Why the heck do people make gore flicks?

[Indigo]

*Shivers*

I was walking along our local video store and in the R (restricted) section I saw some dude trying to purchase Dead End 2: Wrong Turn.  He asked for it to be tested to ensure it's working in good condition and I saw in the first scene something real disturbing that really changed the way I see on such movies.

Dudes, psychology buffs, why the heck do flicks like this exist?  Truth be said, I thought my stomach was strong enough after I was able to endure Hostel, but then came The Hills Have Eyes and its sequel with its mutants and grotesque defile scene, I mean, what the hell?!  Seeing a mutant cannibal hack and slash is revolting enough, those twisted producers even thought of something more bizarre as a defile scene?!  Are they sick in the head or just want to sell those garbage scenes just because it does sells?!

My God, I hope the time comes that genres like this flop bad that struggling movie makers won't even attempt these gory flicks. :thumbdown:

Am I the only one who has a weak stomach on these?

[detourne_me]

whats the story with your avatar?

[Verfall]

It's called escapism.

Same reason people go to super hero movies, action movies, hell any movie really. You don't really need to explain why, it's just the whole "different strokes, different folks" idea in action. I don't like the things either, but I don't assume the people who go to them are psychotic or anything, just like I hope they don't judge me on one of my tastes.

Ironically, I don't like those movies yet I'll listen to a Cannibal Corpse album, heh.

[Outcast]

Indigo, i'm surprised that you don't have the stomach for these kinds of films. Given that your avatar is an image from the game Silent Hill 4, a popular horror survival game.  ^_^

Well generally, I think the reason why most people make movies first and foremost is to entertain people, and then try to earn money from it at the same time . While others make them for educational, documentary purposes and other worthwhile causes like raising fund for charities.

People have different tastes and interests. What may appeal to some, may not appeal to another.

I think there has always been a large group of people interested in these kinds of bizzare, occult,and horror stories. For them, it gives them a different kind of thrill, a new experience of being scared. Some, I think like to challenge themselves to see if they could handle the scare. While others  may just think the characters in such films are plain cool like vampires and werewolves. ^_^

So, there are different ways to scare people really. Just look at the show fear factor. And one of them, is to use gory tactics. In the case of fear factor, they make you either eat or come in contact with something that is generally disgusting for most people. Most people easily succumb to this kind of tactic, and so some movie makers,book writers, even game developers like those who did resident evil and silent hill have made it an integral part of their movie,book or game. :)

[ow_tiobe_sb]

Hollywood seems to have merged the horror and drama (a poor, overly generic term to describe a wide range of films) genres of late.  Practically every film seems to butcher the writing, decapitate the character development, and throw the entrails of a potentially good film onto an oxidised silver screen.

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and The Prat in the Hat

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I personally find the old psychological horror movies much scarier than the gore ones.  And gaging from the reactions of people that I know, many folks who like gore movies aren't really scared by them.  That isn't to say a movie can't do both.  Although I don't care to see them, I understand the Saw movies are like that.  But The Ring, which contained little in the actual way of gore, I found to be genuinely scarey,  because it played with things that you could imagine happening.  It caused you imagination to work against you.  Let's just say I'm glad my phone didn't ring the rest of the night.

These gore movies, for the most part, have no real imagination or fright value.

I think it's more that people watch them for the same reason that they in the days of the Romans used to go to watch prisoners get torn apart by wild animals, or folks in the Middle Ages used to gather to watch hangings as a form of entertainment.  People have always delighted in the pain and violent deaths of others, only now we can do it without anyone actually dying, and thus convince ourselves that we're somehow better for it.

[JKCarrier]

IPS has it right: Some people like to be scared, to experience that adrenaline rush in a safe way. No different than riding roller coasters, really (which I don't personally enjoy either). Not my cup of tea, but nothing wrong with it.

However, I will say that a lot of these films display an attitude towards women that I find a bit troubling. But I could say that about a lot of non-gory movies (and comics) as well.

