Green Lantern (John Stewart) and Hawk Girl

Outcast · September 16, 2007, 01:23:28 AM

Just saw an old Justice League episode.

Was John Stewart also a part of in the past lives of Hawkman and Hawkgirl?

Does is it mean he is reincarnated as well? Destined to be with Hawkgirl?

I kinda feel sorry for Hawkman. :(

Added this link for reference only. Beware mushy song attached. :doh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO7k60Sj1f4&mode=related&search=

BentonGrey · September 16, 2007, 02:29:04 PM

Well, not in the comics, and not in my version either. Ha, I think that's one of the few mis-steps of JLU, not putting Hawkgirl and Man together.

Talavar · September 16, 2007, 03:30:59 PM

Quote from: BentonGrey on September 16, 2007, 02:29:04 PM
Well, not in the comics, and not in my version either. Ha, I think that's one of the few mis-steps of JLU, not putting Hawkgirl and Man together.

I disagree. I've never had strong feelings either way about Hawkman & Hawkgirl, but by having Hawkgirl not be with Hawkman they largely negated the whole supporting female sidekick aspect of the character, and made the character more of her own person.

Uncle Yuan · September 16, 2007, 04:55:41 PM

I haven't seen that episode, so I can't speak with certainty, but I suspect John went to Thanagar with Shayera at some point, rather than being a reincarnation episode.

And I agree with Benton - I like the fact that she is a strong independant character not bound to Hawkman.

BentonGrey · September 16, 2007, 05:32:10 PM

Haha, thanks Yuan, but I'm afraid that I'm not the one who said that, though I agree with half the sentiment. :lol: I do love that they made Hawkgirl so strong of a character, but Carter is one of my favorites, so that episode was hard on me. The two are meant to be together, heck, their names are Hawkman and Hawkgirl....there ya' go.

catwhowalksbyhimself · September 16, 2007, 05:34:06 PM

QuoteI haven't seen that episode, so I can't speak with certainty, but I suspect John went to Thanagar with Shayera at some point, rather than being a reincarnation episode.

Sorry, but those two episodes are definitely reincarnation episodes. You even see the bodies of the ancient Egyptian Hawkman and Hawkgirl, and the memory module which contains the story of the forbidden love between Stewart and Hawkgirl is thousands of years old.

Although it does leave open the possibility that the memory module is giving them the false memories of three similar people.

Uncle Yuan · September 17, 2007, 03:34:46 AM

Well, then, looks like I'm just plain wrong. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

Outcast · September 17, 2007, 08:50:27 AM

Quote from: BentonGrey on September 16, 2007, 05:32:10 PM
Haha, thanks Yuan, but I'm afraid that I'm not the one who said that, though I agree with half the sentiment. :lol: I do love that they made Hawkgirl so strong of a character, but Carter is one of my favorites, so that episode was hard on me. The two are meant to be together, heck, their names are Hawkman and Hawkgirl....there ya' go.

Yeah, pretty much a Hawkman fan myself. So, it was also hard for me that Hawkman didn't get the girl.

Quote from: BentonGrey on September 16, 2007, 02:29:04 PM
Well, not in the comics, and not in my version either. Ha, I think that's one of the few mis-steps of JLU, not putting Hawkgirl and Man together.

So it's not true in the comics? That's comforting to know. ^_^

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 16, 2007, 05:34:06 PM
QuoteI haven't seen that episode, so I can't speak with certainty, but I suspect John went to Thanagar with Shayera at some point, rather than being a reincarnation episode.

Sorry, but those two episodes are definitely reincarnation episodes. You even see the bodies of the ancient Egyptian Hawkman and Hawkgirl, and the memory module which contains the story of the forbidden love between Stewart and Hawkgirl is thousands of years old.

Although it does leave open the possibility that the memory module is giving them the false memories of three similar people.

Yes, that was what i was afraid of. But i thought it was the love between Hawkman and Hawkgirl that made them always find each other. A thousand year old love. A destiny. A love so strong that it could surpass time. On the other hand,if Stewart was also there. Was it a love triangle then that always repeated itself? A tragic destiny for Hawkman to relive over and over? In the episode,it kinda reminds me of the hit movie the Mummy/the Mummy Returns with Brendon Fraser wherein the Pharoah's wife also had a lover.

Quote from: Talavar on September 16, 2007, 03:30:59 PM
I disagree. I've never had strong feelings either way about Hawkman & Hawkgirl, but by having Hawkgirl not be with Hawkman they largely negated the whole supporting female sidekick aspect of the character, and made the character more of her own person.

Ok.It's good to be her own person. But i can't help but think of Hawkman when i see Hawkgirl. Must be the costume. :P I think a different costume like what Nightwing(Robin)/Winter Soldier(Bucky) did would be nice.

