MUO...Doom?

[Verfall]

http://boards.cityofvillains.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=9615814&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

Fortunately, it's the kind of doom I can get behind!


*waits for Jeebs to sign in as DOOM and make jokes*

[MJB]

Doesn't seem that they have much evidence, mostly hearsay.

-MJB

[B A D]

In a way,it almost be better if it wasn't true . Having healthy competition for NCsoft is a good thing, IMO.

[Camma]

Its cuz of the new dual blades set.  They decided that MUO could never stand up to City of Dual Wielders.

[captainspud]

While I've been looking forward to MUO, I've been saying from the start that there's a huge conceptual hurdle with the project that would make it a very difficult game to produce. Namely, the way to deal with signature characters.

The options are basically:

1. Everybody can be Spider-man. So, there are 23,542 Spider-Mans running around the world.
2. Only one person can be Spider-man. Within an hour of the game launching, the only characters unclaimed are Syphonn and that guy from the Acolytes with the robot arms.
3. Signature characters are set pieces only, and characters play their own creations. The game is a ripoff of CoH with different window dressing.

I just don't see any way to solve this problem and still end up with a fun, original game. So while I've been hopeful the game would work out, I've kinda been expecting from the start that they'd run into problems that would render it unworkable.

[Midnight]

Vaporware.

[BlueBard]

I never expected to have a MUO game where I'd be able to play as Spider-Man.  I envisioned it as playing original characters in a Marvel Universe setting, where signature heroes and villains were basically window dressing and NPC's like they are in CoX.

Looking at the other options...

1. Everybody can be Spider-Man.
2. Only one person can be Spider-Man

Theoretically, if they use an instanced environment they could sort of have their cake and eat it too.  It would become "Anyone can be Spider-Man, but only one per instance" so that Spidey will never meet himself.

Although with the number of Spidey clones and Venom Symbiotes running around, I'm not sure why anyone would notice a problem ;)

I doubt it would go that way, as an instanced environment like that would be a major resource hog and a technical challenge.

Here's where the real problem will lie...

Marvel vigorously defends all of its' trademarks and copyrights.  They sort of have to, to some extent, although it's debatable how utterly rabid they have to be about it.

This means that whoever manages MUO will be obligated to spend a lot of time policing the copycat heroes.

Couple that with the fact that Marvel maintains a gigantamongous number of characters in its' stable.  Every mutant of the month character that's ever appeared in a Marvel comic book.  I forget the number, but it's huge.

Now, if someone can tell me how one could create an original character in the MU within the structure of an MMO without stepping on a single other Marvel character, I'd be obliged.

You can't run an MMO if the players' characters are constantly getting zapped by the admins.

Now, if the legal types can figure out a way to satisfy the balance, MUO can work.  It may mean that Marvel has to choose to loosen its' deathgrip on some of the lesser-known characters and concentrate on preventing Spider-Man and Wolverine rip-offs.

[Viking]

I don't particularly see a problem from a trademark/copyright standpoint.  In CoH, NCSoft needs to be responsible for policing against infringing characters, because they don't have a license from Marvel to allow players to create look-alike characters.

Theoretically, MUO should be granted that license from Marvel.  People making Spider-Man clones may be an immersion-breaking issue, but not so much of a legal one.

Here's what I would pitch for a concept if I were on the MUO development team:

1) Looking at the early days of CoH, it is a pretty safe bet that lots of players will want to play their favorite Marvel characters in MUO.  We need to find some way to allow players to do this, even if only in a limited fashion.

2) Clearly, the number of players will be greater than Marvel's stock of superheroes.  (At least, it better, or the game will be a bust.)  The game should preferably allow players to create their own heroes to add to the diversity of the game.

3) We could probably get away with allowing unrestricted access to playing known Marvel characters.  If as many people play this game as we hope for, it should be pretty easy for people to make a team of eight different known heroes.  If we wanted, we could impose a rule that no team can have more than one of a known Marvel hero.