[GogglesPizanno]

I'm gonna agree with the others here. This stuff goes in cycles, usually coinciding with the age of current generation of kids going to see these movies. Right now we are in a revival of the slasher/gore/grindhouse type of horror. Before this we had the Asian remake ghost stories with wet haired children that were more psychological (ala the Ring, or Grudge). Before that we had the M Night Shamalan non-gore suspense things. As people get tired of a certain type of horror (well any type of entertainment really), it has to get pushed farther and farther to keep their interest....until it finally reaches saturation point, runs its course and the cycle starts over again.

Poor box office showings of recent gore flicks like Hostel II sort of imply that this trend is waning again as people get tired of it and look to other stuff. So you'll find these movies will be relegated back to the Staright to Video shelves (like Wrong Turn II) and sought out by those niche fans that really like that sub-genre as more than just a passing fad. 20 years from now, we will probably see a revival of this kind of film in theaters again as the kids of today who watched them, turn into adults that look back and say "They dont make gross horror movies like I used to watch as a kid."

[Mr. Hamrick]

in addition to what's already been said here, which answer more from an audience perspective, I will add a few things here from an industry perspective.

• From an independent film standpoint, these films are relatively cheap and the biggest things in your budget that you need are the effects make-up, effects props, and the equipment.  You can usually find actors who are looking to do anything to add to their reel and locations can have be of a rather inexpensive range.
• As for talent, many actors will take roles in horror movies to gain experience, the credit to their name, or simply a paycheck.  A wonderful example of this is Johnny Depp doing "A Nightmare on Elm Street".
• From a studio perspective, they make money.  Because of the relatively lower budget, these films are a way to make quick money and make sure they are able to release your larger budget films.  They see the films as having a built in audience.  Even when they are direct to video release, and perhaps more so, they make the studios money for a relatively low out of pocket cost.
• With regards to the audience, many filmmakers perceive audiences as being desensitized to the simple slasher flicks that were churned out in the 1980s in mass quantity.  Their way of dealing with this is to get the desire psychological response via gore effects.  Many of these filmmakers are not really of a very talented lot but their films make money so they wind up employed.  However, you won't likely see these guys winning any Oscars or Golden Globe unless they expand beyond their schtick.  (Eli Roth comes to mind here.  And on that note, it bothers me that Roth is writing and directing an episode of "Heroes: Origins" but maybe it won't suck too bad.)  The sad part is that people validate these guys not because the movies are scary but because of the gross-out effects.
  
  •   I shouldn't grip two much, two good friends of mine do the special effects as part of their career.

[Indigo]

whats the story with your avatar?

Silent Hill 4, a big fan I must confess. :thumbup: Nothing gory on it I believe, only scary and disturbing in a sense like you're watching Sadako come out of your LCD monitor.

It's called escapism.

Well, I'm sure as hell don't want to manifest my escapism as a mutant cannibal eating/raping anything human.  My God, why do they always include grotesque defile scenes? <_<

Indigo, i'm surprised that you don't have the stomach for these kinds of films. Given that your avatar is an image from the game Silent Hill 4, a popular horror survival game.

Honestly speaking, I don't find anything gory, perhaps disturbing because of some nutjob cultists or disfigured monsters, but gore, I don't think so my friend.

Well generally, I think the reason why most people make movies first and foremost is to entertain people, and then try to earn money from it at the same time . While others make them for educational, documentary purposes and other worthwhile causes like raising fund for charities.

People have different tastes and interests. What may appeal to some, may not appeal to another.

I think there has always been a large group of people interested in these kinds of bizzare, occult,and horror stories. For them, it gives them a different kind of thrill, a new experience of being scared. Some, I think like to challenge themselves to see if they could handle the scare. While others  may just think the characters in such films are plain cool like vampires and werewolves.

