NBC's _Heroes_

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I think the ratings drop is mostly because of the long hiatus.  Even I almost forgot about it.  The last time they at least kept rerunning episodes, this time, they kept putting other things in it's place, most of them particularly uninteresting.

In fact, I went several weeks without even remembering the show existed.  If it wasn't for a comment posted to this site, I probably would have forgotten completely and missed the new episode myself.  I don't really watch NBC much otherwise.

Every review I've seen of the episode was very good, and most people here liked it, so I don't think it was that.

[JeyNyce]

Linderman reminds me too much of Magneto.  Anybody else notice this?

[Conduit]

I don't see that at all.  Linderman never said anything about discrimination against specials.  Which really isn't an issue in Heroes since the public doesn't know they exist.

He does, however, remind me a lot of Ozymandius from Watchmen.

[GrizzlyBearTalon]

Linderman reminds me too much of Magneto.  Anybody else notice this?

Magneto is in many ways an archetype of a delusional hero/villain in that the person is committing all these wrong acts but believes that what he is doing is for the betterment of his people or the world. Linderman seems very much to be just like this and I think that is probably & hopefully where the similarities end. As long as his past doesn't involve Nazis I think it should be fine. This is also the setup of Ozymandius (whom I think Linderman is way more close to than Mags) in Watchmen and many other characters that exist. Even in an extreme view Doctor Doom falls in this category as he reasons that he should rule the world simply because he is the simply most capable and worthy person of doing so thus the world would be a better place under his authority.

Hmm... just how big is Linderman's actual ego? Perhaps he will start talking in third person! heh

       Cross-cultural comparisons of the world's myths have uncovered striking similarities in themes, structures, images, and characters; "in the types of phenomena they seek to explain and the types of questions they address" ("Myth" 284).  These cross-cultural similarities raise provocative questions: Do certain universal myths, or "monomyths," organize and connect the mythic narratives and their literary forms across different cultures, past and present, around the world?   Why do these similarities occur?  Do all human beings inherit a common, if unconscious, set of mythic figures, forces, patterns, implications, and structures from our common ancestors?

I think we have a sort of monomyth thing going on in geek media (scifi, fantasy, comics, etc.) in that certain themes and ideas are always showing up. Yes there are variations and new interpretations but basically there are no truly original ideas out there just new & unique ways to represent or combine them. The individual elements have already been shown in other forms or even classic works. After all comics with their superheroes and such are simply a modern version of the old hero stories & tales of people like Hercules, Pecos Bill, Aladdin, Sampson, The Monkey King, Thor, etc.

In some cases it is simply pure coincidence between things & themes of the show in others tributes & nods to other media. It is hard to know for sure without talking to the creator & writers themselves.

[Conduit]

[spoiler]
Re: The theory about Sylar impersonating Nathan in the future.

In one of the preview clips for the next episode, Hiro mentions that HRG is hiding Candace.  Therefore Sylar hasn't acquired her powers.  [/spoiler]

[Protomorph]

I think that Mrs Petrelli could be Linderman's sister. As interested in future events as he is, it would make sense to have a connection to it all.

[thalaw2]

This latest episode confirmed what I said earlier...thus far there is no evidence to show that any of the specials are born from non special parents.

[Mr. Hamrick]

This latest episode confirmed what I said earlier...thus far there is no evidence to show that any of the specials are born from non special parents.

hold on, though.  Jessica/Nikki, D.L. and Parkman  . . . not to mention Ted and Hannah all have no indication that they are born of "special parents". 

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

No, I think plenty of specials are born from non-specials--but having one special parent makes it extremely like that you will be, and having two makes it certain,

[bredon7777]

Just rewatched my tape...

[spoiler]

Anyone else dissapointed that Eden's sacrifice turned out to be in vain? :( [/spoiler]

[Conduit]

[spoiler]

Just rewatched my tape...

Anyone else dissapointed that Eden's sacrifice turned out to be in vain? :(

Huh?  If you're referring to Sylar's weird voice, the writers said in an interview that the audio guys did that simply so it would sound cool.  You'll notice that Isaac did not obey him.
[/spoiler]

[bredon7777]

[spoiler]

Just rewatched my tape...

Anyone else dissapointed that Eden's sacrifice turned out to be in vain? :(

Huh?  If you're referring to Sylar's weird voice, the writers said in an interview that the audio guys did that simply so it would sound cool.  You'll notice that Isaac did not obey him.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
Really? Cause its the exact same echoing theyve used when Eden used her power, and when Peter used it on Issac.