4) Alternatively, we don't allow players to create, say, Spider-Man and other known heroes, but we do offer them unrestricted access to the powersets that one would use to create such known heroes.  Players can then get individual missions where, for example, Spider-Man contacts the hero and says that he's not able to patrol the streets due to breaking an arm, or having to fight in the Secret Wars, or some such.  But it's important that people see Spider-Man on the streets and fighting crime - would this hero with similar powers be willing to masquerade as Spider-Man until he can get back in action?  After which, the player's costume and playername change to those of Spider-Man for a set period of time.

[captainspud]

Ever play Star Wars Battlefront II? At certain points in the battle, if your side is doing well, you get the option to "take control of" a signature hero for a time-- Vader, Yoda, etc. So one possibility here would be that a signature hero "teams up" with your team in an instance, and a random member of your team is offered the option to control him instead of their own guy. It lets people play the signatures, but in a way that doesn't break their "uniqueness".

[GhostMachine]

I don't think a Marvel U MMO would be all that great. I'd rather see a DCU one.

A Marvel U MMO would likely have the Marvel Universe version of New York City as the heroes' home base, unless they're working for S.H.I.E.L.D. or are Eternals or Inhumans.

A DCU one would be better because you could be based out of Gotham City, Metropolis, Central City, Star City, etc.

[Verfall]

Talking to Mondy, he put it this way, "All I can see from this game is a million Wolverines, a dozen Hulks, a few Catgirls and one guy running around going 'I'm the Juggernaut thrall!' "

I can't see MUO being any more than COH 2. What's left of Cryptic taking all they learned from COH and working off that with a much larger budget. The DC one I can't see being much different. Everyone will want to be Superman or Batman or whomever. The one difference is they don't have the experience States and Co. have of at least getting the thing off the ground and starting a fanbase. All the fanbase in the world can't save you if your product isn't worth its price tag, i.e. Star Wars Galaxies currently.

My personal belief is DC and Marvel would be better served releasing more Ultimate Alliance type games. Sure they don't have the continuous revenue stream that is an MMO, but the games have proven to be good sellers. By consistently abusing the current "DL content" trend, they could release 4 or 5 characters to download over xbox live etc, and still make a decent amount of money.

[BlueBard]

My big attraction to playing in the Marvel U is the rich mythos and settings associated with it.  I can imagine fighting Morlocks in the sewers alongside Cyclops.  Sentinels attacking the Xavier Institute.  Teaming up with Spider-Man to face the Green Goblin.  Fighting Skrulls in outer space.  Tackling Doom in Latveria.

I don't have to be Spider-Man for that to be cool.

I don't like certain elements of the CoX Universe.  In CoX there is a very heavy emphasis on the occult and deep roots in Greek mythology.  I'd like something more sci-fi-ish.  Science and technology is not totally ignored, of course, but it doesn't feel as satisfying to me as I'd like.  The Marvel U has a much broader range of settings, IMHO.  I would be very pleased to play in Spidey's backyard, so to speak.

One thing Viking mentioned resonated with me, though.  I like the notion of power templates.  Sort of like AT's in CoX, but based on particular Marvel characters as templates with some ability to customize them in some way, as well as the costumes.

Want to play a hero like Iron-Man?  Start out with the Iron-Man template and get armor, flight, and energy blasts.  Rather be more like Spider-Man?  Take the Spidey template and get wicked cool acrobatic moves, super-senses, super jumping, and wall-crawling.

Want to expand the game with more options?  Add new hero templates over time.  Might be easier than the AT model in some ways.  Say you're playing off a Spider-Man template... instead of having a Scrapper character class with combinations of 6 different major powersets and 6 different minor powersets and having to balance all of that, you just have to make sure that the levolution (level-evolution) of the Spidey template and its' minor permutations works.  Instead of adding another Scrapper powerset (or a unique AT), add in a Wolverine template or a Daredevil template.