So, there are different ways to scare people really. Just look at the show fear factor. And one of them, is to use gory tactics. In the case of fear factor, they make you either eat or come in contact with something that is generally disgusting for most people. Most people easily succumb to this kind of tactic, and so some movie makers,book writers, even game developers like those who did resident evil and silent hill have made it an integral part of their movie,book or game.

Yes, entertainment's the word.  I still can't grasp the context of some people considering such genres as their cup of tea. :wacko:

Hollywood seems to have merged the horror and drama (a poor, overly generic term to describe a wide range of films) genres of late.

I've always thought Hollywood influences our judgement on reality.  I used to think if I'm highly trained green beret, I can beat a whole Soviet/Vietcong unit, I blame Hollywood and John Rambo.

people like to be scared.

I think there's a line that draws between being scared and grossed out, but that's just subjective I guess.  What seems to be gross for me may seem simply be scary to some.

I personally find the old psychological horror movies much scarier than the gore ones.  And gaging from the reactions of people that I know, many folks who like gore movies aren't really scared by them.  That isn't to say a movie can't do both.  Although I don't care to see them, I understand the Saw movies are like that.  But The Ring, which contained little in the actual way of gore, I found to be genuinely scarey,  because it played with things that you could imagine happening.  It caused you imagination to work against you.  Let's just say I'm glad my phone didn't ring the rest of the night.

Ah yes, the good ol' days of horror.  Nothing can be more scarier than a figment of your imagination playing with your thoughts.  That's why I'd rather face a deformed Japanese girl in kimono than walking in an eerie town with disturbing voices whispering around you, it's enough to drive me insane because it kills you slowly on your sanity. :cool:

From an independent film standpoint, these films are relatively cheap and the biggest things in your budget that you need are the effects make-up, effects props, and the equipment.  You can usually find actors who are looking to do anything to add to their reel and locations can have be of a rather inexpensive range.
As for talent, many actors will take roles in horror movies to gain experience, the credit to their name, or simply a paycheck.  A wonderful example of this is Johnny Depp doing "A Nightmare on Elm Street".
From a studio perspective, they make money.  Because of the relatively lower budget, these films are a way to make quick money and make sure they are able to release your larger budget films.  They see the films as having a built in audience.  Even when they are direct to video release, and perhaps more so, they make the studios money for a relatively low out of pocket cost.
With regards to the audience, many filmmakers perceive audiences as being desensitized to the simple slasher flicks that were churned out in the 1980s in mass quantity.  Their way of dealing with this is to get the desire psychological response via gore effects.  Many of these filmmakers are not really of a very talented lot but their films make money so they wind up employed.  However, you won't likely see these guys winning any Oscars or Golden Globe unless they expand beyond their schtick.  (Eli Roth comes to mind here.  And on that note, it bothers me that Roth is writing and directing an episode of "Heroes: Origins" but maybe it won't suck too bad.)  The sad part is that people validate these guys not because the movies are scary but because of the gross-out effects.

We live now in sad times with our modern day movie industry :(

[Mr. Hamrick]

From an independent film standpoint, these films are relatively cheap and the biggest things in your budget that you need are the effects make-up, effects props, and the equipment.  You can usually find actors who are looking to do anything to add to their reel and locations can have be of a rather inexpensive range.
As for talent, many actors will take roles in horror movies to gain experience, the credit to their name, or simply a paycheck.  A wonderful example of this is Johnny Depp doing "A Nightmare on Elm Street".
From a studio perspective, they make money.  Because of the relatively lower budget, these films are a way to make quick money and make sure they are able to release your larger budget films.  They see the films as having a built in audience.  Even when they are direct to video release, and perhaps more so, they make the studios money for a relatively low out of pocket cost.
With regards to the audience, many filmmakers perceive audiences as being desensitized to the simple slasher flicks that were churned out in the 1980s in mass quantity.  Their way of dealing with this is to get the desire psychological response via gore effects.  Many of these filmmakers are not really of a very talented lot but their films make money so they wind up employed.  However, you won't likely see these guys winning any Oscars or Golden Globe unless they expand beyond their schtick.  (Eli Roth comes to mind here.  And on that note, it bothers me that Roth is writing and directing an episode of "Heroes: Origins" but maybe it won't suck too bad.)  The sad part is that people validate these guys not because the movies are scary but because of the gross-out effects.