Also, Issac did obey him- Sylar said "Show me", and Issac looked at an empty easel, and Sylar thought he was looking at the gun in front of it, and flicked it away. Issac then said "It's too late. Its already gone." Telling him, since he could no longer show him.

Then Sylar says "Why don't you tell me all about it then?" but he says it in a normal voice.

[/spoiler]

[Conduit]

[spoiler]

Just rewatched my tape...

Anyone else dissapointed that Eden's sacrifice turned out to be in vain? :(

Huh?  If you're referring to Sylar's weird voice, the writers said in an interview that the audio guys did that simply so it would sound cool.  You'll notice that Isaac did not obey him.

Really? Cause its the exact same echoing theyve used when Eden used her power, and when Peter used it on Issac.

Also, Issac did obey him- Sylar said "Show me", and Issac looked at an empty easel, and Sylar thought he was looking at the gun in front of it, and flicked it away. Issac then said "It's too late. Its already gone." Telling him, since he could no longer show him.

Then Sylar says "Why don't you tell me all about it then?" but he says it in a normal voice.

Peter didn't use it on Isaac.  And it's not exactly the same as Eden's voice sound effect.  In fact, it's substantially different.  There's a discussion of it on this page, in the notes section, with sound samples of Peter's echoing voice (which is the same as Sylar's) and Eden's.

If Sylar has Eden's power and didn't use it when he told Isaac to tell him about it (not to mention countless other times), then he's dumber than Mohinder.  And is there any reason to believe that Isaac WASN'T looking at the gun?  Because I thought that that was what he was doing.

But really, the audio guys should stop doing that.  It adds only marginally to the scene, and it confuses viewers who don't read about the show on the internet.
[/spoiler]

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

[spoiler]It did confuse me too, but it's already been well established by the writers that Sylar definitely does NOT have Eden's powers.  Using that sound effect was a very bad idea.[/spoiler]

[Raptor]

[spoiler]It did confuse me too, but it's already been well established by the writers that Sylar definitely does NOT have Eden's powers.  Using that sound effect was a very bad idea.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I don't think so.  I always interpreted that voice as another power that Sylar picked up somewhere else along the way and he uses it whenever he wants to freak someone out and show himself as even more powerful.  Sylar is attempting to become a god by collecting all these powers, so it would make sense for him to sound like one.[/spoiler]

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Yes, but that is just too confusing for the audience.  Read the comments here and elsewhere.  A LOT of people, including me, were VERY confused by that.

[Jakew]

With all the Heroes/Watchmen controversery still pretty fresh, I was looking at the synopsis for an upcoming episode which sounds really similar to Days of Future Past (classic X-Men storyline).

What does everyone think of this? Homage or a few desperate scriptwriters pillaging the best ideas from Alan Moore, Chris Claremont, et al?

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Logical end to the current storyline, actually.

Even if it's similar, it's the only outcome that makes sense.

Woo hoo!  Intense!  And the most comic book-like of all the episodes.  Congrats to whoever it was that predicted that

[spoiler]President Nathan is really Sylar.  Nice one![/spoiler]

This episode answers a LOT of questions.

Now, one very important one remains.

How do you stop an exploding man?

[Talavar]

Interesting episode...

[spoiler]
even though it's entirely inconsequential, since Hiro ends up going back in time to make more changes.  Still, we get some cool moments, like Hiro & Peter throwing down with homeland security agents.  We get some more evidence about certain powers as well, like the survivability of going nuclear for the person in question, illusion girl's ability fooling cameras, and the Haitian being a power dampener for sure, not just an psychic who shuts down people's minds.
[/spoiler]

[GhostMachine]

Anyone else catch the plot hole the size of Cleveland in the episode?

And no, I'm not going to say what it is.

[Zapow]

Logical end to the current storyline, actually.

Even if it's similar, it's the only outcome that makes sense.

Woo hoo!  Intense!  And the most comic book-like of all the episodes.  Congrats to whoever it was that predicted that

[spoiler]President Nathan is really Sylar.  Nice one![/spoiler]

This episode answers a LOT of questions.

Now, one very important one remains.

How do you stop an exploding man?

Woo hoo! I called it!

[JeyNyce]

With all the Heroes/Watchmen controversery still pretty fresh, I was looking at the synopsis for an upcoming episode which sounds really similar to Days of Future Past (classic X-Men storyline).

What does everyone think of this? Homage or a few desperate scriptwriters pillaging the best ideas from Alan Moore, Chris Claremont, et al?