BentonGrey · September 17, 2007, 09:05:34 AM

Don't take too much comfort from this not being in the comics, the continuity for Hawkman is a disaster. That's why I'm taking him back to basics in the DCUG.

Panther_Gunn · September 17, 2007, 02:38:04 PM

Quote from: BentonGrey on September 17, 2007, 09:05:34 AM
Don't take too much comfort from this not being in the comics, the continuity for Hawkman is a disaster. That's why I'm taking him back to basics in the DCUG.

Yeah, I think the Hawks' continuity has been monkeyed with more than even Spidey's. The fact that they *directly* reference this in Zero Hour just points out even they knew it was too screwed up by that point.

BentonGrey · September 17, 2007, 02:55:41 PM

Darn it, I really want someone to take on those Thanagarian maps in my request thread, cause I am excited about my storyline for the Hawks! This discussion is just making me itch. ;)

catwhowalksbyhimself · September 17, 2007, 05:11:03 PM

Quote
Ok.It's good to be her own person. But i can't help but think of Hawkman when i see Hawkgirl. Must be the costume. tongue I think a different costume like what Nightwing(Robin)/Winter Soldier(Bucky) did would be nice.

umm--by that episode we are talking about, she IS wearing a completely different costume.

BentonGrey · September 17, 2007, 05:57:15 PM

Haha, no matter what you do with her, she's still a woman with giant wings.........it's sorta' hard to not connect her to the man with giant wings......

catwhowalksbyhimself · September 17, 2007, 06:24:56 PM

Zauriel? :P

BentonGrey · September 17, 2007, 06:46:48 PM

Haha, good point, I always forget about Hawkman Mk.2. ;)

Outcast · September 17, 2007, 06:56:17 PM

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 17, 2007, 05:11:03 PM
umm--by that episode we are talking about, she IS wearing a completely different costume.

Was she? Only caught the ending of that episode. She didn't have her mask on. Didn't notice she had a new costume. Maybe got sidetracked by that youtube video. :P

Kommando · September 17, 2007, 11:42:34 PM

The DCAU take is its own continuity, and IMO a very good one. The romance aspect between Shayera and John Stewart comes from Justice League, when it was just the founding members. Hawkman wasn't even introduced as a character (nor possibly considered) at the time. So it had to be worked into the existing continuity, which ends up with Katar Hol (Carter Hall) being a delusional stalker, though a well meaning one. I personally like how throughout JL and JLU, that Shayera ended up being the most fleshed out and developed character. Hawkman fans have a gazillion years of comics to fawn over him, so I think Shayera can have her 5 years in the spotlight as the main Hawk-person in the animated continuity. DCAU had a nice 14 year run, which was amazing for a cartoon universe. Its day is over, and I enjoyed the ride, probably more than the comics themselves.

detourne_me · September 20, 2007, 09:05:27 PM

anyone notice the last panel in the JLA wedding special?

BentonGrey · September 20, 2007, 09:41:33 PM

Quote from: Kommando on September 17, 2007, 11:42:34 PM
The DCAU take is its own continuity, and IMO a very good one. The romance aspect between Shayera and John Stewart comes from Justice League, when it was just the founding members. Hawkman wasn't even introduced as a character (nor possibly considered) at the time. So it had to be worked into the existing continuity, which ends up with Katar Hol (Carter Hall) being a delusional stalker, though a well meaning one. I personally like how throughout JL and JLU, that Shayera ended up being the most fleshed out and developed character. Hawkman fans have a gazillion years of comics to fawn over him, so I think Shayera can have her 5 years in the spotlight as the main Hawk-person in the animated continuity. DCAU had a nice 14 year run, which was amazing for a cartoon universe. Its day is over, and I enjoyed the ride, probably more than the comics themselves.

I very much agree about the strength of her character. She certainly deserved a day in the sun, I just wish I could have my cake and eat it too. ;) If I ruled the world, DCAU would NEVER end, ha, I really love their continuity, and I definitely think they are, on the whole, head and shoulders above the comics from which they sprang.

Talavar · September 21, 2007, 07:48:18 AM

Quote from: detourne_me on September 20, 2007, 09:05:27 PM
anyone notice the last panel in the JLA wedding special?

I wondered about that myself - John Stewart & Hawkgirl together in the comics perhaps? Dwayne McDuffie is writing JLA now, so maybe he wants to carry that aspect over from the cartoon.

the_ultimate_evil · September 21, 2007, 09:44:38 AM

i'm of the camp that the toon hawkgirl is the only hawkgirl. i couldnt care less about her before but the characterisation made her one of my firm dc favs. and its better she ends up with gl same was bats and ww should end up together. predictable relationships in comics are extremely boring.