We live now in sad times with our modern day movie industry :(

I absolutely agree for the most part and not just for the reasons implied here.  But it's a somewhat vicious cycle, though.  The studios will make it because it sells.  Many independent filmmakers will make films in the horror genre because they want practice or are trying to get their name out there.  Unfortunately, in the process of doing this, they often opt for the "going market trend".  I am trying to stay away from the "horror" genre but I'll freely admit that if a script came along that I liked, I would direct it.

[the_ultimate_evil]

so because a film type is not to your particular tastes, you hope that someday it will be non existent. yeah that's fair :rolleyes:

[crimsonquill]

I'm gonna agree with the others here. This stuff goes in cycles, usually coinciding with the age of current generation of kids going to see these movies. Right now we are in a revival of the slasher/gore/grindhouse type of horror. Before this we had the Asian remake ghost stories with wet haired children that were more psychological (ala the Ring, or Grudge). Before that we had the M Night Shamalan non-gore suspense things. As people get tired of a certain type of horror (well any type of entertainment really), it has to get pushed farther and farther to keep their interest....until it finally reaches saturation point, runs its course and the cycle starts over again.

I couldn't have said this any better myself... Gore/Splatter flicks do come in cycles because a new generation of directors/writers come along who remember their generation's favorite horror films. Before it was Evil Dead 2 (which was the goriest film I remember from my early teen years) and now the more infamous grindhouse/snuff movies which push realistic gore as far as possible. Most of this "shock horror" comes from New Line/Paramount/Dimension/Universal looking to retire the '80s monster squad (Freddy, Jason, Leatherface, Tallman, Chucky) and the writers scrambling to find the next generation of big bads. Since they can't develop a trademarkable monster in a short peroid of time they default to mutants/cannibals/serial killers which are two-dimensional cut outs placed into a script which might have been better with something far more intimidating. Big studios in Hollywood make films which flow with popular demand and smaller studios find their success by taking the risks to twist things in new directions or find that unqiue look for the next franchise villian. And the last memorable modern villian came from Wes Craven when he tried a new take on horror movies with the Scream Trilogy.

Indigo, my concern really falls on whoever made your video store chain policy is because they shouldn't be testing R-rated or Unrated videos in public view because a typical overprotective parent in your situation would have blown the roof off that store for allowing such material to be shown in full view of people standing in line or near the front (and trust me I worked in a video store so I know the speech I used to hear). You probably never would have picked up the movie to watch based on the DVD/VHS box artwork or the description on the back of said box but you happened to witness one of the more intense scenes of a modern snuff film which almost turned you off from horror films entirely.

And to answer your question... most horror fans are familar with the behind the scenes features and FX/Make-up techniques that the "veil of disbelief" allows us to see gore and shock at such instense levels that we might twitch a bit but know in the back of our minds that it's nothing more then props, puppets, and buckets of stuff made up in the makeup department. The casual viewer who doesn't prepare himself for what he is about to view might as well be watching those old "car accident" educational films they used to show in drivers education which required airsick bags to be placed on the desk next to the handout they gave you to fill out afterwards. And the splatter/gore films somehow tie into the teenage mindset of "Jackass" fans that a certain age group can't resist the urge to watch something no matter how bad the turnout might be (high speed car races with horrible multi-car accidents with drivers failing around like rag dolls, teenagers strapping high-explosives to their butt on camera for drunken amusement, etc).

- CrimsonQuill

[vamp]

I personally can't stand gore flicks, but like horror films when in the right mood. I perceive horror as something that can genuinely scare you. In my opinion movies that contain nothing but that, are as fake as the gore is.