After watching tonight episode I think it was a lot of homage to comic fans.  I saw a lot of X-men/ Watchmen moments.

[Sword]

And now, some heavily disjointed thoughts on tonight's episode, that most of those who saw will agree with

1)Parkman? You Traitor!
2)Same old Mohindar, Big New Job
3) Those two hooked up? Would never have guessed.
4)Of course Claire's alive...for how long?
5)Ok, that...I called that. Dang you Sylar!
6)Mohindar=Biggest hero of all?
7) Who in the name of Jeph Loeb did sylar kill to get that power?  Same question on Peter's side, but who did he copy?
8) Go Hiro! You Did It!
9)Ok, sure cheerleader saved, Sylar can't regenerate. But why not Save Ted? Is there going to be a brawl with Ted Sylar and Peter that "forces" Peter to go nuclear?

[Conduit]

Wow.  Just wow.  That was one of, if not the best episode yet.

[spoiler]
It's great that we go to learn more about future Hiro.  It's understandable how he changed so much, and yet you can still see some of the old Hiro in him.  I'm not sure which Hiro I prefer, but I don't want Ando to die.

HRG hides DL and Candace and they both end up as Sylar food?  He's really lost his touch over the years.

Mohinder, meanwhile, got a smidgen of his intelligence back.  He actually did some good and quite possibly prevented a rift in the spacetime continuum.  Though it's hilarious to see him get duped by Sylar AGAIN.

Speaking of which, I'm very dissapointed in the writers.  They stated in no uncertain terms in an interview that Candace was an illusionist.  They compared her to Mastermind.  They should have realized that Sylar would need to fool cameras and large crowds with her abilities and made it clear she projected holograms or something.  That was the only dissapointing part of that storyline, however.  The build up and reveal were extremely well done.

And that scene where Sylar/Nathan's speech was shown over the fight at homeland security?  Awesome, 'nuf said.
[/spoiler]

[Alaric]

[spoiler]

Speaking of which, I'm very dissapointed in the writers.  They stated in no uncertain terms in an interview that Candace was an illusionist.  They compared her to Mastermind.  They should have realized that Sylar would need to fool cameras and large crowds with her abilities and made it clear she projected holograms or something.  That was the only dissapointing part of that storyline, however.  The build up and reveal were extremely well done.

Illusions don't automatically mean mental illusions. If someone has the power to, for example, manipulate light to create images, those images are still illusions.[/spoiler]

[The Hitman]

Great ep, and now to answer a question:

7) Who in the name of Jeph Loeb did sylar kill to get that power?  Same question on Peter's side, but who did he copy?

Think back to the third or fourth episode, the one who introduced Matt the Psychic. The FBI's investigating a double murder, the parents of Molly Walker. One of their heads were cut open and
[spoiler]
frozen, which means either one of her parents had cryokinesis, or he got that power earlier. Also, this is proof positive that Sylar has frost powers, and not just "slowing- down- molecules- with- telekinesis" powers. WOOT!
[/spoiler]

Pete must have met Clair's mom sometime during the previous 5 years, or has finally mastered Ted's power.

[GhostMachine]

Regarding the episode and the preview for next episode:

[spoiler]Unless Peter meets Ted in the next episode or two, I don't see how he can be the bomb.

The plothole the size of Cleveland I mentioned? Sylar being alive in the future. Future Hiro said he stabbed Sylar and conjectured that since they didn't save Claire, it must've been due to Sylar having her regenerating powers (since they didn't know at the time that Claire was still alive). If Sylar didn't have Claire's power, how did he survive? Unless they do more scenes in that future and explain it or reveal it one of the graphic novels (which is a bad idea, since not everyone reads them), its a plothole.

Molly being the one person who can stop Sylar? Ummm....no. Unless her power is the ability to shut down others' powers or some sort of psychic ability that would let her control Sylar's mind....or erase it....I don't think so. And frankly, it would be a cop-out if Sylar was defeated by a character who had only appeared IN ONE FREAKIN' EPISODE and was an afterthought between then and now.[/spoiler]

My theory about how Sylar gets defeated:

[spoiler]1. He runs into Peter again, but since he doesn't have the drop on him this time, Peter fights back. There are any number of ways that Peter could kill Sylar, even turning his own telekinetic can (head) opener trick on him or even using Hiro's power to freeze time, grab Sylar and fly up a few thousand feet in the air, let him go and restart time (remember: Hiro was able to pick up a little girl and move her out of the way of a speeding vehicle once). Its too bad Peter hasn't met Claire's mom, because I'd really love to see him roast Sylar alive.