I have no illusion that game balance would be easy.  It's just that it would be a different model of character development.  In some ways it would be more limited, but if there are a lot of templates to choose from that might not be too bad.

Another idea would be the ability to unlock signature characters in some way, sort of like CoX did with the Kheldians at level 50.  (I'm not recommending that model, just offering it up as an example).  I don't know how that would work.

This is all just kibbitzing and wishful thinking... we have no idea what they have in mind and no control over the outcome whatsoever.

And yes, a DC MMO would be cool too for many of the same reasons.  A well-established and familiar mythos.

[Lionheart]

I don't like certain elements of the CoX Universe.  In CoX there is a very heavy emphasis on the occult and deep roots in Greek mythology.  I'd like something more sci-fi-ish.  Science and technology is not totally ignored, of course, but it doesn't feel as satisfying to me as I'd like.  The Marvel U has a much broader range of settings, IMHO.  I would be very pleased to play in Spidey's backyard, so to speak.

You just nailed part of my problem with the CoX universe. I love the character creation, I love the gameplay mechanics, but I did get tired of fighting occult-based minions and thugs all the time.

What would make CoX better is adding costumed villains into the mix. Not as AVs that require task forces, but villains you run into on the streets or regular missions. Villains that look as flashy as the heroes. Right now, at the mid-levels, even the bosses/lieutentants in missions look about the same as the minions, just with more HP and stronger.

The heroes have the right feel, but the villains are lacking.

[Alaric]

I don't like certain elements of the CoX Universe.  In CoX there is a very heavy emphasis on the occult and deep roots in Greek mythology.  I'd like something more sci-fi-ish.  Science and technology is not totally ignored, of course, but it doesn't feel as satisfying to me as I'd like.  The Marvel U has a much broader range of settings, IMHO.  I would be very pleased to play in Spidey's backyard, so to speak.

You just nailed part of my problem with the CoX universe. I love the character creation, I love the gameplay mechanics, but I did get tired of fighting occult-based minions and thugs all the time.

What would make CoX better is adding costumed villains into the mix. Not as AVs that require task forces, but villains you run into on the streets or regular missions. Villains that look as flashy as the heroes. Right now, at the mid-levels, even the bosses/lieutentants in missions look about the same as the minions, just with more HP and stronger.

The heroes have the right feel, but the villains are lacking.

Personally, I think CoH/CoV should have NPC version of palyer-character villains and heroes show up ias opponents n hero and villain missions. That would allow for lots of costumed opponents without the devs having to spend all their time creating them.

[El Condor]

A little more grist for the rumor mill here.  This one sounds even more ominous!  :o

EC

[Camma]

And where is the illustrious leader of Latveria when you need him?

Based on the discussion here and the lack of any progress in it, i suppose its not far off from what the MUO development team was trying to work out but couldnt.

I will say 'Meh' to you now.

[BlueBard]

A little more grist for the rumor mill here.  This one sounds even more ominous!  :o

EC

Oh well.  Still playing CoH, so it doesn't matter much in the scheme of things.

Seems like Microsoft doesn't have any luck in getting MMO's off the ground and Marvel doesn't have a lot of luck being translated into decent games (with certain notable exceptions).

[Verfall]

A little more grist for the rumor mill here.  This one sounds even more ominous!  :o

EC

Oh well.  Still playing CoH, so it doesn't matter much in the scheme of things.

Seems like Microsoft doesn't have any luck in getting MMO's off the ground and Marvel doesn't have a lot of luck being translated into decent games (with certain notable exceptions).

M$ is just scared of MMO's for some reason. Unless the concept is a guaranteed seller, which in the mmo world never really happens, M$ bides its time and money until the idea just dies.

I really think if Microsoft got behind a good concept we might finally see something to rival WoW. But since WoW has the market for fantasy themed MMO's, M$ either needs to come up with something that is as big of a market, or come up with ideas in the same genre that make WoW look weak.