I agree with some fellow poster that what makes a great horror film is when it can use your imagination as a weapon. Bringing your darkest nightmares to life. Films with too much gore stop this effect, much like when a game trying to be "hardcore" curses in an obscenely large  amount.

When it comes to movies I am a tough critic, and gore movies just don't cut it for me. I do realize though that many people (a large amount in my generation) love these films. But I personally want any form of entertainment i use to be able to provoke an emotion (doesn't matter which). To me though gore films, and other forms of media(games like GTA) actually negate this by causing an immunity to fear, and empathy. There is a lot of scientific research to prove this, but i would rather not go into that.

So when it comes down to it, I despise gore movies, but accept alot of the general population likes it.

EDIT: Crap just realize how educated I sounded. Must...maintain...idiocracy
*bites a Zombie*

[Indigo]

so because a film type is not to your particular tastes, you hope that someday it will be non existent. yeah that's fair

Just like North Korea, terrorism, cancer and AIDS, yes, but that's just me speaking, and I believe I wasn't trying to impose my beliefs, just having a talk with you guys, c'mon :cool: .  I'm not like Tony Stark, thinking of what's good for the people by playing god and suddenly deciding to blast the Hulk into space. I don't intend to to graduate summa special sauce laude in college, get a job in the UN or found an Illuminati and blueprint a campaign to eradicate all existing and upcoming gore flicks or blast those producers to an oppresive country/planet.  Be assured, no, I won't do that.

Indigo, my concern really falls on whoever made your video store chain policy is because they shouldn't be testing R-rated or Unrated videos in public view because a typical overprotective parent in your situation would have blown the roof off that store for allowing such material to be shown in full view of people standing in line or near the front (and trust me I worked in a video store so I know the speech I used to hear).

Nah, here where I'm located, you can test only for 3 minutes any videos you purchase to ensure its working quality.  The DVD player is placed in the far corner, somewhere inconspicuous from public viewing except for the ones who want to have it tested.  Altough the store sells licensed videos, it does have a penchant for selling some damaged stuffs so they don't mind having their videos tested.

You probably never would have picked up the movie to watch based on the DVD/VHS box artwork or the description on the back of said box but you happened to witness one of the more intense scenes of a modern snuff film which almost turned you off from horror films entirely.

Hmmm, come to think of it, you're right.  I just realized it's kinda shallow for me to shrug of on such films just because of I happen to see 3 minutes of it.  Truth be said, I guess I can withstand seeing hacking psychos, it's hacking and eating mutant cannibals that I can't.

And to answer your question... most horror fans are familar with the behind the scenes features and FX/Make-up techniques that the "veil of disbelief" allows us to see gore and shock at such instense levels that we might twitch a bit but know in the back of our minds that it's nothing more then props, puppets, and buckets of stuff made up in the makeup department.

You've said it man.  When me and my girlfriend watched Hostel, I honestly almost got sick, but my girlfriend's ok.  I asked her at the end of the movie if it disturbed her, and she simply shrugged "it's just plastic and ketchup, cry baby".  It's a slap on my face but I was proud I had the stomach for Hostel, only Hostel, mind you. 

[Jakew]

Uh oh ... I actually liked the Hills Have Eyes remake by Alexandre Aja  :unsure: I thought it was scary, well-filmed, well-acted and made you root for the hero. I hope that doesn't sound too psychopathic...  :wacko:

[tommyboy]

