peter's hard luck. In original continuity, Peter's hard luck was essentiall bad things, beyond Peter's control, happening to a good person.  In revised continuity, anything bad that happens to Peter is not a matter of luck, bad or otherwise, but choice and fate.  He CHOSE to make a deal with a devil. He CHOSE the kind of life he would lead. If bad things happen to him in the course of that life thereafter, well tough noogies.  If you don't like the life you're leading, you shouldn't have made that deal with a devil.

The hard luck nature of Peter was to create sympathy for the character in the reader. This decision, in sophistcated readers, should act to prevent such feelings.  Who will you feel more sympathy for the person who got in a car accident because of a patch of ice in the road, or who got into an accident because he was driving while intoxicated?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Ah...So is Peter some kind of masochist?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Bujin,

I respect your opinion and all, but most people would've respected a divorce or some other logical story; at the very least, there wouldn't be this huge uproar of negativity, fan division, and threats of quitting a book/company. Yes, there would be complainers because there's always someone around to complain about something, but this story was just wrong in so many ways. Joe isn't even trying to really hold on to old readers, he's all about new readers and he's made it clear he's willing to take the flak and push old readers out the door for his goals. Most of the arguments and disagreements isn't even about the story anymore and it's solely focused on Joe and his decision making skills. He even said that Peter kissing anon. girl on the first page of BND was a "slap in the face" for long time readers or something like that and what do you think the fan reaction was? Exactly. It's not just the story because people aren't even focusing on it anyway. The whole arc, people just focused on one single aspect--the marriage becoming undone by Marvel's Satan/devil. And you know, I can't take a [married] man seriously that's willing to mandate undoing a marriage using magic (ignoring that it was mandated initially. That's not an issue in today's period and it's also not really relevant as it could've been undone years ago if someone wanted to make a good story about it), but at the same time, mandate a marriage between Storm and Black Panther which also didn't make sense and isn't even working out to his advantage.

Good points...

Marrying Storm to the Black Panther was an incredibly stupid/odd move IMHO...I'm sure we'll be seeing that disolved before too long (Spoilers:probably one of them is a Skrull and has been for the whole marriage).  JoeQ made this decision and it's no better than what was done to over twenty years ago to Spider-Man (for those who feel his marriage was a mistake, that is).

Joe just needs to stop making these half-assed and half-thought-out decisions...So he doesn't have to come up with half-assed ideas on how to be rid of them.

Joe isn't responsible for the Spidey marriage, but he is responsible for Spidey's organic web-shooters, the Stacy/Osborne affair/twins resulting form that affair, the Spider-Avatar crap and bunch more.

Will he dissolve the FF Richards' marriage next and de-age them (getting rid of Franklin in the process) just to make Reed and Sue more easily accessible to newer readers?

I wonder how far he plans taking this effort to rid Marvel of it's longtime readers?

Dana

[Dartman X]

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, and everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I don't get all this outrage from people who claim that so-and-so is 'ruining' whichever character/book, and then exclaim in the same breath that "I'm sure glad I don't read [insert title/company] anymore."  Lots of hullabaloo over a book you don't even read... :rolleyes:  People always get upset whenever the status quo is changed, but it doesn't really change forever.  Case in point:  "NOT LIKE THIS!!"   2 months later, Clint's back.  Steve Rogers will be back too, as soon as the movie is ready to come out.

The only person I'll ask directly is Prev: and I'm just curious - not being antagonistic:

Joe isn't even trying to really hold on to old readers, he's all about new readers and he's made it clear he's willing to take the flak and push old readers out the door for his goals.

When/where did that happen?  He said that?

Anyway, when I read the whole 'Other' Spider-avatar nonsense, which was supposed to 'change Spidey as we know him forever!" I rolled my eyes, 'cause 'forever' lasts about as long as it takes someone to come up with the 'Next Big Thing'.  And really, what did they keep from that, besides the organic webshooters?  No one ever mentions the Spider-Twins, or whatever they're called (other than JMS, and only recently), and we all got over it.  It's all hype - they should have called it "One More Dollar", 'cause it's really about the Benjamins.   All these 'Infinite Civil Crisises Dissasembled' are.  I see everything (including 'registration') being undone in the end by the 'Skrull Invasion' anyway, then we can all argue about who's really a Skrull.