2. He tries to use his power to kill Hiro, but Andro jumps in the way, trying to sacrifice himself to save Hiro. Hiro realizes what's happening, freezes time, then uses the sword on Sylar while time is still frozen.

3. In a major twist, Nathan sacrifices himself to save Peter (or Claire) by doing what I mentioned in #1, but without the time freeze; ie, grabbing Sylar, flying up high, and dropping him.

4. In a severe major twist, Sylar gets shot in the back of the head while fighting someone or trying to kill them.....by Mohinder. (Yeah, right!)

I realize there's little chance of #3 or 4 happening.[/spoiler]

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Regarding the episode and the preview for next episode:

[spoiler]Unless Peter meets Ted in the next episode or two, I don't see how he can be the bomb.

The plothole the size of Cleveland I mentioned? Sylar being alive in the future. Future Hiro said he stabbed Sylar and conjectured that since they didn't save Claire, it must've been due to Sylar having her regenerating powers (since they didn't know at the time that Claire was still alive). If Sylar didn't have Claire's power, how did he survive? Unless they do more scenes in that future and explain it or reveal it one of the graphic novels (which is a bad idea, since not everyone reads them), its a plothole.

Molly being the one person who can stop Sylar? Ummm....no. Unless her power is the ability to shut down others' powers or some sort of psychic ability that would let her control Sylar's mind....or erase it....I don't think so. And frankly, it would be a cop-out if Sylar was defeated by a character who had only appeared IN ONE FREAKIN' EPISODE and was an afterthought between then and now.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Not a plot hole.  Remember, future Hiro see's Hiro and basically says, what are you doing here, you were supposed to stab Sylar.  Hiro hasn't and presumably in this timeline, wasn't going to stab Sylar.  The only reason why he's going to now is that his future self and the drawing are telling him to.  We also don't know what Molly's power is, but it must be a doozy.  Remember, Hiro specifically asked HRG for her help in his rescue attempt.  And about Ted--he's headed to New York as of last episode, so it's very likely that two will run into each other.[/spoiler]

My theory about how Sylar gets defeated:

[spoiler]1. He runs into Peter again, but since he doesn't have the drop on him this time, Peter fights back. There are any number of ways that Peter could kill Sylar, even turning his own telekinetic can (head) opener trick on him or even using Hiro's power to freeze time, grab Sylar and fly up a few thousand feet in the air, let him go and restart time (remember: Hiro was able to pick up a little girl and move her out of the way of a speeding vehicle once). Its too bad Peter hasn't met Claire's mom, because I'd really love to see him roast Sylar alive.

2. He tries to use his power to kill Hiro, but Andro jumps in the way, trying to sacrifice himself to save Hiro. Hiro realizes what's happening, freezes time, then uses the sword on Sylar while time is still frozen.

3. In a major twist, Nathan sacrifices himself to save Peter (or Claire) by doing what I mentioned in #1, but without the time freeze; ie, grabbing Sylar, flying up high, and dropping him.

4. In a severe major twist, Sylar gets shot in the back of the head while fighting someone or trying to kill them.....by Mohinder. (Yeah, right!)

I realize there's little chance of #3 or 4 happening.[/spoiler]

Sorry, but

[spoiler]Sylar WILL NOT be defeated.  As a matter of fact, he's been upgraded to main cast member for Season 2.[/spoiler]

[Talavar]

When did Sylar use freezing power in this episode?  I must have missed it.  And really, there are lots of ways to defeat Sylar, particularly for someone who can stop time.  I mean, if you can stop time, you could basically do anything to him: stab him in every vital organ alphabetically, move him so his head will be under the tire of a moving bus, do a little surgery and put a live grenade in his chest cavity - really, the possibilities are endless.  Stopping time is even worse than super-speed as a way to give writers nightmares.

That news...[spoiler] of Sylar not getting defeated kind of bugs me.  I hope next season isn't just a rehash of this one, trying to stop Sylar [/spoiler]

[starlock]

ok so we kow what "save the cheerleader save the world" means

But like someone said in this thread how do you stop peter from exploding?
could he try and use a cold power from sylar?
if peter can survive the explosion ,why not just fly away far enough to do no damage to his surroundings? i am betting its because he will have to fight sylar-but if hiro succeds i still think peter will explode...hmmmmm

What did isac mean in the previous episode about sylar dying,it was a little vauge any ideas?