Theres three things really;
1.mass production of more-or-less permanent media to record entertainment on, and
2. what I call "the Ratchet Effect".And
3. the increased speed of modern life and cultural/fashionable "evolvement".
The Ratchet Effect means that once you have seen a gory film or five and not been grossed out/shocked/scared because repeated viewing desensitizes us, the makers of the next ones have to ratchet up the effects, to make the violence ever more brutal, outlandish, and to keep doing that.
The mass production etc part of the problem is that where once oral tales of shock and awe, or plays, were transitory experiences whose ratchets got reset with each new generation (more or less). But we can now see all the horror films (or Pr0n, or any other genre prone to the Ratchet effect) made before we were born, and have to go further and further to exceed them.
Add in the speed at which cultural trends or fashions now come and go, (which I think is increasing), and you get the situation where previously a "horror wave" would pass through popular culture once a generation, then once every decade, then every few years, and now (or soon) within a year.
The three conspire to ratchet up the levels of excess expected/required/demanded by the audience for each new iteration, and whilst I dont necessarily think we are in the Last Days of Rome, I think we will have to reach some sort of peak (or nadir, if you prefer) soon, because even when you have gone beyond Gone Too Far, there is only so many ways in which a human could be horrified. I don't think that imagination is actually infinite in scope (if it were, then why do we only have only seven stories after all these millenia?), so at some point it has to get to where the gore can't get gorier, the taste cannot get lower.

Or maybe I'm wrong and the remakes of Psycho and Texas Chainsaw and Halloween aren't more gory than the first versions and we simply get a new generation every 20 years or so repeating the same cycles of suspense through shock through excess, over and over.

But as a gentleman of the elderly persuasion it seems to me like there has been a cultural ratchet (and I'm not saying its a Bad Thing, though of course it may be) in terms of what society deems acceptable as entertainment, and what is deemed censor-worthy. This may be the last vestigies of hypocrytical Victoriania being swept away rather than something truly new, but I'm calling it as I see it.

Anyway, short answer?
They make money making gore flicks.
 

[Pyroclasm]

I wouldn't say the level of gore is getting any worse, necessarily, only the fx are getting better.  This isn't limited to the snuff films either.  The high quality of special effects has lead to an insurgence of Fantasy, Superhero, Science Fiction and similarly FX-laden genres.  Each genre has its audience, and everytime a certain kind of movie scores big, you can be sure it will be followed by similar movies.  In the case of snuff films, Saw was an apparent hit, and soon thereafter the straight to video market is glutted with similar torture movies.  The straight to video doesn't mean the genre is waning, only that the movie studio knows exactly how to maximize their profits.  You make the movie cheap, release it cheap, and watch the fans of the genre rent &/or buy the DVDs.
I like watching the torture movies, but only if it tries to offer something different.  I saw Hostel, and thought it was sufficiently freaky, but I would not see the sequel.  Mostly because the surprise of the movie is gone.  Watching a sequel to a movie that relies on the "big reveal" seems like a waste to me.  But bemoaning the fact that such torture movies are made is like me complaining that they make too many stupid comedies or too many "religious" movies under the guise of something secular.  There are people who like those things.  I don't and won't rent them.  Will that make any difference to the studios?  No.  Not one bit.  I just try to learn what to look out for and avoid them.
Oh, and perhaps you haven't noticed, but the majority of movies released in theatres nowadays is PG13, not R.  Since such imagery as torture/slaugther is purely "R" material, chances are they would not be released in the theatre and will show up on DVD instead.   Some filmakers also seem to figure if they're gonna shoot for an R, why not go for it wholeheartedly.  Oddly, they do get away with alot of violence in the G, PG & PG13 ratings, and I wonder what really makes the ratings board think that violence is ok but nudity/sexuality is a big no-no.  That however, is a discussion for a different thread.

[Mr. Hamrick]

And to answer your question... most horror fans are familar with the behind the scenes features and FX/Make-up techniques that the "veil of disbelief" allows us to see gore and shock at such instense levels that we might twitch a bit but know in the back of our minds that it's nothing more then props, puppets, and buckets of stuff made up in the makeup department.

You've said it man.  When me and my girlfriend watched Hostel, I honestly almost got sick, but my girlfriend's ok.  I asked her at the end of the movie if it disturbed her, and she simply shrugged "it's just plastic and ketchup, cry baby".  It's a slap on my face but I was proud I had the stomach for Hostel, only Hostel, mind you. 

My hat's off to your girlfriend!