When I read OMD I thought 'here we go again', but now having picked up and actually read BND, I admit I'm intrigued.  You know, I never realized how much I missed Harry 'til he came back!  And if being on the run for being 'unregistered', having your aunt shot because you 'outed' yourself, and having to make a deal with the devil himself isn't 'hard luck', I don't know what is!  I'll give it a shot, just because I know that in the end Pete and MJ will somehow get back together, Mephisto will be foiled, May will die and Pam will wake up and find Bobby Ewing in the shower.  :P

[Previsionary]

The only person I'll ask directly is Prev: and I'm just curious - not being antagonistic:

Joe isn't even trying to really hold on to old readers, he's all about new readers and he's made it clear he's willing to take the flak and push old readers out the door for his goals.

When/where did that happen?  He said that?

No, he did not come out and directly say that. He may be somewhat arrogant, but I don't think he'd be dumb enough to say something like that. Just look at any interview by Q and he'll probably be talking about the NEXT generation. While that's nice and all, the next generation does not fund comic books right now. It's existing fans and some of his decisions in the past few years have been pushing them away with the current spidey drama being the biggest contributer as of today. BND, as stated by himself and others, is just a nice jumping on point for new readers without the continuity issues of stories that happened 20, 10, 5, 2, or even 1 year ago...heck, even weeks ago as everything seems to be open or undone.

Examples:

"Ultimately we have to do this to keep this character fresh for this generation and generations to come."

First BND story= giant rehash of some classic spidey elements...not exactly fresh, BUT, it's fresh for new readers who've never seen or heard of the stories BND borrows from.

"A married Peter Parker makes for a less interesting soap opera than a single Peter Parker going about his nerdy kind of life."

I, on the other hand, got tired of all the women he courted and moved on from as the females usually ended up becoming extremely flat kinda like Gwen. And now knowing that nothing will come from his hookups is kinda a turnoff for me. A new reader probably would not mind since they wouldn't have the background knowledge.

"Looking into the future, this is really the right thing to do for the long-term health of the character."

Yes, it's always a good idea to cause a stir in the fan base and risk a loss of sales to justify your ideas. Considering that this story was supposedly in the works for 2 years(during the time of spidey's unmasking...so any claims by marvel to keep that intact back then kinda contradicts what's been said now), I just question why it wasn't fine tuned and more thought out. I'm all for healthiness of characters, but their way of doing it just didn't sit well with me. Of course, one of the bigger complaints was that spidey was becoming too dark and he lost his supporting cast, but he was gradually getting them back (flash, betty, school kids, ms. arrow) and only 1-2 books were all that dark because they chose to write dark stories based on May's year long coma.

Spider-Man's whole life is open to us. There are no shut doors. But the most interesting moment in time is always going to be right now! And from where we pick Pete up in #546 to where he goes from here on out-- is gonna be a great ride! And with the stuff we've got planned, and this crazy (boy-we-gotta-work-insane-hours-to-pull-it-off) thrice weekly schedule we're doing-- that ride is gonna come at you fast!

Again, this just supports the "risking old readers to gain new, younger readers" theory. Though, I don't know how many readers they'll pick up with 3 books a month all priced at $2.99 (first issue = $3.99)

"The first page [of BND] is a real shocker and it's done on purpose. It's a bit of a slap of reality to longtime readers[...]"

In the first bachelor issue, which comes out Wednesday, the "modern Peter Parker" shows off some of his new attitude, telling his mysteriously back from the dead and now thrice divorced best friend Harry Osborn "I'm too young to get married."

A reference to past continuity (which the creators keep telling old readers to forget) and a slap of reality to anyone that might have liked MJ/Pete...hrm. Obviously new readers wouldn't care as much, old readers would especially considering the last event in Pete's previous life.

so yeah, those are just some examples from several interviews the spidey crew + Joe Q have been spreading around the net [there's many]. Oddly enough, everyone [at marvel] seems in favor of it regardless of the problem it presents and how some of their own stories are altered/erased. So yes, BND (excluding OMD) is a giant jumping on point for new readers, while slightly insulting to old readers since now some old plot points won't be touched upon for a good amount of time.

Sources:

USA Today
NY Post
Dan Slott interview

*note* I didn't pick the best of examples, but hey, this was done in like 10 minutes. Cut me a break.

[Panther_Gunn]

Oddly enough, everyone [at marvel] seems in favor of it regardless of the problem it presents and how some of their own stories are altered/erased.

This could well be due to an edict from up on high by Joe Q (I *still* think I should have pummeled him with a chair at the Con I saw him at earlier this year), ordering them to "sell it like you own it", basically telling them to act like they're on board with the decision, unless they want some punitive repurcussions.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Mmmmmm...Skrully wheatcakes...Think about it.

Dana :thumbup:

[Ares_God_of_War]

 :lol: after reading the thread and seeing you being the last one posting Dana I really thought it was going to be a comment like that.